Optimizing the Flame Lash [Archive] - Wizards Community

Optimizing the Flame Lash [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lycanthromancer
03-21-08, 12:23 PM First of all, let's assume that, as RAW states, you can use feats and abilities on the Flame Lash as if it were all of the following: A.) a ranged weapon, B.) a psi-like ability, and C.) a whip.

We can also assume that the Flame Lash works exactly like a whip, except for the above. It makes things much easier.

Furthermore, the ML of the Flame Lash is that of your character level (ie, a 10th level character would have a ML of 10).

How would you optimize your Flame Lash? You can use any and all splatbooks, the crunchier the better.

Me, I think I'd do a psywar19/pyro1, focusing on trip attacks, but I'm not familiar with all of the cool ranged stuff outside of core, so I'm not sure what potential lies in the splatbooks.

Any awesome ideas?
Meikle_641
03-21-08, 01:46 PM It seems to me that some of the best feat you could have for this are Ranged Weapon Specialization (Slashing) and Ranged Weapon Mastery...Unfortunately, these require Weapon Spec. Otherwise, Rang Wep Spec is easy to get. +2/+2 to all ranged weapons that deal slashing.
PsionMage
03-21-08, 01:54 PM While I definitely agree that you can treat it as a whip and a psi-like ability, I don't think you can treat it as a ranged weapon.

Checking the SRD (I'm AFB), it only states that it deals damage on a successful ranged touch attack. Technically, it's only inferred that you should use the 'whip' rules (which is that it's a melee weapon that still provokes as a ranged weapon), but nothing infers that if you can make a ranged touch attack with it, it must be a ranged weapon. If that were so, I'd like to get a wand of <ray spell> enchanted with Distance or maybe Flaming and maybe a few other cool add-ons. I know that sounds kind of rediculous, but a ranged touch attack does not imply ranged weapon classification.

Assuming I'm wrong and that it IS a ranged weapon, I'd definitely go for Rapid shot, Improved Rapid Shot, paired with the two weapon fighting tree. Multishot would be an interesting addition as well except it specifically states: "arrow"

Pair it with a one-handed spiked chain (just size it smaller or take the monkey grip feat to not lose damage [both take -2 to hit]) and get combat reflexes to use that nice Dex score. Are there any other reach weapons that are finessable and allow touch attacks? That would be much better

Note: You're already giving up THF with the whip... but I suppose with the spiked chain you could go from one to the other easy enough.
Lycanthromancer
03-21-08, 01:58 PM Maybe I should've mentioned that it deals fire damage, rather than slashing (like a whip). But then, the Flame Lash ability says that anyway, so maybe I shouldn't bother? :P

Also, the kusari-gama in the DMG is the one-handed equivalent of a spiked chain. It's under the Asian Weapons category on page 145.
CrimsonDeath
03-21-08, 05:16 PM While I definitely agree that you can treat it as a whip and a psi-like ability, I don't think you can treat it as a ranged weapon.

Checking the SRD (I'm AFB), it only states that it deals damage on a successful ranged touch attack. Technically, it's only inferred that you should use the 'whip' rules (which is that it's a melee weapon that still provokes as a ranged weapon), but nothing infers that if you can make a ranged touch attack with it, it must be a ranged weapon. If that were so, I'd like to get a wand of <ray spell> enchanted with Distance or maybe Flaming and maybe a few other cool add-ons. I know that sounds kind of rediculous, but a ranged touch attack does not imply ranged weapon classification.
If a ranged weapon isn't "a weapon with which you make ranged attacks", then what is a ranged weapon?

And you can't put enchantments on a wand because they're not weapons themselves. They're spell-trigger magic items that sometimes duplicate spells with weaponlike effects.

Also... infer (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infer)? I think maybe you meant imply (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/imply).

Pair it with a one-handed spiked chain (just size it smaller or take the monkey grip feat to not lose damage [both take -2 to hit]) and get combat reflexes to use that nice Dex score. Are there any other reach weapons that are finessable and allow touch attacks? That would be much better
You can't use the spiked chain like that, since you don't get reach from reach weapons that are sized too small for you. Lycanthromancer's right about the Kusari-gama, except that it's actually a light weapon, not one-handed.

Note: You're already giving up THF with the whip... but I suppose with the spiked chain you could go from one to the other easy enough.
A whip is classified as a one-handed melee weapon, so you can actually wield it two-handed. Which brings me to my contribution: Power Attack.
Belabras
03-21-08, 05:26 PM Without getting into the crazy logic it takes to even think about the Flame Lash (4e better fix the *******ed thing)

How I would optimize the Lash:
1 level dip in Exotic Weapon Master to get the trick that lets you use it in melee without provoking AoOs.
A few levels in Swashbuckler for the Precise Strike damage.
Lots of levels of Swordsage or Warblade so you can use maneuvers with the Lash.
TheKeyofE
03-21-08, 07:14 PM Can you use Weapon Afire with your lash? I can't seen any reason why not.

Maybe I'm just slow and everyone else has already realized this, but no one mentioned it so I thought I'd throw it out.
Ecalsneerg
03-22-08, 07:59 AM Can you use Weapon Afire with your lash? I can't seen any reason why not.

Maybe I'm just slow and everyone else has already realized this, but no one mentioned it so I thought I'd throw it out.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can.
Malcaor
03-22-08, 09:20 AM Is the flame lash a one handed weapon? It seems like it judging by the picture in the book. This could be powerful with a creature that has multiple arms and multiattack.

Unless there's something I missed, Weapon Afire does work with the lash.
awaken_D_M_golem
03-22-08, 02:57 PM Without getting into the crazy logic it takes to even think about the Flame Lash (4e better fix the *******ed thing)

Nope. Even if the mythical *Lord of Procrastination* is working on 4th Ed, they still won't be able to ~debug the whole thing. Think of the game as a computer program, without explicit functions, with an ever expanding rule-set (lines of code), with no financial incentive to RAW-buggery every single rule. Think of Microsoft; even Bill Gates has conceded they can't totally debug Windows.
Ergo ... :evillaugh

Is the flame lash a one handed weapon?
I wonder what the Titan Bloodline would do to the Flame Lash?
Stick an Extend Spell-like feat on it. Then Expand it. Then ... something ...
Make it reeaaallll long.
One hand it via Titan BL.
I recall Drunken Master being able to use say a ~100' section of chain as an improvised weapon.
This wouldn't be improvised.

Obviously unfinished.
Malcaor
03-22-08, 11:20 PM Is there a way to possibly change the damage type of the whip, like from fire to sonic?
Lycanthromancer
03-22-08, 11:39 PM Yeah, it's a class variant. You have pyrokineticist (fire), cryokineticist (cold), and so on.

One of them is a sonic variant, in The Mind's Eye (I think).
InkBlot
03-23-08, 12:19 AM The Cryokineticist is a psionic prestige class from Frostburn. It's similar to the Pyrokineticist, but it's not just a pyro who deals cold damage instead. The big difference is that the Cryokineticist sucks really really hard.

Like the Pyrokineticist, the Cryokineticist gets 3/4 BAB, a d8 hit die, and 2 skill points per level.

Like the Pyrokineticist, Cryokineticist is a psionic prestige class which does not advance your manifester level. Unlike Pyrokineticist, Cryokineticist requires the ability to manifest 2nd level powers.

Like the Pyro, the Cryo gives you the ability to shoot a ray of energy at will as a standard actioin. Unlike the Pyro's Bolt Of Fire, the Cryo's Bolt Of Cold deals 3d6 points of cold damage which never scales and is useable 3 times per day.

Like the Pyro, the Cryo gets the ability to deal energy damage with a touch attack to creatures within 15 feet at first level. Unlike the Pyro's Fire Lash, the Cryo's Glacial Ray is a normal psi-like which requires a standard action to use. It uses a d12 instead of a d8, but that hardly makes up for never scaling, not being able to use it with iterative attacks, and being unable to trip or disarm with it.

Like the Pyro, the Cryo gives you the ability to envelop your weapon in energy. Unlike the Pyro's Weapon Afire, the Cryo's Weapon Afrost deals exactly half as much damage. It also only lasts for a few rounds, meaning you'll have to re-freeze your weapon at the start of every combat.

Like the Pyro, the Cryo can walk on air by expending power points. Unlike the Pyro's Fire Walk, the Cryo's Cold Walk only functions in temperatures of 32° Fahrenheit or colder.
Lycanthromancer
03-23-08, 12:34 AM It's icky.
Malcaor
03-23-08, 12:21 PM I'm not familiar with the Mind's Eye, is it a splatbook?
Lycanthromancer
03-23-08, 12:55 PM The Mind's Eye (and the variant 'okineticist PrCs) are available here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e).
CrimsonDeath
03-23-08, 02:31 PM I'm not familiar with the Mind's Eye, is it a splatbook?

It's a series of articals on the WotC site, which could probably stand to be printed in a compendium. It's pretty highly regarded, since it's the bulk of the decent official psionics support.
MindFlayerZoidberg
03-24-08, 04:20 AM So, if I use a Flame Lash to destroy a Psi Crystal, while it is engaged in a Metaconcert, mounted on a Psion's quarterstaff by using an AoO from the Psi Crystal's Master who just tried to grapple me . . . :eek: :confused: :weep:
ToastedAmphibian
03-26-08, 12:26 PM So, if I use a Flame Lash to destroy a Psi Crystal, while it is engaged in a Metaconcert, mounted on a Psion's quarterstaff by using an AoO from the Psi Crystal's Master who just tried to grapple me . . . :eek: :confused: :weep:

Fire lashes dont threaten.
ToastedAmphibian
03-26-08, 12:35 PM Non Psionic Thri-kreen with Wild tallent

Thrikreen 2/ Ranger 2/ Pyro 8 / Warblade 5/ Blood Claw Master 3

Not in that order of corse.

Multi weapon fighting + Leap Attack + Pouncing Charge + 4 Arms = Ouch
Using Sudden leap to end your turn 80+ft away from your target = Great
Being able to do this at level 10 = Deluxe Can Opener

Of corse, a level of barbarian would probably be even better.....
Thri-kreen speed = 40 + 10 Fleet of Foot (Shar Regional Feat) + 10 Barbarian + 10 speed of thought +10 Boots of Striding=80ft=+(50/10)*4 Jump=+20 Jump +30 Racial Jump........ If only i didnt think lion totem barbarian is to cheap to use.....

Ill Look at this later when im with my books.
Tedronai
03-27-08, 04:44 AM So, if I use a Flame Lash to destroy a Psi Crystal, while it is engaged in a Metaconcert, mounted on a Psion's quarterstaff by using an AoO from the Psi Crystal's Master who just tried to grapple me . . . :eek: :confused: :weep:

SOOO full of problems...

The Lash not threatening is just the tip of the iceburg...
Then there's the problem of apparently using an AoO provoked by one creature to attack another...
And the problem of a Psicrystal having nothing to contribute TO a Metaconcert (unless you include epic feats)...
Oh, and a Psion attempting to initiate a grapple someone who could theoretically pose any risk whatsoever in a melee without being Metamorphed (which would likely cause said staff to meld into the new form) or otherwise superbly buffed...
ToastedAmphibian
03-27-08, 07:10 AM SOOO full of problems...

The Lash not threatening is just the tip of the iceburg...
Then there's the problem of apparently using an AoO provoked by one creature to attack another...
And the problem of a Psicrystal having nothing to contribute TO a Metaconcert (unless you include epic feats)...
Oh, and a Psion attempting to initiate a grapple someone who could theoretically pose any risk whatsoever in a melee without being Metamorphed (which would likely cause said staff to meld into the new form) or otherwise superbly buffed...

Aw, why did you have to steal all the fun before anyone else could get it!

When picking apart a bad post, i think its only common courtessy to leave parts for everyone else.

Its called Shareing :}
Saurixen
03-28-08, 11:43 PM I've played a few pyros, but the best use I ever found for the lash was as a pyro dip from Favored Soul. For story purposes, he was a FS os Sune, so his WF/WS feats were for a whip, and since it's a ranged touch attack, I could use the Psi feat Power Specialization for 1d6+4 fire damage and trip/disarm etc. Not as good as it could have been, but the best use I ever got from it.
MindFlayerZoidberg
03-30-08, 02:39 AM Aw, why did you have to steal all the fun before anyone else could get it!

When picking apart a bad post, i think its only common courtessy to leave parts for everyone else.

Its called Shareing :}

Actually, I was just trying to collect all the 'ambiguous' rules, like psy-crystals being destroyed, metaconcert, AoO, and grapple checks in a funny, sarcastic kind of way. Flame lash seems to be debated constantly.
awaken_D_M_golem
09-18-08, 06:56 PM SEND THIS THREAD TO THE NEW PSI-BOARD , PLEASE !!!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lycanthromancer 03-21-08, 12:23 PM	First of all, let's assume that, as RAW states, you can use feats and abilities on the Flame Lash as if it were all of the following: A.) a ranged weapon, B.) a psi-like ability, and C.) a whip. We can also assume that the Flame Lash works exactly like a whip, except for the above. It makes things much easier. Furthermore, the ML of the Flame Lash is that of your character level (ie, a 10th level character would have a ML of 10). How would you optimize your Flame Lash? You can use any and all splatbooks, the crunchier the better. Me, I think I'd do a psywar19/pyro1, focusing on trip attacks, but I'm not familiar with all of the cool ranged stuff outside of core, so I'm not sure what potential lies in the splatbooks. Any awesome ideas?
Meikle_641 03-21-08, 01:46 PM	It seems to me that some of the best feat you could have for this are Ranged Weapon Specialization (Slashing) and Ranged Weapon Mastery...Unfortunately, these require Weapon Spec. Otherwise, Rang Wep Spec is easy to get. +2/+2 to all ranged weapons that deal slashing.
PsionMage 03-21-08, 01:54 PM	While I definitely agree that you can treat it as a whip and a psi-like ability, I don't think you can treat it as a ranged weapon. Checking the SRD (I'm AFB), it only states that it deals damage on a successful ranged touch attack. Technically, it's only inferred that you should use the 'whip' rules (which is that it's a melee weapon that still provokes as a ranged weapon), but nothing infers that if you can make a ranged touch attack with it, it must be a ranged weapon. If that were so, I'd like to get a wand of <ray spell> enchanted with Distance or maybe Flaming and maybe a few other cool add-ons. I know that sounds kind of rediculous, but a ranged touch attack does not imply ranged weapon classification. Assuming I'm wrong and that it IS a ranged weapon, I'd definitely go for Rapid shot, Improved Rapid Shot, paired with the two weapon fighting tree. Multishot would be an interesting addition as well except it specifically states: "arrow" Pair it with a one-handed spiked chain (just size it smaller or take the monkey grip feat to not lose damage [both take -2 to hit]) and get combat reflexes to use that nice Dex score. Are there any other reach weapons that are finessable and allow touch attacks? That would be much better Note: You're already giving up THF with the whip... but I suppose with the spiked chain you could go from one to the other easy enough.
Lycanthromancer 03-21-08, 01:58 PM	Maybe I should've mentioned that it deals fire damage, rather than slashing (like a whip). But then, the Flame Lash ability says that anyway, so maybe I shouldn't bother? :P Also, the kusari-gama in the DMG is the one-handed equivalent of a spiked chain. It's under the Asian Weapons category on page 145.
CrimsonDeath 03-21-08, 05:16 PM	While I definitely agree that you can treat it as a whip and a psi-like ability, I don't think you can treat it as a ranged weapon. Checking the SRD (I'm AFB), it only states that it deals damage on a successful ranged touch attack. Technically, it's only inferred that you should use the 'whip' rules (which is that it's a melee weapon that still provokes as a ranged weapon), but nothing infers that if you can make a ranged touch attack with it, it must be a ranged weapon. If that were so, I'd like to get a wand of <ray spell> enchanted with Distance or maybe Flaming and maybe a few other cool add-ons. I know that sounds kind of rediculous, but a ranged touch attack does not imply ranged weapon classification. If a ranged weapon isn't "a weapon with which you make ranged attacks", then what is a ranged weapon? And you can't put enchantments on a wand because they're not weapons themselves. They're spell-trigger magic items that sometimes duplicate spells with weaponlike effects. Also... infer (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infer)? I think maybe you meant imply (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/imply). Pair it with a one-handed spiked chain (just size it smaller or take the monkey grip feat to not lose damage [both take -2 to hit]) and get combat reflexes to use that nice Dex score. Are there any other reach weapons that are finessable and allow touch attacks? That would be much better You can't use the spiked chain like that, since you don't get reach from reach weapons that are sized too small for you. Lycanthromancer's right about the Kusari-gama, except that it's actually a light weapon, not one-handed. Note: You're already giving up THF with the whip... but I suppose with the spiked chain you could go from one to the other easy enough. A whip is classified as a one-handed melee weapon, so you can actually wield it two-handed. Which brings me to my contribution: Power Attack.
Belabras 03-21-08, 05:26 PM	Without getting into the crazy logic it takes to even think about the Flame Lash (4e better fix the *******ed thing) How I would optimize the Lash: 1 level dip in Exotic Weapon Master to get the trick that lets you use it in melee without provoking AoOs. A few levels in Swashbuckler for the Precise Strike damage. Lots of levels of Swordsage or Warblade so you can use maneuvers with the Lash.
TheKeyofE 03-21-08, 07:14 PM	Can you use Weapon Afire with your lash? I can't seen any reason why not. Maybe I'm just slow and everyone else has already realized this, but no one mentioned it so I thought I'd throw it out.
Ecalsneerg 03-22-08, 07:59 AM	Can you use Weapon Afire with your lash? I can't seen any reason why not. Maybe I'm just slow and everyone else has already realized this, but no one mentioned it so I thought I'd throw it out. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can.
Malcaor 03-22-08, 09:20 AM	Is the flame lash a one handed weapon? It seems like it judging by the picture in the book. This could be powerful with a creature that has multiple arms and multiattack. Unless there's something I missed, Weapon Afire does work with the lash.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-22-08, 02:57 PM	Without getting into the crazy logic it takes to even think about the Flame Lash (4e better fix the ******ed thing) Nope. Even if the mythical Lord of Procrastination* is working on 4th Ed, they still won't be able to ~debug the whole thing. Think of the game as a computer program, without explicit functions, with an ever expanding rule-set (lines of code), with no financial incentive to RAW-buggery every single rule. Think of Microsoft; even Bill Gates has conceded they can't totally debug Windows. Ergo ... :evillaugh Is the flame lash a one handed weapon? I wonder what the Titan Bloodline would do to the Flame Lash? Stick an Extend Spell-like feat on it. Then Expand it. Then ... something ... Make it reeaaallll long. One hand it via Titan BL. I recall Drunken Master being able to use say a ~100' section of chain as an improvised weapon. This wouldn't be improvised. Obviously unfinished.
Malcaor 03-22-08, 11:20 PM	Is there a way to possibly change the damage type of the whip, like from fire to sonic?
Lycanthromancer 03-22-08, 11:39 PM	Yeah, it's a class variant. You have pyrokineticist (fire), cryokineticist (cold), and so on. One of them is a sonic variant, in The Mind's Eye (I think).
InkBlot 03-23-08, 12:19 AM	The Cryokineticist is a psionic prestige class from Frostburn. It's similar to the Pyrokineticist, but it's not just a pyro who deals cold damage instead. The big difference is that the Cryokineticist sucks really really hard. Like the Pyrokineticist, the Cryokineticist gets 3/4 BAB, a d8 hit die, and 2 skill points per level. Like the Pyrokineticist, Cryokineticist is a psionic prestige class which does not advance your manifester level. Unlike Pyrokineticist, Cryokineticist requires the ability to manifest 2nd level powers. Like the Pyro, the Cryo gives you the ability to shoot a ray of energy at will as a standard actioin. Unlike the Pyro's Bolt Of Fire, the Cryo's Bolt Of Cold deals 3d6 points of cold damage which never scales and is useable 3 times per day. Like the Pyro, the Cryo gets the ability to deal energy damage with a touch attack to creatures within 15 feet at first level. Unlike the Pyro's Fire Lash, the Cryo's Glacial Ray is a normal psi-like which requires a standard action to use. It uses a d12 instead of a d8, but that hardly makes up for never scaling, not being able to use it with iterative attacks, and being unable to trip or disarm with it. Like the Pyro, the Cryo gives you the ability to envelop your weapon in energy. Unlike the Pyro's Weapon Afire, the Cryo's Weapon Afrost deals exactly half as much damage. It also only lasts for a few rounds, meaning you'll have to re-freeze your weapon at the start of every combat. Like the Pyro, the Cryo can walk on air by expending power points. Unlike the Pyro's Fire Walk, the Cryo's Cold Walk only functions in temperatures of 32° Fahrenheit or colder.
Lycanthromancer 03-23-08, 12:34 AM	It's icky.
Malcaor 03-23-08, 12:21 PM	I'm not familiar with the Mind's Eye, is it a splatbook?
Lycanthromancer 03-23-08, 12:55 PM	The Mind's Eye (and the variant 'okineticist PrCs) are available here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e).
CrimsonDeath 03-23-08, 02:31 PM	I'm not familiar with the Mind's Eye, is it a splatbook? It's a series of articals on the WotC site, which could probably stand to be printed in a compendium. It's pretty highly regarded, since it's the bulk of the decent official psionics support.
MindFlayerZoidberg 03-24-08, 04:20 AM	So, if I use a Flame Lash to destroy a Psi Crystal, while it is engaged in a Metaconcert, mounted on a Psion's quarterstaff by using an AoO from the Psi Crystal's Master who just tried to grapple me . . . :eek: :confused: :weep:
ToastedAmphibian 03-26-08, 12:26 PM	So, if I use a Flame Lash to destroy a Psi Crystal, while it is engaged in a Metaconcert, mounted on a Psion's quarterstaff by using an AoO from the Psi Crystal's Master who just tried to grapple me . . . :eek: :confused: :weep: Fire lashes dont threaten.
ToastedAmphibian 03-26-08, 12:35 PM	Non Psionic Thri-kreen with Wild tallent Thrikreen 2/ Ranger 2/ Pyro 8 / Warblade 5/ Blood Claw Master 3 Not in that order of corse. Multi weapon fighting + Leap Attack + Pouncing Charge + 4 Arms = Ouch Using Sudden leap to end your turn 80+ft away from your target = Great Being able to do this at level 10 = Deluxe Can Opener Of corse, a level of barbarian would probably be even better..... Thri-kreen speed = 40 + 10 Fleet of Foot (Shar Regional Feat) + 10 Barbarian + 10 speed of thought +10 Boots of Striding=80ft=+(50/10)*4 Jump=+20 Jump +30 Racial Jump........ If only i didnt think lion totem barbarian is to cheap to use..... Ill Look at this later when im with my books.
Tedronai 03-27-08, 04:44 AM	So, if I use a Flame Lash to destroy a Psi Crystal, while it is engaged in a Metaconcert, mounted on a Psion's quarterstaff by using an AoO from the Psi Crystal's Master who just tried to grapple me . . . :eek: :confused: :weep: SOOO full of problems... The Lash not threatening is just the tip of the iceburg... Then there's the problem of apparently using an AoO provoked by one creature to attack another... And the problem of a Psicrystal having nothing to contribute TO a Metaconcert (unless you include epic feats)... Oh, and a Psion attempting to initiate a grapple someone who could theoretically pose any risk whatsoever in a melee without being Metamorphed (which would likely cause said staff to meld into the new form) or otherwise superbly buffed...
ToastedAmphibian 03-27-08, 07:10 AM	SOOO full of problems... The Lash not threatening is just the tip of the iceburg... Then there's the problem of apparently using an AoO provoked by one creature to attack another... And the problem of a Psicrystal having nothing to contribute TO a Metaconcert (unless you include epic feats)... Oh, and a Psion attempting to initiate a grapple someone who could theoretically pose any risk whatsoever in a melee without being Metamorphed (which would likely cause said staff to meld into the new form) or otherwise superbly buffed... Aw, why did you have to steal all the fun before anyone else could get it! When picking apart a bad post, i think its only common courtessy to leave parts for everyone else. Its called Shareing :}
Saurixen 03-28-08, 11:43 PM	I've played a few pyros, but the best use I ever found for the lash was as a pyro dip from Favored Soul. For story purposes, he was a FS os Sune, so his WF/WS feats were for a whip, and since it's a ranged touch attack, I could use the Psi feat Power Specialization for 1d6+4 fire damage and trip/disarm etc. Not as good as it could have been, but the best use I ever got from it.
MindFlayerZoidberg 03-30-08, 02:39 AM	Aw, why did you have to steal all the fun before anyone else could get it! When picking apart a bad post, i think its only common courtessy to leave parts for everyone else. Its called Shareing :} Actually, I was just trying to collect all the 'ambiguous' rules, like psy-crystals being destroyed, metaconcert, AoO, and grapple checks in a funny, sarcastic kind of way. Flame lash seems to be debated constantly.
awaken_D_M_golem 09-18-08, 06:56 PM	SEND THIS THREAD TO THE NEW PSI-BOARD , PLEASE !!!