Option for a dimwitted Goblin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Option for a dimwitted Goblin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Blacksworddragon
08-16-07, 12:34 PM My current character, a Goblin Fighter, is the tank for my current group. Unfortunately, when I create her I paid no regards to her mental scores(Int:11, Wis: 12, Cha: 12). Now I'm going to Multi-Class into some kind of Psionic character. Psychic Warrior fits my build for the tank and offers me more feats but my stats aren't the kind a Psychic should have. Never the less, I'm still gunning for a Psionics character.

Seeing as I'm new maybe someone can give me an idea that allows me to be a Psionic character without being useless.
Water_To_Fire
08-16-07, 12:41 PM Buy a Periapt of Wisdom +(whatever you can afford). Problem solved.
Tempest Stormwind
08-16-07, 12:52 PM My current character, a Goblin Fighter, is the tank for my current group. Unfortunately, when I create her I paid no regards to her mental scores(Int:11, Wis: 12, Cha: 12). Now I'm going to Multi-Class into some kind of Psionic character. Psychic Warrior fits my build for the tank and offers me more feats but my stats aren't the kind a Psychic should have. Never the less, I'm still gunning for a Psionics character.

Seeing as I'm new maybe someone can give me an idea that allows me to be a Psionic character without being useless.

You don't need to have levels in those classes to be psionic. You just need power points, which you can also get with the Wild Talent feat. One point in Wisdom (when you gain an ability score increase) is all you'd need to take some pretty sweet psionic feats.
Blacksworddragon
08-16-07, 12:58 PM You don't need to have levels in those classes to be psionic. You just need power points, which you can also get with the Wild Talent feat. One point in Wisdom (when you gain an ability score increase) is all you'd need to take some pretty sweet psionic feats.

Do these feats count as Combats Feats that a Fighter can take as his bonus? If so, which do you suggest?
Tempest Stormwind
08-16-07, 01:17 PM Do these feats count as Combats Feats that a Fighter can take as his bonus? If so, which do you suggest?

No, because the fighter sucks. The psychic warrior, however, gets bonus feats that can be fighter feats *or* psionic feats.

Simple suggestions include Psionic Body, Speed of Thought, Up the Walls, Deflective Armor (Races of Stone), and any of the multitude of similar feats in Untapped Potential (see the FAQ at the top of the forum; UTP also contains several feats designed for people in your situation, and some of those *are* noted as fighter feats).

Alternatively, if you have a good Concentration modifier (again with the fighter sucking; to get Concentration as a class skill, take Martial Study (any Diamond Mind maneuver; I'd suggest Moment of Perfect Mind) from the Tome of Battle), look into expend-focus feats. Examples of these include Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Wounding Strike, Psionic Charge and Return Shot.

As an aside, after you get Wild Talent (or Hidden Talent if the DM allows it), that suggested Concentration feat -- Martial Study (Moment of Perfect Mind) -- becomes a great feat anyway. It lets you, once per encounter, roll Concentration instead of a Will save. Being psionic, you can expend your psionic focus to "take 15" on any Concentration check. This amounts to once per encounter pretty much auto-passing any Will save effect if you have a decent Concentration.
HoshiAdam
08-16-07, 01:37 PM I think where you go depends on what feats you have already and what fighting style you use. If you are an all Strength power attack and heavy armor kind of tank, Ardent might make a better choice for a few levels than Psychic Warrior. Take the Freedom and Force mantles starting out (and Destruction when you hit 2nd level), and you can get some nice perks from being focused. The Freedom mantle increases your base land speed, and unlike Speed of Thought, it works in heavy armor. Force mantle gives access to Force Screen. If you fight with a two-handed weapon, this means not needing a dancing shield.

Now, if you are a mobility kind of fighter, Psychic Warrior would be a little better probably. You can take 2 levels of it pretty easily, but won't get as many power points as taking two levels of Ardent.
AntiDjinn
08-16-07, 01:41 PM Taking levels of psychic warrior won't be all that bad. A 12 Wis gives you access to second level powers (covers you up to PsW level 6) and by then you will have had a stat increase to get that up to 13. You will have a very short power point pool due to lack of bonus points so you will need to make use of psionic feats more than powers.

The psychic warrior is not concerned so much about boosting DC; because his key powers are personal DC is irrelevant (as is ability to pierce power resistance). When you manifest Skate on yourself to boost movement, all you need is Wis 11 and having Wis 21 does not make you move faster. The higher stat just means you can manifest the power more frequently because you have more points to burn.

One area where you will suffer for being multiclassed: Your powers will be easy for a caster of comparable level to dispel. This is simply a hazzard of manifester multiclassing. When it comes to being targeted with Dispel Psionics, your stats don't matter, only your manifester level does. It won't happen every day, but it will really suck when it does happen; spending several rounds preparing for a fight and boosting your damage output, defenses, and movement only to have an opponent dispel the lot on the first round of the fight will spoil your whole day if it doesn't get you killed. If you do multiclass into PsW then Practiced Manifester is one of the feats to take as a bonus psionic feat since it gives your buffs at least a chance of standing up to a dispel.
Salla
08-16-07, 01:51 PM As a side note, your character is hardly dimwitted. Those stats are all above average compared to human norms. :)
CrimsonDeath
08-16-07, 04:06 PM You may also consider the War Mind prestiege class if you can qualify.
Blacksworddragon
08-16-07, 05:46 PM I won't be able to take my first level in Psychic Warrior until 6th level when I can take Wild Talent(or Hidden Talent if my DM caves in). I'm going to take a painful penalty in experience because of the gap in levels. How many levels of Psychic warrior should I take? I was reading up on War Mind and I like wher that prestige class will take me but I'm afraid its going to take me too long to achieve it. Opinions?
AntiDjinn
08-16-07, 06:52 PM You don't need Wild Talent to take levels of Psychic Warrior. The class itself gives you the psionic subtype. No base class has entry requirements (even the few that have alignment restrictions are open to any race). You might need to work the awakening of your psionic potential into the storyline, but the mechincs of taking a level of Psychic Warrior is as simple as leveling up and writing "/Psychic Warrior 1" on your character sheet.
Tempest Stormwind
08-16-07, 07:11 PM Take war mind. Work with your DM to find a replacement to the Knowledge requirements -- because, as has been mentioned, the fighter is boned in many areas, including that one.

I'd forgotten about War Mind. If you can get in, it is *by far* your best option.
AntiDjinn
08-16-07, 07:29 PM The War Mind is a pseudo organization-based PrC (entry depends on having read the "Talariic Texts" so you need a sponsor or a group who can give you access) but the organization is low-key and easy to drop into any world. The text or other form of ancient lore could easily vary from world to world.

The prereq of Knowledge (Psionics) 8 ranks is a problem. 8 ranks of Knowledge is the same as saying "fighters, stay out."

A reasonable fix would be to drop that to 2 ranks of Knowledge (psionics) and add a service requirement for the organization. It makes sense that the group that can train War Minds won't take just anyone and you should have to do something for them before they will roll out the sacred texts.
Jaid
08-17-07, 12:43 AM The War Mind is a pseudo organization-based PrC (entry depends on having read the "Talariic Texts" so you need a sponsor or a group who can give you access) but the organization is low-key and easy to drop into any world. The text or other form of ancient lore could easily vary from world to world.

The prereq of Knowledge (Psionics) 8 ranks is a problem. 8 ranks of Knowledge is the same as saying "fighters, stay out."

A reasonable fix would be to drop that to 2 ranks of Knowledge (psionics) and add a service requirement for the organization. It makes sense that the group that can train War Minds won't take just anyone and you should have to do something for them before they will roll out the sacred texts.

actually, 2 ranks means that a fighter could take it as their 4th level... which i don't believe is quite the intention ;)
Blacksworddragon
08-17-07, 12:32 PM I was actually under the impression that a non-Psionic race was required to take Wild Talent before taking levels in the Psionic classes. If that assumption was wrong it changes a lot of my options. I hit level 4 yesterday and I now have Two Weapon Fighting, Two weapon Defense, Weapon Focus [Punching Daggers], Weapon Specialization [Punching Daggers], and Point Blank Shot. I thought that I'd have to wait until 6th level so that I could take a non-Combat Feat(Wild Talent or Hidden Talent) and then take a level in Psychic Warrior.

If I can just take the class without the Feat I'm gonna take it at next level.

As a side note how could I fit a link to Psionics into the background of a Goblin raced by loving Halfling parents and on a quest to defeat an army of Dragon riding BBEGs?
HoshiAdam
08-17-07, 12:48 PM There are psionic goblins called Blues. Your character might have had one among his ancestors.

Now, the downside to taking levels of psychic warrior now is that you push back Improved Two Weapon Fighting quite a bit.

One question - why no Weapon Finesse?
Blacksworddragon
08-17-07, 12:58 PM There are psionic goblins called Blues. Your character might have had one among his ancestors.

Now, the downside to taking levels of psychic warrior now is that you push back Improved Two Weapon Fighting quite a bit.

One question - why no Weapon Finesse?

The diferense between Dex and Str was merely 1 point so I decided to go a differnet way with my Feats.

That idea of having a Blue in the character's heritage isn't bad, are Blues found in the extended Psionics book? I don't have it in front of me.
jbsaff
08-17-07, 02:37 PM Even better.. They are in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blacksworddragon 08-16-07, 12:34 PM	My current character, a Goblin Fighter, is the tank for my current group. Unfortunately, when I create her I paid no regards to her mental scores(Int:11, Wis: 12, Cha: 12). Now I'm going to Multi-Class into some kind of Psionic character. Psychic Warrior fits my build for the tank and offers me more feats but my stats aren't the kind a Psychic should have. Never the less, I'm still gunning for a Psionics character. Seeing as I'm new maybe someone can give me an idea that allows me to be a Psionic character without being useless.
Water_To_Fire 08-16-07, 12:41 PM	Buy a Periapt of Wisdom +(whatever you can afford). Problem solved.
Tempest Stormwind 08-16-07, 12:52 PM	My current character, a Goblin Fighter, is the tank for my current group. Unfortunately, when I create her I paid no regards to her mental scores(Int:11, Wis: 12, Cha: 12). Now I'm going to Multi-Class into some kind of Psionic character. Psychic Warrior fits my build for the tank and offers me more feats but my stats aren't the kind a Psychic should have. Never the less, I'm still gunning for a Psionics character. Seeing as I'm new maybe someone can give me an idea that allows me to be a Psionic character without being useless. You don't need to have levels in those classes to be psionic. You just need power points, which you can also get with the Wild Talent feat. One point in Wisdom (when you gain an ability score increase) is all you'd need to take some pretty sweet psionic feats.
Blacksworddragon 08-16-07, 12:58 PM	You don't need to have levels in those classes to be psionic. You just need power points, which you can also get with the Wild Talent feat. One point in Wisdom (when you gain an ability score increase) is all you'd need to take some pretty sweet psionic feats. Do these feats count as Combats Feats that a Fighter can take as his bonus? If so, which do you suggest?
Tempest Stormwind 08-16-07, 01:17 PM	Do these feats count as Combats Feats that a Fighter can take as his bonus? If so, which do you suggest? No, because the fighter sucks. The psychic warrior, however, gets bonus feats that can be fighter feats or psionic feats. Simple suggestions include Psionic Body, Speed of Thought, Up the Walls, Deflective Armor (Races of Stone), and any of the multitude of similar feats in Untapped Potential (see the FAQ at the top of the forum; UTP also contains several feats designed for people in your situation, and some of those are noted as fighter feats). Alternatively, if you have a good Concentration modifier (again with the fighter sucking; to get Concentration as a class skill, take Martial Study (any Diamond Mind maneuver; I'd suggest Moment of Perfect Mind) from the Tome of Battle), look into expend-focus feats. Examples of these include Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Wounding Strike, Psionic Charge and Return Shot. As an aside, after you get Wild Talent (or Hidden Talent if the DM allows it), that suggested Concentration feat -- Martial Study (Moment of Perfect Mind) -- becomes a great feat anyway. It lets you, once per encounter, roll Concentration instead of a Will save. Being psionic, you can expend your psionic focus to "take 15" on any Concentration check. This amounts to once per encounter pretty much auto-passing any Will save effect if you have a decent Concentration.
HoshiAdam 08-16-07, 01:37 PM	I think where you go depends on what feats you have already and what fighting style you use. If you are an all Strength power attack and heavy armor kind of tank, Ardent might make a better choice for a few levels than Psychic Warrior. Take the Freedom and Force mantles starting out (and Destruction when you hit 2nd level), and you can get some nice perks from being focused. The Freedom mantle increases your base land speed, and unlike Speed of Thought, it works in heavy armor. Force mantle gives access to Force Screen. If you fight with a two-handed weapon, this means not needing a dancing shield. Now, if you are a mobility kind of fighter, Psychic Warrior would be a little better probably. You can take 2 levels of it pretty easily, but won't get as many power points as taking two levels of Ardent.
AntiDjinn 08-16-07, 01:41 PM	Taking levels of psychic warrior won't be all that bad. A 12 Wis gives you access to second level powers (covers you up to PsW level 6) and by then you will have had a stat increase to get that up to 13. You will have a very short power point pool due to lack of bonus points so you will need to make use of psionic feats more than powers. The psychic warrior is not concerned so much about boosting DC; because his key powers are personal DC is irrelevant (as is ability to pierce power resistance). When you manifest Skate on yourself to boost movement, all you need is Wis 11 and having Wis 21 does not make you move faster. The higher stat just means you can manifest the power more frequently because you have more points to burn. One area where you will suffer for being multiclassed: Your powers will be easy for a caster of comparable level to dispel. This is simply a hazzard of manifester multiclassing. When it comes to being targeted with Dispel Psionics, your stats don't matter, only your manifester level does. It won't happen every day, but it will really suck when it does happen; spending several rounds preparing for a fight and boosting your damage output, defenses, and movement only to have an opponent dispel the lot on the first round of the fight will spoil your whole day if it doesn't get you killed. If you do multiclass into PsW then Practiced Manifester is one of the feats to take as a bonus psionic feat since it gives your buffs at least a chance of standing up to a dispel.
Salla 08-16-07, 01:51 PM	As a side note, your character is hardly dimwitted. Those stats are all above average compared to human norms. :)
CrimsonDeath 08-16-07, 04:06 PM	You may also consider the War Mind prestiege class if you can qualify.
Blacksworddragon 08-16-07, 05:46 PM	I won't be able to take my first level in Psychic Warrior until 6th level when I can take Wild Talent(or Hidden Talent if my DM caves in). I'm going to take a painful penalty in experience because of the gap in levels. How many levels of Psychic warrior should I take? I was reading up on War Mind and I like wher that prestige class will take me but I'm afraid its going to take me too long to achieve it. Opinions?
AntiDjinn 08-16-07, 06:52 PM	You don't need Wild Talent to take levels of Psychic Warrior. The class itself gives you the psionic subtype. No base class has entry requirements (even the few that have alignment restrictions are open to any race). You might need to work the awakening of your psionic potential into the storyline, but the mechincs of taking a level of Psychic Warrior is as simple as leveling up and writing "/Psychic Warrior 1" on your character sheet.
Tempest Stormwind 08-16-07, 07:11 PM	Take war mind. Work with your DM to find a replacement to the Knowledge requirements -- because, as has been mentioned, the fighter is boned in many areas, including that one. I'd forgotten about War Mind. If you can get in, it is by far your best option.
AntiDjinn 08-16-07, 07:29 PM	The War Mind is a pseudo organization-based PrC (entry depends on having read the "Talariic Texts" so you need a sponsor or a group who can give you access) but the organization is low-key and easy to drop into any world. The text or other form of ancient lore could easily vary from world to world. The prereq of Knowledge (Psionics) 8 ranks is a problem. 8 ranks of Knowledge is the same as saying "fighters, stay out." A reasonable fix would be to drop that to 2 ranks of Knowledge (psionics) and add a service requirement for the organization. It makes sense that the group that can train War Minds won't take just anyone and you should have to do something for them before they will roll out the sacred texts.
Jaid 08-17-07, 12:43 AM	The War Mind is a pseudo organization-based PrC (entry depends on having read the "Talariic Texts" so you need a sponsor or a group who can give you access) but the organization is low-key and easy to drop into any world. The text or other form of ancient lore could easily vary from world to world. The prereq of Knowledge (Psionics) 8 ranks is a problem. 8 ranks of Knowledge is the same as saying "fighters, stay out." A reasonable fix would be to drop that to 2 ranks of Knowledge (psionics) and add a service requirement for the organization. It makes sense that the group that can train War Minds won't take just anyone and you should have to do something for them before they will roll out the sacred texts. actually, 2 ranks means that a fighter could take it as their 4th level... which i don't believe is quite the intention ;)
Blacksworddragon 08-17-07, 12:32 PM	I was actually under the impression that a non-Psionic race was required to take Wild Talent before taking levels in the Psionic classes. If that assumption was wrong it changes a lot of my options. I hit level 4 yesterday and I now have Two Weapon Fighting, Two weapon Defense, Weapon Focus [Punching Daggers], Weapon Specialization [Punching Daggers], and Point Blank Shot. I thought that I'd have to wait until 6th level so that I could take a non-Combat Feat(Wild Talent or Hidden Talent) and then take a level in Psychic Warrior. If I can just take the class without the Feat I'm gonna take it at next level. As a side note how could I fit a link to Psionics into the background of a Goblin raced by loving Halfling parents and on a quest to defeat an army of Dragon riding BBEGs?
HoshiAdam 08-17-07, 12:48 PM	There are psionic goblins called Blues. Your character might have had one among his ancestors. Now, the downside to taking levels of psychic warrior now is that you push back Improved Two Weapon Fighting quite a bit. One question - why no Weapon Finesse?
Blacksworddragon 08-17-07, 12:58 PM	There are psionic goblins called Blues. Your character might have had one among his ancestors. Now, the downside to taking levels of psychic warrior now is that you push back Improved Two Weapon Fighting quite a bit. One question - why no Weapon Finesse? The diferense between Dex and Str was merely 1 point so I decided to go a differnet way with my Feats. That idea of having a Blue in the character's heritage isn't bad, are Blues found in the extended Psionics book? I don't have it in front of me.
jbsaff 08-17-07, 02:37 PM	Even better.. They are in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm).