Penetrating Power & Other Advice Needed. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Penetrating Power & Other Advice Needed. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psilar
07-22-07, 03:15 AM The feat Penetrating Power from Hyperconscious allows another +4 to power penetration checks for expending focus, it has the pre-req's of Power Pen & Power Pen Greater.

How many Psionic Foci do I need to spend to utilise all three ? 3 one for each expend focus requisite, or do they supercede each other so that I only need to expend my focus once to gain +12 to overcome Power Resistance ?

Secondly, in Epic builds ( I have read the excellent compilation in the Psion Build Guide thread), is Persistant power ever worth it, or can you make do with extend power only, the increase in PP's by 12 makes it seem subpar, however do you save over the course of 4 encounters per day versus Extend Power, when using Inertial Armor & Precog Offensive to boost your touch attacks for powers.

Thirdly, is it just me or is Talented suboptimal after you pick up Psychic Reformation, as it is a feat slot that is only used some of the time, when at higher levels you can manifest true metabolism in an overchanneled/extended temporal acceleration as well as your other buffs & a shared vigor with your Psi-Crystal, & make up some of the damage, plus if you are in a TK Sphere, you are laughing most of the time.

Whew that was a mouthfull, I guess what I'm saying is it worth it versus taking another feat & trying to make up the overchannel damage, plus saving having to blow a focus on it when in all likelihood at higher levels you will be wanting more beneficial Metapsionic Feats to be used ?

Any help or advice appreciated.
InkBlot
07-22-07, 11:19 AM I don't know about Hyperconscious, but in the XPH the Greater Power Penetration does not stack with Power Penetration. You can expend focus for one or the other, but doing so for both wouldn't have any added affect.
Fleem
07-22-07, 01:09 PM To clarify, the Expanded Psionics Handbook errata revises Greater Power Penetration feat, making it +8 and overlapping with Power Penetration.
Psilar
07-23-07, 12:38 AM Ahhh missed it in the errata, so feasibly If this was the ruling then Penetrating Power could allow a +12 for expenditure of only one focus, however it is feat intensive.

The question then is whether it is worth it once Epic, as it is pretty cheap to get high PR/MR items. I guess if your build is not reliant on Metamorphosis or Metamorphosis Greater & you need those Powers to get through their PR (if your enemy has Globe of Invulnerability thus negating Crystal Shard, Energy Ray & Hail of Crystals) then they could be of benefit.

Any other advice on the other questions ? I am currently playing a Kineticist approaching Epic Level (L18) & want to stay competitive with my Arcane brothers ;)

Another question, I have found that it is a waste of a Feat taking Expanded Knowledge in a high Psi campaign, as joining a guild & undertaking quests for the hierachy, or searching for a suitably high level Psion allows you to spend GP on Psychic Chirugery to gain new powers. (Obviously DM dependant). How do you guys get on in this regard ? Do you play high Psi (or at least equal to arcane), or do you struggle for equality ?

Thanks again for the advice.
sijigs
07-23-07, 01:00 AM I'm an 11th level psion now and thinking of taking Burrowing Power because it has tons of potential.

Take it and tell me how you go, yeah? ;)
Psilar
07-23-07, 01:36 AM Basically my Human Kineticist build so far is:

1-Psicrystal Affinity - Hero (Was Single Minded but used Psychic Reformation)
1-Overchannel
1-Extend Power (was Talented but used Psychic Reformation)
3-Psicrystal Containment
5-Psionic Meditation
6-Empower Power
7-Maximize Power
10-Metamorphic Transfer
12-Power Penetration
15-Burrowing Power
15-Twin Power
18-Split Psionic Ray

Powers:
1-Energy Ray, Crystal Shard, Vigor, Inertial Armor, Precog Offensive
2-Concussion Blast, Energy Missile, Ego Whip, Levitate
3-Time Hop, Dispel Psionics, Solicit Psicrystal, Share Pain
4-Psychic Reformation, Freedom Of Movement, Energy Ball, Dimension Door
5-True Seeing, Power Resistance, Energy Current, Anticiptory Strike
6-Contingency, Temporal Acceleration, Disintegrate
7-Dispelling Buffer (L6 Power But Taken Later), Mind Blank Personal, Reddopsi
8-Telekinetic Sphere, Bend Reality, Teleport Psionic Greater
9-Reality Revision, Tornado Blast, Affinity Field

Also have paid GP to a L20 Telepath who granted via Psychic Chirugery

L3-Energy Wall
L4-Schism
L7-Energy Conversion
L8-True Metabolism

L19 & 20 will take Microcosm, Urge Extermination & Etherealness, Feat for L20 looking at Quicken Power or Power Penetration Greater.

Equipment of Note: Skin of Proteus, Skin Of Ectoplasmic Armor, Torc Of Power Preservation, 3rd Eye Of Penetrate, Headband Of Intellect +6.

Anyway, any advice for the future of the build going Epic much appreciated. (Yes I have read Carnivore's EXCELLENT Psion Build Guide).
Mesiolan
07-23-07, 07:12 AM A kinetikist has much to gain in low-mid levels from "privileged energy". The benefit dimishes, when the energy-attacks are regularly countered by energy resistance or immunity.

On a side-note: why do you have both "empower" and "maximize power"? If I look at the energy powers alone (1pp = 1d6 damage), empower power is useful as soon as you invest 7 or more pp. The break even is at 18pp:

3.5*1.5*(X-2) = 6*(X-4)
X=18

Maximize power is more useful then empower, if you invest 19pp or more (for 1d6/pp) or 59pp (for 1d6+1/pp).

4.5*1.5*(X-2) = 7*(X-4)
X=58

When do you burn 58pp on a single power? At lv. 29 with "epic overchannel", which will kill your PC for sure (58d6 HP IIRC).

At lv. 18, a maximized and empowered energy (fire or cold) attack is about even to a fully augmented empowered one:

18pp: 12d6+12 (max, emp) = 12*7+4.5*0.5=111 (save DC +6)
18pp: 16d6+16 (emp) = 16*4.5*1.5 = 108 (save DC +8)
18pp: 14d6+14 (max) = 14*7 = 98 (save DC +7)
18pp: 18d6+18 = 18*4.5 = 81 (save DC +9)

I like maximize power only if I encounter a "damp power" defense, or when using "body adjustment".

For epic levels, take "epic psionic focus" early and more than once. Just stack your metapsionic feats on your empowered attacks, i.e. "gr. power penetration", "gr. endowment" and "empower power" or "twin power". Make sure your powers hit hard and are difficult to resist.

Another one is the "tornado blast routine". Really expensive, but... Before you do this, ask you DM how he handles a timestop and multiple delayed blast fireballs. It's about the same.

Combine "temporal acceleration" and "tornado blast" with "delay power". Squeeze in some "overchannel" and "empower" cheese. Do the math yourself.
Psilar
07-23-07, 08:36 AM Thanks for the help, I will probably Psychic Reform Maximize Power & replace it with Power Penetration, then replace Power Penetration with Power Penetration Greater.

Any other advice regarding Kineticists in Epic play ? Anyone ever taken one that far & how did they stack up ? I am happy so far that I am as competitive as anyone else in my party, we started at L2, so he has come a long way. My Epic play however, is limited to two old campaigns, both times melee types & I found that versus casters they didn't cut it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psilar 07-22-07, 03:15 AM	The feat Penetrating Power from Hyperconscious allows another +4 to power penetration checks for expending focus, it has the pre-req's of Power Pen & Power Pen Greater. How many Psionic Foci do I need to spend to utilise all three ? 3 one for each expend focus requisite, or do they supercede each other so that I only need to expend my focus once to gain +12 to overcome Power Resistance ? Secondly, in Epic builds ( I have read the excellent compilation in the Psion Build Guide thread), is Persistant power ever worth it, or can you make do with extend power only, the increase in PP's by 12 makes it seem subpar, however do you save over the course of 4 encounters per day versus Extend Power, when using Inertial Armor & Precog Offensive to boost your touch attacks for powers. Thirdly, is it just me or is Talented suboptimal after you pick up Psychic Reformation, as it is a feat slot that is only used some of the time, when at higher levels you can manifest true metabolism in an overchanneled/extended temporal acceleration as well as your other buffs & a shared vigor with your Psi-Crystal, & make up some of the damage, plus if you are in a TK Sphere, you are laughing most of the time. Whew that was a mouthfull, I guess what I'm saying is it worth it versus taking another feat & trying to make up the overchannel damage, plus saving having to blow a focus on it when in all likelihood at higher levels you will be wanting more beneficial Metapsionic Feats to be used ? Any help or advice appreciated.
InkBlot 07-22-07, 11:19 AM	I don't know about Hyperconscious, but in the XPH the Greater Power Penetration does not stack with Power Penetration. You can expend focus for one or the other, but doing so for both wouldn't have any added affect.
Fleem 07-22-07, 01:09 PM	To clarify, the Expanded Psionics Handbook errata revises Greater Power Penetration feat, making it +8 and overlapping with Power Penetration.
Psilar 07-23-07, 12:38 AM	Ahhh missed it in the errata, so feasibly If this was the ruling then Penetrating Power could allow a +12 for expenditure of only one focus, however it is feat intensive. The question then is whether it is worth it once Epic, as it is pretty cheap to get high PR/MR items. I guess if your build is not reliant on Metamorphosis or Metamorphosis Greater & you need those Powers to get through their PR (if your enemy has Globe of Invulnerability thus negating Crystal Shard, Energy Ray & Hail of Crystals) then they could be of benefit. Any other advice on the other questions ? I am currently playing a Kineticist approaching Epic Level (L18) & want to stay competitive with my Arcane brothers ;) Another question, I have found that it is a waste of a Feat taking Expanded Knowledge in a high Psi campaign, as joining a guild & undertaking quests for the hierachy, or searching for a suitably high level Psion allows you to spend GP on Psychic Chirugery to gain new powers. (Obviously DM dependant). How do you guys get on in this regard ? Do you play high Psi (or at least equal to arcane), or do you struggle for equality ? Thanks again for the advice.
sijigs 07-23-07, 01:00 AM	I'm an 11th level psion now and thinking of taking Burrowing Power because it has tons of potential. Take it and tell me how you go, yeah? ;)
Psilar 07-23-07, 01:36 AM	Basically my Human Kineticist build so far is: 1-Psicrystal Affinity - Hero (Was Single Minded but used Psychic Reformation) 1-Overchannel 1-Extend Power (was Talented but used Psychic Reformation) 3-Psicrystal Containment 5-Psionic Meditation 6-Empower Power 7-Maximize Power 10-Metamorphic Transfer 12-Power Penetration 15-Burrowing Power 15-Twin Power 18-Split Psionic Ray Powers: 1-Energy Ray, Crystal Shard, Vigor, Inertial Armor, Precog Offensive 2-Concussion Blast, Energy Missile, Ego Whip, Levitate 3-Time Hop, Dispel Psionics, Solicit Psicrystal, Share Pain 4-Psychic Reformation, Freedom Of Movement, Energy Ball, Dimension Door 5-True Seeing, Power Resistance, Energy Current, Anticiptory Strike 6-Contingency, Temporal Acceleration, Disintegrate 7-Dispelling Buffer (L6 Power But Taken Later), Mind Blank Personal, Reddopsi 8-Telekinetic Sphere, Bend Reality, Teleport Psionic Greater 9-Reality Revision, Tornado Blast, Affinity Field Also have paid GP to a L20 Telepath who granted via Psychic Chirugery L3-Energy Wall L4-Schism L7-Energy Conversion L8-True Metabolism L19 & 20 will take Microcosm, Urge Extermination & Etherealness, Feat for L20 looking at Quicken Power or Power Penetration Greater. Equipment of Note: Skin of Proteus, Skin Of Ectoplasmic Armor, Torc Of Power Preservation, 3rd Eye Of Penetrate, Headband Of Intellect +6. Anyway, any advice for the future of the build going Epic much appreciated. (Yes I have read Carnivore's EXCELLENT Psion Build Guide).
Mesiolan 07-23-07, 07:12 AM	A kinetikist has much to gain in low-mid levels from "privileged energy". The benefit dimishes, when the energy-attacks are regularly countered by energy resistance or immunity. On a side-note: why do you have both "empower" and "maximize power"? If I look at the energy powers alone (1pp = 1d6 damage), empower power is useful as soon as you invest 7 or more pp. The break even is at 18pp: 3.51.5(X-2) = 6(X-4) X=18 Maximize power is more useful then empower, if you invest 19pp or more (for 1d6/pp) or 59pp (for 1d6+1/pp). 4.51.5(X-2) = 7(X-4) X=58 When do you burn 58pp on a single power? At lv. 29 with "epic overchannel", which will kill your PC for sure (58d6 HP IIRC). At lv. 18, a maximized and empowered energy (fire or cold) attack is about even to a fully augmented empowered one: 18pp: 12d6+12 (max, emp) = 127+4.50.5=111 (save DC +6) 18pp: 16d6+16 (emp) = 164.51.5 = 108 (save DC +8) 18pp: 14d6+14 (max) = 147 = 98 (save DC +7) 18pp: 18d6+18 = 184.5 = 81 (save DC +9) I like maximize power only if I encounter a "damp power" defense, or when using "body adjustment". For epic levels, take "epic psionic focus" early and more than once. Just stack your metapsionic feats on your empowered attacks, i.e. "gr. power penetration", "gr. endowment" and "empower power" or "twin power". Make sure your powers hit hard and are difficult to resist. Another one is the "tornado blast routine". Really expensive, but... Before you do this, ask you DM how he handles a timestop and multiple delayed blast fireballs. It's about the same. Combine "temporal acceleration" and "tornado blast" with "delay power". Squeeze in some "overchannel" and "empower" cheese. Do the math yourself.
Psilar 07-23-07, 08:36 AM	Thanks for the help, I will probably Psychic Reform Maximize Power & replace it with Power Penetration, then replace Power Penetration with Power Penetration Greater. Any other advice regarding Kineticists in Epic play ? Anyone ever taken one that far & how did they stack up ? I am happy so far that I am as competitive as anyone else in my party, we started at L2, so he has come a long way. My Epic play however, is limited to two old campaigns, both times melee types & I found that versus casters they didn't cut it.