Per day, per encounter, and per round psionics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Per day, per encounter, and per round psionics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
12-02-07, 11:16 AM How do you envision this working?

My idea is that there would be three sources of power points: the per-round source, the per-encounter source, and the per-day source. Much as temporary hit points are depleted first when taking damage, per-round power points are depleted first for a power, then per-encounter power points, and finally per-day power points.

Outside of combat encounters, only per-round and per-day power points could be used. In addition, for certain purposes, such as the bestow power power and charging cognizance crystals, only per-day power points could be expended.

A crude, untested, and not-very-carefully-thought-out schematic I came up with was, roughly, to divide a psion's power points by 3, then take the result as a psion's daily power points, divide that by five for a psion's encounterly power points, and then divide that by five for a psion's roundly power points.

So, a psion's power point chart would look like this:

Level Daily Encounterly Roundly
1 0 1 0
2 2 1 0
3 4 1 0
4 6 1 0
5 9 2 0
6 12 2 0
7 16 3 1
8 20 4 1
9 24 5 1
10 30 6 1
11 36 7 1
12 42 9 2
13 49 10 2
14 57 12 2
15 65 13 3
16 74 15 3
17 84 17 3
18 94 19 4
19 104 21 4
20 115 23 5

So leaving out the calculation of bonus power points, which I haven't thought of yet, if you're a level 9 telepath, and you're at full strength, and you get into an encounter, you can first manifest 7 pp dominate, first contributing your roundly 1 pp to the cost, then paying the remaining cost with your 5 encounterly pp, then lastly with 1 of your daily pp. Then, the next round, if you want to manifest dominate again, you once again pay 1 roundly pp to the cost, and then pay all of the remaining 6 pp from your daily account.

Note: I have the feeling that the above system won't work for some reason, but I'm just posting this as a crude schematic of how psionics' system of variable power costs paid out of a pool could mostly be preserved as a system while fitting the daily/encounterly/roundly system.
hovnarr
12-02-07, 11:39 AM I'm thinking the day/encounter/round system will replace power points. Each power will be specified for either use type, or may have different distinct uses.

For example, knowing Matter Agitation may allow you to cause a small amount of non-typed, small area damage each round. Knowing Energy Missiles may allow you to blast once, forcefully, per encounter. Much like a 3/day psi ability. Astral Construct (and any other summoning effect in non-psionically flavored systems) is another example of something I think will work 1/encounter. Something like Psionic Contingency or Identify could work once per day.

In 4th ed, everyone will basically be a warlock. Mechanically speaking. The abilities will be flavored differently, and their power level will determine how often you can use them.
JulesCARV
12-02-07, 04:59 PM That seems more likely to occur in practice to me, but I'm just trying to think of another way it could be done that kept the idea of a psion drawing on a single, unified pool of power to manifest any of a wide variety of powers, rather than accessing one "layer" of his abilities to manifest weak, cheap powers, access another "layer" to manifest expensive, powerful powers, etc.
Tsuul
12-02-07, 07:17 PM Why does it have to be a single pool? There are many layers to conscious and subconscious. It's all about choice in flavor wrappings.

Psionics has always had a different system for doing things, and historically, all but one system has been a flop; and that working system took two attempts to get right.

As long as the system they choose for 4th works, I won't care.
If that system is exactly the same as divine and arcane magic, and it works, then it will have added benefits that a separate system could never have. Pure mechanical compatibility.
Racinante
12-03-07, 11:20 AM Perhaps the powers themselves will be altered to effectively only allow per day, per encounter and per round abilities.

Some powers could be used at will and automatically augment to your manifester level. These would normally deal damage, but at a lower level than current powers (and may not affect objects at all). Some of these may be usable in addition to other actions in a round. This type of power would be of no value outside of an encounter (or have no significant game effect outside of combat).

Per encounter abilities would be based on a power point pool exclusively and would require augmentation. This allows a limited nova and still requires some resource management.

Per day abilities would both require a longer manifestation time (10 minutes or more) and last all day. Ideally, these would not be subject to negation (since they could only be manifest once per day). These could be powers that give damage reduction, bonuses to saves, party bonuses / communication abilities, or permanent item creation, etc.
DracoPhoenix
12-06-07, 07:35 AM I'm guessing the below is a bit too simple :)

L1-3 powers : at will
L4-6 powers : 1 / Encounter
L7-9 powers : 1 / day

This may mean a few powers shift power level, but would at least be a good starting point.

The alternative is based off time :

concentration / duration in rounds : at will
Minutes / 10's of minutes : 1 / Encounter
Hours + : 1 /day
The_Mess
12-06-07, 10:58 AM I expect they'll do something conceptually similar to what the Shadowcaster (ToM) got, but (hopefully) not screwed up. That is, you start with some powers that you can use once a day and some you can use more often, and as you advance and get more powerful once/day powers, your old once/day powers become per encounter powers, and eventually become at will.

I doubt they'll do this so straightforward, though (and that's probably best). Some of the references in the released hints make me think that classes won't be keeping powers throughout their career. Some of the Devs have noted that high level characters have hundreds of options, most of which are legacies of earlier days and no longer particularly useful, they just clog up the character sheet, and it's been implied (stated outright?) that things would be cleaner now. I read that as meaning much of the earlier, lower-power options will be lost at higher levels, possibly the way Bo9S does it.
DracoPhoenix
12-06-07, 11:20 AM They could always just take the recharge time variant from UA and go with that...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 12-02-07, 11:16 AM	How do you envision this working? My idea is that there would be three sources of power points: the per-round source, the per-encounter source, and the per-day source. Much as temporary hit points are depleted first when taking damage, per-round power points are depleted first for a power, then per-encounter power points, and finally per-day power points. Outside of combat encounters, only per-round and per-day power points could be used. In addition, for certain purposes, such as the bestow power power and charging cognizance crystals, only per-day power points could be expended. A crude, untested, and not-very-carefully-thought-out schematic I came up with was, roughly, to divide a psion's power points by 3, then take the result as a psion's daily power points, divide that by five for a psion's encounterly power points, and then divide that by five for a psion's roundly power points. So, a psion's power point chart would look like this: Level Daily Encounterly Roundly 1 0 1 0 2 2 1 0 3 4 1 0 4 6 1 0 5 9 2 0 6 12 2 0 7 16 3 1 8 20 4 1 9 24 5 1 10 30 6 1 11 36 7 1 12 42 9 2 13 49 10 2 14 57 12 2 15 65 13 3 16 74 15 3 17 84 17 3 18 94 19 4 19 104 21 4 20 115 23 5 So leaving out the calculation of bonus power points, which I haven't thought of yet, if you're a level 9 telepath, and you're at full strength, and you get into an encounter, you can first manifest 7 pp dominate, first contributing your roundly 1 pp to the cost, then paying the remaining cost with your 5 encounterly pp, then lastly with 1 of your daily pp. Then, the next round, if you want to manifest dominate again, you once again pay 1 roundly pp to the cost, and then pay all of the remaining 6 pp from your daily account. Note: I have the feeling that the above system won't work for some reason, but I'm just posting this as a crude schematic of how psionics' system of variable power costs paid out of a pool could mostly be preserved as a system while fitting the daily/encounterly/roundly system.
hovnarr 12-02-07, 11:39 AM	I'm thinking the day/encounter/round system will replace power points. Each power will be specified for either use type, or may have different distinct uses. For example, knowing Matter Agitation may allow you to cause a small amount of non-typed, small area damage each round. Knowing Energy Missiles may allow you to blast once, forcefully, per encounter. Much like a 3/day psi ability. Astral Construct (and any other summoning effect in non-psionically flavored systems) is another example of something I think will work 1/encounter. Something like Psionic Contingency or Identify could work once per day. In 4th ed, everyone will basically be a warlock. Mechanically speaking. The abilities will be flavored differently, and their power level will determine how often you can use them.
JulesCARV 12-02-07, 04:59 PM	That seems more likely to occur in practice to me, but I'm just trying to think of another way it could be done that kept the idea of a psion drawing on a single, unified pool of power to manifest any of a wide variety of powers, rather than accessing one "layer" of his abilities to manifest weak, cheap powers, access another "layer" to manifest expensive, powerful powers, etc.
Tsuul 12-02-07, 07:17 PM	Why does it have to be a single pool? There are many layers to conscious and subconscious. It's all about choice in flavor wrappings. Psionics has always had a different system for doing things, and historically, all but one system has been a flop; and that working system took two attempts to get right. As long as the system they choose for 4th works, I won't care. If that system is exactly the same as divine and arcane magic, and it works, then it will have added benefits that a separate system could never have. Pure mechanical compatibility.
Racinante 12-03-07, 11:20 AM	Perhaps the powers themselves will be altered to effectively only allow per day, per encounter and per round abilities. Some powers could be used at will and automatically augment to your manifester level. These would normally deal damage, but at a lower level than current powers (and may not affect objects at all). Some of these may be usable in addition to other actions in a round. This type of power would be of no value outside of an encounter (or have no significant game effect outside of combat). Per encounter abilities would be based on a power point pool exclusively and would require augmentation. This allows a limited nova and still requires some resource management. Per day abilities would both require a longer manifestation time (10 minutes or more) and last all day. Ideally, these would not be subject to negation (since they could only be manifest once per day). These could be powers that give damage reduction, bonuses to saves, party bonuses / communication abilities, or permanent item creation, etc.
DracoPhoenix 12-06-07, 07:35 AM	I'm guessing the below is a bit too simple :) L1-3 powers : at will L4-6 powers : 1 / Encounter L7-9 powers : 1 / day This may mean a few powers shift power level, but would at least be a good starting point. The alternative is based off time : concentration / duration in rounds : at will Minutes / 10's of minutes : 1 / Encounter Hours + : 1 /day
The_Mess 12-06-07, 10:58 AM	I expect they'll do something conceptually similar to what the Shadowcaster (ToM) got, but (hopefully) not screwed up. That is, you start with some powers that you can use once a day and some you can use more often, and as you advance and get more powerful once/day powers, your old once/day powers become per encounter powers, and eventually become at will. I doubt they'll do this so straightforward, though (and that's probably best). Some of the references in the released hints make me think that classes won't be keeping powers throughout their career. Some of the Devs have noted that high level characters have hundreds of options, most of which are legacies of earlier days and no longer particularly useful, they just clog up the character sheet, and it's been implied (stated outright?) that things would be cleaner now. I read that as meaning much of the earlier, lower-power options will be lost at higher levels, possibly the way Bo9S does it.
DracoPhoenix 12-06-07, 11:20 AM	They could always just take the recharge time variant from UA and go with that...