Power Attack with Fire Lash(Ps) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Power Attack with Fire Lash(Ps) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mharb
05-31-07, 07:56 PM I think I found an error in the FAQ. It suggests that Power Attack can be used with the Fire Lash Psionic Whip. However the description of Fire Lash in the SRD says that whip requires a ranged touch attack, and not merely a touch attack, as suggested by the question.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm

The lash deals 1d8 points of fire damage to a target within 15 feet on a successful ranged touch attack.

Power attack does not work with ranged attacks.

Because the Pyrokineticist’s Fire Lash creates a whip of
fire that requires only a touch attack, can you apply a Str
bonus to the damage? Can you power attack with this
special weapon?

It would seem so. The wording in the description of this
psi-like ability indicates that you can take advantage of any feat
that would apply to the use of a standard whip. Since one of
those feats is Power Attack, then by reason, you must be able to
apply your Strength bonus to the damage of a fire lash as well.
SlanderPanic
06-01-07, 02:34 PM You're missing the relevant text here, that being, "any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip."

You can Power Attack with a whip, so you can Power Attack with a fire lash.

Having been trained in the use of a whip, I can tell you that it does make sense to be able to apply one's Str bonus to a whip's damage. You can crack a whip with varying degrees of arm strength for different results. I've seen users skilled enough to hit a target as lightly as a feather or hard enough to flay flesh down to the bone. The way a whip works is by building up kinetic energy along a long line and then transferring all that energy, in one instant, the the very tip of the whip, where it transfers to its target and does damage. That's why a whip is a touch attack. That's also why a whip doesn't affect a target wearing sufficiently-heavy armor: the armor absorbs the kinetic energy, preventing it from damaging the flesh underneath. A fire lash may be a different story because it burns in addition to transferring kinetic energy, but that's a DM's call.
CrimsonDeath
06-02-07, 03:32 AM I was under the impression that the Fire Lash dealt damage because it was hot, not because you were swinging it. That's why the Fire Lash is a touch attack. A normal whip is a normal attack against the target's normal AC, not a touch attack. Also note that you need Weapon Finesse to apply your Dexterity modifier to attacks with a normal whip, but the Fire Lash (as a ranged touch attack) uses your Dexterity modifier by default.
SlanderPanic
06-04-07, 05:22 PM I think it's intended to function like a ray that you can also perform whip tricks with. That interpretation makes the most sense to me. It's an ability that works one way, but also synergizes well with other skills you just might have.

I think the next pyro I play will have ranks in Use Magic Device and a wand of arrowmind. Being Medium size and threatening with 15-foot reach would be a fun thing, especially if combined with the Combat Expertise feat tree.
rilem
06-05-07, 06:28 PM I'm pretty sure this was addressed in the FAQ. You can apply Power Attack with Fire Lash, because you can apply the feat with a whip.
Part-Human2
06-05-07, 10:44 PM 3rd edition whips were ranged projectile weapons (you launch the tip at the target). 3.5 edition whips are melee weapons with exceptions. Perhaps they missed changing it when they copied the ability from 3rd to 3.5 edition books.
Lycanthromancer
06-05-07, 11:32 PM Hmm. Surprise, surprise.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mharb 05-31-07, 07:56 PM	I think I found an error in the FAQ. It suggests that Power Attack can be used with the Fire Lash Psionic Whip. However the description of Fire Lash in the SRD says that whip requires a ranged touch attack, and not merely a touch attack, as suggested by the question. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm The lash deals 1d8 points of fire damage to a target within 15 feet on a successful ranged touch attack. Power attack does not work with ranged attacks. Because the Pyrokineticist’s Fire Lash creates a whip of fire that requires only a touch attack, can you apply a Str bonus to the damage? Can you power attack with this special weapon? It would seem so. The wording in the description of this psi-like ability indicates that you can take advantage of any feat that would apply to the use of a standard whip. Since one of those feats is Power Attack, then by reason, you must be able to apply your Strength bonus to the damage of a fire lash as well.
SlanderPanic 06-01-07, 02:34 PM	You're missing the relevant text here, that being, "any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip." You can Power Attack with a whip, so you can Power Attack with a fire lash. Having been trained in the use of a whip, I can tell you that it does make sense to be able to apply one's Str bonus to a whip's damage. You can crack a whip with varying degrees of arm strength for different results. I've seen users skilled enough to hit a target as lightly as a feather or hard enough to flay flesh down to the bone. The way a whip works is by building up kinetic energy along a long line and then transferring all that energy, in one instant, the the very tip of the whip, where it transfers to its target and does damage. That's why a whip is a touch attack. That's also why a whip doesn't affect a target wearing sufficiently-heavy armor: the armor absorbs the kinetic energy, preventing it from damaging the flesh underneath. A fire lash may be a different story because it burns in addition to transferring kinetic energy, but that's a DM's call.
CrimsonDeath 06-02-07, 03:32 AM	I was under the impression that the Fire Lash dealt damage because it was hot, not because you were swinging it. That's why the Fire Lash is a touch attack. A normal whip is a normal attack against the target's normal AC, not a touch attack. Also note that you need Weapon Finesse to apply your Dexterity modifier to attacks with a normal whip, but the Fire Lash (as a ranged touch attack) uses your Dexterity modifier by default.
SlanderPanic 06-04-07, 05:22 PM	I think it's intended to function like a ray that you can also perform whip tricks with. That interpretation makes the most sense to me. It's an ability that works one way, but also synergizes well with other skills you just might have. I think the next pyro I play will have ranks in Use Magic Device and a wand of arrowmind. Being Medium size and threatening with 15-foot reach would be a fun thing, especially if combined with the Combat Expertise feat tree.
rilem 06-05-07, 06:28 PM	I'm pretty sure this was addressed in the FAQ. You can apply Power Attack with Fire Lash, because you can apply the feat with a whip.
Part-Human2 06-05-07, 10:44 PM	3rd edition whips were ranged projectile weapons (you launch the tip at the target). 3.5 edition whips are melee weapons with exceptions. Perhaps they missed changing it when they copied the ability from 3rd to 3.5 edition books.
Lycanthromancer 06-05-07, 11:32 PM	Hmm. Surprise, surprise.