Power Stones, Dorjes, and Psicrystals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Power Stones, Dorjes, and Psicrystals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kyeudo
10-25-07, 09:05 PM I was browsing my XPH the other day, and was looking over the power stones section, when this thought hit me.

A power stone is a chunk of psionicly receptive crystal with a bunch of powers stored in it and a psicrystal is a chunk of psionicly empowered crystal. I then realized there isn't any rule explicitly prohibiting you from making your psicrystal into a power stone, so I thought, why not?

A psicrystal that is a power stone would be a lot better protected than a normal power stone, as it would be its own alarm system, would never get lost, and would be able to tell you exactly what powers it currently stores. Have your psicrystal buy up ranks in Use Psionic Device and it can act as its own caster.

This also led to the idea of also making a psicrystal into a dorje, as the physical difference between a power stone and a dorje is the shape.

Anyone else think this is viable or is this too cheesy?
Novem
10-25-07, 10:12 PM I was browsing my XPH the other day, and was looking over the power stones section, when this thought hit me.

A power stone is a chunk of psionicly receptive crystal with a bunch of powers stored in it and a psicrystal is a chunk of psionicly empowered crystal. I then realized there isn't any rule explicitly prohibiting you from making your psicrystal into a power stone, so I thought, why not?

A psicrystal that is a power stone would be a lot better protected than a normal power stone, as it would be its own alarm system, would never get lost, and would be able to tell you exactly what powers it currently stores. Have your psicrystal buy up ranks in Use Psionic Device and it can act as its own caster.

This also led to the idea of also making a psicrystal into a dorje, as the physical difference between a power stone and a dorje is the shape.

Anyone else think this is viable or is this too cheesy?
I don't know what RAW says on this, but it certainly is a cool concept. It doesn't seem that cheesy, however.
But.. If this is true for those, it's true for Cognizance Crystals. The Metamind might just shoot himself if he got even weaker than the Metamind already is! because anyone with a Craft CC feat could steal yet another of his class abilities...It might actually make Craft Cognizance Crystal worth the feat.
kyeudo
10-26-07, 04:16 PM This could get very interesting. The psion has his Psicrystal, Cognizance Crystal, Power Stone collection, and Dorje selection all condensed into one package that can cast for itself, buff him, and never gets lost. Like a mini, more expensive form of Schism.

Question: How many times can you make one item a Cog Crystal? If you could have one item that was, say, three 5 point Cog Crystals, that could bring even more interesting possiblilities to the table.
Legdiwena
10-26-07, 05:01 PM There is a feat that does this, allowing psicrystal to have a power point pool and known powers.
InkBlot
10-26-07, 06:44 PM Yes, and it's an epic feat. But I'm assuming that when Kyeudo says "cast for itself" he means "activate power storage devices for itself."

A psicrystal that is a power stone ... would be able to tell you exactly what powers it currently stores.
If you mean that the psicrystal would automatically have this knowledge without making any checks or taking any actions, then that's a big assumption. There isn't any evidence to support it. The psicrystal would certainly be able to make the usual psicraft checks to discover this information, however.

Have your psicrystal buy up ranks in Use Psionic Device and it can act as its own caster.
The master's skills overwrites the psicrystals skills. Having the psicrystal take ranks in UPD wouldn't do anything. The master would have to take the ranks for himself, with his own skill points, and the psicrystal would share them.

Also, a psicrystal could do already do this with a normal power stone or dorje (a psicrown might be too big). The only thing this does is put all your eggs in one basket (not always a bad thing), and make it so the psicrystal doesn't have to rely on you to carry around it's bag of dorjes. Another solution would have been to craft the dorjes especially small, and make a tiny little dorje bandolier for the psicrystal.
Novem
10-26-07, 06:47 PM There is a feat that does this, allowing psicrystal to have a power point pool and known powers.

This is different. We know about the Epic feat, Psicrystal Power. We're talking about making Power Stones, Dorjes, and Cognizance Crystals out of Psicrystals.

BTW Kyeudo, one could theoretically do it an infinite number of times.
kyeudo
10-26-07, 11:01 PM If you mean that the psicrystal would automatically have this knowledge without making any checks or taking any actions, then that's a big assumption. There isn't any evidence to support it. The psicrystal would certainly be able to make the usual psicraft checks to discover this information, however.

No, that wasn't what I mean. Its simply that the Psicrystal has to be in existance when it's being imprinted as a power stone, so its psion (who else would encode powers on a psicrystal besides the owner?) should tell it what has been imprinted on it for it to remember. Just have a Sage (Knowledge(psionics)) psicrystal, and it will enjoy keeping track of such stuff.

The master's skills overwrites the psicrystals skills. Having the psicrystal take ranks in UPD wouldn't do anything. The master would have to take the ranks for himself, with his own skill points, and the psicrystal would share them.

Forgot about that. Oh well. Shapers have Use Psionic Device as a class skill anyway. Now this would be an actual reason to buy some ranks.

BTW Kyeudo, one could theoretically do it an infinite number of times.

Cool. We just stole another class feature from the Metamind, and a better version too.
AntiDjinn
10-27-07, 12:30 AM It may be putting too many eggs in one basket. It is useful to have a psicrystal scout or otherwise act remote from you and this would mean also sending your cog crystal, dorje, power stone, and whatnot scuttling away.

Before doing anything like this I would really want the DM's answer to the "What happens if my psicrystal dies?" question. If I get my pet rock back from the dead, are its items functions restored? Do not assume the answer because it isn't in the book.

Craft Cog Crystal, Craft Dorje, and Imprint Stone are called item creation feats for a reason; the output of such a feat is, by definition, an item. When an item is reduced to zero hit points, smashed, sundered, etc., it is simply destroyed. If the item also happens to be a creature (assuming you can even do this) then its function as an item may or may not be restored if the creature is returned from the dead. If your figurine of wondrous power is pulverized casting Resurrect to target the creature it used to become does not bring it back.

Consider also: We have always known that if your psicrystal dies you can get a new one. The pet rock is the benefit of a feat, and you still have the feat. So if it dies, it comes back, just in a manner yet to be revealed by WotC. The same is not true of item feats. The benefit line just says that you can create a given type of item, if you go through the specified process; if you make a dorje and it gets sundered then you need to make a new one, it does not come back into being simply because you have the Craft Dorje feat. If your pet rock dies, and your DM has ruled that a dead psicrystal reforms after 1 week, then that is what happens. If your pet rock also happens to be a Cog crystal, then see what the craft feat has to say about this (nothing) and check also the rules for destroyed items in general. Do not assume it must work in a manner convenient for you because each feat simply does what it does and any rules that combine the results as you describe is strictly in DM's call territory.
kyeudo
10-27-07, 01:06 PM Not every psion uses his psicrystal as a scout, but those that do could still make use of this trick. Those that like it out scouting would only want to imprint a few utility powers, like Knock, on their scout psicrystal, while someone who like to be able to use the psicrystal as a form of expensive psychic cannon would imprint more stuff and keep it close by.
Lycanthromancer
10-27-07, 03:23 PM Chameleon and cloud mind, anyone?
Moosh Nailo
10-27-07, 06:03 PM Doesn't a psicrystal still gain its own skill points as it gains HD, in addition to whatever skills the master has? And even if it doesn't, it can simply take the Open Minded feat, gaining 5 skill points that it can toss into UPD.

And another question, you can theoretically impring as many powers as you want into a single power stone, correct?
kyeudo
10-27-07, 09:07 PM Yep. A powerstone with 1000 powers is the same size as one with a single power too, so space is no problem.
InkBlot
10-27-07, 11:17 PM Doesn't a psicrystal still gain its own skill points as it gains HD, in addition to whatever skills the master has? And even if it doesn't, it can simply take the Open Minded feat, gaining 5 skill points that it can toss into UPD.
It does. It can. But it can't use those ranks. It uses it's master's ranks in place of it's own, even if it's own ranks are higher.

Skills: A psicrystal has the same skill ranks as its owner, except that it has a minimum of 4 ranks each in Spot, Listen, Move Silently, and Search. (Even if its owner has no ranks in these skills, a psicrystal has 4 ranks in each.) A psicrystal uses its own ability modifiers on skill checks.
zzo38computer
10-28-07, 01:59 AM It does. It can. But it can't use those ranks. It uses it's master's ranks in place of it's own, even if it's own ranks are higher.

But, does it get synergy bonuses from its own ranks?
InkBlot
10-28-07, 02:23 AM The psicrystal doesn't have it's own skill ranks. It just has it's own skill points. It can spend those points, but it doesn't have the ranks it buys. It has it's master's ranks instead. The only way it could actually have those ranks it bought is if it could somehow exist without a master.
Moosh Nailo
10-28-07, 03:31 AM How do you know that they can't use their own ranks?

"Skills: A psicrystal has the same skill ranks as its owner"

I don't see how that means a psicrystal cannot get more ranks in varied skills. What if that is just the bare minimum? If its only there to give the psicrystal something to differentiate it from the next pet rock?

On another note, this could really go any way seeing how much care and effort WotC put into psionics, and making the rules clear. Nobody knows the way it is supposed to be. Rules to regain psicrystals, anyone? Didn't think so

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kyeudo 10-25-07, 09:05 PM	I was browsing my XPH the other day, and was looking over the power stones section, when this thought hit me. A power stone is a chunk of psionicly receptive crystal with a bunch of powers stored in it and a psicrystal is a chunk of psionicly empowered crystal. I then realized there isn't any rule explicitly prohibiting you from making your psicrystal into a power stone, so I thought, why not? A psicrystal that is a power stone would be a lot better protected than a normal power stone, as it would be its own alarm system, would never get lost, and would be able to tell you exactly what powers it currently stores. Have your psicrystal buy up ranks in Use Psionic Device and it can act as its own caster. This also led to the idea of also making a psicrystal into a dorje, as the physical difference between a power stone and a dorje is the shape. Anyone else think this is viable or is this too cheesy?
Novem 10-25-07, 10:12 PM	I was browsing my XPH the other day, and was looking over the power stones section, when this thought hit me. A power stone is a chunk of psionicly receptive crystal with a bunch of powers stored in it and a psicrystal is a chunk of psionicly empowered crystal. I then realized there isn't any rule explicitly prohibiting you from making your psicrystal into a power stone, so I thought, why not? A psicrystal that is a power stone would be a lot better protected than a normal power stone, as it would be its own alarm system, would never get lost, and would be able to tell you exactly what powers it currently stores. Have your psicrystal buy up ranks in Use Psionic Device and it can act as its own caster. This also led to the idea of also making a psicrystal into a dorje, as the physical difference between a power stone and a dorje is the shape. Anyone else think this is viable or is this too cheesy? I don't know what RAW says on this, but it certainly is a cool concept. It doesn't seem that cheesy, however. But.. If this is true for those, it's true for Cognizance Crystals. The Metamind might just shoot himself if he got even weaker than the Metamind already is! because anyone with a Craft CC feat could steal yet another of his class abilities...It might actually make Craft Cognizance Crystal worth the feat.
kyeudo 10-26-07, 04:16 PM	This could get very interesting. The psion has his Psicrystal, Cognizance Crystal, Power Stone collection, and Dorje selection all condensed into one package that can cast for itself, buff him, and never gets lost. Like a mini, more expensive form of Schism. Question: How many times can you make one item a Cog Crystal? If you could have one item that was, say, three 5 point Cog Crystals, that could bring even more interesting possiblilities to the table.
Legdiwena 10-26-07, 05:01 PM	There is a feat that does this, allowing psicrystal to have a power point pool and known powers.
InkBlot 10-26-07, 06:44 PM	Yes, and it's an epic feat. But I'm assuming that when Kyeudo says "cast for itself" he means "activate power storage devices for itself." A psicrystal that is a power stone ... would be able to tell you exactly what powers it currently stores. If you mean that the psicrystal would automatically have this knowledge without making any checks or taking any actions, then that's a big assumption. There isn't any evidence to support it. The psicrystal would certainly be able to make the usual psicraft checks to discover this information, however. Have your psicrystal buy up ranks in Use Psionic Device and it can act as its own caster. The master's skills overwrites the psicrystals skills. Having the psicrystal take ranks in UPD wouldn't do anything. The master would have to take the ranks for himself, with his own skill points, and the psicrystal would share them. Also, a psicrystal could do already do this with a normal power stone or dorje (a psicrown might be too big). The only thing this does is put all your eggs in one basket (not always a bad thing), and make it so the psicrystal doesn't have to rely on you to carry around it's bag of dorjes. Another solution would have been to craft the dorjes especially small, and make a tiny little dorje bandolier for the psicrystal.
Novem 10-26-07, 06:47 PM	There is a feat that does this, allowing psicrystal to have a power point pool and known powers. This is different. We know about the Epic feat, Psicrystal Power. We're talking about making Power Stones, Dorjes, and Cognizance Crystals out of Psicrystals. BTW Kyeudo, one could theoretically do it an infinite number of times.
kyeudo 10-26-07, 11:01 PM	If you mean that the psicrystal would automatically have this knowledge without making any checks or taking any actions, then that's a big assumption. There isn't any evidence to support it. The psicrystal would certainly be able to make the usual psicraft checks to discover this information, however. No, that wasn't what I mean. Its simply that the Psicrystal has to be in existance when it's being imprinted as a power stone, so its psion (who else would encode powers on a psicrystal besides the owner?) should tell it what has been imprinted on it for it to remember. Just have a Sage (Knowledge(psionics)) psicrystal, and it will enjoy keeping track of such stuff. The master's skills overwrites the psicrystals skills. Having the psicrystal take ranks in UPD wouldn't do anything. The master would have to take the ranks for himself, with his own skill points, and the psicrystal would share them. Forgot about that. Oh well. Shapers have Use Psionic Device as a class skill anyway. Now this would be an actual reason to buy some ranks. BTW Kyeudo, one could theoretically do it an infinite number of times. Cool. We just stole another class feature from the Metamind, and a better version too.
AntiDjinn 10-27-07, 12:30 AM	It may be putting too many eggs in one basket. It is useful to have a psicrystal scout or otherwise act remote from you and this would mean also sending your cog crystal, dorje, power stone, and whatnot scuttling away. Before doing anything like this I would really want the DM's answer to the "What happens if my psicrystal dies?" question. If I get my pet rock back from the dead, are its items functions restored? Do not assume the answer because it isn't in the book. Craft Cog Crystal, Craft Dorje, and Imprint Stone are called item creation feats for a reason; the output of such a feat is, by definition, an item. When an item is reduced to zero hit points, smashed, sundered, etc., it is simply destroyed. If the item also happens to be a creature (assuming you can even do this) then its function as an item may or may not be restored if the creature is returned from the dead. If your figurine of wondrous power is pulverized casting Resurrect to target the creature it used to become does not bring it back. Consider also: We have always known that if your psicrystal dies you can get a new one. The pet rock is the benefit of a feat, and you still have the feat. So if it dies, it comes back, just in a manner yet to be revealed by WotC. The same is not true of item feats. The benefit line just says that you can create a given type of item, if you go through the specified process; if you make a dorje and it gets sundered then you need to make a new one, it does not come back into being simply because you have the Craft Dorje feat. If your pet rock dies, and your DM has ruled that a dead psicrystal reforms after 1 week, then that is what happens. If your pet rock also happens to be a Cog crystal, then see what the craft feat has to say about this (nothing) and check also the rules for destroyed items in general. Do not assume it must work in a manner convenient for you because each feat simply does what it does and any rules that combine the results as you describe is strictly in DM's call territory.
kyeudo 10-27-07, 01:06 PM	Not every psion uses his psicrystal as a scout, but those that do could still make use of this trick. Those that like it out scouting would only want to imprint a few utility powers, like Knock, on their scout psicrystal, while someone who like to be able to use the psicrystal as a form of expensive psychic cannon would imprint more stuff and keep it close by.
Lycanthromancer 10-27-07, 03:23 PM	Chameleon and cloud mind, anyone?
Moosh Nailo 10-27-07, 06:03 PM	Doesn't a psicrystal still gain its own skill points as it gains HD, in addition to whatever skills the master has? And even if it doesn't, it can simply take the Open Minded feat, gaining 5 skill points that it can toss into UPD. And another question, you can theoretically impring as many powers as you want into a single power stone, correct?
kyeudo 10-27-07, 09:07 PM	Yep. A powerstone with 1000 powers is the same size as one with a single power too, so space is no problem.
InkBlot 10-27-07, 11:17 PM	Doesn't a psicrystal still gain its own skill points as it gains HD, in addition to whatever skills the master has? And even if it doesn't, it can simply take the Open Minded feat, gaining 5 skill points that it can toss into UPD. It does. It can. But it can't use those ranks. It uses it's master's ranks in place of it's own, even if it's own ranks are higher. Skills: A psicrystal has the same skill ranks as its owner, except that it has a minimum of 4 ranks each in Spot, Listen, Move Silently, and Search. (Even if its owner has no ranks in these skills, a psicrystal has 4 ranks in each.) A psicrystal uses its own ability modifiers on skill checks.
zzo38computer 10-28-07, 01:59 AM	It does. It can. But it can't use those ranks. It uses it's master's ranks in place of it's own, even if it's own ranks are higher. But, does it get synergy bonuses from its own ranks?
InkBlot 10-28-07, 02:23 AM	The psicrystal doesn't have it's own skill ranks. It just has it's own skill points. It can spend those points, but it doesn't have the ranks it buys. It has it's master's ranks instead. The only way it could actually have those ranks it bought is if it could somehow exist without a master.
Moosh Nailo 10-28-07, 03:31 AM	How do you know that they can't use their own ranks? "Skills: A psicrystal has the same skill ranks as its owner" I don't see how that means a psicrystal cannot get more ranks in varied skills. What if that is just the bare minimum? If its only there to give the psicrystal something to differentiate it from the next pet rock? On another note, this could really go any way seeing how much care and effort WotC put into psionics, and making the rules clear. Nobody knows the way it is supposed to be. Rules to regain psicrystals, anyone? Didn't think so