PrC comparison Constructor vs. / question [Archive] - Wizards Community

PrC comparison Constructor vs. / question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LQT
06-04-07, 01:29 PM Hi,

After being educated briefly about astral contructs by fellow boardmembers I am going to ask my next question.

Fiendbinder PrC vs. Constructor PrC in conjuring/summoning/constructing things?

So a Fiendbinder can summon/bind etc. some pretty much awesome and gnarly demons with their own special abilities/imminities/resistances

but

How does a Fiendbinder compare against with Constructor PrC? Constructor can put out Astral Constructs fast and so on.

So how do Constructors "pet's"/astral constructs compare with what Fiendbinder can summon/bind? Lets say we put a constructor on right end of the field and a fiendbinder on another end and give them time to prepare.

Will Fiendbinders demons slap Constructors Astral Constructs out of existance or can these Astral constructs actually do something against demons that Fiendbinder can summon (like Marilith demons)?

Thanks in advance for your reply,

LQT
Lycanthromancer
06-04-07, 03:34 PM Fiends are amongst the nastiest things in the game, bar dragons, and even then, you have lots of Su abilities to worry about.

Whereas astral construct is primarily for utility and an ectoplasmic meat-shield. They're not that great for offense (unless you want a committed grappler), but they're awfully nice for defense and battlefield control.

So, it really depends on what your focus is, and what you want out of it.
lears_fool
06-04-07, 05:59 PM Honestly if you're talking about how the bound demons would fare against the constructs you're probably asking the wrong question.

Why?

If I'm a demonbinder or constructor I'm not going to use my 'pet' to fight yours . . my summon's going right for the squishy summoner's butt.

And in a battle between summoners, the winner is the one who can best keep out of the way. :)
Jaid
06-04-07, 06:27 PM of course, a constructor is not really a one-trick pony either. he still has a lot of powers other than astral construct.
TikiMan
06-05-07, 02:52 AM Constructs vs. Fiends would probably be a game of cat and mouse (with the ACs being the cats). A Huge construct with appropriate menu choices has a +40 to grapple and can dish out plenty of constrict/grapple damage. In response, many of the fiends can use teleport to instantly flee (if commanded to), until the construct gets ahold of them again (easy if you are their target). Also note that the construct DR of 15/magic actually works against fiends, who have DR10/good and/or cold iron. Again, with appropriate menu choices, the construct could withstand some serious punishment.

In a pure 'the casters don't attack each other, it's just summon vs. construct' I'd bet that the CR 17 Marilith would have the advantage, but the CR 10 construct could do a lot more then the CR difference would indicate, and may just win with proper ability selection and a little luck. If you compared the resources invested on both sides, the Psion wins even if he loses the fight. :rolleyes: On that note, I'd like to suggest you take a look at the Malconvoker from Complete Scoundrel; it gets the whole 'summons demons' thing, but can also summon devils, and with access to Planer Binding (plus another class ability) it can command Balors and Pit Fiends. All this two levels earlier for only 1 caster level loss too.

Some other things to consider: a simple protection from evil provides near 100% protection from your fiends (dispels and one of the fiends can deal with this, but potions of prot from evil are super cheap). On the other hand, Globe of Invulnerability can do the same to the psion(but doesn't last as long). Note that the constructor PrC is effectivley done as of level 14 (the 10th level ability is now totally not worth the level loss given the 5th level personal construct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) ability), while the Fiendbinder needs to be level 17 (and loses 2 more caster levels, not to mention Overchannel for psions). The power Control Sound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlSound.htm) can totally shut down your ability to command your fiends (and can be passed on to your psicrystal via Solicit Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/solicitPsicrystal.htm)), in addition to your spellcasting ability. The fact that you can only command one or two at a time is a big limitation, where as all constructs can be controlled as free mental actions.

In a fight with plenty of prep time both of the character's summoned monsters would probably be rendered moot and it would come down to normal caster vs. caster combat, at which point it's an infinite spiral of paper-scissors-rock tactics that probably won't go anywhere here on the forums (so say 50/50 chances). If the two were surprised by each other then it would naturally come down to 'he who wins initiative wins the fight', and again, it would probably be caster vs. caster combat with the pets not helping much (globe vs. protection). If instant immunity spells are banned then the fight would be pretty interesting, but I'd have to consider the constructor in mild advantage due to how limited the Fiendbinder is when it comes to actually controlling his fiends.

Unless you're using the Complete Psuckonic version of Astral Construct (only 1 construct out at a time), in which case the Psion probably just kills himself.:bored:

Edit: Just realized two things that would further tip the scales in favor of the shaper. If you have a nice DM you could possibly combine Personal Construct with Enhanced Construction and summon two level 9 constructs as a swift action with Overchannel and Psicrystal Containment (or 3 if you are level 18 or take Practiced Manifester). Also, the astral construct power never actually states you are limited to 9th level constructs, so you could create level 10, 11, 12 etc. constructs with enough PP. I have a document with them on my computer, but sadly lost the link when I had to reformat my computer. I don't suppose the super duper nice person who made them could re-post the link?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LQT 06-04-07, 01:29 PM	Hi, After being educated briefly about astral contructs by fellow boardmembers I am going to ask my next question. Fiendbinder PrC vs. Constructor PrC in conjuring/summoning/constructing things? So a Fiendbinder can summon/bind etc. some pretty much awesome and gnarly demons with their own special abilities/imminities/resistances but How does a Fiendbinder compare against with Constructor PrC? Constructor can put out Astral Constructs fast and so on. So how do Constructors "pet's"/astral constructs compare with what Fiendbinder can summon/bind? Lets say we put a constructor on right end of the field and a fiendbinder on another end and give them time to prepare. Will Fiendbinders demons slap Constructors Astral Constructs out of existance or can these Astral constructs actually do something against demons that Fiendbinder can summon (like Marilith demons)? Thanks in advance for your reply, LQT
Lycanthromancer 06-04-07, 03:34 PM	Fiends are amongst the nastiest things in the game, bar dragons, and even then, you have lots of Su abilities to worry about. Whereas astral construct is primarily for utility and an ectoplasmic meat-shield. They're not that great for offense (unless you want a committed grappler), but they're awfully nice for defense and battlefield control. So, it really depends on what your focus is, and what you want out of it.
lears_fool 06-04-07, 05:59 PM	Honestly if you're talking about how the bound demons would fare against the constructs you're probably asking the wrong question. Why? If I'm a demonbinder or constructor I'm not going to use my 'pet' to fight yours . . my summon's going right for the squishy summoner's butt. And in a battle between summoners, the winner is the one who can best keep out of the way. :)
Jaid 06-04-07, 06:27 PM	of course, a constructor is not really a one-trick pony either. he still has a lot of powers other than astral construct.
TikiMan 06-05-07, 02:52 AM	Constructs vs. Fiends would probably be a game of cat and mouse (with the ACs being the cats). A Huge construct with appropriate menu choices has a +40 to grapple and can dish out plenty of constrict/grapple damage. In response, many of the fiends can use teleport to instantly flee (if commanded to), until the construct gets ahold of them again (easy if you are their target). Also note that the construct DR of 15/magic actually works against fiends, who have DR10/good and/or cold iron. Again, with appropriate menu choices, the construct could withstand some serious punishment. In a pure 'the casters don't attack each other, it's just summon vs. construct' I'd bet that the CR 17 Marilith would have the advantage, but the CR 10 construct could do a lot more then the CR difference would indicate, and may just win with proper ability selection and a little luck. If you compared the resources invested on both sides, the Psion wins even if he loses the fight. :rolleyes: On that note, I'd like to suggest you take a look at the Malconvoker from Complete Scoundrel; it gets the whole 'summons demons' thing, but can also summon devils, and with access to Planer Binding (plus another class ability) it can command Balors and Pit Fiends. All this two levels earlier for only 1 caster level loss too. Some other things to consider: a simple protection from evil provides near 100% protection from your fiends (dispels and one of the fiends can deal with this, but potions of prot from evil are super cheap). On the other hand, Globe of Invulnerability can do the same to the psion(but doesn't last as long). Note that the constructor PrC is effectivley done as of level 14 (the 10th level ability is now totally not worth the level loss given the 5th level personal construct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) ability), while the Fiendbinder needs to be level 17 (and loses 2 more caster levels, not to mention Overchannel for psions). The power Control Sound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlSound.htm) can totally shut down your ability to command your fiends (and can be passed on to your psicrystal via Solicit Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/solicitPsicrystal.htm)), in addition to your spellcasting ability. The fact that you can only command one or two at a time is a big limitation, where as all constructs can be controlled as free mental actions. In a fight with plenty of prep time both of the character's summoned monsters would probably be rendered moot and it would come down to normal caster vs. caster combat, at which point it's an infinite spiral of paper-scissors-rock tactics that probably won't go anywhere here on the forums (so say 50/50 chances). If the two were surprised by each other then it would naturally come down to 'he who wins initiative wins the fight', and again, it would probably be caster vs. caster combat with the pets not helping much (globe vs. protection). If instant immunity spells are banned then the fight would be pretty interesting, but I'd have to consider the constructor in mild advantage due to how limited the Fiendbinder is when it comes to actually controlling his fiends. Unless you're using the Complete Psuckonic version of Astral Construct (only 1 construct out at a time), in which case the Psion probably just kills himself.:bored: Edit: Just realized two things that would further tip the scales in favor of the shaper. If you have a nice DM you could possibly combine Personal Construct with Enhanced Construction and summon two level 9 constructs as a swift action with Overchannel and Psicrystal Containment (or 3 if you are level 18 or take Practiced Manifester). Also, the astral construct power never actually states you are limited to 9th level constructs, so you could create level 10, 11, 12 etc. constructs with enough PP. I have a document with them on my computer, but sadly lost the link when I had to reformat my computer. I don't suppose the super duper nice person who made them could re-post the link?