Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Travis_UI 04-15-07, 11:43 AM	This is a version of the Master of the Unseen Hand (from Complete Warrior) modified for manifesters. The most obvious road block was of course the fact that in psionics, arcane telekinesis was split into three different powers. I'm concerned that the mechanic is somewhat clumsy or awkward, so opinions are welcome. I think overall this class ends up being more powerful than the original MotUH, but not enough to make it unbalanced, I don't think. I am, of course, biased in this regard so feedback would be good. Ultimately I think it could be agreed that the original MotUH was itself a very weak class (especially in the context of typical arcane PrCs) so in that sense an improvement on it isn't uncalled for. Additionally, the prereqs for entering this class are harder than for the MotUH, particularly considering that it requires the manifester to take all three powers associated with arcane telekinesis. I had originally intended to get rid of telekinetic flight (which I wasn't that fond of) and replace it with something else, but I just couldn't think of anything that I found particularly satisfying. The augmentation that was added takes care of my biggest pet peeve with telekinetic flight, which is that it moves so damn slow. The movement augmentation is similar to the one available with the CPsi power psychokinetic weapon. Anyway, I'm really hoping for some additional feedback now that it's finished. Any opinions? Telekinetic Savant My mind is stronger than...you are. Hit Die: d4 Requirements: To qualify to become a Telekinetic Savant, a character must fulfill the following criteria: Skills: Concentration 8 ranks Powers: Telekinetic Force, Telekinetic Thrust, Telekinetic Maneuver BAB: +5 Class Skills: The Telekinetic Savant's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (wis), Concentration (con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (psionics) (int), Psicraft (int) Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Ref Will -------------------------- 1 +1 +0 +0 +2 2 +2 +0 +0 +3 3 +3 +1 +1 +3 4 +4 +1 +1 +4 5 +5 +1 +1 +4 * Level Special Abilities ------------------------------------------------------- 1 Telekinesis, Master of Force 2 Telekinetic Wielder, Sustained Concentration 3 Telekinetic Warrior 4 Improved Violent Thrust, Telekinetic Flight 5 Telekinetic Savant Class Features: Weapon and Armor Proficiency: none Telekinesis (Ex):At first level a Telekinetic Savant unlocks the secret of versatile telekinesis. When a Telekinetic Savant manifests the power telekinetic maneuver, for the duration of the power, the Telekinetic Savant may utilize the maneuver function, telekinetic force, or telekinetic thrust. Each of these addtional uses functions exactly as the power of the same name, affecting a target or targets of up to 300 pounds. A Telekinetic Savant may alternate freely between the use of the telekinetic force and the telekinetic maneuver functions, but using a telekinetic thrust immediately ends the power. If the telekinetic thrust function of this power is used to hurl a creature against a solid surface, the creature takes 1d6 points of damage for every 10 feet that it was hurled. This modified power may be augmented in the following way: Augment: For every additional power point you spend the weight limit increases by 25 pounds. For every additional 50 pounds this power grants a +1 bonus to any maneuver check involving a bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip attempt. Master of Force (Ex): When a Telekinetic Savant manifests telekinetic maneuver he gains an additional +1 to his manifester level for each level achieved in this class. These bonus manifester levels affect any level-dependent variables including range, duration, and power point cap. In addition, telekinetic maneuver is treated as if it had been augmented by one power point for each level of Telekinetic Savant, this augmentation is a reflection of the Telekinetic Savant's mastery and is not deducted from the Telekinetic Savant's power points. This ability stacks with overchannel and similar abilities. Telekinetic Wielder (Ex): This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: References to wizard and sorceror are replaced with manifester, references to caster level are replaced with manifester level, references to MotUH are replaced with Telekinetic Savant, all attacks are modified by a manifester's key ability modifier. A manifester is considered proficient in any weapon wielded through the use of telekinetic maneuver and weapons animated in this fashion threaten adjacent squares for purposes of flanking. Sustained Concentration (Ex): This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: All references to the MotUH are replaced by Telekinetic Savant. Telekinetic Warrior (Ex): This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability "Full Attack Telekinesis" with the following exceptions: All references to the MotUH are replaced by Telekinetic Savant, references to caster level are replaced by manifester level, the last line now reads, "Just as with nontelekinetic attacks, the Telekinetic Savant gains an additional attack for every 5 points of base attack bonus above +1, using manifester level as the base attack bonus. Damage dealt by weapons wielded in this way is modified by the manifester's key ability modifier." Improved Violent Thrust (Ex): This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: References to MotUH are replaced with Telekinetic Savant, references to caster level are replaced with manifester level, references to wizard or sorceror are replaced by manifester, weapon attack and damage rolls are modified by a manifester's key ability modifier. Telekinetic Flight: This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: References to the MotUH are replaced with Telekinetic Savant, references to caster level are replaced with manifester level. Additionally the augmentation for telekinetic maneuver is changed to the following: Augment: For every additional power point you spend the weight limit increases by 25 pounds and creatures or objects manipulated by this power may be moved an additional 5 feet per move action. For every additional 50 pounds this power grants a +1 bonus to any maneuver check involving a bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip attempt. Telekinetic Savant (Ex): At fifth level the Telekinetic Savant taps into his full potential to manipulate the world around him. The range on telekinetic maneuver becomes long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level). The augmentation for the Telekinetic Savant's telekinetic maneuver is changed to the following: Augment 1. If you spend 2 additional power points, this power may affect two independent targets using the telekinetic force function of this power. Each target can be moved up to its maximum distance as one move action and each can be moved in a different direction so long as they stay in range. 2. If you spend 4 additional power points, this power may affect two independent targets using the telekinetic maneuver function of this power. If the you choose to target and wield two different weapons, each weapon may be moved up to its maximum distance as one move action and each may make a single attack as one standard action. Each weapon benefits from your telekinetic warrior ability and you can make a full attack with each weapon as one full round action, however if you use a move action for one weapon you cannot use a full round action with the other. 3. If you spend 6 additional power points, the number of creatures or objects that can be targeted by the telekinetic thrust function of this power is one per manifester level with no maximum limit. These augmentations are cumulative although the you may still only utilize one of the power's three functions at any given time. In addition, for every 2 additional power points you spend to achieve these effects, this power's save DC increases by 1. 4. For every additional power point you spend the weight limit increases by 25 pounds and creatures or objects manipulated by this power may be moved an additional 5 feet per move action. For every additional 50 pounds this power grants a +1 bonus to any maneuver check involving a bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip attempt.
Travis_UI 04-17-07, 11:26 AM	No one has anything at all? Even just some criticism or validation of the mechanics I've employed here would be helpful.
smilingcyclops2002 04-17-07, 08:19 PM	Good job. I agree with you on several points. The original PrC from Complete Warrior was underpowered and not attractive to casters. I considered what it would take to revamp the class for psions, and lo! You were two steps ahead of me (you time hopping nomad). Suggestions/questions: What about manifesting levels? Does the TS continue to learn powers every level and gain more PP? I would vote heartily yes. why not make the "master of force" skill apply to all tk powers instead of only the class-given? BAB: you've got the progression for a warrior-base. Even though it would help out the mental attack rolls, the progression is a bit unbalancing for a caster class. Go +0/+1/+2/+2/+3 BAB requirement: usually, you don't see BAB requirements for casters. Stick with the reqirement for concentration, place it at 8 or 9 (so entry is at 5 or 6). Not a requirement, but it makes things pretty. You could also put in a feat requirement if you're worried about balance. Maybe Psionic endowment ?(big question mark) TK flight: the original MotUH has one additional flyer per three levels, meaning at min I assume that the "telekinetic warrior" is the MotUH's 'Full attack telekinesis"? Keep your title, it's way cooler. What about the MotUH's "fling skyward" ability? You don't seem to address it, and the PrC needs some extra 'zing' to make it worthwhile--the last ability in any PrC needs to be way awesome in order to entice players into the class, as well as something to look forward to. Think Jean Grey in xmen 3, because that's what we're making here. (Ok, maybe she was epic level). Possible ideas to run through your noodle: TK skill use: use your tk power to enhance your physically-based skill checks. Any check with Str or Dex can be used from afar with your "Telekinesis" ability. Alternatively, you can replace your str or dex bonus with your int bonus by using PP equal to the amount of bonus. (So your jumps become longer, your swims swimmier, your open lock checks...lockier.) If you do this, you may want to expand the skill offerings a bit. But, don't go overboard...otherwise it'll nerf the lurk and other psi-rogue-y classes. TK opportunity: Use weapons/chairs/bodies/ whatever you're using as a weapon with "tk wielder" to perform attacks of opportunity. Big question is, what do you want the threatened space to be? Either define it as the squares where the weapon is, or use the MothUH's definition: 20 feet (radius). Pretty awesome. Give the power extra bite if you dare by making the number of attacks of opportunity you can perform in a round equal to your int bonus. that last bit may have been too much, but it's a thought... I really like this class you've cooked up, I'll be interspersing TS levels between my "Fabricationist" shaper levels (also from the boards). I don't know, I'm a shaper that loves to use TK thrust. I guess he's 'power curious." Sorry I didn't have more critiques, I like what you have. I can't wait to see what you cook up!
Travis_UI 04-18-07, 01:29 AM	What about manifesting levels? Does the TS continue to learn powers every level and gain more PP? I would vote heartily yes. As it's written, it doesn't. This is in keeping with the MotUH which entails no actual caster levels. It is written with essentially a wild surge mechanic that stacks with similar mechanics (such as overchannel) so that it has the effect of automatic scaling that the MotUH has with the arcane spell. However, it has an advantage insomuch as psionic scaling is capped like arcane scaling is, so you get to lift more for free. The lack of "true" manifester levels is probably the single greatest balancer to the class, since the loss of additional powers is a biggie. why not make the "master of force" skill apply to all tk powers instead of only the class-given? I could, but it would be redundant. The telekinesis power granted to the TS at first level effectively combines all three powers into one, telekinetic maneuver. The way that the ability is written accounts for the extra 2 power points that telekinetic maneuver costs over force or thrust, and alters the base weight limit to include 2 points of augmentation. Effectively, there is no reason to ever manifest one of the other two powers, they are prereqs only to make it more of a sacrifice to enter the class. BAB: you've got the progression for a warrior-base. Even though it would help out the mental attack rolls, the progression is a bit unbalancing for a caster class. Go +0/+1/+2/+2/+3 The BAB actually just mirrors the MotUH. I'm honestly not sure why the MotUH gets a good BAB, all of the telekinetic attacks are made using caster/manifester level as a substitute for BAB. But I figured, what the hell. I'm certainly not chained to the good BAB, but it is kind of fun. BAB requirement: usually, you don't see BAB requirements for casters. Stick with the reqirement for concentration, place it at 8 or 9 (so entry is at 5 or 6). Not a requirement, but it makes things pretty. You could also put in a feat requirement if you're worried about balance. Maybe Psionic endowment ?(big question mark) The BAB requirement is something I added, it wasn't part of the MotUH. I added it, actually, because it seemed like a fair requirement for a class that awards a full BAB. The concentration requirement is 8 so that the minimum level would be 5th, theoretically, but that's just window dressing. In reality, any psion, at least, is unlikely to get a BAB of +5 by level 5, and it's impossible to get telekinetic maneuver, a 4th level power, before 7th level. Given that you have to blow three powers (literally blow, since two of them subsequently become useless) to enter this class, I don't feel like it really needs a feat. TK flight: the original MotUH has one additional flyer per three levels, meaning at min This seems like it was maybe cut short? Anyway, this ability more or less mirrors the MotUH ability of the same name. The difference is that the addition to the augmentation means you can use it to fly faster than 20ft/move action. (Added bonus, you can also move weapons you're wielding faster as well.) I assume that the "telekinetic warrior" is the MotUH's 'Full attack telekinesis"? Keep your title, it's way cooler. Exactly, and thank you. I thought my title was cooler too. I also added here the damage bonus based on key ability modifier. Although the MotUH modifies weapon damage inflicted by telekinetic thrust with int or cha modifiers, there is no damage modifier on weapons wielded telekinetically. Given the huge amount of damage that can be caused by an effective telekinetic thrust, this modifier for wielded weapons is nice but hardly game breaking in the least. I'm not sure why the MotUH doesn't have it. What about the MotUH's "fling skyward" ability? You don't seem to address it, and the PrC needs some extra 'zing' to make it worthwhile--the last ability in any PrC needs to be way awesome in order to entice players into the class, as well as something to look forward to. Think Jean Grey in xmen 3, because that's what we're making here. (Ok, maybe she was epic level). Fling skyward is theatric, to be sure, but completely useless for a manifester. The arcane version of telekinetic thrust requires that something (or someone) thrown be thrown at something else. The psionic version of telekinetic thrust has no such requirement. In other words, a psion can already use this power to fling creatures straight up into the air. I honestly think that the new augmentation is much, much better than fling skyward. Being able to target two different creatures with telekinetic maneuver or wield two weapons with full iterative attacks will make a TS a very effective warrior indeed, with minimum power points expended. The augment for thrust is useless until at least a manifester level of 16, but then you start ignoring the 15 target limit and it could get very, very fun. (Incidentally, speaking of iterative attacks....has anyone else noticed that the BAB based on caster level for the MotUH, and consequently, manifester level for this class, is not capped at 20? Normal BAB progression stops there so that iterative attacks stop there, epic attack bonus doesn't add attacks. But theoretically a caster/manifester level of 30 should result in 6 attacks, etc.) Anyway, I think the ability to effect more targets at once is more Jean Greyish than being able to fling them straight up, which a psion can do anyway. Possible ideas to run through your noodle: TK skill use: use your tk power to enhance your physically-based skill checks. Any check with Str or Dex can be used from afar with your "Telekinesis" ability. Alternatively, you can replace your str or dex bonus with your int bonus by using PP equal to the amount of bonus. (So your jumps become longer, your swims swimmier, your open lock checks...lockier.) If you do this, you may want to expand the skill offerings a bit. But, don't go overboard...otherwise it'll nerf the lurk and other psi-rogue-y classes. TK opportunity: Use weapons/chairs/bodies/ whatever you're using as a weapon with "tk wielder" to perform attacks of opportunity. Big question is, what do you want the threatened space to be? Either define it as the squares where the weapon is, or use the MothUH's definition: 20 feet (radius). Pretty awesome. Give the power extra bite if you dare by making the number of attacks of opportunity you can perform in a round equal to your int bonus. that last bit may have been too much, but it's a thought... I actually kind of like the sound of both of these. I'm way too tired right now to think about it critically, but what would you have in mind for a specific mechanic? More importantly, where would you put them in the progression? What would the trade off be? I had honestly been trying to think of something to replace telekinetic flight all together, but I was satisfied with it once I wrote in a way to increase the speed. I'm still open to ideas though. Thanks for taking the time!!
Travis_UI 04-19-07, 12:04 PM	Question - Would it overpower the capstone augmentation to change it to read: 1. For every 2 additional power points spent, this power may affect an additional independent target using the telekinetic force function of this power. Each target can be moved up to its maximum distance as one move action and each can be moved in a different direction so long as they stay in range. 2. For every 4 additional power points spent, this power may affect an additional independent target using telekinetic maneuver function of this power. If the manifester chooses to target and wield more than one weapon using this function, each weapon may be moved up to its maximum distance as one move action and each may make a single attack as one standard action. Each weapon benefits from your telekinetic warrior ability and you can make a full attack with each weapon as one full round action, however if you use a move action for one weapon you are limited to one move action and one standard action for each targeted weapon. This restriction applies equally to use of the maneuver function on a creature directly. 3. If you spend at least 6 additional power points, the number of creatures or objects that can be targeted by the telekinetic thrust function of this power is one per manifester level with no maximum limit. I know that the augmention is wordy as it is. The problem is that I feel that the combat mechanic enabled by this augmentation warrants clarification. Any other opinions?
Travis_UI 04-24-07, 02:30 PM	Ok, last bump on this before I give up getting any feedback at all. At this point I'm just looking for at least some validation on the mechanic that's being employed to combine the powers and perhaps some impressions on the capstone (the version that's currently in the PrC and the proposal in my last post). I mean, obviously I don't need feedback to present the class to my DM and move on from there, but it's always nice to get a sense of what objective opinions are.