Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Travis_UI 03-23-07, 04:25 AM	Telekinetic Savant My mind is stronger than...you are. Hit Die: d4 Requirements: To qualify to become a Telekinetic Savant, a character must fulfill the following criteria: Skills: Concentration 8 Powers: Telekinetic Force, Telekinetic Thrust, Telekinetic Maneuver BAB: +5 Class Skills: The Telekinetic Savant's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (wis), Concentration (con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (psionics) (int), Psicraft (int) Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort Ref Will -------------------------- 1 +1 +0 +0 +2 2 +2 +0 +0 +3 3 +3 +1 +1 +3 4 +4 +1 +1 +4 5 +5 +1 +1 +4 * Level Special Abilities ------------------------------------------------------- 1 Telekinesis, Master of Force 2 Telekinetic Wielder, Sustained Concentration 3 Telekinetic Warrior 4 Improved Violent Thrust, Telekinetic Flight 5 Telekinetic Savant Class Features: Weapon and Armor Proficiency: none Telekinesis (Ex):At first level a Telekinetic Savant unlocks the secret of versatile telekinesis. When a Telekinetic Savant manifests the power telekinetic maneuver, for the duration of the power, the Telekinetic Savant may utilize the maneuver function, telekinetic force, or telekinetic thrust. Each of these addtional uses functions exactly as the power of the same name, affecting a target or targets of up to 300 pounds. A Telekinetic Savant may alternate freely between the use of the telekinetic force and the telekinetic maneuver functions, but using a telekinetic thrust immediately ends the power. This modified power may be augmented in the following way: Augment: For every additional power point you spend the weight limit increases by 25 pounds. For every additional 50 pounds this power grants a +1 bonus to any maneuver check involving a bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip attempt. Master of Force (Ex): When a Telekinetic Savant manifests telekinetic maneuver he gains an additional +1 to his manifester level for each level achieved in this class. These bonus manifester levels affect any level-dependent variables including range, duration, and power point cap. In addition, telekinetic maneuver is treated as if it had been augmented by one power point for each level of Telekinetic Savant, this augmentation is a reflection of the Telekinetic Savant's mastery and is not deducted from the Telekinetic Savant's power points. This ability stacks with overchannel and similar abilities. Telekinetic Wielder (Ex): This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: References to wizard and sorceror are replaced with manifester, references to caster level are replaced with manifester level, references to MotUH are replaced with Telekinetic Savant, all attacks are modified by a manifester's key ability modifier. A manifester is considered proficient in any weapon wielded through the use of telekinesis. Sustained Concentration (Ex): This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: All references to the MotUH are replaced by Telekinetic Savant. Telekinetic Warrior (Ex): This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: All references to the MotUH are replaced by Telekinetic Savant, references to caster level are replaced by manifester level, the last line now reads, "Just as with nontelekinetic attacks, the Telekinetic Savant gains an additional attack for every 5 points of base attack bonus above +1, using manifester level as the base attack bonus. Damage dealt by weapons wielded in this way is modified by the manifester's key ability modifier." Improved Violent Thrust (Ex): This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: References to wizard and sorceror are replaced with manifester, references to caster level are replaced with manifester level. Additionally the augmentation for telekinetic maneuver is changed to the following: Augment: For every additional power point you spend the weight limit increases by 25 pounds and creatures or objects manipulated by this power may be moved an additional 5 feet per move action. For every additional 50 pounds this power grants a +1 bonus to any maneuver check involving a bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip attempt. Telekinetic Flight: This functions exactly the same as the Master of the Unseen Hand ability of the same name with the following exceptions: References to MotUH are replaced with Telekinetic Savant, references to caster level are replaced with manifester level, references to MotUH are replaced with Telekinetic Savant, weapon damage is modified by a manifester's key ability modifier. Telekinetic Savant (Ex): At fifth level the Telekinetic Savant taps into his full potential to manipulate the world around him. The range on telekinetic maneuver becomes long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level). The augmentation for the Telekinetic Savant's telekinetic maneuver is changed to the following: Augment 1. If you spend 2 additional power points, this power may affect two independent targets using the telekinetic force function of this power. 2. If you spend 4 additional power points, this power may affect two independent targets using telekinetic maneuver functions of this power. If the manifester chooses to target and wield two different weapons using maneuver, each weapon benefits from his telekinetic warrior ability and he can make a full attack with each weapon as one full round action. 3. If you spend 6 additional power points, the number of creatures or objects that can be targeted by the telekinetic thrust function of this power is one per manifester level with no maximum limit. These augmentations are cumulative although the you may still only utilize one of the power's three functions at any given time. In addition, for every 2 additional power points you spend to achieve these effects, this power's save DC increases by 1. 4. For every additional power point you spend the weight limit increases by 25 poundsand creatures or objects manipulated by this power may be moved an additional 5 feet per move action. For every additional 50 pounds this power grants a +1 bonus to any maneuver check involving a bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip attempt. This is a modified version of the Master of the Unseen Hand from Complete Warrior that I'm cooking up for manifesters. Because psionic telekinesis was split into three different powers it's pretty much impossible for a manifester to qualify for the MotUH as it's written. I'm looking for both feedback and help on this little project. For those that don't have CW and aren't familiar with the class, I apologize for the references to the MotUH but I'm not sure how much (if any) of CW is OGC and how much of a PrC from that source I'm allowed to post publicly. First of all, for those who wince at a total loss of manifester levels let me tell you that this is being designed for a gestalt character. The manifester levels will be made up on the other side of the build. I'm interested to see what people think of the manifester level loss regardless, as a matter of balance, but I'm not interested in creating a class that actually entails additional manifester levels. Second, as you can see, the class is missing it's last two abilities. I've always thought that the telekinetic flight ability was pretty lame, I'm not particularly interested in using it, but I'm not really coming up with anything that seems terribly balanced to replace it. As for the MotUH's fifth level ability, it's completely worthless to a manifester because unlike the spell version of telekinetic thrust, the psionic version doesn't require that objects or creatures thrown by the power be targeted at something else, they can already be flung skyward. Again, I'm having trouble thinking of something that is both balanced and appropriate. Third, some things that I've been thinking about and trying to figure out how to make workable (read: balanced) include: Something that speeds up the telekinetic movement to faster than 20ft per round. A way to target multiple objects with telekinetic force. A way to engage in two-or-more-weapon fighting with telekinetic wielder/warrior. For any of these, but particularly those things that would involve targeting more objects for a sustained period of time, I thought perhaps a greater DC concentration check might work. To manifest another power while concentrating using sustained concentration requires a concentration check with a DC equal to the save DC for the telekinesis effect. I was thinking that for every additional object that telekinesis is used on (other than with thrust) would require a concentration check equal to the save DC + 5. This would be cumulative, with any failure ending the power. So if two objects were being manipulated by TK force it would be the save DC + 5 to manipulate the second object, adding a third would force a second check at the save DC + 10, etc., to a maximum number of objects or weapons equal to the TS class levels. Buuut, this may just be wishful thinking on my part, I really don't trust my perspective on whether or not that's at all balanced. Any help, constructive criticism, or advice would be most welcome here!
Travis_UI 03-25-07, 04:40 PM	Seriously? No one has anything to contribute to this? Please?
fuzzyrabbitstrikesback 03-28-07, 12:33 PM	As fate would have it, I was mulling the idea of a Kineticist focusing on Telekinesis, and immediately began to ponder how to convert the Master of the Unseen Hand to psionics. You have a very good start here, and I'd be happy to help you out in my free time. Alright, I'll try to lend what expertise I have (if any). 1a) The 1st-level Telekinesis ability is definitely a necessity, but I think the wording needs to be cleaned up a little. Since all the Telekinetic powers can be augmented, you would lose out on 2 pp if you switch from Maneuver to Force or Thrust as it stands now. For example, when you manifest Telekinetic Maneuver and then switch to Telekinetic Force, what's the weight limit: 250 lb (base cost of 5 pp + 0 pp augmentation) or 300 lb (base cost of 5 pp + 2 pp augmentation? Some clarification stating that the Force and Thrust modes operate based on how many Power Points you spent when you manifested Telekinetic Maneuver. 1b) Also, the name could use a bit of pizzazz...Unfortunately all I can come up with right now is "Unified Telekinesis". 2) A way to target multiple objects with telekinetic force. A way to engage in two-or-more-weapon fighting with telekinetic wielder/warrior. I had a great way to do this with the feat Chain Power from the XPH. Unfortunately, upon further inspection it only applies to powers that have a single target and deal energy damage. So that idea is down the drain. However, while looking at this I noticed Twin Power. This got me thinking: why not give the Telekinetic Savant Twin Power as a bonus feat or an ability that works basically the same as Twin Power, but only when manifesting Telekinetic Maneuver/Force/Thrust. The ability would have to stipulate that the Savant doesn't need to invest any more time concentrating than if he were to not Twin his Telekinesis. In fact, what do you think of pushing Full Attack Telekinesis back to Savant 4, putting the Twinned Telekinesis ability at 3rd. Then build off the twinned concept. At 4th level, the cost of using Twinned Telekinesis could be reduced by 2 (costing only 4pp instead of the 6 pp as normal for Twin Power). Finally, at 5th level, the Savant could master Twinned Telekinesis, giving him a final 2pp cost reduction and allowing him to apply the effects of Twinned Telekinesis without expending his Psionic Focus. Of course, that may be a bit too good. A smaller addition could simply be keeping Full Attack Telekinesis at 3rd, regular Twinned Telekinesis at 4th, and giving both a 2pp cost reduction and the ability to use it without expending your focus at 5th. Well, that's all I've got for the time being. Keep up the good work and I'll chime in later once I've thought about it more.
Travis_UI 03-28-07, 08:11 PM	1a) The 1st-level Telekinesis ability is definitely a necessity, but I think the wording needs to be cleaned up a little. Since all the Telekinetic powers can be augmented, you would lose out on 2 pp if you switch from Maneuver to Force or Thrust as it stands now. For example, when you manifest Telekinetic Maneuver and then switch to Telekinetic Force, what's the weight limit: 250 lb (base cost of 5 pp + 0 pp augmentation) or 300 lb (base cost of 5 pp + 2 pp augmentation? Some clarification stating that the Force and Thrust modes operate based on how many Power Points you spent when you manifested Telekinetic Maneuver. I agree that the language needs to be cleaned up, but this was the best I've come up with so far. Notice, though, that included in the description for telekinesis is the weight limit of targets, 300 pounds. The modified power accounts for augmenting both telekinetic force and thrust by two points. IIRC augmentation on those powers only impacts the weight limit of the target or targets. Other thoughts would be welcome.
fuzzyrabbitstrikesback 03-28-07, 11:40 PM	Travis_UI - My bad on that ability. I had created my own version of this ability and the wording differed in small but significant ways. You're right, it works as it stands. There's one thing that I do want to clarify though: since the Telekinesis ability is keyed off of Telekinetic Maneuver, but the Savant has the ability to "alternate freely between the use of the telekinetic force and the telekinetic maneuver functions", am I to assume that he could manifest Telekinetic Maneuver (augmented or not) but immediately use it as Telekinetic Force? Also, I'm working on an ability that will allow the Savant to affect twice the number of targets with his telekinesis by paying an additional 6 pp, similar to Chain Power but without the (I think) restriction to target the same creature/object. If all goes well, it and a small upgrade to it could replace Telekinetic Flight/Fling Skyward. I'll post a rough outline of it tomorrow. - Edit - Ok, so here's what I've cooked up to replace Telekinetic flight and Fling skyward. Natural Telekinesis (Psi-like): The telekinetic savant has nearly mastered his art. Moving things with his mind alone is as easy for him as moving his arm. At 4th level, the telekinetic savant gains the ability to manifest far hand at will as a psi-like ability. Your manifester level for this ability is equal to your manifester level for telekinetic maneuver. Two-Pronged Telekinesis (Ex): The telekinetic savant has reached the pinnacle of achievement. At 5th level, the telekinetic savant is able to double the potency of his telekinetic abilities. Whenever the telekinetic savant manifests telekinetic maneuver, he can augment it in the following way. Augment: If you spend 6 additional power points, the number of creatures or objects you can target with this power is doubled. When using this augmentation, the amount of concentration to maintain and direct the powers remains the same as normal. You cannot mimic two different telekinetic powers at once, i.e. you cannot use one branch as telekinetic force and the other as telekinetic maneuver. If you wield more than one weapon via Telekinetic wielder, you may make one full attack routine with each weapon as a full-round action. (Note: I’m visualizing this as something akin to Split Ray for telekinesis. By investing less in the telekinesis itself, the savant can affect more targets. So that means he could essentially wield two weapons via Telekinetic wielder, lift two boulders at the same time, etc. It might be problematic when combined with Thrust and Imp. Violent Thrust, though. That’s a lot of damage that is potentially reusable every few turns. Otherwise, I feel that the essence of the ability works great as a PrC capstone ability. It both provides a way to wield two weapons (each one capable of making a full attack, no less!) Thoughts?
Hida Reju 03-29-07, 09:41 AM	One thought on the missing ability is to grant a deflection bonus to AC as an inmediate action to any target within 60ft of you. Telekinetic shield: As an immediate action you may spend 5 PP and expend your psionc focus to grant a Deflection bonus to AC equal to twice your Telekinetic Savant lvl to any target that is within 60 ft. This bonus lasts Until the beginning of your next turn or the end of the turn which ever is longer.
fuzzyrabbitstrikesback 03-29-07, 03:24 PM	Hida Reju - Your Telekinetic shield idea is actually pretty interesting. At the very least, it would allow the Savant to be more of a team player. I don't particularly like the activation method, though. Being usable at will seems as though it might be a bit too useful. Remember, the 4th level power is just supposed to replace Telekinetic flight, which provides an ability that (for arcane casters) is quite easy to obtain and thus a trivial ability. Making someone a lot harder to hit each turn while still using Telekinetic forms seems a bit much. Take this with a grain of salt, though, as this could just be a knee-jerk reaction on my part. Still, what do you think about making it usable a number of times per day equal to either your primary manifesting modifier or your levels in Telekinetic Savant? It would only require an immediate action, though; no spending power points or blowing focus. Also, what does anyone and everyone think of Natural Telekinesis and Two-Pronged Telekinesis?
Travis_UI 03-30-07, 01:26 AM	There's one thing that I do want to clarify though: since the Telekinesis ability is keyed off of Telekinetic Maneuver, but the Savant has the ability to "alternate freely between the use of the telekinetic force and the telekinetic maneuver functions", am I to assume that he could manifest Telekinetic Maneuver (augmented or not) but immediately use it as Telekinetic Force? That is the intent of the modification. Basically this puts telekinetic maneuver on par with arcane telekinesis, except that it's medium range instead of long range, but has the advantage of no maximum weight allowance and the augmentable bonuses. Considering the psion still has to blow three powers and at least one level of a prc to get this modification, I don't feel too badly about those psionic advantages. Natural Telekinesis (Psi-like): The telekinetic savant has nearly mastered his art. Moving things with his mind alone is as easy for him as moving his arm. At 4th level, the telekinetic savant gains the ability to manifest far hand at will as a psi-like ability. Your manifester level for this ability is equal to your manifester level for telekinetic maneuver. This is flavorful, but I'm honestly not sure how practical it is. Even when you account for the fact that psi-like abilities are manifested as though fully augmented this is still a pretty weak ability and ultimately doesn't add anything to the Savant's tactical capabilities, all of which are centered around the telekinesis modification. If I was going to lean towards anything to this effect I think I would at least make it telekinetic force as a psi-like ability. Because the modified telekinesis granted by this class is keyed off of maneuver, not force, such an ability would not grant this class it's big gun at will for free, but it would at least show some real mastery over manipulating matter with the mind. Two-Pronged Telekinesis (Ex): The telekinetic savant has reached the pinnacle of achievement. At 5th level, the telekinetic savant is able to double the potency of his telekinetic abilities. Whenever the telekinetic savant manifests telekinetic thrust, he can augment it in the following way. Augment: If you spend 6 additional power points, the number of creatures or objects you can target with this power is doubled. When using this augmentation, the amount of concentration to maintain and direct the powers remains the same as normal. You cannot mimic two different telekinetic powers at once, i.e. you cannot use one branch as telekinetic force and the other as telekinetic maneuver. If you wield more than one weapon via Telekinetic wielder, you may make one full attack routine with each weapon as a full-round action. I agree that this is a hell of a power as a capstone, but it might just be too much. The potential damage with telekinetic thrust, even without the effect of improved thrust, is just huge. Doubling the objects means up to 30 different weapons that can be launched with a single thought. I really, really like the idea of two-weapon fighting with telekinetic wielder, but I'm even uncertain as to how balanced that is in the end if the Savant can make a full attack with both weapons. If anything, I would at least say that the cost of this augmentation ought to be about the cost of doubling the weight limit. Since the weight limit starts at 300 pounds with the modification, that would require a 12 point augmentation, unless my math is off. That's probably too much, but it's just might gut reaction to the idea of tossing around 30 weapons at a time. On top of that, I remain convinced that there ought to be a greater concentration DC to deal with more than the standard number of targets. All of this could just be me overcompensating against my tendency to embrace too much power, or it could be not enough to balance this kind of capstone, I'd love to get some others to weigh in on this. Even if we can reach an agreement, I don't feel like two constitutes a consensus, you know? As for the ability to generate a deflection field as an immediate action, it feels simultaneously over and underwhelming. Overwhelming by virtue of the fact that it could grant up to a +10 deflection bonus to AC, which I'm pretty sure is an epic sized deflection bonus. Underwhelming just because it requires such an investment (pp, focus, and the swift/immediate action for the round). Ultimately it seems like there almost has to be better things to do with that swift/immediate action, it would certainly often be counterproductive to hang on to it in anticipation of throwing up a shield. All that being said, I think this does open up a different side of the Telekinetic Savant, which is to say that force isn't always offensive, and perhaps a tactical class should deal in both sides of a battle. I'm just not sure this is the way.
fuzzyrabbitstrikesback 03-30-07, 02:03 AM	Travis_UI - 1) Thanks for the clarification of the 1st-level ability. 2) On Natural Telekinesis - I'm glad to hear that you like the flavor component of the power. It seems to me that if he's investing so much into this area of expertise that the simplest forms of it should become no harder than lifting his arm. As for practicality, you're spot on: it doesn't add to the Savant's tactical prowess. In fact, I made sure of it. Keep in mind that it is replacing Telekinetic Flight. For the MotUH, it is nigh useless, as any caster worth his salt will have some form of flight (such as, say, the Fly spell) that he can cast on himself and his party members. In fact, since only the Nomad gets access to a low-level flight spell, it could be argued that Telekinetic Flight is actually worthwhile for a Savant! I agree with you, though, and think that if we should concoct a better ability to replace it with. With that in mind, stop and look at what Telekinetic Flight does: it is tactical in the defensive/utility way. Not offense. Natural Telekinesis can be used for all sorts of roleplaying ventures while still being very useful for dungeon romps and high court intrigue. I can envision a battle-hardened Savant staring down his opponent while he uses Natural Telekinesis to unsheathe the sword on his back. Put bluntly, I don't feel that the Savant's second 4th-level ability should be offensive in nature. Considering he gets Full Attack Telekinesis, Imp. Violent Thrust, and some sort of capstone ability, I think it is a necessity to keep it a utility power. 3) On Two-Pronged Telekinesis - I'm up in the air about this ability. On the one hand, I think the Savant should be able to T-wield 2 weapons at once or T-grapple two guys simultaneously. On the other hand, I just calculated the average damage of one Two-Pronged Thrust at ML 15 - a whopping 225 dmg spread over 30 targets (I used 30 arrows as my base)! What would you think of the ability if it would only affect Force and Maneuver? In this vein, I think that if we allowed it like that, allowing 2 T-wielded weapons to both make full attacks wouldn't be that bad. After all, he could just hurl 10+ against a wall/off a cliff/into each other/etc. -Edit- Also, the Two-Pronged Telekinesis augment is keyed onto Telekinetic Maneuver, not Thrust. A small but important distinction to make. I went back and fixed my previous post as well.
Travis_UI 04-02-07, 04:36 PM	I have added the fifth level capstone ability, let me know what you think of it (too much, too little, etc.). I'm still undecided about the fourth level ability...
Hida Reju 04-02-07, 05:04 PM	Well the shield ability I was working on is sound for two reasons. 1. It uses the immediate action of the person up. 2. It requires the expendature of your psionic focus. You can never use it more than once a turn and if you have used your swift or immediate action up then its not available. If the bonus is too high then make it equal to Telekinetic Savant class lvl as max. As far as replacing flight as an ability as being trivial sure but the bonus only lasts one round. Hell you could reduce it to one attack if you want. I just wanted to make it more of a team player ability.