Psicrystal Affinity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psicrystal Affinity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Parsalin
10-03-07, 09:06 AM Hello, this may very well be a dumb question... but.

Can this feat be taken two times to efectivly have two psicrystals?

PSICRYSTAL AFFINITY [PSIONIC]
You have created a psicrystal.
Prerequisites: Manifester level 1st.
Benefit: This feat allows you to gain a psicrystal.

I dont see anywhere that one couldnt take it more then once. (unless im missing some obvious rule...)
Callix
10-03-07, 09:20 AM That obvious rule would be PHB, Feats section:

You cannot take a feat multiple times unless the feat explicitly says you may.

So no go. Sorry.
Parsalin
10-03-07, 09:30 AM Shame on me for not already knowing that one... or maybe i forgot. either way thanks for the info.
Lycanthromancer
10-03-07, 01:54 PM Hmm. I'm seeing a PrC that allows you more than one psicrystal. If I'm not mistaken, there's one that allows you to make lots of them by cutting out pieces of your soul and investing them into your little crystalline buddies. If you progress very far in the class, you go insane.

I don't recall exactly where it was, though.
AntiDjinn
10-03-07, 03:14 PM As further evidence that you can't simply take Psicrystal Affinity twice to get two pet rocks, look at Improved Psicrystal. It adds a second personality type to your existing psicrystal granting you the benefit of that personality type. It also increases your effective manifester level by 1 for purposes of determining your psicrystal specials, natural AC adjustment, and Int adjustment (an error, since your psicrystal's abilities are based on your psionic character levels, not your manifester levels).

Who would ever spend a feat just to get the benefits of a second personality type, if the same feat could get them a personality type plus all the other goodies that go with a pet rock? Even though the benefits from having Alertness twice would not stack, you could gain the benefit from one crystal while using the other as a scout.

Not that Improved Psicrystal is a mega-optimal feat, but if multiple psicrystals could be had without investing more than a feat, it would be a complete waste of ink.
Jaid
10-03-07, 10:05 PM not to mention having 2 (or more) psicrystals means each one could store a focus for you, which could be a whole lot of craziness =P
Scion of Coldshard
10-04-07, 02:59 PM Speaking about improved psicrystal specifically, it does increase your effective level with regard to its various abilities.. that can potentially be very helpful (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=463152).

That doesnt change the fact that people here are correct about not being able to take psicrystal multiple times though ;)
AntiDjinn
10-04-07, 03:18 PM It increases your effective level for qualifying for psicrystal abilities by 1. The chart progresses in blocks of 2, so at odd levels you won't gain any benefit from this feature of the feat. For example, if you are level 7 with Improved Psicrystal you figure your benefit as though you were level 8, which is to say you get exactly what you would have gotten without the feat. You need to take the feat twice to have a benefit at all levels. It would have been useful to have the feat put you up one step on the chart, instead of 1 level.

Also the specials top out at level 15 and the AC and Int adjustments at level 20. If we don't ever get an epic progression of this chart (only the AC and Int adjustments show a regular progression, the specials appear random and none occur as repeatable improvements of previous) then by levels 19-20 you won't have anything (other than added personality) that you wouldn't already have without the feat. The only permanent difference your crystal will experience will be skill points; because it gets the Int adjustment 1 level earlier at each block it gets skill points sooner (going up 2 Int points to get 1 added skill point means that is every 4 owner levels) and skill points are not retroactive. So by the time you hit level 20 your pet rock with have a few extra skill ranks from having hit higher Int a little sooner.
Scion of Coldshard
10-04-07, 03:25 PM Psicrystals dont get skill points from their hd unfortunately.. their skills are 4 in certain ranks or the masters ranks, whichever is higher.

Also, once you get your psicrystal up to level 21 something very interesting happens.. it basically gets the psicrystal power feat.. which can be a lot of fun ;)

Having a higher int does help out its int based skills though, it also looks like its spell resistance will go up faster.

But, going simply, getting certain abilities a level faster can be a pretty nice boon.. enough to make the feat not a waste of ink :cool: Especially when combined with the fact that the psicrystal affinity feat cannot normally be taken more than once.
Lycanthromancer
10-04-07, 03:41 PM Just the benefits that the psicrystal gives you directly could be worth a feat expenditure, especially since they stack with virtually anything else. Want a +6 to initiative? Take Improved Psicrystal and Improved Initiative. :D
AntiDjinn
10-04-07, 03:42 PM Your psicrystal doesn't ever get the Psicrystal Power feat, you take it at level 21+, the pet rock just benefits. If the psicrystal took the feat then it could implant knowledge of any power, up to 8th level that it knows in its own psicrystal.

It would be nice if having Improved Psicrystal let you take Psicrystal Power one character level earlier, but it doesn't. IP says you are considered one level higher for purposes of determining your psicrystal's abilities and Psicrystal Power is not an ability of your crystal, it is a feat that you take to make your pet rock more powerful.
Lycanthromancer
10-04-07, 03:45 PM I keep hearing that having an epic-level psicrystal lets you take Psicrystal Power, and I always wondered how that worked. I guess it doesn't after all.
Scion of Coldshard
10-04-07, 04:11 PM Your psicrystal doesn't ever get the Psicrystal Power feat, you take it at level 21+, the pet rock just benefits.

Table: Epic Psicrystal Special Abilities Owner Level Natural Armor Adj. Int Adj. Special
21st-22nd +10 +10 Psicrystal Power

Psicrystal Power
The psicrystal gains the benefit of the Psicrystal Power epic feat for the power its master chooses.

Sorry, I am not very good at tables on here.

That is the continuation of the psicrystal advancement chart. To say that the psicrystal does not gain the benefits of psicrystal power via the chart is the same as saying that the psicrystal does not get spell resistance via the chart ;)

Now, an epic manifester could very well take the feat also, and it may be taken multiple times, but even if he doesnt the psicrystal will still gain the ability off of the chart.
Callix
10-05-07, 07:01 AM Sorry, I am not very good at tables on here.

That is the continuation of the psicrystal advancement chart. To say that the psicrystal does not gain the benefits of psicrystal power via the chart is the same as saying that the psicrystal does not get spell resistance via the chart ;)

Now, an epic manifester could very well take the feat also, and it may be taken multiple times, but even if he doesnt the psicrystal will still gain the ability off of the chart.

Unfortunately, the benefit of the Psicrystal Power feat is for your psicrystal to be able to manifest one power that you know. Since your psicrystal can neither manifest powers nor has a psicrystal, it gains no benefit. If you had a psicrystal that took Hidden Talent and Psicrystal Affinity, then the pet rock's pet rock could now manifest the Hidden Talent power. Since it is now a psionic creature with a manifester level, it can gain a psicrystal, and if its "master" psicrystal is over 21 effective HD, it also can have 21 effective HD and Psicrystal Affinity. So that paticular ability allows you to have an infinite chain of psicrystals with one specific first-level power and one pp each. Pick a power you're going to use often :).
Scion of Coldshard
10-05-07, 09:43 AM Unfortunately, the benefit of the Psicrystal Power feat is for your psicrystal to be able to manifest one power that you know. Since your psicrystal can neither manifest powers nor has a psicrystal, it gains no benefit.

[qoute=SRD]Psicrystal Power
The psicrystal gains the benefit of the Psicrystal Power epic feat for the power its master chooses.[/quote]

When the character reaches level 21 on the chart they pick a power that they know of level 8 or less and the psicrystal gains that power and enough power points to manifest it once. It manifests it at the characters manifester level.

Again, if the psicrystal does not gain what it says that the psicrystal gains here then the psicrystal gains nothing from the table.. you cant have it both ways, either it gains according to the table or not.

If you had a psicrystal that took Hidden Talent and Psicrystal Affinity

Hidden talent does not give a manifester level, as such it does not help to qualify for psicrystal affinity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Parsalin 10-03-07, 09:06 AM	Hello, this may very well be a dumb question... but. Can this feat be taken two times to efectivly have two psicrystals? PSICRYSTAL AFFINITY [PSIONIC] You have created a psicrystal. Prerequisites: Manifester level 1st. Benefit: This feat allows you to gain a psicrystal. I dont see anywhere that one couldnt take it more then once. (unless im missing some obvious rule...)
Callix 10-03-07, 09:20 AM	That obvious rule would be PHB, Feats section: You cannot take a feat multiple times unless the feat explicitly says you may. So no go. Sorry.
Parsalin 10-03-07, 09:30 AM	Shame on me for not already knowing that one... or maybe i forgot. either way thanks for the info.
Lycanthromancer 10-03-07, 01:54 PM	Hmm. I'm seeing a PrC that allows you more than one psicrystal. If I'm not mistaken, there's one that allows you to make lots of them by cutting out pieces of your soul and investing them into your little crystalline buddies. If you progress very far in the class, you go insane. I don't recall exactly where it was, though.
AntiDjinn 10-03-07, 03:14 PM	As further evidence that you can't simply take Psicrystal Affinity twice to get two pet rocks, look at Improved Psicrystal. It adds a second personality type to your existing psicrystal granting you the benefit of that personality type. It also increases your effective manifester level by 1 for purposes of determining your psicrystal specials, natural AC adjustment, and Int adjustment (an error, since your psicrystal's abilities are based on your psionic character levels, not your manifester levels). Who would ever spend a feat just to get the benefits of a second personality type, if the same feat could get them a personality type plus all the other goodies that go with a pet rock? Even though the benefits from having Alertness twice would not stack, you could gain the benefit from one crystal while using the other as a scout. Not that Improved Psicrystal is a mega-optimal feat, but if multiple psicrystals could be had without investing more than a feat, it would be a complete waste of ink.
Jaid 10-03-07, 10:05 PM	not to mention having 2 (or more) psicrystals means each one could store a focus for you, which could be a whole lot of craziness =P
Scion of Coldshard 10-04-07, 02:59 PM	Speaking about improved psicrystal specifically, it does increase your effective level with regard to its various abilities.. that can potentially be very helpful (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=463152). That doesnt change the fact that people here are correct about not being able to take psicrystal multiple times though ;)
AntiDjinn 10-04-07, 03:18 PM	It increases your effective level for qualifying for psicrystal abilities by 1. The chart progresses in blocks of 2, so at odd levels you won't gain any benefit from this feature of the feat. For example, if you are level 7 with Improved Psicrystal you figure your benefit as though you were level 8, which is to say you get exactly what you would have gotten without the feat. You need to take the feat twice to have a benefit at all levels. It would have been useful to have the feat put you up one step on the chart, instead of 1 level. Also the specials top out at level 15 and the AC and Int adjustments at level 20. If we don't ever get an epic progression of this chart (only the AC and Int adjustments show a regular progression, the specials appear random and none occur as repeatable improvements of previous) then by levels 19-20 you won't have anything (other than added personality) that you wouldn't already have without the feat. The only permanent difference your crystal will experience will be skill points; because it gets the Int adjustment 1 level earlier at each block it gets skill points sooner (going up 2 Int points to get 1 added skill point means that is every 4 owner levels) and skill points are not retroactive. So by the time you hit level 20 your pet rock with have a few extra skill ranks from having hit higher Int a little sooner.
Scion of Coldshard 10-04-07, 03:25 PM	Psicrystals dont get skill points from their hd unfortunately.. their skills are 4 in certain ranks or the masters ranks, whichever is higher. Also, once you get your psicrystal up to level 21 something very interesting happens.. it basically gets the psicrystal power feat.. which can be a lot of fun ;) Having a higher int does help out its int based skills though, it also looks like its spell resistance will go up faster. But, going simply, getting certain abilities a level faster can be a pretty nice boon.. enough to make the feat not a waste of ink :cool: Especially when combined with the fact that the psicrystal affinity feat cannot normally be taken more than once.
Lycanthromancer 10-04-07, 03:41 PM	Just the benefits that the psicrystal gives you directly could be worth a feat expenditure, especially since they stack with virtually anything else. Want a +6 to initiative? Take Improved Psicrystal and Improved Initiative. :D
AntiDjinn 10-04-07, 03:42 PM	Your psicrystal doesn't ever get the Psicrystal Power feat, you take it at level 21+, the pet rock just benefits. If the psicrystal took the feat then it could implant knowledge of any power, up to 8th level that it knows in its own psicrystal. It would be nice if having Improved Psicrystal let you take Psicrystal Power one character level earlier, but it doesn't. IP says you are considered one level higher for purposes of determining your psicrystal's abilities and Psicrystal Power is not an ability of your crystal, it is a feat that you take to make your pet rock more powerful.
Lycanthromancer 10-04-07, 03:45 PM	I keep hearing that having an epic-level psicrystal lets you take Psicrystal Power, and I always wondered how that worked. I guess it doesn't after all.
Scion of Coldshard 10-04-07, 04:11 PM	Your psicrystal doesn't ever get the Psicrystal Power feat, you take it at level 21+, the pet rock just benefits. Table: Epic Psicrystal Special Abilities Owner Level Natural Armor Adj. Int Adj. Special 21st-22nd +10 +10 Psicrystal Power Psicrystal Power The psicrystal gains the benefit of the Psicrystal Power epic feat for the power its master chooses. Sorry, I am not very good at tables on here. That is the continuation of the psicrystal advancement chart. To say that the psicrystal does not gain the benefits of psicrystal power via the chart is the same as saying that the psicrystal does not get spell resistance via the chart ;) Now, an epic manifester could very well take the feat also, and it may be taken multiple times, but even if he doesnt the psicrystal will still gain the ability off of the chart.
Callix 10-05-07, 07:01 AM	Sorry, I am not very good at tables on here. That is the continuation of the psicrystal advancement chart. To say that the psicrystal does not gain the benefits of psicrystal power via the chart is the same as saying that the psicrystal does not get spell resistance via the chart ;) Now, an epic manifester could very well take the feat also, and it may be taken multiple times, but even if he doesnt the psicrystal will still gain the ability off of the chart. Unfortunately, the benefit of the Psicrystal Power feat is for your psicrystal to be able to manifest one power that you know. Since your psicrystal can neither manifest powers nor has a psicrystal, it gains no benefit. If you had a psicrystal that took Hidden Talent and Psicrystal Affinity, then the pet rock's pet rock could now manifest the Hidden Talent power. Since it is now a psionic creature with a manifester level, it can gain a psicrystal, and if its "master" psicrystal is over 21 effective HD, it also can have 21 effective HD and Psicrystal Affinity. So that paticular ability allows you to have an infinite chain of psicrystals with one specific first-level power and one pp each. Pick a power you're going to use often :).
Scion of Coldshard 10-05-07, 09:43 AM	Unfortunately, the benefit of the Psicrystal Power feat is for your psicrystal to be able to manifest one power that you know. Since your psicrystal can neither manifest powers nor has a psicrystal, it gains no benefit. [qoute=SRD]Psicrystal Power The psicrystal gains the benefit of the Psicrystal Power epic feat for the power its master chooses.[/quote] When the character reaches level 21 on the chart they pick a power that they know of level 8 or less and the psicrystal gains that power and enough power points to manifest it once. It manifests it at the characters manifester level. Again, if the psicrystal does not gain what it says that the psicrystal gains here then the psicrystal gains nothing from the table.. you cant have it both ways, either it gains according to the table or not. If you had a psicrystal that took Hidden Talent and Psicrystal Affinity Hidden talent does not give a manifester level, as such it does not help to qualify for psicrystal affinity.