Post/Author/DateTime	Post
berserkfiery 05-02-07, 10:49 PM	I have a real quick question about envoy. if i get the feat to get the envoy does the feats for the Psicrystal apply to the envoy(ie.Psicrystal Containment, Improved Psicrystal). the other thing is does powers that target Psicrystal (Solicit Psicrystal) work on Envoy and the crystal master Prestige Class does it work with Envoy. :confused: :confused:
Tempest Stormwind 05-02-07, 11:14 PM	Nope. Dick-all works on the envoy. It doesn't even advance with level. Worthless feat due to insufficient development in one of the worst books in the history of WotC's run. It's far from the only casualty.
FeceMan 05-02-07, 11:51 PM	Nope. Dick-all works on the envoy. It doesn't even advance with level. Worthless feat due to insufficient development in one of the worst books in the history of WotC's run. It's far from the only casualty. Which is ridiculous. The feats SHOULD work on the envoy simply because the envoy is "improved familiar, only crappy."
SlanderPanic 05-03-07, 10:24 AM	Much as I like the idea of having a halfling-sized buddy following me around, burning things, Tempest is right. They're underdeveloped, which renders them useless.
JLaurHughes 05-03-07, 10:40 AM	The way the feat Elemental Envoy reads, it seems to replace the psicrystal and if you read the Sidebar (CPsi, p.53) that goes with the Elemental Envoy it DOES advance. I don't think it's underdeveloped for what the Elemental Stewart has at a CR 2
Zylo_Drizzt 05-03-07, 10:59 AM	since it is so underdevelped why don't people try to develop it on this board?
Tempest Stormwind 05-03-07, 01:43 PM	since it is so underdevelped why don't people try to develop it on this board? Because it's from Complete Psionic and wasn't a terribly good idea from there to begin with (it's "elemental familiar, psionic"). It also has terrible connotations as being one of CPsi's summoning powers (in a book that nerfed the fine Astral Construct and introduced problematic and hyppocritical multi-summon effects).
CrimsonDeath 05-03-07, 04:01 PM	You could always houserule that it works with Psicrystal feats. It's not like CPsi doesn't require enough houserules already...
awaken_D_M_golem 05-03-07, 04:56 PM	Luckily, the Elemental Envoy is dismissible. And a DM doesn't have to have PHB2 feat retraining, to understand the concept. Dismiss EE, gain a feat slot back ... Pseudo-retraining. If touch powers and sneaking is your bag, stick with the psicrystal. If broken good at level 1, then "Master, I don't want to go back to the Elemental Plane of Earth. I want to stay with you forever." Master : "Tough", bye-bye at level X. It's a ... pSi-oap ... opera script, playing out at universes all across the multi-verse. Have fun.
Rageheart 05-03-07, 05:13 PM	since it is so underdevelped why don't people try to develop it on this board? Lack of intrest, maybe?
red_scare87 05-03-07, 05:47 PM	since it is so underdevelped why don't people try to develop it on this board? Possibly because it's a really bad idea with little-to-no actual psionic flavor.
kyeudo 05-03-07, 06:16 PM	Elementals were never supposed to be psionic, so we dont bother developing them here, unless you want an Astral Elemental or Etheral Elemental, but those are called Astral Constructs with Awaken Construct and Permanency cast on them, or Ghosts.
CrimsonDeath 05-04-07, 04:35 AM	...I could see a psionic Crystal Elemental from the Plane of Earth, but that's about it, and Elementals generally like to come in sets of four.
Racinante 05-04-07, 11:32 AM	Actually, I could see a whole host of [earth] elementals as psionic. Basically any elemental based on a gem or a metal/mineral with a crystalline structure.
InkBlot 05-04-07, 12:57 PM	You mean like a crysmal? CRYSMAL Small Elemental (Earth, Psionic) Hit Dice: 6d8+6 (33 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), burrow 20 ft. Armor Class: 21 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +8 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 19 Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+2 Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d3+3) Full Attack: Sting +7 melee (1d3+3) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Psi-like abilities Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/ bludgeoning, Elemental traits, immunity to fire and cold, resistance to electricity 15 Saves: Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +2 Abilities: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 14 Skills: Appraise +9, Climb +5, Jump +5, Listen +2, Spot +10 Feats: Alertness, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes Environment: Underground Organization: Solitary or facet (2-5) Challenge Rating: 3 Treasure: Double goods (gems only) Alignment: Any lawful Advancement: 7-12 HD (Medium); 13-18 HD (Large) Level Adjustment: - A conglomerate of stone and crystal, a crysmal above all else seeks to perpetuate its kind. Crysmals transform mundane minerals into juvenile crysmals. Gems are the perfect substance for this reproductive cycle: To make a single juvenile, a crysmal generally needs eight to ten gems, each of 25 gp value or more. Crysmals understand Terran but do not speak. Combat Psi-Like Abilities: At will - control object, control sound, detect psionics, empty mind, mind thrust (2d10, DC 13*); 3/day - psionic dimension door. Manifester level 2nd. The save DCs are Charisma-based. *Includes augmentation for the crysmal’s manifester level. Skills: Crysmals have a +8 racial bonus on Appraise checks and Spot checks. I think that most elementals should be too primal to have much in the way of psionics. However, I could picture psionic outsiders native to the elemental planes. They would come to the material world to bask in the auras of those few rare individuals who's minds exemplify their native element even moreso than the elemental plane itself. If these psionic outsiders became to greedy, the might start behaving like psychic vampires -- syphoning off psychic energy from firey tempers, cold dispositions, or rock solid determination. Basically, I'd make them available as cohorts to natural world or energy ardents. And I'd make a telepathy power that calls them to you. The flavor would be that your sending out a psychic beacon which these creatures can detect, and then one or more of them uses their plane shift ability to come to you. Call Elemonger Telepathy [Mind-Affecting] Level: Elements X, Energy X, Natural World X Display: Mental and olfactory Manifesting Time: 1 round Range: See text Effect: See text Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: No Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 2X - 1 You broadcast a powerful psychic beacon onto one of the elemental planes (earth, air, water, or fire). This beacon is attuned to the energy of the plane, and creatures native to the plane experiance it as a brief escalation in the intensity of the energy of their home plane. Some may attempt to seek out the source of the beacon, but only the psionic creatures known as elemongers have the ability to trace it back to you. When you finish manifesting this power, one elemonger arrives adjacent to you via it's own psychoportative ability. If there is no available adjacent space, it appears in the nearest open space. The elemonger initialy has a friendly attitude towards you, as you are the source of the delicious psychic vibrations which it seeks. It will attempt to defend you and won't flee your side, but generaly will not risk it's life otherwise. This power does not place the elemonger under your command, nor does it grant you any ability to communicate with the elemonger. After this power ends and your broadcast ceases, the elemonger uses it's psychoporative abilities to return to it's safe haven on it's home plane. If you were especialy abusive towards the elemonger (e.g., if you attacked it, or forced it to fight against it's will), it may steal additional psychic energy in compensation (using it's psychic vampire psi-like ability). If the elemonger you called dies while this power is still active, there is a 20% chance each round that another elemonger from the same plane follow your beacon to you. The effect of this power is the psychic beacon you emit, not the elemonger. Dispelling this power will not automatically send the elemonger back home, but will remove it's reason for staying on the material plane. Augment: For every 2 additional power points you spend, the elemonger you call has an additional outsider hit die.
Lycanthromancer 05-04-07, 05:45 PM	The idea behind that is sheer awesome. Wizards of the Cost (intentional misspelling) could learn a thing or three from you about psionics and flavor.
Tempest Stormwind 05-04-07, 06:07 PM	Amen to that. Strictly speaking, though, that should be "Effect", not "target", since the elemonger isn't actually being targeted so much as following the beacon. And since the effect is technically the creation of a beacon, I'd just say "Effect: See text". It should also have an energy subtype similar to the energy powers (see text, changes based on what plane you attune it to). These are mechanical development problems, not conceptual ones, though.
InkBlot 05-05-07, 12:30 AM	TS, you're absolutely right about the target/effect line. I already went back and changed it. According to the XPH psionics doesn't have elemental descriptors like [air], [earth], or [water]. Also it just doesn't seem right to have a telepathy power with elemental descriptors. I could change the whole power to deal with energy types instead of elements, and make it a psychokinesis power, but that seems like going too far. The idea behind that is sheer awesome. Wizards of the Cost (intentional misspelling) could learn a thing or three from you about psionics and flavor. Amen to that. Wow! Thankyou for the compliments.
Tempest Stormwind 05-05-07, 12:47 AM	Also, wouldn't elemonglers be Elementals, not Outsiders? (And it's mind-Affecting, not mind-Effecting.) I'd like to try to stat those suckers out, since they should be distinct from the envoys, except I suck at monster design. (one area I'm *very* weak at in the D&D ruleset.)
FeceMan 05-05-07, 01:57 AM	To the fellow who said envoys advance: The problem is that they don't advance in HD. Also, I don't get why elementals don't qualify for psionics--it's just magic, only different, right? Psionicists can summon "unstable ectoplasm" that has elemental properties.
InkBlot 05-05-07, 04:06 PM	IMO, the problem wasn't that the power summoned elementals. The problem was that this kind of summoning binds the summoned creature to your will - yet it's a psychoportation power; and the power gives no justification for being able to summon only these certain elementals, but not any other kind of creature. Also, wouldn't elemonglers be Elementals, not Outsiders? (And it's mind-Affecting, not mind-Effecting.) I'd like to try to stat those suckers out, since they should be distinct from the envoys, except I suck at monster design. (one area I'm *very* weak at in the D&D ruleset.) Elemongers are kind of like genies. Not elementals, just strongly associated with their home plane. A fire elemonger (fuegomonger) feeds off of the idea of fire, not fire itself. The plane eminates the idea of fire around the multiverse, but pockets of more strongly imagined ideal fire can exist within powerful minds. Mind-Affecting is what I wrote. I'm no good at designing monsters either, but I think I'm still going to give it a try.
FeceMan 05-06-07, 12:51 AM	My emanationist sense is tingling...
Phalo 05-06-07, 01:56 PM	It seems to me that is you wanted a equivalent of improved familiar for psionic characters you could having something like a binding ritual. Or bonding with an element where you take ectoplasm and bind it with and one of the elements. I can see it in my head real good. Psion is sitting next to a fire meditating and slowly a ball of ectoplasm forms above a fire. a single flame leaps and the ball begins to spin slowly pulling the fire into itself. creating a burning ball of ectoplasm. Then you can add a progression to give it the psi crystal abilities 1st-2nd +0 +0 Alertness, improved evasion, personality, share powers, telepathic link 3rd-4th +1 +1 Deliver touch powers 5th-6th +2 +2 Telepathic speech 7th-8th +3 +3 — 9th-10th +4 +4 - 11th-12th +5 +5 Power resistance 13th-14th +6 +6 Sight link 15th-16th +7 +7 Channel power 17th-18th +8 +8 — 19th-20th +9 +9 — This is really rough
FeceMan 05-06-07, 02:33 PM	Or we could just have CPsi errata.
Moosh Nailo 05-06-07, 07:56 PM	I like Phalo's description. And my first impression, when Phalo said "binding ritual" was that the elemental energy would be bound into the psycristal. So that got me thinking, why bother creating new creatures to used as improved psicrystals, when we could just enhance the original one. I think it would help psionics maintain it's own flavour rather than following magic too closely. If you want elemental energy, then go through a ritual like Phalo described, but with the psicrystal being the focus. The end result could be a psycristal with an aura that enhances energy-based powers and spells manifested by allies within 15 ft (perhaps granting +1 damage and +1 save DC (scalable)) and access to new power-like abilities such as those from the energy mantle (with limits/day) as the psion's level increases. Or maybe enhancing the psicrystal to be receptive to the astral construct power? Say the psicrystal gains the ability to manifest astral construct 1/day, at it's lowest level. The construct forms around the psicrystal, and the psicrystal has control. The psion could expend power points to augment the astral construct form when the psicrystal manifests it (or the psicrystal could augment itself, if it has power points) The construct would last 24 hours, or until destroyed. If destroyed, the psicrystal would take no damage, simply reverting to it's normal form and function. This allows mutability with the psicrystal's improved abilities every time it manifests manifest the power. Another idea is to work with the base psionic nature of the crystal. The psicrystal gains manifesting ability equal to that of a psychic warrior of half the master's level (Maybe this is too powerful: I'm not sure what would be too little or too much, here.), a reversal of the share powers ability (swap the words owner and psicrystal), and access to a small list of powers, perhaps something like this: 1: Call to Mind, Crystal Shard, Deflection Field, Deja Vu, Detect Psionics, Eidetic Lock, Far Hand, Missive 2: Damp Power, Energy Emanation, Mental Disruption, Levitate, Missive (Mass), Sense Link (forced), 3: Mind Trap, Telekinetic Force, Telekinetic Thrust, 4: Correspond, Power Leech, Telekinetic Maneuver, 5:Catapsi, Leech Field, Stygian Dominion, 6:Co-opt Concentration, Energy Nullification Field, Kinda based on interfering with the bad guys, and providing limited support to the master. Some of the powers up there are probably too powerful for this idea, and I'm sure you guys will figure out what's good. As always, these are just ideas, flowing from my head as is. Here to be critiqued, changed, fiddled with, used, or ignored at your pleasure.
RavinRay 05-06-07, 10:12 PM	Also, I don't get why elementals don't qualify for psionics--it's just magic, only different, right? Psionicists can summon "unstable ectoplasm" that has elemental properties. Personally, I don't see common elementals as leaning toward either magic or psionics at the expense of the other. None of them have (Sp) abilities. Me, I'd rather deal with the vastly neglected energons, now that there are five more for the five energies (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic), plus a psionic energon. (I have a summon energon psychoportive power that's analogous to the summon elemental spell.) I'm surprised that none of the Stygian powers in CPsi ever made use of the Negative Energy Plane-based xeg-yi; but then that would require use of the Manual of the Planes.
Phalo 05-07-07, 12:20 PM	I don't see it so much as summoning an elemental but binding the essence of an element with and existing psi crystal. And if you want to give it a power how about making it like an Cognizance Crystal with a small power pool you have to fill and a single/maybe two power related to the element you bind to it So for a fire binding you end up with a psi crystal surrounded with a burning ball of ectoplasm. With these powers tuned to type of elemental binding when the crystal is in contact with you 6th Energy Bolt 7th Energy Adaptation 9th Adapt Body 11th Psychokinesis 13th Breath of the Black Dragon (substitute energy type here) 15th I will figure out rest later