Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wizard Random 03-19-07, 01:20 AM	Here is a intrested idea. If you're psicrystal gains feats, then it could take ya know... Hidden Power. Besides the obvious beifets it can take... Psicrystal Affinity!! Then wouldnt it gain a psicrystal>? Then couldnt ITS crystal gain another crystal etc etc etc. Also whats funny id the crystal can take Practiced manifester to increases its caster level to 5th. If it matters. However this idea is mind boggoling i don't even know how it can be utilized.
Lokiyn 03-19-07, 01:21 AM	*sigh* No it can't Please re-read Hidden Talent. The psicrystal does not gain a manifester level from hidden talent. However this can be done once the psycrystal is epic and recieves Psicrystal Power
Wizard Random 03-19-07, 01:29 AM	*sigh* No it can't Please re-read Hidden Talent. The psicrystal does not gain a manifester level from hidden talent. However this can be done once the psycrystal is epic and recieves Psicrystal Power I was just wondering since it says you gain a Manifester level of 1st and IF , if you have a psionic class then ya know it stacks. It was a honest mistake However the only thread i can find talking about Hidden talent only covers the fact you don't gain extra PP from getting those MLs. Mind a link to the thread in question so i can read over it?
WinterPsionic 03-19-07, 04:08 PM	Also the process of making a Psicrsystal is more or less beyond the abilties of a PsiCrystal.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-19-07, 04:52 PM	hmm ... a VERY interesting point WizR , The psicrystal might have 4 ranks in Psicraft from its owner. And then qualifies for Practised Manifester , raising its ML to its HD. Oh that's just screwy ... :D ... hidden talent provides the power if yer DM is being tight. I know where this ends up. ;) psly4mne's Arbitrary Big Guy Is With Me build ascends to infinite. Hive just does it at level 1 , round 1 , with massively higher initial conditions. The psicrystal just takes leadership. Now the psicrystal doesn't need to take Leadership !!! Brilliant. One more nail in Pun-pun's coffin. Blingy says Hi - WizR.
Jaid 03-19-07, 06:46 PM	clearly you weren't paying any attention whatsoever. Hidden Talent Does Not Allow You To Have A Psicrystal.
danzibr 03-19-07, 07:42 PM	clearly you weren't paying any attention whatsoever. Hidden Talent Does Not Allow You To Have A Psicrystal. I hope you're joking. Dan
Lokiyn 03-19-07, 08:00 PM	No, we're not. Hidden talent does not actually grant you a manifester level.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-19-07, 08:08 PM	Hi Jaid , Hidden Talent Does Not Allow You To Have A Psicrystal. hmm ... well ... Psicrystal Affinity ... Prerequisites : Manifester level 1st. now , Lokiyn is absolutely right. A more stringent reading of Psicrystals , may suggest you need a power , too. "That's" where Hidden Talent comes in. Manifester level 1 is provided by 1 HD and PractisedManifester. PractisedManifester is provided by the feat and 4 ranks in Psicraft. 4 ranks is Psicraft is provided by the Psion or whatever , shared as per the Psicrystal entries. Tempest Stromwind had to put the psicrystal stuff together in the FAQ. ack ... I keep mis-spelling RO for OR , prolly m'cuz I had the hots for this basketball chick and ... oops , I'll stop. EDIT : Hi Lokiyn , cross posted with you. I type slow. Yeah , the Hidden Talent only provides the ML during the -festing. But a 1st level psion has the 1 ML anyway. Man , I'm having trouble spelling today , had to edit my edit. Hidden and Wild talent provide psionic sub-type , just slightly more stuff from Hidden. So about the SRD quote above ...:D EDIT to the 3rd Power : Tempest , I am in no way shapes or forms suggesting in any way possible that I have the 'hots' for you. And I'm surprised at myself , that I let my personality parasite even type that.
danzibr 03-19-07, 09:08 PM	clearly you weren't paying any attention whatsoever. Hidden Talent Does Not Allow You To Have A Psicrystal. Okay, by quoting this and saying, "I hope you're joking" I meant to say, "Yes, Psicrystal Affinity gives you a Psicrystal, not Hidden Talent." Dan
Wizard Random 03-19-07, 09:41 PM	Also the process of making a Psicrsystal is more or less beyond the abilties of a PsiCrystal. Well from what Cust Serv has said to me, all it takes to create a psicrystal is 1 standered action. If the crystal is ever destroyed for any reason it takes 1 standered action to reform it. It is not created out of a 100gp gem like i thought it was, but rather looks to be around that much in worth. If the psicrystal ever did gain the ability to make one, i don't see to much of a problem with it taking a standered action. Also i don't know where you got the idea that you only gain the ML when casting the power, nothing in the feat would even begin to suggest that to me. However you guys will know more about this so i will default to you're opinion.
Part-Human2 03-20-07, 12:04 AM	The Practiced Spellcaster feat features this poor editing error and it was copied to Practiced Manifester. In Complete Divine the short description says "Your caster level is +4 but not above your HD." In Complete Arcane the short description says "Increase your caster level by +4". It's supposed to say "Choose a spellcasting class that you possess. Your spells cast from that class are more powerful" as is clear in the online WotC Feat Index (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/feats) The Practiced Manifester feat short description should read "Choose a manifesting class that you possess. The powers you manifest from that class are more powerful." Anyway, below in the "Special" section of the feat it states "You can select this feat multiple times. Each time you chose it, you must apply it to a different manifesting class." That includes the 1st time you choose it. EDIT: See Lokiyn's quote below (actually on pg 57). How did I miss the 1st sentence of those feats? Actually all the Practiced caster feats start with that line so I don't know what I'm talking about.
Lokiyn 03-20-07, 09:31 PM	If you have no psionic class levels, you are considered a 1st-level manifester when manifesting this power. If you have psionic class levels, you can manifest the power at the highest manifester level you have attained. (This is not a manifester level, and it does not add to any manifester levels gained by taking psionic classes.) Choose a manifesting class that you possess. The Powers You manifest from that class are more powerful. Prerequisites: ~~ Benefit: Your manifester level [b]For the chosen manifesting class[b] increases by four. ~~~ Here are the reasons why.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-21-07, 05:00 PM	Hi Lokiyn , I'll give that a yes but ... conferring upon you the designation of a psionic character. As a psionic character ... can take psionic feats , metapsionic feats , and psionic item creation feats. Psionic feats are available only to characters and creatures with the ability to manifest powers. ( stuff in parentheses ) A character takes Wild Talent , and now is no longer Non-Psionic. "can take psionic feats" vs. "ability to manifest powers" My solution is like Ability Stats can be "--" , " 0 " , or " 1 " . A Non-psionic is a "--" A Psionic class has a ML of " 1 " Wild Talent confers a ML of non , zero , one , or ??? I ignore the Wild Talent problem by going Hidden Talent. Hidden Talent confers ML of 1 , but only when manifesting. Now "can take psionic feats" AND "ability to manifest powers". If 4 ranks of Psicraft , And practised manifester feat , then ML equals Zero plus 'up to 4 or HD'. Table-izing ML : Non ......................... non P.char + WT ............ zero P.char + HT ............. zero or one P.char + WT + PM ... zero or one P.char + HT + PM .... zero or one P.class .................... one Gray Zone : I say the PM gives ML of one. Commentary : 3 feats to get a Psicrystal is very inefficient. Just not a problem for 2000+ feats for each and every bug in the Hive. Of course , skill checks of 24 Trillion , during round 2 , is not particularly useful.
Lokiyn 03-21-07, 08:32 PM	No, (This is not a manifester level, and it does not add to any manifester levels gained by taking psionic classes.) Benefit: Your manifester level For the chosen manifesting class increases by four. ~~~ No you do not have an actual manifester level at any point For the Chosen Class, For the Chosen Class, Practiced manifester cannot improve something that doesn't exist No manifester Level+ No Manifesting Class= NO, this does not work, period
awaken_D_M_golem 03-22-07, 03:54 PM	I get where you are going Lokiyn , but there are some extenuating circumstances. The very early returns on XPH included alot of confusion about whether a PsiWar could take psicrystal affinity. Same could now be said about Soulknife , Ardent , Lurk , and Divine Mind. This might be considered the : Don't Kick The Divine Mind When He's Down , argument. ... psionic character ... psionic character ... The Divine Mind is a psionic character ... Can the Soulknife take psicrystal at level 1 or any ? Can the DivineMind take psicrystal at level 1 ? Can the DivineMind take PracMani feat at level 1 ? What would the DivineMind's ML be with PM feat ? If the DivineMind is a 'psionic class' , why does it need Wild Talent ( with a minor improvement ) ? If the Soulknife is a 'psionic class' , why does it need Wild Talent ( with a minor improvement ) ? I'm trying to understand your position without mis-representing it. Taken to its logical conclusion , re-opens the : Who can get a psicrystal argument , that TS had to make the FAQ . My position is : Erudite 1 is an almost infinitely superior way to get a psicrystal. One teensy-weensy infinite minus one situation causes a "problem" ;) . Fighter 4 takes SkillKnowledge(Psicraft) + HiddenTalent + PractisedManifester. What's his ML , 1 or 4 ? And when he's not -festing , what's his ML , non or zero ? --------EDIT : re-reading your post above HiddenTalent provides a ML when you manifest the power. VERY trick question. Wilder takes HT , ala the new web enhancement. That power is treated as What ML? Wilder4/Fighter2 + HT + PM , what's the ML on the HiddenTalent power ?
Lokiyn 03-22-07, 05:18 PM	Now I’m going to say this slowly since it is a very complicated answer, and by complicated, I mean mind numbingly simple. Hidden talent does not grant you a manifester level. Period. There are no exceptions no loopholes not nothing. The feat explicitly states that while treated as a manifester level 1 for the power, and I quote, (This is not a manifester level, and it does not add to any manifester levels gained by taking Psionic classes.) Since it does not provide a manifester level it is not applicable. As for practiced manifester it does not apply to all sources of manifester level. it only raises the manifester level for a single manifesting class Soulknives can not have psicrystals because they do not have a manifester level Divine minds can take psicrystal affinity, at level 5 not before because they do not have a manifester level till then. Divine minds with practiced manifester can take psicrystal affinity at level one because the bonus cancels out the penalty (1-4= -3 + 4 = 1) Fighters with hidden talent, in fact all classes with hidden talent that do not gain manifester levels by virtue if their class do not have a manifester level, period and can not benefit from practiced manifester So lets recap Hidden talent does not provide a manifester level, Period Practiced Manifester only affects manifester levels gained by class
awaken_D_M_golem 03-23-07, 05:31 PM	On a different thread, Tleilaxu_Ghola j'cused me on being incomprehensible. Lokiyn obviously does not. Maybe you think I'm actually Awaken_D_M_pinata. Luckily, a golem is immune to attacks by "holy word". This one merely slowed by such attack. TimeStop to go read the "holy" book, which cures the slow. ;) My DR covers the nerf-bat, making it sound more like a wiffle-bat. Bamp. Now I’m going to say this slowly since it is a very complicated answer, and by complicated, I mean mind numbingly simple. Hidden talent does not provide a manifester level, Period Practiced Manifester only affects manifester levels gained by class So I opened our "holy" book, looking for salvation of some sort. :rolleyes: I didn't expect either of us to ReadThoughts to other perfectly, and I'm slightly shocked that we are both right. :eek: mmm kay Lets eliminate HiddenTalent and PractisedManifester all together. There a certain chaos there, I'll fill in later. As I already mentioned in WildTalent quotes above, the feat upgrades one to a Psionic Character. This without being a Psionic Class, except in the case of Soulknife and DivineMind. { ... tangent : Lokiyn is a member of Kick The Divine Mind When It's Down ... /tangent } Thoughout the XPH, Psi-Character and Psi-Class are used more or less the same way. But not in the cases that Lokiyn not-not-'d above. As I said : he's right. But wait just one second. Psionic Creatures Creatures with a power point reserve ... characters who have levels in a character class that grants a power point reserve ... creatures who have the Wild Talent feat "Creatures" and "characters" are used synonymously in the power descriptions. A power's effect often depends on the manifester level, which is the manifester's psionic class level. A creature with no classes has a manifester level equal to its Hit Dice unless otherwise specified The underlined words are my underlining, and refer to the previous sentence, i.e. no psionic class level. Taking a Psionic Class, undoes a character from the two quotes above. A non-Psionic class + Wild Talent feat = Psionic Character and Creature. It's ML = it's HD. If HD is 1, ML is 1. So a Fighter 1 with Wild Talent feat, could take Psicrystal Affinity. The chaos part starts when this Fighter 1 takes HiddenTalent , and then takes Wilder 1. Or whatever else. Either way, what Lokiyn posted works here two different ways,100% right. ------------------------- Now what does this have to do with WizR's improvement on psly4mne's arbitrary build? Hive is not a psionic class, takes WildTalent feat, qualifies for PsicrystalAffinity feat. "Groundhog Day". Blingy says hi.
Part-Human2 03-23-07, 07:06 PM	I don't buy it. The Manifester Level based on HD was quoted in regards to manifesting powers. Since the fighter cannot manifest powers, he still doesn't have a manifester level but he is of the [Psionic] subtype. THE PSIONIC SUBTYPE The psionic subtype applies to creatures that can use psionic powers or abilities or that have the ability to manifest powers. (In other words, a creature with the psionic subtype either has a power point reserve or has psi-like abilities.) It also applies to creatures from other sources that have spell-like abilities labeled as “psionics.” Characters who have levels in any class that grants the use of psionics, or who have psi-like abilities as racial traits, gain the psionic subtype. Traits: Other than the fact that all psionic creatures have psionic powers or psi-like abilities, psionic creatures have no specific traits. The psionic subtype simply identifies creatures that may be vulnerable to powers, spells, and effects targeting psionic creatures. Quoting can be fun -- by definition the fighter now must have a psionic power or psi-like ability!!! BTW, it appears manifester level isn't a trait of being the Psionic Subtype.
Lokiyn 03-23-07, 07:14 PM	No, Hidden talent does not provide a manifester level, period. It does not provide a psi like ability, it does not provide a manifesting class equivalent. It allows you to manifest a power, but it does not confer upon you any more manifesting levels than the use of a power stone. Practiced manifester only works on class levels, period Further more you are misquoting the full quotes are PSIONIC CREATURES Any creature with psionic powers has the psionic subtype. A psionic creature can be born with the subtype or can gain the subtype during its life. A creature meeting any one of the following criteria has the psionic subtype: Creatures with a power point reserve, including characters who have levels in a character class that grants them a power point reserve or Creatures who have the Wild Talent feat. Creatures with psi-like abilities, including characters who have racial psi-like abilities. Creatures that have spell-like abilities described as “psionics,” including the aboleth, mind flayer, yuan-ti, and monsters from sources other than the Monster Manual. Traits: Other than the fact that all psionic creatures have psionic powers, power points, or psi-like abilities, psionic creatures have no specific traits. The psionic subtype serves to identify creatures that may be vulnerable to powers, spells, and effects targeting psionic creatures. In other words a character with wild talent is psionic because of the first case. It has power points, it does not have a psi like ability, futher more hidden talent does not grant a "psi like ability" it grants you the ability to manifest a power, however in doing so also explicitly states that you are doing so as a manifester does, however it also explicitly states that you do not actually have a manifester level due to this feat. Hidden talent does not grant a character a manifester level, nor does it grant anything upon the character outside of its listed benefits The ability to manifest a single power The Psionic subtype A 2 power point reserve And no awaken_D_M_golem, your posts are still nearly incomprehensible, your inability to string two coherent sentances together without devolving into some wierd twisted references to dnd that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. The only reason i can understand your posts is because my abnormal psychology professor had us translate journals from a schizophrenic patient. Disjointed nonsensical grammer being on of the main obstacles to overcome. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/new/new_bar.jpg @ Part-Human2 Part of the ability to manifest powers is the power point reserve, in the quote you posted, the reserve and the powers normally linked to the reserve are rolled into "having psionic powers" As i mentioned Hidden talent grants you a reserve, a power, the psionic subtype, but not a manifester level.
Part-Human2 03-23-07, 09:22 PM	No, .. @ Part-Human2 Part of the ability to manifest powers is the power point reserve, in the quote you posted, the reserve and the powers normally linked to the reserve are rolled into "having psionic powers" As i mentioned Hidden talent grants you a reserve, a power, the psionic subtype, but not a manifester level. I know, I was agreeing with your both your points. I only quoted because the error of following logic of quoted rules can cause problems. The quote does state that "all psionic creatures have psionic powers or psi-like abilities, psionic creatures have no specific traits" which isn't true.
Lokiyn 03-23-07, 09:32 PM	Sorry, i didn't mean for it to seem like i was disagreeing with you, i intended to simply expand of the probable reasons why the text on 68 and 183 were slightly different. Let me go edit that
awaken_D_M_golem 03-24-07, 02:43 PM	OK. Most people who "buy" D&D products can and do distinguish between fluff and crunch. I include fluff in my postings for one simple reason. Generally speaking the crunch is ignored. The best example of ignoring crunch, is my recent nerfing of the level1 Pun-pun. Knowing ahead of time , the best I could do is be the dutch boy with his finger in the **** (the "old" definition of ****) until - as it turned out - Tleilaxu_Ghola showed up. My 'incomprehensible' post there , is a word for word expose of DM fiat. And of course it was ignored, for a while. EDIT : apologies, I didn't know that word would be starred out. Eliminating all fluff and/or humor ... Do : (1) Psionic sub-type (2) Psionic character (3) Psionic creature (4) Psionic class have the same meaning : (1) all of the time (2) some of the time (3) none of the time ?! by the way , today I'm away from books. Returning to fluff, there are 573 rules in one particular holy book, and modifications to "all" of them in another that includes the first. They / them have been fighting for 2000 years, including internecine. D&D has more rules. And more modifications. Lets eliminate HiddenTalent and PractisedManifester altogether I wasn't talking about Hidden Talent or Practised Manifester , after that point. Oops, too much fluff. Statement: HiddenTalent and PractisedManifester have value of Zero.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-25-07, 02:49 PM	Wizard Random , you know how in the game of chicken , the one who "blinks" first is the loser ?! I hope the Wizo's don't lock this thread. Lokiyn's post above was funny. Lokiyn, I don't know you. I was hoping to make nice-nice with you. I managed to do that with psly4mne. I've my doubts about doing that with you. Lyinginbedmon busted my chops over spaces before commas, and I quoted your sig at him - the comma's are against my religion thing. The rest of this post is intended as humor. I doubt Lokiyn will take it that way. section 1 And no awaken_D_M_golem, your posts are still nearly incomprehensible, your inability to string two coherent sentances together without devolving into some wierd twisted references to dnd that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. section 2 The only reason i can understand your posts is because my abnormal psychology professor had us translate journals from a schizophrenic patient. Disjointed nonsensical grammer being on of the main obstacles to overcome. This post of yours , Lokiyn , is an attempt at an Argumentum Ad Hominem. I say "attempt" because it fails miserably. I think it's funny. Most people know Ad Hominem as the Ann Coulter fallacy : "You don't agree with me , you're stupid." It's her favorite. I'd like to respond. section 1 Every sentence above, and every sentence i've posted follows subject-verb-object order. Noam Chomsky says SVO is hard-wired into our brains by Mother Nature. The subject verbs the object, sometimes with an indirect object. I'll try to avoid compound sentences, and indirect objects, just for Lokiyn's sake. If you find SVO sentences to be in-"coherent", then Occam's razor can help you. You have a bigger problem than me. section 2 Abnormal psychology is an undergraduate course. A bacherlor's, and a master's, and a doctorate degree plus some years of field work would be your professor. Someone else gathered the data. Someone else made the diagnosis. Your professor handed you the conclusion. The work you did is like what Harvard had the Unibomber do. If you really could make a schizophrenia diagnosis on the D&D boards, you'd get a front page article in Psychology Today magazine. They'd still need a curvy model to sell that issue. I googled schizophrenia and dsm. You "know" you need a 295 point something to finish your diagnosis. If you are able to read this , I can't be catatonic. If you are hearing me speak to you , you might be delusional ; I don't know. C. Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms that meet Criterion A. The only way someone can conflate 1-month, 6-months, and 2 or 3 posts together, is to actually "be" on the far realm(s) of insanity. Yeah, the time trait. Now , I was trying to figure out what the problem was here. A possible answer is : Ego Whip attacks the ego, either by feelings of inferiority and worthlessness or by superiority and megalomania. Man , you got hit by two ego whips. One for section 1 and one for section 2. Throw in far realm(s) of insanity time. You must have been having a bad day. :weep: I feel for you , man , I really do. ------------------------------------------------ Some substance. A psicrystal is a psionic creature , and has a manifester level from it's owner. It can take Psicrystal Affinity feat. Let's pretend Lokiyn is "The Dungeon Master of Dungeon Masters". Let's move the battle to his turf alone. Completely ignore the entire rest of the XPH. Hidden Talent + Psiotheurgist feat. Doesn't matter whether Lokiyn's 1 ML temporary , zero ML , or non ML is in effect. If you have 1 caster level, Psiotheurgist adds 1 + ( non , zero , or 1 ) ML. Getting a Manifester level 1 + whatever Lokiyn wants it to be. Even in Lokiyn's Kick the Divine Mind game , Psiotheurgist + Hidden Talent gets you a psicrystal. Leebnee the Lesser can do it, Hive can do it. Blingy says Hi. Game Over.
Arakim 03-26-07, 07:21 AM	I must be bored. Even if a DM was retarded enough to let a Crystal make a crystal, diminishing returns would eventually cap you out. Crystals get half of the owners HP. So your second crystal gets 1/4, third gets 1/8, etc. Once you get below .5 HP... poof. Stillborn crystal. Assuming of course you can find a neuro-nummie DM that would let you get away with this.
awaken_D_M_golem 03-26-07, 05:40 PM	Hi Arakim, I haven't sparred with you before. Trust me, if you were bored, you wouldn't have posted ... ;) If a 1st level something-or-another got a Psicrystal, get 2nd psicrystal , etc. It would work like you posted. But context matters in D&D. If you are the Hive, and you have 2000+ feats at 1st level, and you put all of those feats into Improved Psicrystal, You get The Big Guy Is With Me build by Scion of Coldshard. And psly4mne's arbitrary build(s) happens. WizR eliminated the need for Leadership. Tempest Stormwind in the FAQ explains how/why psicrystal get feats. A 2000 HD psicrystal gets more feats than 2000. Put all of those into Improved Psicrystal ... up you go. Is it playable? No.
Wizard Random 03-26-07, 06:28 PM	Once you get below .5 HP... poof. Stillborn crystal. This is going into my quotes thread Kudos
Lokiyn 03-27-07, 09:02 PM	Lets see if we can fire a few neurons in that head of yours. Psicrystals do not have a caster level Psicrystals do not have a manifester level Hidden talent does not grant a manifester level Thus the psicrystal+ hidden talent cannot take psicrystal affinity Either Act like a coherent individual with a modicrum of intelligence, and post as such Or Consider yourself shunted into the same category as Oppo28's nonsence Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=688580) Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=725335) and Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=740521) You want anyone to take you seriously? Stop being deliberatly obtuse, and stop being vauge. Either post clearly with the information necessary or understand that you are going to be ignored.
AntiDjinn 03-29-07, 03:53 AM	Hidden Talent does not grant a manifester level. It lets you manifest a single selected power is if you had a manifester level -- it is quite explicit about this. The feat Psicrystal Power may work the same way; it also allows the manifestation of a single power, but doesn't state that it does not grant a manifester level. This epic feat might enable a psicrystal to later take Psicrystal Affinity (whether or not it can implant a personality fragment when it is itself a fragment is another matter). Realize: If your Hero crystal makes an Artiste Crystal then it gets a +3 bonus on craft checks, but you don't; it has the affinity to the secondary crystal not you. There is no verbiage in the feat that implies affinity is commutative. In any case, if I am a psion of world-shaking power and my pet rock actually spends a feat to get its own pet rock then I would probably kill it. Specifically, I would reform it away then reform the feat back in and inform the new chip off the old block that its predecessor was willed out of existence for wasting a resource as precious as a feat on a silly exercise.
Callix 09-28-07, 05:49 PM	Hidden Talent does not grant a manifester level. It lets you manifest a single selected power is if you had a manifester level -- it is quite explicit about this. The feat Psicrystal Power may work the same way; it also allows the manifestation of a single power, but doesn't state that it does not grant a manifester level. This epic feat might enable a psicrystal to later take Psicrystal Affinity (whether or not it can implant a personality fragment when it is itself a fragment is another matter). Realize: If your Hero crystal makes an Artiste Crystal then it gets a +3 bonus on craft checks, but you don't; it has the affinity to the secondary crystal not you. There is no verbiage in the feat that implies affinity is commutative. In any case, if I am a psion of world-shaking power and my pet rock actually spends a feat to get its own pet rock then I would probably kill it. Specifically, I would reform it away then reform the feat back in and inform the new chip off the old block that its predecessor was willed out of existence for wasting a resource as precious as a feat on a silly exercise. While I agree on all mechanical issues, the point of a pet rock with a pet rock is that it is supposedly capable of chaining, using Improved Psicrystal feats for accelerating returns. However, in order to do the arbitrary loop, the psicrystal must qualify for Psicrystal Power itself. A 21st level psion with Psicrystal Power and 7 Improved Psicrystal feats whose psicrystal uses all his level-up points to increase Intelligence (5 Imp Psi's if they add HD as well as extra bonuses, but the "as master" seems clear to me) has a psicrystal with Int 25 and one eighth level or lower power, a power point reserve, and a manifester level at least equal to its HD. It is also an epic creature, and can take Psicrystal Affinity, getting another pet rock. If it spends at least 7 feats on Improved Psicrystal, it gets a pet rock that qualifies for Psicrystal Power. If it takes Bestow Power, it can pass down the power it was bestowed. Unfortunately, the psicrystal doesn't have enough feats to repeat the loop. Since each Imp Psi can be replaced by an actual level of psion, a 25th level psion is capable of the infinite loop with Psicrystal Affinity and Bestow Power. The psicrystal spends all its points to increase its Int, and once the master takes Psicrystal Power at 21st, the psicrystal takes Psicrystal Affinity and Bestow Power. The psicrystal it acquires takes Psicrystal Affinity and Bestow Power. Etc. Thus, we have an infinite army of pet rocks, each with one use of a specific power per day, which cannot have an xp cost. The point, though, is that Improved Psicrystal does not add any HD to the psicrystal. It treats its master as one ML higher, but HD are not granted by the master's ML. They are direct from the master's HD. The upside of this is that prestige classes that lose MLs or non-manifesting dips don't interrupt the psicrystal feat progression.