Psigroupist Prestige Class [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psigroupist Prestige Class [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zzo38
08-03-07, 09:38 PM I need some comments about this prestige class, please.

Prerequisites: Ability to manifest 3rd level powers, Expanded Knowledge feat, Knowledge (psionics) 5 ranks, Psicraft 5 ranks

Hit dice: d4

Skills (2+Int modifier/Level): Concentration, Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft

PSIGROUPIST
Level Attack Ref Fort Will Special
1 +0 +0 +0 +0 Psigroup, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (norm), you gain 1 power point
2 +1 +0 +0 +0 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp)
3 +1 +1 +1 +1 Psigroup Knowledge 4 (norm)
4 +2 +1 +1 +1 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp)
5 +2 +1 +1 +1 Psigroup Knowledge 4 (norm)
6 +3 +2 +2 +2 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp)
7 +3 +2 +2 +2 Psigroup Knowledge 4 (norm)
8 +4 +2 +2 +2 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp)
9 +4 +3 +3 +3 Psigroup Knowledge 4 (norm)
10 +5 +3 +3 +3 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp)
etc.

Psigroup: You have 4 psigroups, which can have known powers, but you do not automatically have the ability to manifest it, you must first select the psigroup using the Select Psigroup power. You have the ability to learn Select Psigroup (but you do not automatically learn Select Psigroup).

Psigroup Knowledge: You learn powers in the psigroups, 1 power each psigroup that you are learning to. Some levels you learn only to 3 psigroups and some level to all 4 psigroups. At odd levels you learn them as you would normally with your base manifesting class, at even levels you learn them as you would with the Expanded Knowledge feat.

NEW POWER:

Select Psigroup
Telepathy
Level: 3
Display: Mental
Manifesting Time: 1 round (see text)
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Until psionic focus is lost or this power is manifested again
Power Points: 5

You need to be psionically focused to manifest this power. Select a psigroup you know. You become able to manifest 1st level powers from the selected psigroup (normally you cannot manifest any powers from any psigroup).
Augment: Every 1 additional power point and increasing the manifesting time by 3 rounds increases the maximum level of powers from the psigroup that you have access to. You are allowed to pay more power points than just that, and the number of power points paid to this power is the maximum manifester level that may be used for psigroup powers (affects maximum augmentation and other effects, and also you need at least the minimum manifester level required for that level of powers).
Special: Any class can learn this power but only if you have the Psigroupist prestige class.
kyeudo
08-04-07, 12:18 AM First, what the heck is a psigroup supposed to be?

Second, How the heck does the augment on that power supposed to work?

Third, Why the heck would anyone ever, ever want to take a 3/10 manifesting class? Especialy when you have to burn power points to manifest you own powers?

This class isn't worth the pixels its printed on. pixels are free, so thats saying something.
zzo38
08-04-07, 11:08 AM First, what the heck is a psigroup supposed to be?

Second, How the heck does the augment on that power supposed to work?

Third, Why the heck would anyone ever, ever want to take a 3/10 manifesting class? Especialy when you have to burn power points to manifest you own powers?

This class isn't worth the pixels its printed on. pixels are free, so thats saying something.

You are right. But, I was trying to make a class you learn more powers. It is supposed to make you more versatile at the cost of costing more power points to activate them. Would (2+2x) manifesting progression be better than the (2+3x) I have now?

Anyways, psigroups are explained there. If you still need help, here is a example:
You call your psigroups A,B,C,D (this is an example, you could call them something else if you wanted to).
At PrC level 1, you learn: A=Conceal Thoughts, B=Empathy, C=Feat Leech.
At PrC level 2, you learn: A=Deceleration, C=Levitate, D=Object Reading. You also learn 2 powers from +1 existing manifester level.
At PrC level 3, you learn: A=Detect Hostile Intent, B=Detect Hostile Intent, D=Detect Hostile Intent. (you are allowed to learn the same power in multiple psigroups if you want to)
At PrC level 4, you learn: A=Ego Whip, B=Expansion, C=Astral Traveler, D=Wall Walker.
and so on.
So now your psigroups are:
A: Conceal Thoughts, Deceleration, Detect Hostile Intent, Ego Whip
B: Empathy, Detect Hostile Intent, Expansion
C: Feat Leech, Levitate, Astral Traveler
D: Object Reading, Detect Hostile Intent, Wall Walker

Now I explain the augment of Select Psigroup power: First you select a maximum level and then spend the PP to augment. For example, if you select 3rd level and spend 8 PP to augment (costing 13 PP in total), then it takes 3 rounds, you have access to 3rd level psigroup powers, and the maximum manifester level when manifesting those powers is 13. But, even for 2nd level powers you need to augment at least 1, to make a total of 6 PP, because that is also how it works.

Now, can you please write more comment?
Tiarn
08-04-07, 11:31 AM ... But, I was trying to make a class you learn more powers. It is supposed to make you more versatile at the cost of costing more power points to activate them...

They have a class for versatile power manifesting. It's called an erudite. If you want to make a prestige class that gives you more powers known at the cost of manifesting levels then go for that. But Kyeudo is right, no one would ever take a prestige class where they lost 7 levels of manifesting simply to get more powers known (especially with the mechanics you have presented where you spend power points and cannot use your psionic focus as long as you wish to actually manifest those powers)

Also, this:
Psigroup: You have 4 psigroups, which can have known powers, but you do not automatically have the ability to manifest it, you must first select the psigroup using the Select Psigroup power. You have the ability to learn Select Psigroup (but you do not automatically learn Select Psigroup).
is in no way clear enough. Only after reading your example could I even begin to fathom how this ability was supposed to work. This just doesn't say enough.
zzo38
08-04-07, 11:54 AM They have a class for versatile power manifesting. It's called an erudite. If you want to make a prestige class that gives you more powers known at the cost of manifesting levels then go for that. But Kyeudo is right, no one would ever take a prestige class where they lost 7 levels of manifesting simply to get more powers known (especially with the mechanics you have presented where you spend power points and cannot use your psionic focus as long as you wish to actually manifest those powers)
I know about the erudite, but I already made a character and want to use the psion character with this prestige class, but I also want to make the prestige class balanced before I use it (my character is currently at level 2, so I won't enter the prestige class yet, we have time to balance it). So how would you fix my prestige class? Would to change the existng manifesting progression to (2+2x)? Or something else? What else should be changed? This is the comments I need, which is the ones to fix this prestige class for making more sense.
zzo38
08-05-07, 05:10 PM OK, I corrected it. Is it good now? I would probably use this, but I want to make sure it is not too powerful
kyeudo
08-05-07, 11:05 PM OK, I corrected it. Is it good now? I would probably use this, but I want to make sure it is not too powerful

You still have same problems.

First, the Psigroups are poorly explained, and why do you not learn a new power in each of them at each level? If I was forced to take this class, I would just stack 3 psigroups with the good stuff and ditch the fourth.

Second, The Select Psigroup power is wonky. Since the earliest level of psigroupist that you can learn it is 2nd, you can't even use this classes signature class feature until then. Select Psigroup should be a class ability instead of a power.

Third, Its 5/10 manifesting!! Metamind has the same manifesting scale, and no one will touch that with a 10 ft pole even if it has the awesome Font of Power ability. This class has even less to entice you in.

This class is so bad I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Tiarn
08-06-07, 01:54 AM ...
This class is so bad I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
I would, then they'd be easier to defeat. :D
OK, I corrected it. Is it good now? I would probably use this, but I want to make sure it is not too powerful

As Kyeudo says above, you have the exact problems you had before.

The psigroup ability is not clear. There isn't any way to tell what you're talking about without reading the example (which is poor writing, examples should make things easier to understand but not be necessary).

At most you should have three psigroups, explain in detail how they work, and then make "selecting" a psigroup cost something such as expending your psionic focus, not be a power on its own.

The class should lose at most 3 levels of manifesting, otherwise it's not worth it to a psion, the primary manifester! And even then it should give some decent benefits, trading manifesting levels simply to get more lower level powers known is not worth it. You could do that as a psion by just choosing a lot of low-level powers, then augment them. And you'd be three times as effective.

If it were me, I'd ditch the psigroup thing completely. Just give them some sort of ability that allows more powers known, like expanded knowledge a lot.

Why exactly do you need that many more powers known, anyway? A psion gets 36 over the course of their career, that's not enough?
zzo38
08-06-07, 11:04 AM OK, I should rewrite it completely. Is this better for a class learning more powers?
Expanded Knowledge, spell (1st-level), non-flushing stones
+1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge
+1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge
Expanded Knowledge, spell (2nd-level)
+1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge
+1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge
Expanded Knowledge, spell (3rd-level)
+1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge
+1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge
Expanded Knowledge, spell (4th-level), bonus psionic feat

Normal knowledge: Learn a power as you normally would with your existing manifesting class.
Non-flushing stones: You can use power stones without flushing them by spending twice the number of power points that the stored power costs. You cannot spend more power points than your manifester level. At PrC level 1 it may be used on stones containing 1st level powers, at PrC level 2 with 2nd level powers, etc.
Spell: You can learn a spell. At 1st PrC level it can be up to 1st level spell, at 4th PrC level up to 2nd level spell, and so on. The spell can be from sorcerer/wizard, cleric, druid, or any domain list. All components still apply (so if it has a somatic component, spell failure applies). Metamagic feats can be applied if you know them, but must be applied at the time you learn this spell. Each spell learned can be cast only once per day (unless you learn the same spell multiple times), and you must be psionically focused (but it does not expend your focus), and it costs power points equal to twice the spell level + 2 (3 power points for a 0 level spell) (you cannot spend more power points than your manifester level). Your caster level is equal to the PrC level. You are allowed to reset the number of times a spell can be cast per day (so it may be cast again today) by spending the same number of power points used to cast the spell and expending your psionic focus, and takes 1 minute to do so.
Epic: At epic levels, you can continue this prestige class, including existing manifester level, expanded knowledge, normal knowledge, spells.

Of course I need to change the name as well. This one loses 4 manifesting levels, one more than three, 4 seems to fit better in the list, though.
kyeudo
08-06-07, 11:13 AM If all you want is a psionic class that learns more powers than the standard psion, play a erudite. Its twice as easy, and it beats your prestige classes hands down.

Your fix is somewhat better than your origional, but it loses out to the erudite base class in every way, right down to the non-flushing stone mechanic.

If you want something that actualy beats a erudite for learning powers, you have to come up with a balanced method by which your prestige class can manifest any power there is.
zzo38
08-06-07, 11:59 AM If all you want is a psionic class that learns more powers than the standard psion, play a erudite. Its twice as easy, and it beats your prestige classes hands down.

Your fix is somewhat better than your origional, but it loses out to the erudite base class in every way, right down to the non-flushing stone mechanic.

If you want something that actualy beats a erudite for learning powers, you have to come up with a balanced method by which your prestige class can manifest any power there is.

I already have 3 psion levels. If I take a erudite level at this point, I would not be able to use the extra learning class feature anyways, and I would also be able to manifest only a few unique powers per day. This prestige class is supposed to let you learn some more powers (and a few other things) even if you aren't a erudite.

And my prestige class isn't supposed to be able to manifest any power there is just automatically, that would be too much. Would an additional expanded knowledge at level 2,5,8 be OK? Becuase now a psion/PrC would learn 8 powers in 3 levels instead of 6 powers in 3 levels. I want a class that is not too powerful but can still learn more powers than you normally can. Purchasing a lot of power stones also helps even though it costs more power points than normal. Adding Use Psionic Device to the class skills list and +1 to Use Psionic Device per 2 PrC levels for checks that you are attempting to use a power stone (whether addressing it, emulating a power on your class list, or emulating an ability score). Would these things fix it? Would it be too weak or too powerful? Would it be almost OK?
kyeudo
08-06-07, 07:49 PM Here's the deal:

Either this "Learn more powers than normal" class provides some benifit that is more useful than straight erudite, or it will not be useful at all.

Thats the long and the short of it. Adding more Expanded Knowledge bonus feats won't make this class any more playable.
Tiarn
08-07-07, 09:59 AM Here's the deal:

Either this "Learn more powers than normal" class provides some benifit that is more useful than straight erudite, or it will not be useful at all.

Thats the long and the short of it. Adding more Expanded Knowledge bonus feats won't make this class any more playable.

Kyeudo's absolutely right.

Besides, it seems foolish to attempt to design an entire prestige class simply because "I didn't think to make an erudite when I was creating my character."

If you want to make a class/prestige class, I suggest you read this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=879725). Your class goes against the first principle listed and that is, "Is there a reason to create a new class?"

To put it in an excellent phrasing:
...oftentimes the exact same concept could be managed by existing classes (and done with similar or sometimes better mechanical elegance).

Your concept can be played (and played well) by taking the erudite class. If you want to make a prestige class it's going to have to be a bit more enticing than "if you forgot about the erudite here's a prestige class that kinda turns the psion into a watered-down version of it."
AnonymouseRex
10-13-07, 11:16 PM wow.

That erudite class is pretty fraggin scarry, but lets look at this "Psigroupist" though I would not hesitate to change the name of the class if I were you.

This thread seems to have stalled oh.. two months ago :uh-huh: but its still on your list zzo....

You want to have an erudite like ability to access more powers. Like with you Psionical Magician you are intending to employ an actual power to make this happen. A special "this class only" power in fact. What I think you should do is tether the collection of power groups to psicrystals. Think about it.

The psicrystal represents a "shard" of the psions consiousness. So the pre-req for this class becomes ... having at least two psicrystals. Thats a good ..and odd.. req that will differentiate this class from the erudite.

Then make it so that you have your default power selection always. Then make your triggering manifestation such that it (be creative, but) "jams the psicrystal into forehead .. and cannot physically remove it for x hours" some such thing.

Hows that sound?
zzo38computer
10-14-07, 11:32 AM Actually, I don't need this class it was an old one. It was in my list only because I never remove things from my list.

Although, your (AnonymouseRex) idea is interesting, maybe you could make something like that if you wanted to, but I decided not to work on this class anymore.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zzo38 08-03-07, 09:38 PM	I need some comments about this prestige class, please. Prerequisites: Ability to manifest 3rd level powers, Expanded Knowledge feat, Knowledge (psionics) 5 ranks, Psicraft 5 ranks Hit dice: d4 Skills (2+Int modifier/Level): Concentration, Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft PSIGROUPIST Level Attack Ref Fort Will Special 1 +0 +0 +0 +0 Psigroup, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (norm), you gain 1 power point 2 +1 +0 +0 +0 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp) 3 +1 +1 +1 +1 Psigroup Knowledge 4 (norm) 4 +2 +1 +1 +1 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp) 5 +2 +1 +1 +1 Psigroup Knowledge 4 (norm) 6 +3 +2 +2 +2 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp) 7 +3 +2 +2 +2 Psigroup Knowledge 4 (norm) 8 +4 +2 +2 +2 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp) 9 +4 +3 +3 +3 Psigroup Knowledge 4 (norm) 10 +5 +3 +3 +3 +1 existing manifester level, Psigroup Knowledge 3 (exp) etc. Psigroup: You have 4 psigroups, which can have known powers, but you do not automatically have the ability to manifest it, you must first select the psigroup using the Select Psigroup power. You have the ability to learn Select Psigroup (but you do not automatically learn Select Psigroup). Psigroup Knowledge: You learn powers in the psigroups, 1 power each psigroup that you are learning to. Some levels you learn only to 3 psigroups and some level to all 4 psigroups. At odd levels you learn them as you would normally with your base manifesting class, at even levels you learn them as you would with the Expanded Knowledge feat. NEW POWER: Select Psigroup Telepathy Level: 3 Display: Mental Manifesting Time: 1 round (see text) Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Until psionic focus is lost or this power is manifested again Power Points: 5 You need to be psionically focused to manifest this power. Select a psigroup you know. You become able to manifest 1st level powers from the selected psigroup (normally you cannot manifest any powers from any psigroup). Augment: Every 1 additional power point and increasing the manifesting time by 3 rounds increases the maximum level of powers from the psigroup that you have access to. You are allowed to pay more power points than just that, and the number of power points paid to this power is the maximum manifester level that may be used for psigroup powers (affects maximum augmentation and other effects, and also you need at least the minimum manifester level required for that level of powers). Special: Any class can learn this power but only if you have the Psigroupist prestige class.
kyeudo 08-04-07, 12:18 AM	First, what the heck is a psigroup supposed to be? Second, How the heck does the augment on that power supposed to work? Third, Why the heck would anyone ever, ever want to take a 3/10 manifesting class? Especialy when you have to burn power points to manifest you own powers? This class isn't worth the pixels its printed on. pixels are free, so thats saying something.
zzo38 08-04-07, 11:08 AM	First, what the heck is a psigroup supposed to be? Second, How the heck does the augment on that power supposed to work? Third, Why the heck would anyone ever, ever want to take a 3/10 manifesting class? Especialy when you have to burn power points to manifest you own powers? This class isn't worth the pixels its printed on. pixels are free, so thats saying something. You are right. But, I was trying to make a class you learn more powers. It is supposed to make you more versatile at the cost of costing more power points to activate them. Would (2+2x) manifesting progression be better than the (2+3x) I have now? Anyways, psigroups are explained there. If you still need help, here is a example: You call your psigroups A,B,C,D (this is an example, you could call them something else if you wanted to). At PrC level 1, you learn: A=Conceal Thoughts, B=Empathy, C=Feat Leech. At PrC level 2, you learn: A=Deceleration, C=Levitate, D=Object Reading. You also learn 2 powers from +1 existing manifester level. At PrC level 3, you learn: A=Detect Hostile Intent, B=Detect Hostile Intent, D=Detect Hostile Intent. (you are allowed to learn the same power in multiple psigroups if you want to) At PrC level 4, you learn: A=Ego Whip, B=Expansion, C=Astral Traveler, D=Wall Walker. and so on. So now your psigroups are: A: Conceal Thoughts, Deceleration, Detect Hostile Intent, Ego Whip B: Empathy, Detect Hostile Intent, Expansion C: Feat Leech, Levitate, Astral Traveler D: Object Reading, Detect Hostile Intent, Wall Walker Now I explain the augment of Select Psigroup power: First you select a maximum level and then spend the PP to augment. For example, if you select 3rd level and spend 8 PP to augment (costing 13 PP in total), then it takes 3 rounds, you have access to 3rd level psigroup powers, and the maximum manifester level when manifesting those powers is 13. But, even for 2nd level powers you need to augment at least 1, to make a total of 6 PP, because that is also how it works. Now, can you please write more comment?
Tiarn 08-04-07, 11:31 AM	... But, I was trying to make a class you learn more powers. It is supposed to make you more versatile at the cost of costing more power points to activate them... They have a class for versatile power manifesting. It's called an erudite. If you want to make a prestige class that gives you more powers known at the cost of manifesting levels then go for that. But Kyeudo is right, no one would ever take a prestige class where they lost 7 levels of manifesting simply to get more powers known (especially with the mechanics you have presented where you spend power points and cannot use your psionic focus as long as you wish to actually manifest those powers) Also, this: Psigroup: You have 4 psigroups, which can have known powers, but you do not automatically have the ability to manifest it, you must first select the psigroup using the Select Psigroup power. You have the ability to learn Select Psigroup (but you do not automatically learn Select Psigroup). is in no way clear enough. Only after reading your example could I even begin to fathom how this ability was supposed to work. This just doesn't say enough.
zzo38 08-04-07, 11:54 AM	They have a class for versatile power manifesting. It's called an erudite. If you want to make a prestige class that gives you more powers known at the cost of manifesting levels then go for that. But Kyeudo is right, no one would ever take a prestige class where they lost 7 levels of manifesting simply to get more powers known (especially with the mechanics you have presented where you spend power points and cannot use your psionic focus as long as you wish to actually manifest those powers) I know about the erudite, but I already made a character and want to use the psion character with this prestige class, but I also want to make the prestige class balanced before I use it (my character is currently at level 2, so I won't enter the prestige class yet, we have time to balance it). So how would you fix my prestige class? Would to change the existng manifesting progression to (2+2x)? Or something else? What else should be changed? This is the comments I need, which is the ones to fix this prestige class for making more sense.
zzo38 08-05-07, 05:10 PM	OK, I corrected it. Is it good now? I would probably use this, but I want to make sure it is not too powerful
kyeudo 08-05-07, 11:05 PM	OK, I corrected it. Is it good now? I would probably use this, but I want to make sure it is not too powerful You still have same problems. First, the Psigroups are poorly explained, and why do you not learn a new power in each of them at each level? If I was forced to take this class, I would just stack 3 psigroups with the good stuff and ditch the fourth. Second, The Select Psigroup power is wonky. Since the earliest level of psigroupist that you can learn it is 2nd, you can't even use this classes signature class feature until then. Select Psigroup should be a class ability instead of a power. Third, Its 5/10 manifesting!! Metamind has the same manifesting scale, and no one will touch that with a 10 ft pole even if it has the awesome Font of Power ability. This class has even less to entice you in. This class is so bad I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Tiarn 08-06-07, 01:54 AM	... This class is so bad I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I would, then they'd be easier to defeat. :D OK, I corrected it. Is it good now? I would probably use this, but I want to make sure it is not too powerful As Kyeudo says above, you have the exact problems you had before. The psigroup ability is not clear. There isn't any way to tell what you're talking about without reading the example (which is poor writing, examples should make things easier to understand but not be necessary). At most you should have three psigroups, explain in detail how they work, and then make "selecting" a psigroup cost something such as expending your psionic focus, not be a power on its own. The class should lose at most 3 levels of manifesting, otherwise it's not worth it to a psion, the primary manifester! And even then it should give some decent benefits, trading manifesting levels simply to get more lower level powers known is not worth it. You could do that as a psion by just choosing a lot of low-level powers, then augment them. And you'd be three times as effective. If it were me, I'd ditch the psigroup thing completely. Just give them some sort of ability that allows more powers known, like expanded knowledge a lot. Why exactly do you need that many more powers known, anyway? A psion gets 36 over the course of their career, that's not enough?
zzo38 08-06-07, 11:04 AM	OK, I should rewrite it completely. Is this better for a class learning more powers? Expanded Knowledge, spell (1st-level), non-flushing stones +1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge +1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge Expanded Knowledge, spell (2nd-level) +1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge +1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge Expanded Knowledge, spell (3rd-level) +1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge +1 existing manifester level, normal knowledge Expanded Knowledge, spell (4th-level), bonus psionic feat Normal knowledge: Learn a power as you normally would with your existing manifesting class. Non-flushing stones: You can use power stones without flushing them by spending twice the number of power points that the stored power costs. You cannot spend more power points than your manifester level. At PrC level 1 it may be used on stones containing 1st level powers, at PrC level 2 with 2nd level powers, etc. Spell: You can learn a spell. At 1st PrC level it can be up to 1st level spell, at 4th PrC level up to 2nd level spell, and so on. The spell can be from sorcerer/wizard, cleric, druid, or any domain list. All components still apply (so if it has a somatic component, spell failure applies). Metamagic feats can be applied if you know them, but must be applied at the time you learn this spell. Each spell learned can be cast only once per day (unless you learn the same spell multiple times), and you must be psionically focused (but it does not expend your focus), and it costs power points equal to twice the spell level + 2 (3 power points for a 0 level spell) (you cannot spend more power points than your manifester level). Your caster level is equal to the PrC level. You are allowed to reset the number of times a spell can be cast per day (so it may be cast again today) by spending the same number of power points used to cast the spell and expending your psionic focus, and takes 1 minute to do so. Epic: At epic levels, you can continue this prestige class, including existing manifester level, expanded knowledge, normal knowledge, spells. Of course I need to change the name as well. This one loses 4 manifesting levels, one more than three, 4 seems to fit better in the list, though.
kyeudo 08-06-07, 11:13 AM	If all you want is a psionic class that learns more powers than the standard psion, play a erudite. Its twice as easy, and it beats your prestige classes hands down. Your fix is somewhat better than your origional, but it loses out to the erudite base class in every way, right down to the non-flushing stone mechanic. If you want something that actualy beats a erudite for learning powers, you have to come up with a balanced method by which your prestige class can manifest any power there is.
zzo38 08-06-07, 11:59 AM	If all you want is a psionic class that learns more powers than the standard psion, play a erudite. Its twice as easy, and it beats your prestige classes hands down. Your fix is somewhat better than your origional, but it loses out to the erudite base class in every way, right down to the non-flushing stone mechanic. If you want something that actualy beats a erudite for learning powers, you have to come up with a balanced method by which your prestige class can manifest any power there is. I already have 3 psion levels. If I take a erudite level at this point, I would not be able to use the extra learning class feature anyways, and I would also be able to manifest only a few unique powers per day. This prestige class is supposed to let you learn some more powers (and a few other things) even if you aren't a erudite. And my prestige class isn't supposed to be able to manifest any power there is just automatically, that would be too much. Would an additional expanded knowledge at level 2,5,8 be OK? Becuase now a psion/PrC would learn 8 powers in 3 levels instead of 6 powers in 3 levels. I want a class that is not too powerful but can still learn more powers than you normally can. Purchasing a lot of power stones also helps even though it costs more power points than normal. Adding Use Psionic Device to the class skills list and +1 to Use Psionic Device per 2 PrC levels for checks that you are attempting to use a power stone (whether addressing it, emulating a power on your class list, or emulating an ability score). Would these things fix it? Would it be too weak or too powerful? Would it be almost OK?
kyeudo 08-06-07, 07:49 PM	Here's the deal: Either this "Learn more powers than normal" class provides some benifit that is more useful than straight erudite, or it will not be useful at all. Thats the long and the short of it. Adding more Expanded Knowledge bonus feats won't make this class any more playable.
Tiarn 08-07-07, 09:59 AM	Here's the deal: Either this "Learn more powers than normal" class provides some benifit that is more useful than straight erudite, or it will not be useful at all. Thats the long and the short of it. Adding more Expanded Knowledge bonus feats won't make this class any more playable. Kyeudo's absolutely right. Besides, it seems foolish to attempt to design an entire prestige class simply because "I didn't think to make an erudite when I was creating my character." If you want to make a class/prestige class, I suggest you read this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=879725). Your class goes against the first principle listed and that is, "Is there a reason to create a new class?" To put it in an excellent phrasing: ...oftentimes the exact same concept could be managed by existing classes (and done with similar or sometimes better mechanical elegance). Your concept can be played (and played well) by taking the erudite class. If you want to make a prestige class it's going to have to be a bit more enticing than "if you forgot about the erudite here's a prestige class that kinda turns the psion into a watered-down version of it."
AnonymouseRex 10-13-07, 11:16 PM	wow. That erudite class is pretty fraggin scarry, but lets look at this "Psigroupist" though I would not hesitate to change the name of the class if I were you. This thread seems to have stalled oh.. two months ago :uh-huh: but its still on your list zzo.... You want to have an erudite like ability to access more powers. Like with you Psionical Magician you are intending to employ an actual power to make this happen. A special "this class only" power in fact. What I think you should do is tether the collection of power groups to psicrystals. Think about it. The psicrystal represents a "shard" of the psions consiousness. So the pre-req for this class becomes ... having at least two psicrystals. Thats a good ..and odd.. req that will differentiate this class from the erudite. Then make it so that you have your default power selection always. Then make your triggering manifestation such that it (be creative, but) "jams the psicrystal into forehead .. and cannot physically remove it for x hours" some such thing. Hows that sound?
zzo38computer 10-14-07, 11:32 AM	Actually, I don't need this class it was an old one. It was in my list only because I never remove things from my list. Although, your (AnonymouseRex) idea is interesting, maybe you could make something like that if you wanted to, but I decided not to work on this class anymore.