Psilich? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Psilich? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LumpyTheDwarf
04-20-07, 02:07 AM i was looking thru the books that i have access to and i'm trying to find a psionic lich, but without the whole undead thing. I was hoping to gain a ectoplasmic body. the gained abilites would prolly be different, but i'm bad at stating stuff out
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-20-07, 02:20 AM Psion Uncarnate. It's a prestige class, but it does all that and more. It's basically an Unbodied progression.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionUncarnate.htm
Tempest Stormwind
04-20-07, 02:23 AM i was looking thru the books that i have access to and i'm trying to find a psionic lich, but without the whole undead thing. I was hoping to gain a ectoplasmic body. the gained abilites would prolly be different, but i'm bad at stating stuff out

There's also the Mindborn, in Untapped Potential. It used to exist on the boards as well but seems to have been deleted (not archived). Essentially, you transcended your physcial body into a being of pure psychic essence, leaving nothing but your psicrystal behind as a physical anchor.
Suldarr'essalar
04-20-07, 10:15 AM There's also spectral savant - a "psionic lich" in Complete Psionic. It's an incorporeal undead with more or less lich abilities.
nobodez
04-20-07, 12:18 PM There's also spectral savant - a "psionic lich" in Complete Psionic. It's an incorporeal undead with more or less lich abilities.

This is my favorite, as it has the same sort of requirements, but has a psionic flavor and isn't just a psionic-x.
Tempest Stormwind
04-20-07, 01:19 PM This is my favorite, as it has the same sort of requirements, but has a psionic flavor and isn't just a psionic-x.

Except it's undead and vampiric, and mechanically broken (if you know the Shadow Eft power).
kyeudo
04-20-07, 01:34 PM I always liked Spectral Savant. It was one of the few things in Complete Psi that wasn't completely flavorless, broken, or retarded, plus it made a great psionic lich/vampire.

Question: How is Spectral Savant broken with Shadow Eft? I just don't see it.
Tempest Stormwind
04-20-07, 01:39 PM Question: How is Spectral Savant broken with Shadow Eft? I just don't see it.Compare how many power points it takes to summon a shadow eft versus how many power points you can steal from one. Considering the big drawback to the spectral savant is supposedly its need to feed, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
Suldarr'essalar
04-20-07, 05:16 PM Compare how many power points it takes to summon a shadow eft versus how many power points you can steal from one. Considering the big drawback to the spectral savant is supposedly its need to feed, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

It's not a problem of Spectral Savant. It's a problem of psionic powers from CPsi being to much like spells. If it weren't for stupid powers that have more arcane/divine flavor than psionic flavor, this "build" wouldn't be to powerful. Besides, only evil spectral savants may replenish their power in such way ("summon shadow eft" has evil descriptor).
Tempest Stormwind
04-20-07, 05:36 PM Psions aren't clerics. Just because a power has the Evil descriptor doesn't mean it's in any way banned from good psions manifesting it.
adgramaine
04-20-07, 05:45 PM If Thoughts Could Kill (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1588461068/sr=8-1/qid=1177104940/ref=olp_product_details/103-9934662-9067807?ie=UTF8&qid=1177104940&sr=8-1&seller=)

Psilich template contained within. It's by Bruce Cordell. 'Nuff said.
Tempest Stormwind
04-20-07, 05:47 PM If Thoughts Could Kill (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1588461068/sr=8-1/qid=1177104940/ref=olp_product_details/103-9934662-9067807?ie=UTF8&qid=1177104940&sr=8-1&seller=)

Psilich template contained within. It's by Bruce Cordell. 'Nuff said.

And that abobination is neither lichlike nor psionic-like.

It was in response to that, actually, that I wrote the mindborn in the first place.
Sylvaroth
04-20-07, 06:09 PM TS' Mindborn (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-354277)

Thought this might help, Temp.

Btw. I added your article to the d0t, thanks very much!
Might want to take a look (link's in my sig).
adgramaine
04-20-07, 06:16 PM TS' Mindborn (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-354277)

That was quite a good read - thanks for posting the link!

I stand corrected - use the link. :D
Suldarr'essalar
04-21-07, 02:54 AM Psions aren't clerics. Just because a power has the Evil descriptor doesn't mean it's in any way banned from good psions manifesting it.

Yes, I know, but manifesting powers with evil descriptor is an act of evil, thus it is off limits for any creature with for example exalted feats. Also, a willingly commited acts of evil will eventually change your character to evil.

My point is: Spectral Savant is good as it is, the powers in CPsi are not. Banning Specrtral Savant just because there are some poor powers in CPsi is just like baning druid, because in some splatbook there's a animal, that makes one druid build broken.
Tempest Stormwind
04-21-07, 12:49 PM Yes, I know, but manifesting powers with evil descriptor is an act of evil, thus it is off limits for any creature with for example exalted feats. Exalted characters are so Good they make your average paladin look like Ted Bundy. I'd hardly consider that a representative or even *majority* sample of Good psions.Also, a willingly commited acts of evil will eventually change your character to evil.Again, mechanics-wise, it will not. Find the rules for changing alignment; I'm willing to bet that outside of a few cursed items (Helm of Opposite Alignment, for instance) you will find none.

Alignment is a silly and stupid part of the game that should be minimalized. Psionics is great about that since before CPsi, only three powers had anything to deal with alignment (Aura Alteration, Mind Seed, and Psionic Revivify). Post-CPsi, we see that the Good mantle is not based around doing good but rather about fighting evil, and that psions can apparently summon creatures.My point is: Spectral Savant is good as it is, the powers in CPsi are not. Banning Specrtral Savant just because there are some poor powers in CPsi is just like baning druid, because in some splatbook there's a animal, that makes one druid build broken.Well, I'd ban the druid anyway, or at least cancel wild shape. There honestly *is* such an animal -- at low levels, it's the fleshraker dinosaur, for instance, which has nearly as much combat prowess as a tiger but is available as a 4th level animal companion and a 5th level wild shape. Allowing that would sure make the druid seem a hell of a lot stronger than he is -- but it wouldn't change the druid's actual strength.

There are other ways to gain unlimited PP, but the savant just has the easiest ones -- which runs counter to its flavor, I might add, meaning either the fluff or the crunch is poorly written. It's CPsi; I'm erring on the side of bad crunch.
Suldarr'essalar
04-21-07, 05:30 PM mechanics-wise, it will not. Find the rules for changing alignment; I'm willing to bet that outside of a few cursed items (Helm of Opposite Alignment, for instance) you will find none.Well, first of all, you have the 0th rule (Golden rule, or how it is called) in DMG page 134. Then we also have info on casting evil spells by non evil casters on page 8 BoVD. And Tempest, I'm not going to instruct what is "the way of playing in DnD", but if your sessions are 100% RAW, then I salut you. Common sense is worth more than 100 pages of rules.

Alignment is a silly and stupid part of the game that should be minimalized. Sorry for OT, but why shoul it be? Alignemnts are forces that define DnD. You may minimalize them in your games, but there's no point in doing so in a discussion.

Post-CPsi, we see that the Good mantle is not based around doing good but rather about fighting evil, and that psions can apparently summon creatures.But that's the problem of poorly done powers, not a template, class or a race, that happens to benefit from them.
For example: Pun-pun is not broken because it has access to Su abilities of Sarrukh. It is broken, because Sarrukh has such broken abilities.

Well, I'd ban the druid anyway, or at least cancel wild shape. There honestly *is* such an animal
Yeah, I know. You can do anything with enough splatbooks. When druid was designed, there probably were only animals from MM1, and that doesn't make him overpowered. The fact, that he can benefit from materials from splatbooks also doesn't make him overpowered. It's not a problem of the druid, it's a problem of materials from splats'. I can give you another example: is a warforged psion/metamind broken? Of course not. But if we add CPsi power temporal reiteration along with PM, it suddenly becomes so. And again, is this the problem of broken metamind, or powers?

There are other ways to gain unlimited PP, but the savant just has the easiest ones -- which runs counter to its flavorI haven't noticed the flavor of a power-point beggar. On the contrary, it "has an amazing array of psionic powers and abilities at his disposal".

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LumpyTheDwarf 04-20-07, 02:07 AM	i was looking thru the books that i have access to and i'm trying to find a psionic lich, but without the whole undead thing. I was hoping to gain a ectoplasmic body. the gained abilites would prolly be different, but i'm bad at stating stuff out
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-20-07, 02:20 AM	Psion Uncarnate. It's a prestige class, but it does all that and more. It's basically an Unbodied progression. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionUncarnate.htm
Tempest Stormwind 04-20-07, 02:23 AM	i was looking thru the books that i have access to and i'm trying to find a psionic lich, but without the whole undead thing. I was hoping to gain a ectoplasmic body. the gained abilites would prolly be different, but i'm bad at stating stuff out There's also the Mindborn, in Untapped Potential. It used to exist on the boards as well but seems to have been deleted (not archived). Essentially, you transcended your physcial body into a being of pure psychic essence, leaving nothing but your psicrystal behind as a physical anchor.
Suldarr'essalar 04-20-07, 10:15 AM	There's also spectral savant - a "psionic lich" in Complete Psionic. It's an incorporeal undead with more or less lich abilities.
nobodez 04-20-07, 12:18 PM	There's also spectral savant - a "psionic lich" in Complete Psionic. It's an incorporeal undead with more or less lich abilities. This is my favorite, as it has the same sort of requirements, but has a psionic flavor and isn't just a psionic-x.
Tempest Stormwind 04-20-07, 01:19 PM	This is my favorite, as it has the same sort of requirements, but has a psionic flavor and isn't just a psionic-x. Except it's undead and vampiric, and mechanically broken (if you know the Shadow Eft power).
kyeudo 04-20-07, 01:34 PM	I always liked Spectral Savant. It was one of the few things in Complete Psi that wasn't completely flavorless, broken, or retarded, plus it made a great psionic lich/vampire. Question: How is Spectral Savant broken with Shadow Eft? I just don't see it.
Tempest Stormwind 04-20-07, 01:39 PM	Question: How is Spectral Savant broken with Shadow Eft? I just don't see it.Compare how many power points it takes to summon a shadow eft versus how many power points you can steal from one. Considering the big drawback to the spectral savant is supposedly its need to feed, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
Suldarr'essalar 04-20-07, 05:16 PM	Compare how many power points it takes to summon a shadow eft versus how many power points you can steal from one. Considering the big drawback to the spectral savant is supposedly its need to feed, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? It's not a problem of Spectral Savant. It's a problem of psionic powers from CPsi being to much like spells. If it weren't for stupid powers that have more arcane/divine flavor than psionic flavor, this "build" wouldn't be to powerful. Besides, only evil spectral savants may replenish their power in such way ("summon shadow eft" has evil descriptor).
Tempest Stormwind 04-20-07, 05:36 PM	Psions aren't clerics. Just because a power has the Evil descriptor doesn't mean it's in any way banned from good psions manifesting it.
adgramaine 04-20-07, 05:45 PM	If Thoughts Could Kill (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1588461068/sr=8-1/qid=1177104940/ref=olp_product_details/103-9934662-9067807?ie=UTF8&qid=1177104940&sr=8-1&seller=) Psilich template contained within. It's by Bruce Cordell. 'Nuff said.
Tempest Stormwind 04-20-07, 05:47 PM	If Thoughts Could Kill (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1588461068/sr=8-1/qid=1177104940/ref=olp_product_details/103-9934662-9067807?ie=UTF8&qid=1177104940&sr=8-1&seller=) Psilich template contained within. It's by Bruce Cordell. 'Nuff said. And that abobination is neither lichlike nor psionic-like. It was in response to that, actually, that I wrote the mindborn in the first place.
Sylvaroth 04-20-07, 06:09 PM	TS' Mindborn (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-354277) Thought this might help, Temp. Btw. I added your article to the d0t, thanks very much! Might want to take a look (link's in my sig).
adgramaine 04-20-07, 06:16 PM	TS' Mindborn (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-354277) That was quite a good read - thanks for posting the link! I stand corrected - use the link. :D
Suldarr'essalar 04-21-07, 02:54 AM	Psions aren't clerics. Just because a power has the Evil descriptor doesn't mean it's in any way banned from good psions manifesting it. Yes, I know, but manifesting powers with evil descriptor is an act of evil, thus it is off limits for any creature with for example exalted feats. Also, a willingly commited acts of evil will eventually change your character to evil. My point is: Spectral Savant is good as it is, the powers in CPsi are not. Banning Specrtral Savant just because there are some poor powers in CPsi is just like baning druid, because in some splatbook there's a animal, that makes one druid build broken.
Tempest Stormwind 04-21-07, 12:49 PM	Yes, I know, but manifesting powers with evil descriptor is an act of evil, thus it is off limits for any creature with for example exalted feats. Exalted characters are so Good they make your average paladin look like Ted Bundy. I'd hardly consider that a representative or even majority sample of Good psions.Also, a willingly commited acts of evil will eventually change your character to evil.Again, mechanics-wise, it will not. Find the rules for changing alignment; I'm willing to bet that outside of a few cursed items (Helm of Opposite Alignment, for instance) you will find none. Alignment is a silly and stupid part of the game that should be minimalized. Psionics is great about that since before CPsi, only three powers had anything to deal with alignment (Aura Alteration, Mind Seed, and Psionic Revivify). Post-CPsi, we see that the Good mantle is not based around doing good but rather about fighting evil, and that psions can apparently summon creatures.My point is: Spectral Savant is good as it is, the powers in CPsi are not. Banning Specrtral Savant just because there are some poor powers in CPsi is just like baning druid, because in some splatbook there's a animal, that makes one druid build broken.Well, I'd ban the druid anyway, or at least cancel wild shape. There honestly is such an animal -- at low levels, it's the fleshraker dinosaur, for instance, which has nearly as much combat prowess as a tiger but is available as a 4th level animal companion and a 5th level wild shape. Allowing that would sure make the druid seem a hell of a lot stronger than he is -- but it wouldn't change the druid's actual strength. There are other ways to gain unlimited PP, but the savant just has the easiest ones -- which runs counter to its flavor, I might add, meaning either the fluff or the crunch is poorly written. It's CPsi; I'm erring on the side of bad crunch.
Suldarr'essalar 04-21-07, 05:30 PM	mechanics-wise, it will not. Find the rules for changing alignment; I'm willing to bet that outside of a few cursed items (Helm of Opposite Alignment, for instance) you will find none.Well, first of all, you have the 0th rule (Golden rule, or how it is called) in DMG page 134. Then we also have info on casting evil spells by non evil casters on page 8 BoVD. And Tempest, I'm not going to instruct what is "the way of playing in DnD", but if your sessions are 100% RAW, then I salut you. Common sense is worth more than 100 pages of rules. Alignment is a silly and stupid part of the game that should be minimalized. Sorry for OT, but why shoul it be? Alignemnts are forces that define DnD. You may minimalize them in your games, but there's no point in doing so in a discussion. Post-CPsi, we see that the Good mantle is not based around doing good but rather about fighting evil, and that psions can apparently summon creatures.But that's the problem of poorly done powers, not a template, class or a race, that happens to benefit from them. For example: Pun-pun is not broken because it has access to Su abilities of Sarrukh. It is broken, because Sarrukh has such broken abilities. Well, I'd ban the druid anyway, or at least cancel wild shape. There honestly is such an animal Yeah, I know. You can do anything with enough splatbooks. When druid was designed, there probably were only animals from MM1, and that doesn't make him overpowered. The fact, that he can benefit from materials from splatbooks also doesn't make him overpowered. It's not a problem of the druid, it's a problem of materials from splats'. I can give you another example: is a warforged psion/metamind broken? Of course not. But if we add CPsi power temporal reiteration along with PM, it suddenly becomes so. And again, is this the problem of broken metamind, or powers? There are other ways to gain unlimited PP, but the savant just has the easiest ones -- which runs counter to its flavorI haven't noticed the flavor of a power-point beggar. On the contrary, it "has an amazing array of psionic powers and abilities at his disposal".