Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AnnShadow 09-10-07, 08:13 PM	Howdy all. For close to 15 years I have been wanting to play a Psion in one of our D$D campaigns. Finally, I got the new expanded Psion handbook, got a character made up and the DM allowed it. I was playing a wizard, but it was pretty much impossible with the cost of transcribing spells... 600gp for a second level spell ... 400gp in ink alone per spell. No real adventurer can afford to be a wizard. Unless you cheat and say spells are free. So I asked if I could convert my wizard into a Level 3 Psion. DM Said sure. Get the books. We'll give it a try. I had all the info printed up ahead of time to aid in determining power effects and such. We are in a module with lots of ships and water and we were in a pirate cove/dungeon. I say "Oh. I have this thing called a Psycrystal that can scout ahead for me." DM. "How large is this crystal." Me. "Here is a picture. fits in the palm of your hand." I show the picture from the Expanded Pson Handbook DM. "How far can it go?" Me. "Says up to 1 mile. It has telepathic link to me so can relate what it sees. And has 4 ranks in spot and search." I proceed to read the info about Psycrystal .. Intell of 7 (I was L-3 with improved Psycrystal) Sighted to 40' includes magic darkness and magic silence. size mod to hide checks. climb up walls at 20. DM. "NO WAY YOU CAN HAVE THAT." ME. "Well, a door should stop it. It cannot go through doors" DM. "This is a cove. There are no Doors." DM. "So basically. At first level you get a practically invisible scout, that can go under the cracks in doors. And looks like a rock." DM. "NO. I might as well give you the map with the treasure and bad guys printed out." ROGUE. "Well, that makes my job easy." ME. "Well, I suppose we can make it have less of a range." ROGUE. "Good. We can send it out before everyroom to tell us what is in it." ME. "Oh. And later on it will be able to fly." DM. "That is crazy." ME. "Yeah. I guess it is." I'm now rolling up a Sorcerer. Pretty hard to play a psion with out a Psycrystal. Alas
Kyuketsukiouji 09-10-07, 08:32 PM	You know, you don't -have- to have a psicrystal at all to play a psion. Mine's doing just fine with his feats spent on other stuff. Like better quality face melting.
Eldritch_Lord 09-10-07, 08:35 PM	Actually, it's not hard to play a psion without a psycrystal; undesirable, perhaps, but not too hard. It is a feat, after all, and not a class ability, as you said you had the Expanded Psionics Handbook and not the 3.0 version. I would suggest telling your DM you're willing to try again without having a psycrystal and see if he okays that. If you want some tips on building your psion, you can check out the Psion Buildguide and Compendium (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=624041), and be sure to show your DM the Myth: The XPH is Overpowered (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=331253) and the 3.5 Psionics FAQ (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=638776) threads. That should go a long way toward getting your DM to allow psionics.
sijigs 09-10-07, 08:35 PM	This is just asking for a bite. Did you tell your DM - so what? Rogues can sneak around. Clerics can heal best. Wizards can cast spells with familiars. Psions have psicrystals. Pretty hard to play a psion with out a Psycrystal. That's exactly why a psion has a psicrystal. Sorry but this sounds all silly to me. Don't knock it til you try it - til at least 10th level. LOL
Jaid 09-10-07, 08:38 PM	perhaps your DM has never heard of a familiar? you know, that *free* class ability that you used to have as a wizard? tell me, what is so horrifyingly bad about a psicrystal (which you pay a feat for) that isn't at least as bad about, say, a bat familiar? which can fly and climb at level 1, and has a ridiculous range on it's echolocation. honestly, it's not really that big of a deal. and for the record, something that looks like a gem that has spider-like legs that it walks around on doesn't sound an awful lot like a normal rock to me. perhaps your GM is under the influence of something that makes him see crazy stuff like that?
AnnShadow 09-10-07, 08:50 PM	Well, she didn't say that I could not play a Psion. Just not have a Psycrystal. I did say about a gem with legs attracting attention. But she said that its size gives it a lot of + to Hide rolls and not having to have Light to see allows it to move in darkness. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I read up on Psion for about 3 weeks between playing and all the builds I saw had Psycrystals because of the focus containing ability. I do not have The Complete Psion book, so I do not have access to most of the feats or powers of a psion. We wanted to try the psion on a basic level to see if it worked. Have to say, the Psycrystal made everyone want to nix the class. We did discuss how much more powerful it was than a familiar. Mainly the intelligence and skill points to skills. That pretty much put it over the top... especially the Intel v. familiar.
SlanderPanic 09-10-07, 08:58 PM	As has already been said, a psicrystal played intelligently isn't much more powerful than a familiar, and you have to blow a feat to get one. (You, in fact, spent two feats on it.) If the DM is outlawing psicrystals, she should outlaw familiars and animal companions, too. (And, believe me, an animal companion can rape the game far more potently than a familiar or psicrystal.)
Lokiyn 09-10-07, 09:14 PM	Dm, Meet familiar, Familiar Meet DM Couple of issues here, Wizards work just fine, you get two free spells per level, which covers nearly all the spells you actually want, although you can if you choose to pick up more it shouldn't be necessary. Secondly Psions work just fine without psicrystals, they are a useful tool, nothing more, and nothing less. Thirdly Wizards and Sorcerers already have scouts every bit as formidable, Familiars. I can tell that in your game the Dm rarely has a Minimalist player who squeezes ever ounce of functionality out of his resources lets look at what we have here, http://lokiyn.pbwiki.com/f/Familiars.jpg As you can see as scouts, the Rat and Bat stack up favorably against a psicrystal as a scout. In fact the Rats Racial bonus is immensely useful, especially as it adds to the ranks provided by the master. As for the purely flavor items, you have a polished bit of crystal with ectoplasmic legs trying very hard to look like a rock….. unless you are in a cave of crystals the crystal is going to stand out, and most likely would be pocketed for a quick copper. *edit Spent too much time making quick chart for this, others have hit the highlights.
Kyuketsukiouji 09-10-07, 09:31 PM	To be fair, though, there are many ways a psicrystal is better than a familiar. That 8 hardness, for one. And the lack of xp loss if it dies, too.
kyeudo 09-10-07, 09:31 PM	If he's worried about the scouting abilities, either compare the above examples, or look at a Raven Familiar. Ravens can talk from first level on, unlike most familiars, so you can have your Raven tell you what the area looks like, with no errors.
PhaedrusXY 09-10-07, 09:44 PM	If he's worried about the scouting abilities, either compare the above examples, or look at a Raven Familiar. Ravens can talk from first level on, unlike most familiars, so you can have your Raven tell you what the area looks like, with no errors.Umm... yeah. The raven also has a +8 size bonus to hide checks. The main drawback to using a familiar like this is that it hurts alot if they die. Of course, there are no rules on how you get a psicrystal back after it gets destroyed. So the DM would be perfectly within his rights to say it is just as painful a process. At 5th level or higher, all familiars can talk with their masters anyway. So you don't actually have to use a Raven. The lowly toad has a +21 Hide check. Put an Expeditions Retreat on it, and wait for a bit, and it could make an even better scout than the Psicrystal. It is a HELL of alot less conspicuous, also. The psicrystal is a bit better than a familiar in some ways, but it also costs a feat. People rarely use their familiars, in my experience, due to their fear of losing them to malicious/metagaming DMs who think every monster in the game should smash all creatures on sight. Those monsters would be alot more justified in smashing a crawling crystal with legs, though, IMO. :D
Tsuul 09-11-07, 01:18 AM	We did discuss how much more powerful it was than a familiar. Mainly the intelligence and skill points to skills. That pretty much put it over the top... especially the Intel v. familiar.It's a weak version of leadership. Compare the two.
InkBlot 09-11-07, 01:33 AM	I do not have The Complete Psion book, so I do not have access to most of the feats or powers of a psion. Complete Psionic does not have many feats or powers for the psion. I honestly can't recommend buying it. Most of the feats and powers for the psion are in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. We did discuss how much more powerful it was than a familiar. Mainly the intelligence and skill points to skills. That pretty much put it over the top... especially the Intel v. familiar. You should reread the section on the skills of familiars and psicrystals. Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master’s skill ranks, whichever are better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar’s total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar’s ability to use. Skills: A psicrystal has the same skill ranks as its owner, except that it has a minimum of 4 ranks each in Spot, Listen, Move Silently, and Search. (Even if its owner has no ranks in these skills, a psicrystal has 4 ranks in each.) A psicrystal uses its own ability modifiers on skill checks. As you can see, familiars have better skills than psicrystals. A psicrystal will always have the same skills ranks as it's master, but a familiar can have more than it's master does.
Ryuu_Tenshi 09-11-07, 01:40 AM	Furthermore, you do not need a psicrystal to play an effective, heck, even an excellent psion. My favourite character ever was a psion shaper who didn't use psycrystals. He worked just fine - not as powerful the party cleric or most wizards, but what CAN measure up to a cleric anyway? And he was a hell of a lot more fun to play. I was really amazing at battlefield control, summoning, and general utility. Given that I was also playing an Elan with Improved Resilience, I was also pretty durable as a spellcaster. No, I couldn't scout ahead very well, but that was OK, we had a rouge who did that. And if I'd really wanted to I'm sure I could have taken a few claritescence powers.
Feeb 09-11-07, 01:49 AM	I hate to just write another player's problems off, but I don't think anything suggested on this board will help the Original Poster. I base this on the following: I was playing a wizard, but it was pretty much impossible with the cost of transcribing spells... 600gp for a second level spell ... 400gp in ink alone per spell. No real adventurer can afford to be a wizard. Unless you cheat and say spells are free. Your DM is ripping you off. A transcribing a second level spell should cost no more than 300g. Go review the rule for transcribing /writing spells into a spell book in the PHB (or check them out in the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#writingaNewSpellintoaSp ellbook).) A wizard gets two spells per level that can be added to their spell book absolutely free of charge. Additional spells can be added to a spell book at a flat cost of 100g/page. A spell takes up a number of pages in a spellbook equal to the level of the spell. This 100g/page charge includes material costs (ink, etc.) There may also be an additional fee if you copy the spell from a library, wizard/magic guild/school/college or from an individual wizard's spell book. These fees are arbitrary, but the PHB recommends 50g/Spell Level. You DM has clearly broken / ignored the rules as written. In this instance, RAW is pretty transparent. If your DM feels the need to implement such restrictive and putative house rules, do not expect them to allow *anything*, much less a psion.
AntiDjinn 09-11-07, 02:08 AM	You probably need a smarter DM or at least one with better reading comprehension skills, but there is really nothing we can do about that. If she can't see that at the cost of a feat it should be a little better than something that mages get as a free class feature, then having one in her game is probably more of a challenge than she is ready for (the CR of the crystal beats her DM level). If she doesn't have a handle on the mechanics by which wizards acquire new spells, then she is probably not ready to move beyond the PHB anyway. You certainly can play a psion without the pet rock. It costs you a feat and you can probably come up with any number of builds that can put a feat to good use. Some psions wait to take the feat until the crystal can start off with a good suite of abilities. Some never take it and those characters survive just fine. Most, do start off with it though. If you decide not to play a psion because you really wanted the pet rock then it is understandable. My standard advice to anyone whose DM won't let them play a psion is to play a druid. You will have better hit points and a better BAB, and will have an animal companion (free class feature) who is fully the equal or superior of your character in combat. Whenever your companion takes down an opponent by itself say: "Wow! At least it wasn't the pet rock. Think how much worse that would have been." Then spam summon a whole bunch of templated animals and spend game time managing movement and attacks for each of them.
Nirid 09-11-07, 02:19 AM	Overall I think psicrystals are balanced and handled well when compared to familiars. There are only 3 things that make me look at psicrystals funny. 1. Telepathic Link to 1 mile. Far better then Empathic Link, works from the start (vs lvl 5), and the creature doesn't have to come back and then explain what it saw. Not really all that bad since it is their main special thing. 2. Telepathic speech at level 5. No your psicrystal is NOT a free short range Mind Link with Tounges which you can use to plan to kill the King with impunity while standing right in front of him. Everyone within 30ft hears it when it talks. Unless it is talking to you via your Telepathic Link. I'd let them keep the Tounges effect. 3. Giving psicrystals HD, skills, feats, etc because the way the entry is worded for them in the XPH. Like many things about psicrystals this was just done in a vague manner. If you say that you psicrystal gets these things because the way the monster entry reads be aware that if your psicrystal dies you can't replace it since the book does not list a way to recover or replace one without taking the feat again.
Slagger the Chuul 09-11-07, 08:34 AM	We did discuss how much more powerful it was than a familiar. Mainly the intelligence and skill points to skills. That pretty much put it over the top... especially the Intel v. familiar. How is the Intelligence of a psicrystal different to that of a familiar?
Kamin_Majere 09-11-07, 09:27 AM	From a DM's prespective that doesnt like Psionics: The things I most hate about Psi-Crystals are. First, that you suffer nothing for its death, unlike a wizard/sorceror. At higher levels the familiar can cost you a level if it does get killed. I would gladly pay a feat to get a familiar if I didnt suffer anything for it, if it actually does get killed (besides obvious RP suffering) Second, is the fact that it can get feats, I mean WTF. Again I would gladly pay a feat for a familiar if it was able to get feats. That would make them ALOT more useful. Over the course of an adventureing career thats alot of added flexability that you only spend a single feat for. Also not a major point, but the ability to see in almost any condition and relay it back to you gives a Psion basically blindsight with a range of up to a mile. Now saying that, I dont ban psionics. I personally dont like the flavor of them, but if a player wants to use psionics then I have no problem allowing it at all. So i would say talk to your DM and tell them that its a pretty balanced system and there isnt a reason that it should be banned like that.
Tempest Stormwind 09-11-07, 10:15 AM	First, that you suffer nothing for its death, unlike a wizard/sorceror. At higher levels the familiar can cost you a level if it does get killed. I would gladly pay a feat to get a familiar if I didnt suffer anything for it, if it actually does get killed (besides obvious RP suffering) On the flipside, there's currently no way to get it back. Psionics gets such horrible support that the XPH's been out for three years and "what happens when my psicrystal dies?" is still being asked. The wizard can just summon another one (after the relic-of-older-editions-wanting-to-sound-mystic 'year and a day') while the psion apparently has to spend another feat to get it again (or perhaps use Psychic Reformation, which costs 50xp per level he wants to reach back as well as a power known). Second, is the fact that it can get feats, I mean WTF. Again I would gladly pay a feat for a familiar if it was able to get feats. That would make them ALOT more useful. Over the course of an adventureing career thats alot of added flexability that you only spend a single feat for. As a major advocate for the psicrystals-get-feats part of this argument, I'd like to bring up two critical points that you're missing. 1) The psicrystal itself must qualify for these feats. This is huge: there are very few feats that are worth it that it qualifies for without extreme focus and specialization. The best you can get out of it would be things that boost skills, really, unless you buy the 'psicrystal hat' argument. 2) I've passed on the question directly to R&D. They were 'adamant' that psicrystals SHOULDN'T get feats, but were unable to find any reason why this was the case in the rules. (The reason psicrystals get feats follows from game design principles; the lack of any published NPC's psicrystal stats keeps it from being confirmed or denied, sort of like why the 3.0 iconics never got stats due to Resculpt Mind and Mind Blind.) Also not a major point, but the ability to see in almost any condition and relay it back to you gives a Psion basically blindsight with a range of up to a mile. More like a mobile camera with Sighted up to 40' that can be up to a mile away, provided it's not too dangerous (since he can't replace the psicrystal; I should also note that without Psionic Repair Damage the psicrystal doesn't even heal on its own, so it desperately needs that 8 hardness if you intend to send it out into unknown danger zones). Recall that Sighted is NOT blindsight at all. Sighted is merely normal vision and hearing that isn't hindered by darkness, but also cannot extend beyond 40' (beyond that the psicrystal is utterly blind). Compare with the owl familiar (+14 Listen, +14 Spot in dim light like underground, *from level 1*) or the bat familiar (with true blindsense that can detect invisible creatures, along with +8 Listen/Spot at level 1), and you'll see which has the advantage. Furthermore, all of these animals move faster than the psicrystal does, especially if the psicrystal is scurrying along walls and ceilings. Which it should be, since a magic walking rock tends to set off your opponent's danger senses in ways that mundane animals tend not to ("Goffmog, it's another bat!" "You woke me to inform me about a *bat*? Imbecile! We're in a CAVE!" as opposed to "Goffmog, we've spotted a walking fist-sized gem with spider-like legs!" "What? Shoot it down!"). Now saying that, I dont ban psionics. I personally dont like the flavor of them, but if a player wants to use psionics then I have no problem allowing it at all. Of course, flavor is completely mutable. See the Truenaming Psionics link in my sig.
SlanderPanic 09-11-07, 12:12 PM	I'd say that a psicrystal is a hybrid of an animal companion and a familiar. It's small, mostly-harmless, and supernaturally-synced, like a familiar. It gains hit dice and feats like an animal companion. Got any druids or rangers in your party, AnnShadow? In fact, instead of playing a sorcerer, why not give druid a spin for a while? Or you can play a psicrystalless psion. It's a perfectly-good class, even without a pet rock. Heck, tell us more about your psion and maybe we can suggest some good uses for the two feat slots you'd be freeing up.
Kamin_Majere 09-11-07, 01:18 PM	Of course, flavor is completely mutable. See the Truenaming Psionics link in my sig. @your responce to me. I agree with you 100%. As I said i dont find anything wrong with the mechanics (i find them quite balanced) its mostly a flavor issue with me, and i was just saying what bothers me about the psy-crystal (yet i do not think its unbalanced) as to Flavor. Your thread was really good and i liked it, but thats not the flavor i disagree with. I use Psionics as a more of a racial thing. I would not have Mind flayers or Giths that weren't psionic creatures... i would feel dirty. I just dislike every dwarf, human, and gnome being able to get them. Call me weird but thats just how I like it. I dont know what to say on the matter anymore than that. I view psionics as more of a racial talent than a class you can take. But as long as my players are willing to take a psy-race then i dont mind them at all
Scion of Coldshard 09-11-07, 01:41 PM	I dont think that the limited range of the psicrystals sight can be overstated. It gets along in some tough situations where sight is limited but it simply cannot see far enough to make it nearly as effective of a scout as it is being made out to be. Just think about how a normal scouting guy would collect information. Hiding in shadows, moving silently, manipulating things like doors carefully, and looking around. Now, the psicrystal tries to do this job. Sure, it is small, but how many doors, when closed, could the psicrystal really get past? I would say that a majority would stop the crystal, with a few noteable exceptions. The psicrystals size category is diminutive but its picture looks smaller, I believe this is the case because while the body itself is small its leg activation makes it effectively much larger, just like a spider. Next up in the problem area, looking around. The farther away you can see the more you can either plan your approach or simply gather information from a distance that penalizes spot checks into impossibility. The psicrystal does not have either of these options. In fact, if it has obviously been spotted but that person is more than 40' away the psicrystal might just have no ability to even know that it has been spotted! A listen check is all well and good, but the psicrystals listen check is unlikely to be incredibly stellar, and dont forget the distance penalty or a penalty for anything else that might be going on making noise in a normal fashion. While in plain sight you cannot hide either. A psicrystal moving across a corridor that is fully lit will be spotted by anything that happens to be looking, no matter how high the psicrystals hide check is. This means that certian places are still impossible for the psicrystal to get to. It is a really impressive scout in certain circumstances, and a very poor one in others. Personally, I like to send my psicrystal 'with' the real scout. That way more people get to do things during the scouting missions and so people arent sitting around bored. Psion sends his psicrystal, wizard sends his familiar, the scout sends himself, and maybe the other guy in the party could send an animal companion. Suddenly everyone gets to participate somewhat in the scouting mission.. that sounds like a win/win situation to me!
PhaedrusXY 09-11-07, 01:55 PM	Yeah, that's exactly the problem I've ran into, Scion. Along with sending the psicrystal with the party Scout, it is fun to also send it with a druid or ranger's animal companion. The two together can make a pretty good scouting team, with the companion's scent ability, further range of vision, and likely higher land speed, and the psicrystal's instant communication system. If the animal companion had a language, it would be much better. If the Psion has ranks in Handle Animal or Ride, and the Psicrystal takes the Mounted Combat feat, this could work even better. :D It could also work well in combination with a flying familiar large enough to carry it. Hmm... you know, this would be another advantage of playing a Cerebremancer that I hadn't thought of. A raven familiar can speak, so the Psicrystal could communicate with it, and relay messages back to their master. You'd probably have to take Improved Psicrystal to pull this off, though.
AntiDjinn 09-11-07, 02:40 PM	1) The psicrystal itself must qualify for these feats. This is huge: there are very few feats that are worth it that it qualifies for without extreme focus and specialization. The best you can get out of it would be things that boost skills, really, unless you buy the 'psicrystal hat' argument. The list of applicable feats is pretty small given the relatively small number of game mechanical options the crystal has available to be modified; it isn't swinging spiked chains or threatening areas. The psicrystal's personality type should play a large role in determining appropriate feats. In an Eberron game it looks like the winner for first feat to take is Heroic Spirit (no prereqs) because it is the only way for NPCs to get a pool of action points which can greatly increase the crystal's chance of survival. DM's who get upset about the pet rock having feats need to remember that this does not convey the feat to the character. If you have an Artiste crystal it grants you +3 on craft checks. If your crystal has Skill Focus (Craft X) it gets +3 on its own craft skill (for stuff it makes) but still grants you the same +3 bonus. The psicrystal personalities table and the psicrystal special abilities table are very specific about what a crystal grants to its owner, and "any feat the rock has" is not on the list. 2) I've passed on the question directly to R&D. They were 'adamant' that psicrystals SHOULDN'T get feats, but were unable to find any reason why this was the case in the rules. (The reason psicrystals get feats follows from game design principles; the lack of any published NPC's psicrystal stats keeps it from being confirmed or denied, sort of like why the 3.0 iconics never got stats due to Resculpt Mind and Mind Blind.) I believe it was never the author's intent that psicrystals should gain feats, but as the rules were written, they do. If WotC wants to bring the pet rock as published more in line with the author's (or the company's) intent then they need to issue official errata. Of course, they don't want to do this because then they would probably have to reveal what happens when a psicrystal dies and that seems to be a hermetic secret of the inner cabal of the organization. None of the psionic NPCs in Comp. Psi even took the feat so we don't have published examples of pet rocks.
PhaedrusXY 09-11-07, 02:54 PM	Of course, they don't want to do this because then they would probably have to reveal what happens when a psicrystal dies and that seems to be a hermetic secret of the inner cabal of the organization. None of the psionic NPCs in Comp. Psi even took the feat so we don't have published examples of pet rocks.Yeah, it almost seems like they deliberately go out of their way to avoid even giving clues to the answers to some of these basic questions. It must be some kind of insider joke. I wonder if they have a running tab on the number of times people ask "What happens if my Psicrystal dies?" questions on their dry erase board, that they laugh at from time to time at company meetings.
The_Shaman 09-11-07, 05:54 PM	Hmm, I think that a lot of NPCs will look a lot more askance at a moving crystal with many tiny legs than at an apparently completely normal raven. It might be marginally more useful than a familiar all in all - but the familiar isn't the greatest sorc/wiz feature anyway. Seriously, how often have wizards even bothered to use their familiars properly.
Lycanthromancer 09-11-07, 06:45 PM	I'd never get a familiar as a wizard or sorcerer. They're too fragile, and the penalty for losing one is way too high. A psicrystal, however, I like very much. It does cost a feat (which is a big opportunity cost), but losing it isn't nearly as potentially painful. They're fun to have, and are versatile enough to be really fun. See, I'm the kind of player that would rather have a weak but versatile and extremely useful power that I could get a lot out of with creative thinking rather than an uber-damaging power that is broken-powerful but has very little utility. This carries over into my other class features, too.
sijigs 09-11-07, 06:50 PM	Yeah, it almost seems like they deliberately go out of their way to avoid even giving clues to the answers to some of these basic questions. It must be some kind of insider joke. I wonder if they have a running tab on the number of times people ask "What happens if my Psicrystal dies?" questions on their dry erase board, that they laugh at from time to time at company meetings. :waits: You're probably not far from the truth..
Salla 09-11-07, 06:54 PM	I'd never get a familiar as a wizard or sorcerer. They're too fragile, and the penalty for losing one is way too high. Hear hear.
PhaedrusXY 09-11-07, 11:18 PM	A psicrystal, however, I like very much. It does cost a feat (which is a big opportunity cost), but losing it isn't nearly as potentially painful.That depends entirely on the DM, seeing how there are no rules covering it...
AnnShadow 09-12-07, 06:33 PM	A lot of interesting comments. Even though the Familiar has similar intel, it is far inferior to the crystal in that it does not allow for error free reports as does Telepathy. We are playing a Sea Adventure and I took the following Powers Conceal thoughts (we do a LOT of interacting with NPC and the +10 to Bluff (or the oppose check [pretty much same thing]) is Fantastic Crystal Shard Entangling Ectoplasm Force Screen Vigor Energy Missile Body Equilibrium: Sea Adventure - lots of drowning Feats were PsyCrystal Affinity Bluff Improved Psycrystal Diplomacy Up the Walls Improved INitiative I based the build on the adventure being on the water. As far as the Wizard and the cost to write a spell. The price is right from the SRD. his is a copy and paste from the SRD I have. Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook Once a wizard understands a new spell, the wizard can record it into his or her spellbook. Time: The process requires 1 day plus 1 additional day per spell level. Zero-level spells require 1 day. Space in the Spellbook: A spell takes up 2 pages of the spellbook per spell level. A 0-level spell takes a single page. A spellbook has 100 pages. Materials and Costs: Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells gained for free at each new level. The wizard adds these to the wizard’s spellbook as part of the wizard’s ongoing research. Replacing and Copying Spellbooks A wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a lost spellbook. If the character already has a particular spell prepared, the character can write it directly into a new book at a cost of 100 gp per page (as noted in Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process wipes the prepared spell from the character’s mind, just as casting it would. If the character does not have the spell prepared, the character can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book. Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, except that the time requirement and cost per page are halved. I hate to just write another player's problems off, but I don't think anything suggested on this board will help the Original Poster. I base this on the following: Your DM is ripping you off. A transcribing a second level spell should cost no more than 300g. Go review the rule for transcribing /writing spells into a spell book in the PHB (or check them out in the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#writingaNewSpellintoaSp ellbook).) A wizard gets two spells per level that can be added to their spell book absolutely free of charge. Additional spells can be added to a spell book at a flat cost of 100g/page. A spell takes up a number of pages in a spellbook equal to the level of the spell. This 100g/page charge includes material costs (ink, etc.) There may also be an additional fee if you copy the spell from a library, wizard/magic guild/school/college or from an individual wizard's spell book. These fees are arbitrary, but the PHB recommends 50g/Spell Level. You DM has clearly broken / ignored the rules as written. In this instance, RAW is pretty transparent. If your DM feels the need to implement such restrictive and putative house rules, do not expect them to allow *anything*, much less a psion. As far as what happens when your PsyCrystal dies, you simply manifest a new one per the Feat Psycrystal Affinity and page 21. It simply is willed into being. I would be really interested in any advice on playing a Psion without a PsyCrystal. I struggled over the decision to have Psion or a Sorcerer and all the builds on the boards had Psycrystals because of the Focus storage ability and I figured it was a necessary part of the class.
PhaedrusXY 09-12-07, 06:41 PM	As far as what happens when your PsyCrystal dies, you simply manifest a new one per the Feat Psycrystal Affinity and page 21. It simply is willed into being.The feat does not indicate this in any way directly. It is a reasonable guess, at best. This has been a mystery to all the psionics fans of this board for years. Do you honestly think they've all just been overlooking something written in the book from the beginning, and that you just happened to notice it? Even though the Familiar has similar intel, it is far inferior to the crystal in that it does not allow for error free reports as does Telepathy.Familiars can all talk to their master after 5th level, and Ravens can talk to anyone at 1st. So while they don't offer instantaneous updates on scouting, they can offer equally accurate information, and as was pointed out they are alot less conspicuous than a rock with legs. I would be really interested in any advice on playing a Psion without a PsyCrystal. I struggled over the decision to have Psion or a Sorcerer and all the builds on the boards had Psycrystals because of the Focus storage ability and I figured it was a necessary part of the class.Playing a psion without a psicrystal shouldn't be all that different from playing a wizard without a familiar, and plenty of people do that. You still have one focus, and you can regain it with a move action once you get Psionic Meditation. You can certainly get by with that. I think the main loss is in damage taking capacity, due to the loss of using Share Pain and shared Vigor on the Psicrystal, but you can compensate for that by just being extra careful to avoid getting beaten up.
dragoonmac 09-12-07, 06:46 PM	The feat does not indicate this in any way directly. It is a reasonable guess, at best. This has been a mystery to all the psionics fans of this board for years. Do you honestly think they've all just been overlooking something written in the book from the beginning, and that you just happened to notice it? Familiars can all talk to their master after 5th level, and Ravens can talk to anyone at 1st. So while they don't offer instantaneous updates on scouting, they can offer equally accurate information, and as was pointed out they are alot less conspicuous than a rock with legs. And if you have a sadistic DM, a Psicrystal can be an unreliable witness. A Psion in a party I was part of once had his psicrystal (with the Liar personality) completely falsify scouting reports.
PhaedrusXY 09-12-07, 06:50 PM	And if you have a sadistic DM, a Psicrystal can be an unreliable witness. A Psion in a party I was part of once had his psicrystal (with the Liar personality) completely falsify scouting reports.:rofl: I love your DM.
AnnShadow 09-12-07, 06:57 PM	Yep. You're right about the ability of a Familiar to speak with its master. I did not know/remember that they did that. And a small critter would certainly draw less suspicion than a rock with legs. I am all for reasonable arguments for having a PsyCrystal. Perhaps it was the perfect storm of being in a dungeon with absolutely no doors, frenzied/insane/possessed mobs, [therefore not noticing much] and darkness that did the PsyCrystal in. It would have pretty much ruined several sessions of playing AND it was the FIRST instance that I mentioned that I had one. We were all sitting there going " Well, what can it do?" and everyone said OMG. Oh Edit... Yeah about shared pain and touch spells... that was a big part of my thinking on the Psion. I guess that is why I'm confused. You get a mental picture of what you want to do and then it all gets messed up. I'm just at a loss now and cannot see how it will work right. I did argue that there would be doors later on, and all that jazz. As far as the getting a new PsyCrystal and the RAW. I'll leave the impossibilities of it to the Rules Lawyers. We don't allow them in our game. It would be just as I said. It dies. I will a new one into existance. And before everyone jumps in and says "Oh... Yeah ... well .... what's to stop you from having a millizigabiziollion of them ... " Again, we don't play silly with the rules. Oh and about the shared pain and touch spells ... that was my original intent. And you get a mental picture/plan and then something like this happens and it messes you all up. I just don't know how it could work. And our DM said we will probably only get to L 12 and go to the version 4 rules.
dragoonmac 09-12-07, 07:22 PM	:rofl: I love your DM. It gets better: When he acquired a new one (DM ruled all he had to do was acquire a semiprecious crystal) it had the sensitive sympathetic personality. Because my character was temporarily in a dead state, I was assigned to RP his Psicrystal. "Yeah there's three monsters down there, they're just doing their thing though, I really wouldn't want to cause them trouble"
AnnShadow 09-12-07, 08:00 PM	I hate to just write another player's problems off, but I don't think anything suggested on this board will help the Original Poster. I base this on the following: Your DM is ripping you off. A transcribing a second level spell should cost no more than 300g. Go review the rule for transcribing /writing spells into a spell book in the PHB (or check them out in the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#writingaNewSpellintoaSp ellbook).) A wizard gets two spells per level that can be added to their spell book absolutely free of charge. Additional spells can be added to a spell book at a flat cost of 100g/page. A spell takes up a number of pages in a spellbook equal to the level of the spell. This 100g/page charge includes material costs (ink, etc.) There may also be an additional fee if you copy the spell from a library, wizard/magic guild/school/college or from an individual wizard's spell book. These fees are arbitrary, but the PHB recommends 50g/Spell Level. You DM has clearly broken / ignored the rules as written. In this instance, RAW is pretty transparent. If your DM feels the need to implement such restrictive and putative house rules, do not expect them to allow *anything*, much less a psion. Seems you are correct!! After finding the SRD you discribed and the SRD that I had and noticing that they conflicted, I got out my handy player's handbook and on page 178 it agrees with you. It is still expensive, but not nearly so. :P
InkBlot 09-12-07, 08:04 PM	DM. "NO WAY YOU CAN HAVE THAT." ME. "Well, a door should stop it. It cannot go through doors" DM. "This is a cove. There are no Doors." DM. "So basically. At first level you get a practically invisible scout, that can go under the cracks in doors. And looks like a rock." DM. "NO. I might as well give you the map with the treasure and bad guys printed out." ROGUE. "Well, that makes my job easy." ME. "Well, I suppose we can make it have less of a range." ROGUE. "Good. We can send it out before everyroom to tell us what is in it." ME. "Oh. And later on it will be able to fly." DM. "That is crazy." ME. "Yeah. I guess it is." I'm playing a 6th level binder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060303a&page=2) currently Eberron game. We were cutting through a jungle to recover a lost artifact from a hidden temple occupied by a savage tribe. The temple, by the way, didn't have any doors either. My character made a pact with Malphaas, who grants (among other things) the ability to summon a raven whose eyes and ears you can see through, and who you can telepathically control over any distance. If the raven dies, you can summon another one as a standard action. It did not ruin anything. We found out the layout of the temple, where the treasure was, and where the guards were. We still had to fight our way through the temple. We still had to find a hiding place when one of the party members almost died. We were still suprised by what our enemies could do. We still into some traps my bird didn't spot, and we still had to deal with disarming/bypassing all the traps whether we knew they were there or not. It was still a fantastically fun adventure with plenty of suprises.
CrimsonDeath 09-12-07, 08:51 PM	And if you have a sadistic DM, a Psicrystal can be an unreliable witness. A Psion in a party I was part of once had his psicrystal (with the Liar personality) completely falsify scouting reports. Did the DM happen to read the part of the Liar psicrystal personality that states that the psicrystal's master always knows when it's lying?
AnnShadow 09-12-07, 08:58 PM	I'm playing a 6th level binder (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060303a&page=2) currently Eberron game. We were cutting through a jungle to recover a lost artifact from a hidden temple occupied by a savage tribe. The temple, by the way, didn't have any doors either. My character made a pact with Malphaas, who grants (among other things) the ability to summon a raven whose eyes and ears you can see through, and who you can telepathically control over any distance. If the raven dies, you can summon another one as a standard action. It did not ruin anything. We found out the layout of the temple, where the treasure was, and where the guards were. We still had to fight our way through the temple. We still had to find a hiding place when one of the party members almost died. We were still suprised by what our enemies could do. We still into some traps my bird didn't spot, and we still had to deal with disarming/bypassing all the traps whether we knew they were there or not. It was still a fantastically fun adventure with plenty of suprises. Our DM has a habit of killing us if that is the way the encounter comes out. I am sure that having that much information would allow us to prepare too much. Be great for avoiding those occasional player wipes, though.
kyeudo 09-12-07, 09:37 PM	Your DM sounds like a complete jerk from what you discribe. I'm suprised you haven't said he banned the soulknife because it was broken.
MnemonicSV 09-13-07, 02:57 AM	[Devil'sAdvocate] This just sounds to me like an unprepared DM, and little more than that. I mean, lets face it, your DM obviously has no experience with psionics, and certainly not any experience handling psicrystals. Can you really be all that surprised that it resulted in a knee-jerk "ban psions/psicrystals" response? I'm not saying that was the best response, far from it... I'm just saying that maybe she just wasn't prepared for your character's new capabilities. It was shock, pure and simple. The impression I get is that your DM probably created a scenario that more or less counted on the fact that the party did not have an effective scout other than the rogue. Perhaps she expected that your earlier wizard character would never have sent your familiar ahead (for fear of it dying). That's assuming your wizard even had a familiar, or at least a familiar suitable for scouting. And now, even though your new character is mechanically on par with the old, some of the abilities/weaknesses she counted on when designing the adventure have changed. Can she be blamed for the fact that now the challenging adventure she painstakingly planned has been shot down? Not entirely. [/Devil'sAdvocate] Not that your DM is without blame: She never should have allowed your new character to sub for the old one without first doing her homework, or reviewing your character, or making you wait until after that session/adventure was over before switching. She could perhaps had improvised something to account for your new, long-distance scout, but some DMs don't work that way. Some DM's style is as simple as setting out a plan, and sticking to it (which isn't wrong, its just one of many ways to handle it). An analogy: Would it be good form for a DM to allow a character to sub an old wizard build for a new wizard build mid-stream without reviewing the changes? Hell no! Especially if all-of-a-sudden this new wizard has spells which are more ideal to the current scenario. I know that shooting down your DM's expectations wasn't your plan at all... but hey, let's be a little sympathetic here. She just overreacted. Perhaps the best way to resolve the situation is to discuss things a little more, review her expectations of your character, and give her more advance warning when your abilities have changed. As the "Myth" thread puts it best, psionics aren't overpowered: Maybe after a little pros/cons discussion she will allow your psion back in play, even with the psicrystal. Just my :twocents:.
Elsydeon 09-15-07, 12:16 PM	Just agree not to use it as a scout? IMO the feat is worth the extra focus and concentration shifting. Plus share pain/vigor. Wear the thing around your neck and don't use it as anything but a "I'm stronger" necklace. *shrugs* My DM isn't used to dealing with spellcasters (They've always played melee types and rogues) and I brought in a Psion. Telepathic conversations were going to ruin his game on the third or fourth session, so he put the kabash on it that game and took it into account when planning the next adventure. Nothing wrong with not using a power until later when the DM just discovered it.
Secrets Untold 09-15-07, 06:59 PM	As for the handful of people talking about about the lack of ways to heal a psycrystal in their comparisons, I'd like to point something out. At level 7, most psions, especially egoists will take Metamorphosis. In itself, this power can heal, because you gain HP "as a full night's rest." This is NOT what I'm talking about, I know that constructs don't heal overnight. However... If your psicrystal has taken damage, next time you manifest metamorphosis, share it, and have the psicrystal turn into a hydra or something with Fast Healing as an (Ex) quality. There you go, healing of a psycrystal. And...while it's in hydra form, that's a lot of attacks you can use.
Ra-Tiel 09-16-07, 04:05 PM	[...] If your psicrystal has taken damage, next time you manifest metamorphosis, share it, and have the psicrystal turn into a hydra or something with Fast Healing as an (Ex) quality. There you go, healing of a psycrystal. Won't work. [...] You also gain all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such as constrict, improved grab, and poison) but do not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form (such as blindsense, fast healing, regeneration, and scent) or any supernatural, psionic, or spell-like abilities. [...] Even with Metamorphic Transfer it wouldn't work, as the feat specifies supernatural abilities, not qualities. And afaik there is no creature with (su) fast healing (although I'm a bit out of sync with the latest monster books... :shifty: ). Repairing your psicrystal? That's what psionic repair damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRepairDamage.htm) is for. ;) And...while it's in hydra form, that's a lot of attacks you can use. But only for as long as you stay within 5ft of your psicrystal. And you really wouldn't want to place yourself (remember, d4 as HD? ;) ) in the melee reach of something you need the form of a hydra to compete against. :gah:
InkBlot 09-16-07, 04:35 PM	Ra-Tiel, that isn't what Secrets Untold was talking about. Look a little higher up on that paragraph you quoted from metamorphosis. Upon changing, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal you further). If you are slain while under the effect of this power, you revert to your original form, though you remain dead. You gain the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retain your own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also gain all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such as constrict, improved grab, and poison) but do not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form (such as blindsense, fast healing, regeneration, and scent) or any supernatural, psionic, or spell-like abilities. It still wouldn't work, since psicrystals regain no lost hit points if they rest for a night.
Ra-Tiel 09-16-07, 05:07 PM	Ra-Tiel, that isn't what Secrets Untold was talking about. Look a little higher up on that paragraph you quoted from metamorphosis. It still wouldn't work, since psicrystals regain no lost hit points if they rest for a night. [...] At level 7, most psions, especially egoists will take Metamorphosis. In itself, this power can heal, because you gain HP "as a full night's rest." This is NOT what I'm talking about, I know that constructs don't heal overnight. However... [...] :thinks: :confused:
Scion of Coldshard 09-16-07, 05:10 PM	It still wouldn't work, since psicrystals regain no lost hit points if they rest for a night. Not being able to heal damage over time naturally is from the construct traits. If, upon changing, it is no longer a construct though...
AnnShadow 09-16-07, 05:18 PM	Thank you all for chiming in. I figure that I am going to continue on with the psion and just not have the psycrystal. That means completely changing the role-playing aspect of the character. (I am probably the only one of our group [besides the DM] that role-plays) I am the "5th" character so I have a lot of leeway in what I can do since the bases are all covered (Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Caster). Infact, I was thinking of taking a level of Dragon Shaman for the level 1 aura of vigor or shield. 2 points of acid damage on each melee hit is pretty neet. and the vigor aura heals 1/r once the party members get to half HPs. Combine that with the healing ability of shared pain and it could really be interesting as a second healer/blaster. I was going to be a blaster/diplomat/bluff type but ....
Scion of Coldshard 09-16-07, 07:23 PM	Infact, I was thinking of taking a level of Dragon Shaman for the level 1 aura of vigor or shield. 2 points of acid damage on each melee hit is pretty neet. and the vigor aura heals 1/r once the party members get to half HPs. I like spending a feat instead of class levels for the auras myself. Dragon Magic has the feats, and if the dm feels bad about disallowing the psicrystal maybe he will modify the draconic heritage feats to work for manifesters and the various gem dragons.
Ravion 09-17-07, 09:45 PM	I am one of those DMs that hates Animal Companions, familiers and the like, not because of how useful they are but only because my players want me to NPC them. But when I do get a chance to play I always play a Psion. In my opinion the psicrystal is not any more powerful than a familier or an animal companion. they just have diffrent abilities and if a GM will not allow psicrystals then they should snot allow any class to have their companion. there is nothing wrong with psicrystals at all its how you as the player uses it. I think you should get with your GM and talk with them about what they will allow and disallow. Remember that the Psicrystal is no more powerful than a Mages familier or a Rangers Animal Companion.
Lycanthromancer 09-18-07, 01:37 PM	Don't forget that there are feats out there that allow you to get most of a psicrystal's abilities without actually HAVING a psicrystal. It's more of a schism-like effect than a companion.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 09-21-07, 03:23 PM	Your DM sounds like a complete jerk from what you discribe. I'm suprised you haven't said he banned the soulknife because it was broken. The soulknife is broken. Just in the complete opposite direction than most other broken classes.