psion races? [Archive] - Wizards Community

psion races? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NHBDY
05-12-07, 08:01 AM I was starting a game and wanted to play a psion, which race would give me the best build at a max LA of +1? I only have access to the PHB, DMG, MM, Complete arcane, Dragon magic, Expanded Pionics handbook, Eberron campain setting.
Venenum
05-12-07, 09:22 AM As a straight psion, the elan is good through epic lvls, if you have/ get complete psionic you can reduce damge by 4 for a single powerpoint. however you will need a killer int.

Otherwise if the setting allows for it be a blue. small and bonus powerpoints, great combo.
Jaid
05-12-07, 09:36 AM probably the best (or one of the best) overall would be a human.
Suldarr'essalar
05-12-07, 10:50 AM As a straight psion, the elan is good through epic lvls, if you have/ get complete psionic you can reduce damge by 4 for a single powerpoint. however you will need a killer int.

Otherwise if the setting allows for it be a blue. small and bonus powerpoints, great combo.
Asw for the elan with greater resilience, vigor gives 5 temporary hit points which is in general a lot better deal than loosing a feat and shine at only 1 rare situation.

As for Blue, You suck 1 level, that's 32 power points and 2 power known for +1 to DC and +10 power points. Generally it's better to go with human.
Thomar_of_Uointer
05-12-07, 11:33 AM probably the best (or one of the best) overall would be a human.

Seconded.

If you're really looking for something with level adjustment, elans are very good at staying alive despite d4 Hit Dice, though you'll burn power points like a candle.

Also check out Kalashtar from the Eberron Campaign Setting, very fun to play fluff-wise and the bonus power points are the best of any LA +0 race.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
05-12-07, 11:36 AM Kalashtar are also quite great. Most psionic races get a static number of bonus power points. Kalashtar get 1/level, effectively one extra fully augmented power a day. Comparable to a caster get one bonus spell of highest level he/she can cast. Except it could also be broken up to slightly boost up to 20 powers a day. Sure, kalashtar are technically an Eberron race, but they transfer pretty well. In fact, CPsi (terrible as it mostly is) even "officially" transplants the quori (ergo the existance of kalashtar) to other settings with the Psymbiont feat.

Human is great, as always. Elan can be tricky. To use its racial features you're giving up pp you could be spending on aiding combat. The gray elf is a pretty good choice, probably too powerful for LA 0. It's also something I personally wouldn't use on principle.
Bacris
05-12-07, 12:50 PM Of course, there's always the gray elf - in the MM. Gives you a bonus to INT.

My suggestion would be (no particular order):
Kalashtar
Human
Gray Elf
carnivore
05-12-07, 12:53 PM Kalashatar edge out Humans with some Racial Psionic items.....but Generally Humans are Best(except for some Builds...which work better with Gray Elf(+2 Int,+2 Dex,-2 Str,-2 Con, martial weapon proficiencies, bonus to skills)

Bacris beat me to it :tiphat:
:D
Fafnir
05-12-07, 12:53 PM Of course, there's always the gray elf - in the MM. Gives you a bonus to INT.

My suggestion would be (no particular order):
Kalashtar
Human
Gray Elf

... and Blue if you can get your DM to ignore the stupid +1 LA.
NHBDY
05-12-07, 01:26 PM what about elves or empty vessles?
Tempest Stormwind
05-12-07, 01:36 PM what about elves or empty vessles?

Psh. Elves. (http://llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target46.html)

We've already mentioned the grey elf. The others just aren't worth it (and I think the grey elf is cheesy as ****).

Empty vessels (spell it right, please; if you can't, just use the name they call themselves, "Chosen") are level-adjusted, which means they suffer the same problems that blues do, except without the +2 INT. Essentially, they're all that you'd want from Human plus all that you'd want from Kalashtar, but with a nasty level adjustment which is almost never a good idea on a primary manifester. Your call, but except in niche builds I wouldn't.

Seriously, though, any race works if you know what to do with it. (I say this as the current player of a halfling shaper.)

Omnirahk, you do know that Races of Eberron is a D&D standard book, not an Eberron book, right? That has the full kalashtar in it. (The psymbiot feat is hardly quori-inspired either. It's a weak version of Gestalt Anchor, which is a niche racial feat for kalashtar.)
JulesCARV
05-12-07, 02:06 PM Warforged -- good as shapers, what with Psionic Repair Damage. Also can take adamantine or mithral armor. (Or psiforged, but who bothers with that?) Also, metamorphosis would allow them to take the shape of constructs like retrievers.

Tiefling -- intelligence and dexterity bonus. Also, outsider type can be good with metamorphosis :).
fozzybear
05-12-07, 09:58 PM Empty vessels (spell it right, please; if you can't, just use the name they call themselves, "Chosen")
Chill out, everyone makes typos.

If you really want something with LA, I would choose human with the PHRENIC template although it is +2 LA.
Zankue
05-12-07, 11:36 PM Well I think you should be an Elan, not for staying alive but they get very good saves due to... resilience...? I mean +4 to any save for 1 power point, is pretty crazy with a feat it's +6, and if you can convince your DM to let u be Venerable you still have a few hundred years to live.
Tempest Stormwind
05-12-07, 11:45 PM Well I think you should be an Elan, not for staying alive but they get very good saves due to... resilience...? I mean +4 to any save for 1 power point, is pretty crazy with a feat it's +6, and if you can convince your DM to let u be Venerable you still have a few hundred years to live.

1) Immediate action, hefty opportunity cost.
2) Is a feat really worth a conditional +2 to any save that still drains daily resources?
3) Elans are immortal, no maximum age.
RadicalTaoist
05-13-07, 12:12 AM Normal goblins make pretty boss casters too.
Zankue
05-13-07, 12:20 AM 3) Elans are immortal, no maximum age.

Incorrect, page 16 of XPH Table 1-3. Elans live till 1000+10D% years, they last for immense amounts of time but they're not immortal.
InkBlot
05-13-07, 12:23 AM Check the errata. Elans are immortal. Their maximum age is listed as "N/A" -- non-applicable.
Sleepwalker13666
05-13-07, 12:33 AM I really like the Elans, in the current game I'm playing in, I'm using an Elan Wilder, thanks to the surge ability I have power points leftover to use on the Resistance, if you can get a copy of Complete Psionic (not a great book but theres a few good options) you can take the Feat "Elan Resistance" it improves their ability to absorb damage at 4 for 1 instead of 2 for 1.
Zankue
05-13-07, 01:27 AM Check the errata. Elans are immortal. Their maximum age is listed as "N/A" -- non-applicable.

What page?? mine is right there as I said, Expanded Psionics Handbook page 16 table 1-3: AGING EFFECTS
Race Middle Age Old Venerable Maximum Age
Dromite 30 yrs 55yrs 75years +2d20 yrs
Duergar 125yrs 188yrs 250yrs +2d% yrs
Elan 200yrs 400yrs 1,000yrs +10d% yrs
Githyanki 35yrs ....yada yada yada
JulesCARV
05-13-07, 01:39 AM XPH Errata, page 1 of the PDF (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/ExpPsiHdbk_Errata02062006.zip)
Millenia
05-13-07, 01:45 AM Errata isn't part of the Expanded Psionics Handbook proper, but rather it modifies it.

Check out this page: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a
NHBDY
05-13-07, 09:01 AM Normal goblins make pretty boss casters too.

HOW!?!?!?!?!??!!?:confused:
ck2001wendt
05-13-07, 10:22 AM For my money, Kalashtar make the best base Psion race, followed by Humans or Strongheart Halflings. Elan are my "favorite" Psion race, but I think this is more a question of flavor than superior mechanics.

I would NOT play a Phrenic creature without starting at the mid-levels and allowing LA-Buyoff.
kelvinaw273
05-13-07, 11:44 AM I'd put my vote with Kalashtar. The extra PP are well worth it, plus they have some nice swap-outs for Telepath levels, and a nice Will save bonus.
InkBlot
05-13-07, 12:21 PM Normal goblins make pretty boss casters too.HOW!?!?!?!?!??!!?:confused:
Goblins get a +2 AC and +2 to ranged touch attacks, for being small and dexterous. Psions can always use a little free AC, especialy at low levels, because of their low hit points. A bonus to ranged touch attacks means that your energy ray or crystal shard won't miss as often.

Also, please don't post one word replies. Please don't type using all capitols. Please don't use that many exclamation points and question marks.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
05-13-07, 01:02 PM Omnirahk, you do know that Races of Eberron is a D&D standard book, not an Eberron book, right? That has the full kalashtar in it. (The psymbiot feat is hardly quori-inspired either. It's a weak version of Gestalt Anchor, which is a niche racial feat for kalashtar.)

Right. I keep forgetting that. Though kalashtar are still officially an Eberron race. I'm just offering more support that they can be easily transplanted. As for psymbiont . . . whoops, I goofed up. That'll teach me to not double check before posting. I meant the . . . host feats, was it? The ones where you host a psionic entity. I know the book mentioned quori. Unfortunately, I don't have my book right now, so I can't get the quote.
RadicalTaoist
05-13-07, 02:54 PM Goblins get a +2 AC and +2 to ranged touch attacks, for being small and dexterous. Psions can always use a little free AC, especialy at low levels, because of their low hit points. A bonus to ranged touch attacks means that your energy ray or crystal shard won't miss as often.

Also, please don't post one word replies. Please don't type using all capitols. Please don't use that many exclamation points and question marks.

That, *plus* being one of the few small races with 30 ft. base move speed, and darkvision.
ck2001wendt
05-13-07, 03:00 PM Also, please don't post one word replies. Please don't type using all capitols. Please don't use that many exclamation points and question marks.

Please don't self-appoint yourself as the board authority on grammar and style, when the poster's response wasn't against the CoC.

RT gave essentially a one-word answer (goblins = YES!), the poster gave a one word reply (goblins = why?) and someone else filled in the blanks (goblins = because).
JulesCARV
05-13-07, 04:58 PM At the risk of callling down the wrath of every deity, outsider, or incarnate cosmic force concerned with balance, I should note that whisper gnomes also have a lot of potential as psions. And, well, everything but warriors and charisma-based types. (whisper gnomes are like goblins, except pretty much universally better at everything but riding)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NHBDY 05-12-07, 08:01 AM	I was starting a game and wanted to play a psion, which race would give me the best build at a max LA of +1? I only have access to the PHB, DMG, MM, Complete arcane, Dragon magic, Expanded Pionics handbook, Eberron campain setting.
Venenum 05-12-07, 09:22 AM	As a straight psion, the elan is good through epic lvls, if you have/ get complete psionic you can reduce damge by 4 for a single powerpoint. however you will need a killer int. Otherwise if the setting allows for it be a blue. small and bonus powerpoints, great combo.
Jaid 05-12-07, 09:36 AM	probably the best (or one of the best) overall would be a human.
Suldarr'essalar 05-12-07, 10:50 AM	As a straight psion, the elan is good through epic lvls, if you have/ get complete psionic you can reduce damge by 4 for a single powerpoint. however you will need a killer int. Otherwise if the setting allows for it be a blue. small and bonus powerpoints, great combo. Asw for the elan with greater resilience, vigor gives 5 temporary hit points which is in general a lot better deal than loosing a feat and shine at only 1 rare situation. As for Blue, You suck 1 level, that's 32 power points and 2 power known for +1 to DC and +10 power points. Generally it's better to go with human.
Thomar_of_Uointer 05-12-07, 11:33 AM	probably the best (or one of the best) overall would be a human. Seconded. If you're really looking for something with level adjustment, elans are very good at staying alive despite d4 Hit Dice, though you'll burn power points like a candle. Also check out Kalashtar from the Eberron Campaign Setting, very fun to play fluff-wise and the bonus power points are the best of any LA +0 race.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 05-12-07, 11:36 AM	Kalashtar are also quite great. Most psionic races get a static number of bonus power points. Kalashtar get 1/level, effectively one extra fully augmented power a day. Comparable to a caster get one bonus spell of highest level he/she can cast. Except it could also be broken up to slightly boost up to 20 powers a day. Sure, kalashtar are technically an Eberron race, but they transfer pretty well. In fact, CPsi (terrible as it mostly is) even "officially" transplants the quori (ergo the existance of kalashtar) to other settings with the Psymbiont feat. Human is great, as always. Elan can be tricky. To use its racial features you're giving up pp you could be spending on aiding combat. The gray elf is a pretty good choice, probably too powerful for LA 0. It's also something I personally wouldn't use on principle.
Bacris 05-12-07, 12:50 PM	Of course, there's always the gray elf - in the MM. Gives you a bonus to INT. My suggestion would be (no particular order): Kalashtar Human Gray Elf
carnivore 05-12-07, 12:53 PM	Kalashatar edge out Humans with some Racial Psionic items.....but Generally Humans are Best(except for some Builds...which work better with Gray Elf(+2 Int,+2 Dex,-2 Str,-2 Con, martial weapon proficiencies, bonus to skills) Bacris beat me to it :tiphat: :D
Fafnir 05-12-07, 12:53 PM	Of course, there's always the gray elf - in the MM. Gives you a bonus to INT. My suggestion would be (no particular order): Kalashtar Human Gray Elf ... and Blue if you can get your DM to ignore the stupid +1 LA.
NHBDY 05-12-07, 01:26 PM	what about elves or empty vessles?
Tempest Stormwind 05-12-07, 01:36 PM	what about elves or empty vessles? Psh. Elves. (http://llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target46.html) We've already mentioned the grey elf. The others just aren't worth it (and I think the grey elf is cheesy as ****). Empty vessels (spell it right, please; if you can't, just use the name they call themselves, "Chosen") are level-adjusted, which means they suffer the same problems that blues do, except without the +2 INT. Essentially, they're all that you'd want from Human plus all that you'd want from Kalashtar, but with a nasty level adjustment which is almost never a good idea on a primary manifester. Your call, but except in niche builds I wouldn't. Seriously, though, any race works if you know what to do with it. (I say this as the current player of a halfling shaper.) Omnirahk, you do know that Races of Eberron is a D&D standard book, not an Eberron book, right? That has the full kalashtar in it. (The psymbiot feat is hardly quori-inspired either. It's a weak version of Gestalt Anchor, which is a niche racial feat for kalashtar.)
JulesCARV 05-12-07, 02:06 PM	Warforged -- good as shapers, what with Psionic Repair Damage. Also can take adamantine or mithral armor. (Or psiforged, but who bothers with that?) Also, metamorphosis would allow them to take the shape of constructs like retrievers. Tiefling -- intelligence and dexterity bonus. Also, outsider type can be good with metamorphosis :).
fozzybear 05-12-07, 09:58 PM	Empty vessels (spell it right, please; if you can't, just use the name they call themselves, "Chosen") Chill out, everyone makes typos. If you really want something with LA, I would choose human with the PHRENIC template although it is +2 LA.
Zankue 05-12-07, 11:36 PM	Well I think you should be an Elan, not for staying alive but they get very good saves due to... resilience...? I mean +4 to any save for 1 power point, is pretty crazy with a feat it's +6, and if you can convince your DM to let u be Venerable you still have a few hundred years to live.
Tempest Stormwind 05-12-07, 11:45 PM	Well I think you should be an Elan, not for staying alive but they get very good saves due to... resilience...? I mean +4 to any save for 1 power point, is pretty crazy with a feat it's +6, and if you can convince your DM to let u be Venerable you still have a few hundred years to live. 1) Immediate action, hefty opportunity cost. 2) Is a feat really worth a conditional +2 to any save that still drains daily resources? 3) Elans are immortal, no maximum age.
RadicalTaoist 05-13-07, 12:12 AM	Normal goblins make pretty boss casters too.
Zankue 05-13-07, 12:20 AM	3) Elans are immortal, no maximum age. Incorrect, page 16 of XPH Table 1-3. Elans live till 1000+10D% years, they last for immense amounts of time but they're not immortal.
InkBlot 05-13-07, 12:23 AM	Check the errata. Elans are immortal. Their maximum age is listed as "N/A" -- non-applicable.
Sleepwalker13666 05-13-07, 12:33 AM	I really like the Elans, in the current game I'm playing in, I'm using an Elan Wilder, thanks to the surge ability I have power points leftover to use on the Resistance, if you can get a copy of Complete Psionic (not a great book but theres a few good options) you can take the Feat "Elan Resistance" it improves their ability to absorb damage at 4 for 1 instead of 2 for 1.
Zankue 05-13-07, 01:27 AM	Check the errata. Elans are immortal. Their maximum age is listed as "N/A" -- non-applicable. What page?? mine is right there as I said, Expanded Psionics Handbook page 16 table 1-3: AGING EFFECTS Race Middle Age Old Venerable Maximum Age Dromite 30 yrs 55yrs 75years +2d20 yrs Duergar 125yrs 188yrs 250yrs +2d% yrs Elan 200yrs 400yrs 1,000yrs +10d% yrs Githyanki 35yrs ....yada yada yada
JulesCARV 05-13-07, 01:39 AM	XPH Errata, page 1 of the PDF (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/ExpPsiHdbk_Errata02062006.zip)
Millenia 05-13-07, 01:45 AM	Errata isn't part of the Expanded Psionics Handbook proper, but rather it modifies it. Check out this page: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a
NHBDY 05-13-07, 09:01 AM	Normal goblins make pretty boss casters too. HOW!?!?!?!?!??!!?:confused:
ck2001wendt 05-13-07, 10:22 AM	For my money, Kalashtar make the best base Psion race, followed by Humans or Strongheart Halflings. Elan are my "favorite" Psion race, but I think this is more a question of flavor than superior mechanics. I would NOT play a Phrenic creature without starting at the mid-levels and allowing LA-Buyoff.
kelvinaw273 05-13-07, 11:44 AM	I'd put my vote with Kalashtar. The extra PP are well worth it, plus they have some nice swap-outs for Telepath levels, and a nice Will save bonus.
InkBlot 05-13-07, 12:21 PM	Normal goblins make pretty boss casters too.HOW!?!?!?!?!??!!?:confused: Goblins get a +2 AC and +2 to ranged touch attacks, for being small and dexterous. Psions can always use a little free AC, especialy at low levels, because of their low hit points. A bonus to ranged touch attacks means that your energy ray or crystal shard won't miss as often. Also, please don't post one word replies. Please don't type using all capitols. Please don't use that many exclamation points and question marks.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 05-13-07, 01:02 PM	Omnirahk, you do know that Races of Eberron is a D&D standard book, not an Eberron book, right? That has the full kalashtar in it. (The psymbiot feat is hardly quori-inspired either. It's a weak version of Gestalt Anchor, which is a niche racial feat for kalashtar.) Right. I keep forgetting that. Though kalashtar are still officially an Eberron race. I'm just offering more support that they can be easily transplanted. As for psymbiont . . . whoops, I goofed up. That'll teach me to not double check before posting. I meant the . . . host feats, was it? The ones where you host a psionic entity. I know the book mentioned quori. Unfortunately, I don't have my book right now, so I can't get the quote.
RadicalTaoist 05-13-07, 02:54 PM	Goblins get a +2 AC and +2 to ranged touch attacks, for being small and dexterous. Psions can always use a little free AC, especialy at low levels, because of their low hit points. A bonus to ranged touch attacks means that your energy ray or crystal shard won't miss as often. Also, please don't post one word replies. Please don't type using all capitols. Please don't use that many exclamation points and question marks. That, plus being one of the few small races with 30 ft. base move speed, and darkvision.
ck2001wendt 05-13-07, 03:00 PM	Also, please don't post one word replies. Please don't type using all capitols. Please don't use that many exclamation points and question marks. Please don't self-appoint yourself as the board authority on grammar and style, when the poster's response wasn't against the CoC. RT gave essentially a one-word answer (goblins = YES!), the poster gave a one word reply (goblins = why?) and someone else filled in the blanks (goblins = because).
JulesCARV 05-13-07, 04:58 PM	At the risk of callling down the wrath of every deity, outsider, or incarnate cosmic force concerned with balance, I should note that whisper gnomes also have a lot of potential as psions. And, well, everything but warriors and charisma-based types. (whisper gnomes are like goblins, except pretty much universally better at everything but riding)