Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pitiless_Interfector 10-21-07, 11:28 PM	I was wondering why there hasn't been a class that simultaneously advances wilder and psion power progression (like the Ultimate Magus advances both Wizard and Sorcerer progression). And then it hit me: Psion/Wilder 20: 343+(Int or Cha mod x7) power points Psion 5/Wilder 5/Dual PrC 10: 195+195+(Int mod x7)+(Cha mod x7) power points. So, an Int 15/Cha 14 character could have well upwards of 400 power points, and would only miss out on 9th-level powers (which all suck, except for the discipline-exclusive ones). Would it be too broken to do a straight port?
PhaedrusXY 10-22-07, 12:37 AM	Also, the powers manifested by the Psion side can benefit from Wild Surge. And many augmented lower level psionic powers are almost as good as higher level powers. I doubt 5/5/10 would be optimal, either. You'd be better off with 3/7/10, like all the other "theurge" classes.
rampant 10-22-07, 01:21 AM	The other problem with a psionic ultmag is that both psion and wilder are spont casters, you might be able to try something with the erudite/wilder combo, but even the erudite is closer mechanically to a spont caster. Now if you mean something like the cerebremancer but for psi-psi instead of psi-arcane, then that could be potent, but probably not as bad as you seem to think seeing as the wild-surge would not increase in power.
CrimsonDeath 10-22-07, 02:03 AM	Psion/Wilder 20: 343+(Int or Cha mod x7) power points Psion 5/Wilder 5/Dual PrC 10: 195+195+(Int mod x7)+(Cha mod x7) power points. For the Psion 20 or Wilder 20, wouldn't you get 10x your primary manifesting ability modifier in bonus PP? Assuming Gray Elf Psion or Spellscale Wilder, that could be 25 Int or Cha before items. That's 70 bonus PP due to ability scores, compared to the Ultimate Psionicist's 28. So, I guess the Ultimate Psionicist still comes out 5 ahead... Hmm... I wonder if you'd be better off with an Ardent/PsyWar/UltPsi.
Bacris 10-22-07, 09:28 AM	I was wondering why there hasn't been a class that simultaneously advances wilder and psion power progression (like the Ultimate Magus advances both Wizard and Sorcerer progression). And then it hit me: Psion/Wilder 20: 343+(Int or Cha mod x7) power points Psion 5/Wilder 5/Dual PrC 10: 195+195+(Int mod x7)+(Cha mod x7) power points. So, an Int 15/Cha 14 character could have well upwards of 400 power points, and would only miss out on 9th-level powers (which all suck, except for the discipline-exclusive ones). Would it be too broken to do a straight port? Nobody in their right mind would do 5/5/10. As posted above, you would do 3/7/10. The problem with doing this with dual manifesting classes vs casters is casters don't share spell slots as manifesters share power points. This would give 250+147+bonus power points... Wild Surge +2 + Practiced Manifester = 22 pp per manifestation for psion powers, plus 9th level powers... An extra 2 powers known (7 from wilder, 31 from psion, vs flat 36 from psion), and enervation only costs you 3 pp, because it's based on wilder level, not manifester level. I might allow something closer to the True Necro PrC, although that's not exactly a perfect class, either.
deviknyte 10-22-07, 09:52 AM	I just finished a home brew of this exact prestige class. And yeah. The build is going to be like every other wiz/beguiler out there using practiced manifester to their advantage. Now it's not all that overpowering. Seriously not at all. The only problem you end up with is you have to home errata Ardent because their maxium power level access is based on manifester level. You have to give them a maximum power level chart otherwise you end up with 9th level powers on both sides (although not the pps to match but it's really overpowered with the power points he/she has). Other than that it's fine. Just mirror ultimate magis with 7 levels of +both and 3 levels of +lower and you should be fine. Turn arcane power to psionic power prowess. Turn expanded spell knowledge into a power level limited version of the Expanded Knowledge feat. I changed augmented casting to metapsifocus. 3+1/2 your class level times per day you can not choose not to expend your psionic focuse for a meta psionic feat to work. Bonus feat is any meta or psionic feat. Here was the original thread if you wanna check it out. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=925676
PhaedrusXY 10-22-07, 02:02 PM	Even given what Bacris points out, I still don't think the PrC would be overpowered. You're going to be three levels behind on getting access to higher level powers, which is huge, unless you're an Ardent.
CrimsonDeath 10-22-07, 04:04 PM	Even given what Bacris points out, I still don't think the PrC would be overpowered. You're going to be three levels behind on getting access to higher level powers, which is huge, unless you're an Ardent. Although not quite as huge in Psionics as in magic.
awaken_D_M_golem 10-22-07, 05:13 PM	umm ... Anarchic Initiate. Combining Psion + Wilder, hints at 2nd Edition Psionics. But the game of the Wilder is pp efficiency. With double-ish pp, what's the point? And being behind in levels for a Wilder, reduces it's main class feature, to the equivalent of Practised Manifester with quirks. I'm also feeling a little bit of Psionic X syndrome, here. And that makes me sad ... :( So, let's do something non-psi-X-ee. Wild Surge +2 qualifying. 1st level powers in two other psionic classes. Advances pp in Wilder (or AI) only. Advances Wilder class features at 1/2 rate. Advances powers known in all three classes. Advances other class features at 1/2 rate. Low BAB, d4, 2+ skills but from any list. End up with Wilder 13 on some things, Wilder 8 others, Class A 11/6 , Class B 11/6. Complicated enough to keep the Psi- is bork crowd confused. Can someone say multiple Practised Manifesters ?!