Psionic Archers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionic Archers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fraglan
09-18-07, 05:39 PM This post is by a player in Fraglan's game, not Fraglan himself.

Hi there.

I've looked at the archer books in the CO forums, and the PW build guide, but most of them don't seem up to date with current books.

I'm going to be starting a game with Fraglan at 5th level soon, and I want to play a ranged damage role. I've had a backstory for a monk-type archer for a while, but haven't been really sure how to build it in. I'm probably going to use a greatbow and I definitely want to take Zen Archery.

What I would like to do is build this with as an Ardent, but I have no idea how. Is an Ardent significantly weaker at this role than a PW?

I guess I am just looking for general build advise on this topic, and power selection help. One thing: The SRD version of the Slayer is right now, and Frag says there is little to no chance of finding Illithids in the game.

I know that a Ranger/Scout with Swift Hunter is better, but I want to make use of self buffing Psionic Powers, and try to make a totally self sufficient character. One that can do everything from power up himself and his weapons right down to heal himself.

Sorry for rambling, I am still working this out in my head.

Edit:

Oh. One other thing: I'd like to be armorless as well. Not a big deal for an archer, I hope
InkBlot
09-18-07, 06:35 PM The Psychic Warrior is better for bows and arrows. The Ardent is better for crystals and lasers.

The Psychic Warrior gives you a whole bucket-ton more feats, and several exclusive powers. You don't need all the power points the Ardent gives, since you'll just be using buffs and you don't need power points to fire a composite longbow.

A lot of the Psychic Warrior's powers work with ranged weapons, even if the name of the power is misleading. Dissolving Weapon, for instance, can be used to charge up your arrows in advance. Chain Power can be used with some of these powers to charge up multiple arrows at once.
Lycanthromancer
09-18-07, 08:08 PM Heh. And then there's the whole marksman thing from Untapped Potential (before Bacris or Tempest get to it). He's the penultimate archer (the ultimate archer is the cleric, but he's the ultimate EVERYTHING).

Of course, with feats, you could take psychic warrior, get crystal shard via Expanded Knowledge, then save lots of power points by using Psionic Shot and Greater Psionic Shot.

Of course, if you're going pretty high level, there's always energy conversion. Great for thwacking enemies, especially if you have schism, metamorphosis, and a psicrystal. Manifest metamorphosis to turn your crystal into something not immune to mind-affecting effects, manifest schism on it, and since you used a Split Psionic Ray'd energy conversion and stored up lots of energy earlier via energy wall, you can toss out 8 energy rays per round (2 beams each for you, your schism, your psicrystal, and its schism).

That's 8 * 3 * your manifester level in damage each round (assuming you hit, and if you overcome PR, and if you're NOT using Greater Psionic Shot). Not bad.
PhaedrusXY
09-19-07, 12:41 PM Greater Psionic Shot + Dorje Mastery + Psychic Meditation = good cheap ranged damage.
InkBlot
09-19-07, 05:24 PM On the other hand, using Manyshot is only a standard action. That leaves a move action to refocus with Psychic Meditation so you can bump one of your arrows up another +4d6 with Greater Psionic Shot.

Greater Psionic Shot plus Manyshot with a +1 flaming composite (+2 str) longbow:
Costs 8,600 gp. Two ranged attacks with an effective -3. 2d8 + 6d6 + 4 total damage. Takes six feats*, including Point Blank and Precise Shot. As many uses as you want because arrows are dirt cheap.
*Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot, Many Shot, Psionic Meditation

Dorje Mastery plus Greater Psionic Shot plus Dorje of Crystal Shard (ML 1):
Costs 425gp + 30xp + 1 day. One ranged touch attack with no special modifier. 9d6 total damage. Takes five feats*, but you'll probably want Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot too. Only 50 uses per pop, then you toss it and make a new one.
*Craft Dorje, Dorje Mastery, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot, Expanded Knowledge (crystal shard)

You need to be at least 9th level to pull off either strategy, and you can't get Expanded Knowledge (crystal shard) until at least 4th level.
PhaedrusXY
09-19-07, 05:30 PM The version of Dorje Mastery that I remember seeing required 9th level, actually.
InkBlot
09-19-07, 05:47 PM Right. It is 9th. Sorry. I was thinking about how the PsyWar would have +6 BAB at 9th level and got mixed up.
Sagetim
09-19-07, 06:11 PM This post is by a player in Fraglan's game, not Fraglan himself.

Hi there.

I've looked at the archer books in the CO forums, and the PW build guide, but most of them don't seem up to date with current books.

I'm going to be starting a game with Fraglan at 5th level soon, and I want to play a ranged damage role. I've had a backstory for a monk-type archer for a while, but haven't been really sure how to build it in. I'm probably going to use a greatbow and I definitely want to take Zen Archery.

What I would like to do is build this with as an Ardent, but I have no idea how. Is an Ardent significantly weaker at this role than a PW?

I guess I am just looking for general build advise on this topic, and power selection help. One thing: The SRD version of the Slayer is right now, and Frag says there is little to no chance of finding Illithids in the game.

I know that a Ranger/Scout with Swift Hunter is better, but I want to make use of self buffing Psionic Powers, and try to make a totally self sufficient character. One that can do everything from power up himself and his weapons right down to heal himself.

Sorry for rambling, I am still working this out in my head.

Edit:

Oh. One other thing: I'd like to be armorless as well. Not a big deal for an archer, I hope

Soulknife + Soulbow PRC. Add in psychic meditation, Point blank shot, Psionic shot, and greater psionic shot/ whatever ranged feats you want. Might not be the best 'ranged damage dealer' but at level 6 you'll be shooting energy beams out of your hands. I really don't think many classes can top that. Except maybe warlock. But they're not psychic. and if you REALLY want some extra bab (suggested) go for a fighter 3/soulknife 2 and get some extra feats.
However, if you want to go 'no armor but still good AC' then you'll probably want soulknife 2/monk 3. Give him good wisdom, and zen archery. Then when you start soulbowing you'll get that wisdom bonus as both to hit and damage (soulbow blast deals 1d8 + wis modifier base damage or as a longbow for character size X).

Ramble ramble ramble, mmmm, soubow. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/Sagetim/poster75734831.jpg

Also worth noting: soulbow prc gives you a free, limitless use 'bow' that can never be disarmed, never be sundered, and as your soulbow level goes up, it gets stronger for free. No gp cost involved, no long crafting times to wait for. And best of all, you can rearrange the powers. Also, if your willing to forego monk levels, and go straight soulknife/soulbow, you will have the soulknife weapon of the level 5 strength. IE: +1, can be reshaped between a +1 short, +1 long, or +1 bastard sword, or two 'normal' shortswords. Free weapon focus in mindblade at first level of soulknife gives all attacks with your mindblade (and bow) an auto +1 to hit. mmmmm
InkBlot
09-19-07, 06:33 PM Soulbow gives you a bonus feat at 1st level, which can be used to nab Zen Archery. This is a smart thing to do, since Soulbow also adds your Wisdom bonus to damage with mind arrows.
PhaedrusXY
09-19-07, 06:36 PM Soulbow gives you a bonus feat at 1st level, which can be used to nab Zen Archery. This is a smart thing to do, since Soulbow also adds your Wisdom bonus to damage with mind arrows.Don't you mean MIND BULLETS, Kyle?
CrimsonDeath
09-19-07, 06:48 PM Soulbow gives you a bonus feat at 1st level, which can be used to nab Zen Archery. This is a smart thing to do, since Soulbow also adds your Wisdom bonus to damage with mind arrows.
I know someone who did this with a venerable Dragonwrought kobold.
InkBlot
09-19-07, 06:48 PM Don't you mean MIND BULLETS, Kyle?
lol, yes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFmNNRIdbCE&mode=related&search=)

Another thing to keep in mind is that when multiclass classes with 3/4 BAB, you should take your levels in multiples of 4 in order to maximize your BAB. For example, take these two builds which both have ten character levels; Soulknife 5/Monk 3/Soulbow 2 gives +6/+1 BAB, while Soulknife 4/Monk4/Soulbow 2 gives +7/+2 BAB

This doesn't apply to levels of full BAB classes, such as Fighter, and 1/2 BAB classes go two at a time (if they worry about BAB at all).
Sagetim
09-19-07, 09:48 PM lol, yes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFmNNRIdbCE&mode=related&search=)

Another thing to keep in mind is that when multiclass classes with 3/4 BAB, you should take your levels in multiples of 4 in order to maximize your BAB. For example, take these two builds which both have ten character levels; Soulknife 5/Monk 3/Soulbow 2 gives +6/+1 BAB, while Soulknife 4/Monk4/Soulbow 2 gives +7/+2 BAB

This doesn't apply to levels of full BAB classes, such as Fighter, and 1/2 BAB classes go two at a time (if they worry about BAB at all).
as stated earlier, if you feel that your lacking in bab or feats, mix in fighter levels with soulknife in the initial build. 2 or 3 fighter levels could be nice to have. However, if your campaign is going to last long enough to go to level 7, you could always get 4 fighter/2 soulknife, then start in on soulbow at level 7. you might not have multiple attacks till level 8, but you'll be able to get weapon specialization for your mindblade or...some other feat you might want. Like return shot, or fell shot or something. well, those would be at level 6 or 9, but you get my point.
CrimsonDeath
09-19-07, 10:02 PM 2 or 4 fighter levels could be nice to have.
Fixed. (Odd levels of Fighter make baby Pun-Pun cry.)
Sagetim
09-19-07, 10:32 PM Fixed. (Odd levels of Fighter make baby Pun-Pun cry.)

Actually I quite intended the odd fighter level. it may not look that great because it lacks a bonus feat, but it allows you to grab weapon specilization whenever you need it. example: you might want soulbow sooner, and on one of the levels you feel the real need to get that +2 damage. So instead of getting another bow level, you grab the fourth fighter level and get specilization. Or, you may find at a higher level that you really do need a feat you weren't expecting, and voila, you can get it.
CrimsonDeath
09-20-07, 04:08 AM Actually I quite intended the odd fighter level. it may not look that great because it lacks a bonus feat, but it allows you to grab weapon specilization whenever you need it. example: you might want soulbow sooner, and on one of the levels you feel the real need to get that +2 damage. So instead of getting another bow level, you grab the fourth fighter level and get specilization. Or, you may find at a higher level that you really do need a feat you weren't expecting, and voila, you can get it.

Just as long as you're planning to take the fourth level eventually.
cruxvader
09-20-07, 06:08 AM My Psion stole all the arrows to robin's shrubbery and now he has no honor.
Fraglan
09-20-07, 02:47 PM I condensed all the replies to email, and sent the off to the guy. He's trying to stay away from Soulbows though. Personal preference I suppose. He wants to manifest powers.

He did want me to extend thanks for the help so far, and that he will reply soon.
Sagetim
09-20-07, 08:54 PM I condensed all the replies to email, and sent the off to the guy. He's trying to stay away from Soulbows though. Personal preference I suppose. He wants to manifest powers.

He did want me to extend thanks for the help so far, and that he will reply soon.

oh, well if he wanted that then psychic warrior is a good bet, or a monk with wild talent then multiclassing into fist of zuoken.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fraglan 09-18-07, 05:39 PM	This post is by a player in Fraglan's game, not Fraglan himself. Hi there. I've looked at the archer books in the CO forums, and the PW build guide, but most of them don't seem up to date with current books. I'm going to be starting a game with Fraglan at 5th level soon, and I want to play a ranged damage role. I've had a backstory for a monk-type archer for a while, but haven't been really sure how to build it in. I'm probably going to use a greatbow and I definitely want to take Zen Archery. What I would like to do is build this with as an Ardent, but I have no idea how. Is an Ardent significantly weaker at this role than a PW? I guess I am just looking for general build advise on this topic, and power selection help. One thing: The SRD version of the Slayer is right now, and Frag says there is little to no chance of finding Illithids in the game. I know that a Ranger/Scout with Swift Hunter is better, but I want to make use of self buffing Psionic Powers, and try to make a totally self sufficient character. One that can do everything from power up himself and his weapons right down to heal himself. Sorry for rambling, I am still working this out in my head. Edit: Oh. One other thing: I'd like to be armorless as well. Not a big deal for an archer, I hope
InkBlot 09-18-07, 06:35 PM	The Psychic Warrior is better for bows and arrows. The Ardent is better for crystals and lasers. The Psychic Warrior gives you a whole bucket-ton more feats, and several exclusive powers. You don't need all the power points the Ardent gives, since you'll just be using buffs and you don't need power points to fire a composite longbow. A lot of the Psychic Warrior's powers work with ranged weapons, even if the name of the power is misleading. Dissolving Weapon, for instance, can be used to charge up your arrows in advance. Chain Power can be used with some of these powers to charge up multiple arrows at once.
Lycanthromancer 09-18-07, 08:08 PM	Heh. And then there's the whole marksman thing from Untapped Potential (before Bacris or Tempest get to it). He's the penultimate archer (the ultimate archer is the cleric, but he's the ultimate EVERYTHING). Of course, with feats, you could take psychic warrior, get crystal shard via Expanded Knowledge, then save lots of power points by using Psionic Shot and Greater Psionic Shot. Of course, if you're going pretty high level, there's always energy conversion. Great for thwacking enemies, especially if you have schism, metamorphosis, and a psicrystal. Manifest metamorphosis to turn your crystal into something not immune to mind-affecting effects, manifest schism on it, and since you used a Split Psionic Ray'd energy conversion and stored up lots of energy earlier via energy wall, you can toss out 8 energy rays per round (2 beams each for you, your schism, your psicrystal, and its schism). That's 8 * 3 * your manifester level in damage each round (assuming you hit, and if you overcome PR, and if you're NOT using Greater Psionic Shot). Not bad.
PhaedrusXY 09-19-07, 12:41 PM	Greater Psionic Shot + Dorje Mastery + Psychic Meditation = good cheap ranged damage.
InkBlot 09-19-07, 05:24 PM	On the other hand, using Manyshot is only a standard action. That leaves a move action to refocus with Psychic Meditation so you can bump one of your arrows up another +4d6 with Greater Psionic Shot. Greater Psionic Shot plus Manyshot with a +1 flaming composite (+2 str) longbow: Costs 8,600 gp. Two ranged attacks with an effective -3. 2d8 + 6d6 + 4 total damage. Takes six feats, including Point Blank and Precise Shot. As many uses as you want because arrows are dirt cheap. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot, Many Shot, Psionic Meditation Dorje Mastery plus Greater Psionic Shot plus Dorje of Crystal Shard (ML 1): Costs 425gp + 30xp + 1 day. One ranged touch attack with no special modifier. 9d6 total damage. Takes five feats, but you'll probably want Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot too. Only 50 uses per pop, then you toss it and make a new one. Craft Dorje, Dorje Mastery, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot, Expanded Knowledge (crystal shard) You need to be at least 9th level to pull off either strategy, and you can't get Expanded Knowledge (crystal shard) until at least 4th level.
PhaedrusXY 09-19-07, 05:30 PM	The version of Dorje Mastery that I remember seeing required 9th level, actually.
InkBlot 09-19-07, 05:47 PM	Right. It is 9th. Sorry. I was thinking about how the PsyWar would have +6 BAB at 9th level and got mixed up.
Sagetim 09-19-07, 06:11 PM	This post is by a player in Fraglan's game, not Fraglan himself. Hi there. I've looked at the archer books in the CO forums, and the PW build guide, but most of them don't seem up to date with current books. I'm going to be starting a game with Fraglan at 5th level soon, and I want to play a ranged damage role. I've had a backstory for a monk-type archer for a while, but haven't been really sure how to build it in. I'm probably going to use a greatbow and I definitely want to take Zen Archery. What I would like to do is build this with as an Ardent, but I have no idea how. Is an Ardent significantly weaker at this role than a PW? I guess I am just looking for general build advise on this topic, and power selection help. One thing: The SRD version of the Slayer is right now, and Frag says there is little to no chance of finding Illithids in the game. I know that a Ranger/Scout with Swift Hunter is better, but I want to make use of self buffing Psionic Powers, and try to make a totally self sufficient character. One that can do everything from power up himself and his weapons right down to heal himself. Sorry for rambling, I am still working this out in my head. Edit: Oh. One other thing: I'd like to be armorless as well. Not a big deal for an archer, I hope Soulknife + Soulbow PRC. Add in psychic meditation, Point blank shot, Psionic shot, and greater psionic shot/ whatever ranged feats you want. Might not be the best 'ranged damage dealer' but at level 6 you'll be shooting energy beams out of your hands. I really don't think many classes can top that. Except maybe warlock. But they're not psychic. and if you REALLY want some extra bab (suggested) go for a fighter 3/soulknife 2 and get some extra feats. However, if you want to go 'no armor but still good AC' then you'll probably want soulknife 2/monk 3. Give him good wisdom, and zen archery. Then when you start soulbowing you'll get that wisdom bonus as both to hit and damage (soulbow blast deals 1d8 + wis modifier base damage or as a longbow for character size X). Ramble ramble ramble, mmmm, soubow. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/Sagetim/poster75734831.jpg Also worth noting: soulbow prc gives you a free, limitless use 'bow' that can never be disarmed, never be sundered, and as your soulbow level goes up, it gets stronger for free. No gp cost involved, no long crafting times to wait for. And best of all, you can rearrange the powers. Also, if your willing to forego monk levels, and go straight soulknife/soulbow, you will have the soulknife weapon of the level 5 strength. IE: +1, can be reshaped between a +1 short, +1 long, or +1 bastard sword, or two 'normal' shortswords. Free weapon focus in mindblade at first level of soulknife gives all attacks with your mindblade (and bow) an auto +1 to hit. mmmmm
InkBlot 09-19-07, 06:33 PM	Soulbow gives you a bonus feat at 1st level, which can be used to nab Zen Archery. This is a smart thing to do, since Soulbow also adds your Wisdom bonus to damage with mind arrows.
PhaedrusXY 09-19-07, 06:36 PM	Soulbow gives you a bonus feat at 1st level, which can be used to nab Zen Archery. This is a smart thing to do, since Soulbow also adds your Wisdom bonus to damage with mind arrows.Don't you mean MIND BULLETS, Kyle?
CrimsonDeath 09-19-07, 06:48 PM	Soulbow gives you a bonus feat at 1st level, which can be used to nab Zen Archery. This is a smart thing to do, since Soulbow also adds your Wisdom bonus to damage with mind arrows. I know someone who did this with a venerable Dragonwrought kobold.
InkBlot 09-19-07, 06:48 PM	Don't you mean MIND BULLETS, Kyle? lol, yes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFmNNRIdbCE&mode=related&search=) Another thing to keep in mind is that when multiclass classes with 3/4 BAB, you should take your levels in multiples of 4 in order to maximize your BAB. For example, take these two builds which both have ten character levels; Soulknife 5/Monk 3/Soulbow 2 gives +6/+1 BAB, while Soulknife 4/Monk4/Soulbow 2 gives +7/+2 BAB This doesn't apply to levels of full BAB classes, such as Fighter, and 1/2 BAB classes go two at a time (if they worry about BAB at all).
Sagetim 09-19-07, 09:48 PM	lol, yes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFmNNRIdbCE&mode=related&search=) Another thing to keep in mind is that when multiclass classes with 3/4 BAB, you should take your levels in multiples of 4 in order to maximize your BAB. For example, take these two builds which both have ten character levels; Soulknife 5/Monk 3/Soulbow 2 gives +6/+1 BAB, while Soulknife 4/Monk4/Soulbow 2 gives +7/+2 BAB This doesn't apply to levels of full BAB classes, such as Fighter, and 1/2 BAB classes go two at a time (if they worry about BAB at all). as stated earlier, if you feel that your lacking in bab or feats, mix in fighter levels with soulknife in the initial build. 2 or 3 fighter levels could be nice to have. However, if your campaign is going to last long enough to go to level 7, you could always get 4 fighter/2 soulknife, then start in on soulbow at level 7. you might not have multiple attacks till level 8, but you'll be able to get weapon specialization for your mindblade or...some other feat you might want. Like return shot, or fell shot or something. well, those would be at level 6 or 9, but you get my point.
CrimsonDeath 09-19-07, 10:02 PM	2 or 4 fighter levels could be nice to have. Fixed. (Odd levels of Fighter make baby Pun-Pun cry.)
Sagetim 09-19-07, 10:32 PM	Fixed. (Odd levels of Fighter make baby Pun-Pun cry.) Actually I quite intended the odd fighter level. it may not look that great because it lacks a bonus feat, but it allows you to grab weapon specilization whenever you need it. example: you might want soulbow sooner, and on one of the levels you feel the real need to get that +2 damage. So instead of getting another bow level, you grab the fourth fighter level and get specilization. Or, you may find at a higher level that you really do need a feat you weren't expecting, and voila, you can get it.
CrimsonDeath 09-20-07, 04:08 AM	Actually I quite intended the odd fighter level. it may not look that great because it lacks a bonus feat, but it allows you to grab weapon specilization whenever you need it. example: you might want soulbow sooner, and on one of the levels you feel the real need to get that +2 damage. So instead of getting another bow level, you grab the fourth fighter level and get specilization. Or, you may find at a higher level that you really do need a feat you weren't expecting, and voila, you can get it. Just as long as you're planning to take the fourth level eventually.
cruxvader 09-20-07, 06:08 AM	My Psion stole all the arrows to robin's shrubbery and now he has no honor.
Fraglan 09-20-07, 02:47 PM	I condensed all the replies to email, and sent the off to the guy. He's trying to stay away from Soulbows though. Personal preference I suppose. He wants to manifest powers. He did want me to extend thanks for the help so far, and that he will reply soon.
Sagetim 09-20-07, 08:54 PM	I condensed all the replies to email, and sent the off to the guy. He's trying to stay away from Soulbows though. Personal preference I suppose. He wants to manifest powers. He did want me to extend thanks for the help so far, and that he will reply soon. oh, well if he wanted that then psychic warrior is a good bet, or a monk with wild talent then multiclassing into fist of zuoken.