Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RedRory 05-22-07, 10:23 PM	Hello all I thought I would troll for some advice on this board. Now first off I am not saying psionics is overpowered but I do have some issues in my current campaign that stem from psionics and the power point system so without further ado here's the situation: I have been running games for some years but due to schedules have not run a long ongoing campaign for sometime. Usually the games end up fizzling out around 5th level. Well now I have had a good group and are beginning to reach mid levels 6,7 or so. And now I'm beginning to notice some issues re psionics. The psion in the party is 5th (on the cusp of 6th) and has I believe about 35 power points (bonus, class and race). Which means she can unloose a 3rd level power 7 times a day. Well unsurprisingly she chose Energy Bolt as one of her powers for some good old artillery. Now she's whipping those off and generally mowing through encounters. I wouldn't have these issues with a wizard or even a sorceror as they're not able to cast as many 3rd level spells per day. Any suggestions on how to deal with this? (Without every encounter about mobbing the player. I've done it a few times now and can only use that tactic sparingly). Many thanks for any help.
glacialcat 05-22-07, 10:36 PM	Multiple enemies not in a 120 foot line, say a pincer attack or simply a triangle formation so he can't hit them all? Illusions cast by a mage so he wastes an energy bolt? 5 or 6 encounters per day every once in a while, so its hard for him to do more than one energy bolt an encounter without worrying about the next time? Simply Energy Resistance? Spell Resistance once in a while? Rogues with evasion? Hexblades with Mettle (for Cold damage)? There's lots of choices here, energy damage isn't that hard to counter, and its really easy to line up opponents so 120 line doesn't hit more than say, 2 of them. Don't go out of your way to nerf him, just always make him think twice about letting lose his strongest power, because he might want to test to see if they have fire resistance, or spell resistance, or if they even exist (illusions). Its not even that strong of a power, only like 23 damage average if he uses fire damage. Anything with a d10 hit die at that level will have around 32 HP without even taking CON into account, so it won't even kill them before the save, and most things with less than a d10 hit die have some way to avoid it (evasion, spells, ect). 5d6+5 damage seven times a day sounds strong compared to a wizard's possible 3 3rd level spells at the same level, but take into account their second level spells. A scorching ray has similar damage output (4d6 damage), and doesn't even allow a save for half, and its a 2nd level spell. The psion can do 35d6 + 35 damage per day, while the wizard could do 15d6 + 16d6 + 15d4 + 15 + 5d3 damage per day, just from Fireball, Scorching Ray, Magic Missile, and Acid Splash. This assumes a specialist wizard though. But since all psions must have a discipline, its pretty equal to compare a psion and a specialist wizard. Sorceror would be a bit weaker at this level, but thats because they don't get 3rd level spells until Lv.6. At Lv.6 the sorceror's damage abilities exceed the psion's. And this isn't even taking into account that direct damage, is a pretty lame way to actually harm your enemies. Seems your issue is less with the psion being more damaging than the wizard, and more with the psion being able to push all this damage faster than the wizard. It is important to not make him think you're targeting him only though. That's why I suggested something like a pincer attack earlier. That'll make the psion unable to blast them all, might screw up the Rogue's plans on flanking, might limit the barbarian's ability to charge, and no one would like being flanked. Illusions can be a good way to mess with everyone too. The rogue wastes his turn getting into position to flank a fake foe. The barbarian cleaves through a puny kobold, only to find no blood on his blade, the cleric tries to turn a wraith and finds his powers unable to effect it, and the psion's fire bursts straight through the enemy. An encounter like that would be a good way to eat through resources of the party, and not actually put them in any danger. Two or three kobold sorcerors who use silent images to make the battle more epic than it appears, but once all the illusions are gone, there's not much of a challenge. Of course, that said, don't always do things like this. Just as its important to limit his powers sometimes, to make him not always rely on it, every once in a while throw him a bone and toss 5 orcs in a straight line for him to fry with his energy bolt. Just don't make it the boss battle of the day.
forsaken1111 05-22-07, 10:38 PM	Well my first instinct is to say the problem is the DM... let me explain. DND is balanced for 3-4 encounters per day. From what you've said, it sounds like the psion is going nova on the first 1-2 encounters and then resting... Start hitting them with 4 or even 5 separate encounters in a day, forcing them to start conserving power points/spells to deal with everything. Don't allow them to rest more than once a day... etc.
Rageheart 05-23-07, 11:22 AM	Intelligent opponents: After the first blast levels 3-4 of them at least one of them decides to disrupt the caster with a well timed attack. at 6th level the DC for a concentration check from damage can still be intimidating, (10+ damage dealt) and if she fails she loses those power points too.
RedRory 05-23-07, 12:43 PM	Thanks for the replies I've heard a lot of good ideas particularly as most are not singling out the PC. Though the one issue I should speak to. As one poster noted D&D is balanced for many encounters in a single day. This may be my problem. I generally don't do the prolonged dungeon crawl or any in the way of random wilderness encounters. It's not atypical to have only two or three full on combats in a session as the group leans to problem-solving/Role-playing with only a side order of hack and slash. So thus now that they're reaching higher levels I'll need to alter some adventure structure as the psion has demonstrated. But otherwise the illusion ideas, pincer tactics were all great and I'll certainly make use of them. Thanks.
forsaken1111 05-23-07, 01:18 PM	Thanks for the replies I've heard a lot of good ideas particularly as most are not singling out the PC. Though the one issue I should speak to. As one poster noted D&D is balanced for many encounters in a single day. This may be my problem. I generally don't do the prolonged dungeon crawl or any in the way of random wilderness encounters. It's not atypical to have only two or three full on combats in a session as the group leans to problem-solving/Role-playing with only a side order of hack and slash. So thus now that they're reaching higher levels I'll need to alter some adventure structure as the psion has demonstrated. But otherwise the illusion ideas, pincer tactics were all great and I'll certainly make use of them. Thanks. Also, you didn't say whether you count psionics and magic as the same or different but antimagic/psionic fields will really make them sweat. You know the old cliche'd "Ceiling with spikes slowly lowering into a stone room" trap? It gets a lot more tense when there's an antimagic field preventing 95% of the easy solutions.
The_Ditto 05-23-07, 02:02 PM	Psion 5th level = 35 pp (25-base + 10-ability ) 6th level = 47 pp (35 + 12 ) 6 pp = 6d6+6 Energy bolt we'll say he could do that 8 times. (giving him 48 pp total ...) Ok, let's compare to a sorcerer (since you said you wouldn't have a problem with a sorcerer): Sorcerer 6th level = 3(+1)x level 3 5(+1)x level 2 6(+1)x level 1 6x level 0 Sorcerer can dish out in 8 rounds: 4x 6d6 lightning bolt 4x 3d8 scorch (spell compendium) Psion average damage total: ((3.5 * 6) + 6) * 8 = 216 Sorcerer average damage total: (3.5 * 6) * 4 = 84 + (4.5 * 3) * 4 = 84 + 54 = 138 Yes, the psion has dished about more damage ... The sorcerer would need to throw his last two level 2 spells plus a couple level 1 spells to catch up ... Of course ... the psion has no PP left and is a glorified commoner .. and even after the sorcerer "catches up" .. he still has a few level 1 spells and cantrips left ... :tiphat: If you're not worried about the sorcerer, I wouldn't worry about the psion .. Yes, they can "dump" damage faster ... Yes, they can also turn themselves into commoners faster than the sorcerer or wizard too ... I wouldn't be *too* concerned about it ... that's just the balance of the PP system ... Yep, it's different ... Nope, it's not overpowered/broken/whatever ... Yeah, you may have to alter *some* tactics *sometimes* ;) Btw: total average damage for the sorcerer (using only area effect spells): 4x lightning bolt (6d6) = 84 6x scorch (3d8) = 81 7x burning hands (5d4) = 87.5 total: 252.5 damage ... Psion: 216 .. and I still didn't touch cantrips ... :tiphat: