Psionic as well as magical items? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionic as well as magical items? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mirannan
08-23-07, 06:36 AM I am assuming transparency is not in force.

Magic items have to be masterwork. So do psionic ones; although they often have crystals as part of their makeup they don't have to.

So what about items that are both? Imagine a +2 magic sword with keen as a special enhancement - and say a psion has obtained it and wants to put the enhancement on it that makes each strike one against touch AC (can't remember the name - no books handy! - but I think it's deep impact).

I assume that it would have to be enhanced psionically to at least +1. First question - do the basic bonuses stack? Second question - does the cost go up for the psionic enhancement as if starting from scratch or as if it has an equivalent number of psionic levels to the magical ones? Third question - is there an independent number of equivalent levels (+10) for each type of empowerment, or do they add up - can you have a +5 magic +2 psi vorpal deep impact sword, for example?

And of course, the most important question; can it be done at all? Is a magic item incapable of being psionically enhanced (and vice versa) because they are fundamentally incompatible in some way?

One problem, of course, is that this may make it possible to make epic-equivalent items for much less cash.
glacialcat
08-23-07, 07:09 AM These are the kind of questions that only the DM can answer when he tries to run a game that isn't transparent, and is one of the reasons I highly recommend transparency. It makes things just plain easier.

But I'll answer the things I can answer. First off, there is no such Psionic weapon enchantment of which you speak. Deep Impact is a feat, which allows you to expend your psionic focus to have your next attack strike against Touch AC rather than normal AC. There is no similar weapon enhancement.

Now the only other question I can really answer without actually being your DM, is would the +1 magic and +1 psionic bonuses stack. No, they would not. Because no matter the source the +1 bonus is a +1 enhancement bonus. Not a +1 magic enhancement bonus or a +1 psionic enhancement bonus, so they would not stack unless your DM wanted them to.

Honestly... just play with transparency. It makes things so much easier. And it doesn't really make more sense for psionics and magic to be separate, if divine magic isn't separate from arcane magic in these sort of things.
DM Zoc
08-23-07, 07:23 AM I agree with the previous poster on all points.

In addition, as long as you are going along with the crazy "non-transparency" choice (which can easily be campaign-appropriate for many worlds), you could still create an epic-scale weapon at cheaper prices.

Instead of paying for a +1 flaming/shocking/frost/psychokinetic/collision weapon (effectively a +7 under transparency, costing 98K), you only have to pay for a +1 flaming/shocking/frost (32K)and a +1 psychokinetic/collision (also 32K).

Of course, that's still a great discount, which the system is not designed to deal with. On the other hand, if you're using an optional rule like non-transparency, then the DM is obviously comfortable with house ruling things.
Fafnir
08-23-07, 07:27 AM Nontransparency is hell.

As far as I know, you need only some sort of +1 or more to get special abilities, and they should total together to at most +10. Not doing so would create a heavy imbalance.

So you could have a +2 Vorpal (Magic)/Collision (Psionic) Axe, which would be a strong magical, moderate psionic, +9 equivalent weapon.

I can't say about enhancement bonuses, but common sense and simplicity (which are pretty scarce in D&D as it is :D ) would count them as stacking.
SlanderPanic
08-23-07, 05:20 PM I do it the way Fafnir does. You can weave dweomers and psionic auras together to create a combination weapon. An enhancement bonus is an enhancement bonus and a psion with Craft Psionic Arms And Armor can upgrade the bonus of a weapon originally enchanted by a wizard or a cleric. Likewise, if you want a +2 flaming, holy, suppression greataxe, you can go for it.

That said, a weapon with a continuous Deep Impact property would be almost as broken as one with a continuous true strike property. If you're going for that sort of thing, there's always brilliant energy.
Lathi
08-25-07, 03:53 AM If you're absolutely shackled to non-transparancy, and the GM won't allow multiple-source items, there's always the option of using equivalent spells or powers. Most of the psionic enchantments require powers that are more or less Psionic X or are at least close enough for government work. In the instances where there are no equivalents, you could ask your GM to create one, or work with the idea that some combos just aren't going to be possible with your gameworld's metaphysics.
BloodSpill
08-26-07, 12:58 AM I am assuming transparency is not in force.

Did someone forget to tell you that it is, by default?
Mirannan
08-27-07, 01:55 PM Did someone forget to tell you that it is, by default?

In my DM's world it isn't. <shrug>

I am the only guy who has ever played a psion in the campaign; in fact I am handicapping myself even further, some might say, by using 3.0 - although inertial armour as a feat is handy, and so are the zero-level free powers.

There are very few psions in the campaign. Bad, because if I want anything psionic I am going to have to make it myself - good, because very few opponents know what the feck I am doing until it's too late.

The character is only 5th level at present, but it's quite fun - so far.

By the way, I was using deep impact as a weapon power out of (obviously faulty) memory.
Lycanthromancer
08-27-07, 03:29 PM 3.0?!

You...you...you...

*Headsplode*
kyeudo
08-27-07, 05:49 PM Someone used cranial deluge on Lycanthromancer :D
CrimsonDeath
08-27-07, 06:26 PM Someone used cranial deluge on Lycanthromancer :D
Anyone can do that as an (Ex). It's called "Invoke 3.0 Psionics".
Vharuck
08-27-07, 10:26 PM Funny thing about the pricing guidelines is that they come with the stipulation that they are the last resort, to be used after comparison to preexisting items. In other words, if it acts exactly the same as "item X" it costs exactly the same as "item X." It doesn't matter how you end up with it, it's worth that much.

This is done for balance reasons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mirannan 08-23-07, 06:36 AM	I am assuming transparency is not in force. Magic items have to be masterwork. So do psionic ones; although they often have crystals as part of their makeup they don't have to. So what about items that are both? Imagine a +2 magic sword with keen as a special enhancement - and say a psion has obtained it and wants to put the enhancement on it that makes each strike one against touch AC (can't remember the name - no books handy! - but I think it's deep impact). I assume that it would have to be enhanced psionically to at least +1. First question - do the basic bonuses stack? Second question - does the cost go up for the psionic enhancement as if starting from scratch or as if it has an equivalent number of psionic levels to the magical ones? Third question - is there an independent number of equivalent levels (+10) for each type of empowerment, or do they add up - can you have a +5 magic +2 psi vorpal deep impact sword, for example? And of course, the most important question; can it be done at all? Is a magic item incapable of being psionically enhanced (and vice versa) because they are fundamentally incompatible in some way? One problem, of course, is that this may make it possible to make epic-equivalent items for much less cash.
glacialcat 08-23-07, 07:09 AM	These are the kind of questions that only the DM can answer when he tries to run a game that isn't transparent, and is one of the reasons I highly recommend transparency. It makes things just plain easier. But I'll answer the things I can answer. First off, there is no such Psionic weapon enchantment of which you speak. Deep Impact is a feat, which allows you to expend your psionic focus to have your next attack strike against Touch AC rather than normal AC. There is no similar weapon enhancement. Now the only other question I can really answer without actually being your DM, is would the +1 magic and +1 psionic bonuses stack. No, they would not. Because no matter the source the +1 bonus is a +1 enhancement bonus. Not a +1 magic enhancement bonus or a +1 psionic enhancement bonus, so they would not stack unless your DM wanted them to. Honestly... just play with transparency. It makes things so much easier. And it doesn't really make more sense for psionics and magic to be separate, if divine magic isn't separate from arcane magic in these sort of things.
DM Zoc 08-23-07, 07:23 AM	I agree with the previous poster on all points. In addition, as long as you are going along with the crazy "non-transparency" choice (which can easily be campaign-appropriate for many worlds), you could still create an epic-scale weapon at cheaper prices. Instead of paying for a +1 flaming/shocking/frost/psychokinetic/collision weapon (effectively a +7 under transparency, costing 98K), you only have to pay for a +1 flaming/shocking/frost (32K)and a +1 psychokinetic/collision (also 32K). Of course, that's still a great discount, which the system is not designed to deal with. On the other hand, if you're using an optional rule like non-transparency, then the DM is obviously comfortable with house ruling things.
Fafnir 08-23-07, 07:27 AM	Nontransparency is hell. As far as I know, you need only some sort of +1 or more to get special abilities, and they should total together to at most +10. Not doing so would create a heavy imbalance. So you could have a +2 Vorpal (Magic)/Collision (Psionic) Axe, which would be a strong magical, moderate psionic, +9 equivalent weapon. I can't say about enhancement bonuses, but common sense and simplicity (which are pretty scarce in D&D as it is :D ) would count them as stacking.
SlanderPanic 08-23-07, 05:20 PM	I do it the way Fafnir does. You can weave dweomers and psionic auras together to create a combination weapon. An enhancement bonus is an enhancement bonus and a psion with Craft Psionic Arms And Armor can upgrade the bonus of a weapon originally enchanted by a wizard or a cleric. Likewise, if you want a +2 flaming, holy, suppression greataxe, you can go for it. That said, a weapon with a continuous Deep Impact property would be almost as broken as one with a continuous true strike property. If you're going for that sort of thing, there's always brilliant energy.
Lathi 08-25-07, 03:53 AM	If you're absolutely shackled to non-transparancy, and the GM won't allow multiple-source items, there's always the option of using equivalent spells or powers. Most of the psionic enchantments require powers that are more or less Psionic X or are at least close enough for government work. In the instances where there are no equivalents, you could ask your GM to create one, or work with the idea that some combos just aren't going to be possible with your gameworld's metaphysics.
BloodSpill 08-26-07, 12:58 AM	I am assuming transparency is not in force. Did someone forget to tell you that it is, by default?
Mirannan 08-27-07, 01:55 PM	Did someone forget to tell you that it is, by default? In my DM's world it isn't. <shrug> I am the only guy who has ever played a psion in the campaign; in fact I am handicapping myself even further, some might say, by using 3.0 - although inertial armour as a feat is handy, and so are the zero-level free powers. There are very few psions in the campaign. Bad, because if I want anything psionic I am going to have to make it myself - good, because very few opponents know what the feck I am doing until it's too late. The character is only 5th level at present, but it's quite fun - so far. By the way, I was using deep impact as a weapon power out of (obviously faulty) memory.
Lycanthromancer 08-27-07, 03:29 PM	3.0?! You...you...you... Headsplode
kyeudo 08-27-07, 05:49 PM	Someone used cranial deluge on Lycanthromancer :D
CrimsonDeath 08-27-07, 06:26 PM	Someone used cranial deluge on Lycanthromancer :D Anyone can do that as an (Ex). It's called "Invoke 3.0 Psionics".
Vharuck 08-27-07, 10:26 PM	Funny thing about the pricing guidelines is that they come with the stipulation that they are the last resort, to be used after comparison to preexisting items. In other words, if it acts exactly the same as "item X" it costs exactly the same as "item X." It doesn't matter how you end up with it, it's worth that much. This is done for balance reasons.