Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ck2001wendt 09-21-07, 06:40 PM	I'm going into Seer 12 and thinking about picking up Energy Resistance and Disintegrate. But I might swap either one for a good battlefield control power, since I enjoy those and we have no wizard. Suggestions? I have: Energy Wall, Time Hop, TK Maneuver I know about: Ectoplasmic Shambler
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-21-07, 10:21 PM	Disintegrate is a good bread-and-butter power, though it might not work as well against some creatures (anything with SR or a high touch AC). It also lets you make 10' deep holes, which does count as battlefield control. I haven't had much experience with energy wall or ectoplasmic shambler...
InkBlot 09-22-07, 12:05 AM	Intellect Fortress - you create a safety zone your allies can retreat to. Wall Of Ectoplasm - like energy wall, but solid and you don't have to concentrate on it. Bonus points for erecting a wall of ectoplasm behind an energy wall (or around a circular energy wall). Dimension Door - move yourself and your allies out of (or into) danger. Energy Push - push your foes right where you want them. Keep in mind that this power does not say it requires an attack roll. Psionic Grease - a creature is flat footed while balancing unless it has 5 ranks in balance. You can also use this to disarm foes. Manifest this on hills and under climbing creatures for extra fun. Entangling Ectoplasm - Spiderman, Spiderman, does whatever a spider can. Seriously, look up the entangled condition. You would wish that on your worst enemy. Control Light - unlike darkness, this power can actually cause total darkness. Concentration duration kind of hurts though. Psionic grease and entangling ectoplasm deserve special notice. These are bread and butter powers that remain useful through 20 levels. There are great battlefield control powers on the Shaper list, if you're willing to use a feat on Expanded Knowledge. The three best you could get right now are fabricate, ectoplasmic cocoon, and astral construct.
Slagger the Chuul 09-22-07, 01:03 AM	Ectoplasmic shambler is one of those powers that seems to work far better than it looks like it should at first glance, but it really has a lot going for it. The combination of automatic typeless damage, concealment, casting interruption, and mobility make it a very nice package. It doesn't move very fast, but since you can direct it as a free action, it mixes well with other tactics, and with the combination of effects, something about it will be useful in almost any situation.
unusualsuspect 09-22-07, 01:21 AM	Concerning Ectoplasmic Shambler, does it have a movement speed of 10, such that you can have it run 40 feet as a full round action (or move two 10 foot movements)? Does the initial shape of the Ectoplasmic Shambler have to stay the same, or can the 10 10' cubes be shifted around after the manifestation? What's the capital of Nebraska?
Novabomb 09-22-07, 01:25 AM	Lincoln
guesswhat12321 09-22-07, 02:04 AM	What's the capital of Nebraska? :rofl: where did that come from
Tiarn 09-22-07, 02:38 AM	... Energy Push - push your foes right where you want them. Keep in mind that this power does not say it requires an attack roll. ... Does it have to? I was pretty sure if the effect was a ray then it required at least a ranged touch attack if not a normal ranged attack. Ray Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at.
CrimsonDeath 09-22-07, 04:46 AM	Does it have to? I was pretty sure if the effect was a ray then it required at least a ranged touch attack if not a normal ranged attack. Ray Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at. It's the only Ray I've ever seen that doesn't reference an attack roll in the body of the power description. As for Disintegrate... I used it on occasion to breach walls I didn't want to try teleporting through.
hovnarr 09-22-07, 06:47 AM	Concerning Ectoplasmic Shambler, does it have a movement speed of 10, such that you can have it run 40 feet as a full round action (or move two 10 foot movements)? WHOA! I had never noticed this. It says: You can direct the shambler as a free action. It has a speed of 10 feet. It HAS A SPEED of 10 feet != you can move it a maximum of 10' each round. Like you say, you could have it move 40 feet since it doesn't have anything else to do with its turn.
Fafnir 09-22-07, 08:52 AM	It's not a creature though, so even the fact that it can take a double move is debatable.
hovnarr 09-22-07, 10:11 AM	Well, it's a pseudo-creature I suppose, from what can be infered from the description: You fashion an ephemeral, manylegged mass of pseudo-living ectoplasm called an ectoplasmic shambler.
unusualsuspect 09-22-07, 10:46 AM	:rofl: where did that come from It's from an old X-man comic, featuring Morph. I don't know why, but whenever I sound off a string of questions, I tend to end with "What is the capital of Nebraska?" The question of whether the ectoplasmic shambler's area (the 10' cubes it is made up from) can be changed after the power has been manifester is still up in the air, apparently?
Fafnir 09-22-07, 10:53 AM	The only limitation is: Effect: One ectoplasmic manifestation of a size equal to ten 10-ft. cubes (S) Which implies the shape can be changed as long as the volume is kept constant.
CrimsonDeath 09-22-07, 11:17 AM	The only limitation is: Which implies the shape can be changed as long as the volume is kept constant. I thought the "Shapeable" tag only meant you could arrange the cubes as you saw fit when you cast the spell/manifest the power, not that you could rearrange them however you like afterwards.
ck2001wendt 09-22-07, 11:18 AM	Can you go vertical with the Shambler? Nothing tends to freak DM's out more than going vertical with a power on a 2D grid, but it would be really useful to be able to create things you can't fly over. Intellect Fortress I have...I've used it once but it ablated a Cone of Cold and a Fireball and is very useful. Dimension Door I have...the negative augment is especially good. Wall Of Ectoplasm, and Entangling Ectoplasm sound interesting. I think TK Thrust (have it) is probably better than Energy Push...I've used it to thrust people 100 ft. in the air and drop them, which is 9d6 lethal + 1d6 non-lethal + a Trip. Entangled is evil...I've saw the effects from a Warlock with Entangling Blast (?) first-hand last week. Astral Construct I'm against because Summoning tends to slow down combat. I will be using Dominate when appropriate to get helpers, though. Something that I really want to try with Energy Wall is to put it in front of a closed door as enemies attempt to escape...50% miss chance on actually finding the knob, and you take damage every time you try.
InkBlot 09-22-07, 12:08 PM	I think TK Thrust (have it) is probably better than Energy Push...I've used it to thrust people 100 ft. in the air and drop them, which is 9d6 lethal + 1d6 non-lethal + a Trip. The only reason I suggest energy push over tk thrust is because energy push has an augmentable saving throw DC. TK thrust is stuck at 13 + Int, while at your level energy push could be augmented to a DC of 16 + Int. TK thrust seems better for throwing things at your enemies, than for throwing your enemies. However, it is very power point efficient. Since the distance, and thus the damage, is based on your level instead of augmentation you can get 20d6 damage for only 5 power points. The caveat is that your enemy is likely to save against it, and must be relatively light in order to be affected at all. Energy push is more reliable than TK thrust, while TK thrust has a bigger bang. As for the having to roll to hit thing, I was just throwing it out there, because it's the only thing that salvages energy push. Having an attack roll, a saving throw, and a strength check, then if all three go through you do subpar damage? That's seriously gimptastic. I don't think you have to roll to hit with energy push by RAW, and I don't think you should have to.
Slagger the Chuul 09-22-07, 01:24 PM	I thought the "Shapeable" tag only meant you could arrange the cubes as you saw fit when you cast the spell/manifest the power, not that you could rearrange them however you like afterwards. That's my understanding, although ectoplasmic shambler already has the unusual property of being mobile, which raises a few questions. It's not normally allowed, but it wouldn't be unreasonable, considering the nature of this power.
Tiarn 09-22-07, 11:55 PM	...As for the having to roll to hit thing, I was just throwing it out there, because it's the only thing that salvages energy push. Having an attack roll, a saving throw, and a strength check, then if all three go through you do subpar damage? That's seriously gimptastic. I don't think you have to roll to hit with energy push by RAW, and I don't think you should have to. I wasn't saying I disagree with the suboptimal power that is energy push, I'm just pretty sure since the effect is a ray it follows all the rules of a ray, one of which is that you have to roll to hit. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it just being a targeted effect (though then you couldn't use it against invisible creatures). Overall when someone is going to choose this power I suggest ego whip instead. By far a better 2nd level power. There's plenty of other energy spells for damage and later TK powers if you want to move someone. :D
CrimsonDeath 09-23-07, 02:47 AM	I wasn't saying I disagree with the suboptimal power that is energy push, I'm just pretty sure since the effect is a ray it follows all the rules of a ray, one of which is that you have to roll to hit. Is there another Ray power (or even a spell) that doesn't specifically mention an attack roll?
InkBlot 09-23-07, 12:44 PM	If there is, it's probably in the Spell Compendium. But it wouldn't mean much. It could be an editing error (energy push could be an editing error), or the writer could have assumed that all rays automatically require touch attacks. Even if the spell states that it doesn't require an attack roll, that would actually be reinforcing the idea that all rays require touch attacks (otherwise they wouldn't need to state that exception explicitly). I wasn't saying I disagree with the suboptimal power that is energy push I wasn't saying that you said you disagreed. I just wanted to clarify and expand upon my earlier statement, which was typed in haste.
ck2001wendt 09-23-07, 03:27 PM	Upon further review, I'm seriously thinking of taking Entangling Ectoplasm instead of Disintegrate. It's something that my Schismed mind could regularly manifest without being dependent on ML, it augments extremely well, Crystal Shard is a better Ranged Touch attack power, and Wall of Ectoplasm seems too weak comopared to Energy Wall (we went up against one Monday, and I destroyed it in one hit with a half-power Energy Missile). Thanks for the help.
InkBlot 09-23-07, 04:43 PM	At your ML (12) a wall of ectoplasm would be three inches thick, have 30 HP, hardness 5, and require a Str check DC 21 to break through. A fully augmented (12pp) sonic energy missle could break through it on average rolls. A CL 12 delayed blast fireball would only do 16 damage to it on average rolls, requiring two castings to burn through your wall. Fire, cold, and electricity damage applied to an object is halved and then reduced by hardness. Sonic and acid damage are not halved, and the psionic sonic powers ignore hardness (there is some debate about whether or not all sonic effects ignore hardness). Also keep in mind that each ten-foot-section of the wall has it's own hitpoints, and is attacked seperately. An energy missle could get two ten foot sections, due to the limitation in the distance between targets. An energy ball or fireball could of course get four ten foot sections. With ML 12 your wall is one hundred and twenty feet wide. It would take a lot of delayed blast fireballs to take out the entire thing. You can also form the wall of ectoplasm into a hemisphere over your enemies. You can trap them like a spider caught under a teacup. If all they have to blow the wall up with is AoE's then they'll be rather screwed. Also consider that even if the wall can't stop your enemy entirely, it can force them to funnel through a narrow breach. Have your rogue and your tank stand on either side of the breach and use their AoOs to make mince-meat out of anybody who runs through.
DracoPhoenix 09-24-07, 07:53 AM	What about using TK Force to "hold" the creatures armour? Yes they get a will save, but using it on a melee character should hopefully mean it's less than favourable. Even lifting it a few inches off the ground should be able to hold them at bay for either later, or the ranged attack. If you're crowd control is using an serious level of concentration powers, consider a psi-crystal w/ solicit psi-crystal. And chain power if applicable. (Probably isn't - too lazy to check)
Lycanthromancer 09-24-07, 09:35 AM	Nah. Chain Power can only be used with a single-target energy power. In other words, the only power it's useful for is weapon of energy.
InkBlot 09-24-07, 12:21 PM	Chain Power useful on a few other powers as well. Surprisingly many Psychic Warrior powers, matter agitation, and a couple lackluster Psion powers from Complete Psionic. In all these cases, it's not particularly useful for battlefield control. Chain Power only works on powers which targets a single creature/object, and deals acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage.
Lycanthromancer 09-24-07, 12:25 PM	And matter agitation fits into that category how? :D
InkBlot 09-24-07, 12:26 PM	It deals damage by igniting things. Fire. That's pyrokinesis, Kyle.
Jaid 09-24-07, 12:37 PM	It deals damage by igniting things. Fire. That's pyrokinesis, Kyle.sounds like an extremely reasonable house rule to make it work that way, but for some reason it doesn't =P there is no [fire] descriptor in the power's heading, and the power does not deal fire damage per the spell description (typeless damage, if you were wondering). though it is, like i said, a very obvious houserule to make it a fire power ;)
InkBlot 09-24-07, 12:59 PM	A power doesn't need the fire descriptor to be used with Chain Power, it only needs to deal fire damage. And matter agitation deals fire damage. 3rd and Subsequent Rounds: Wood ignites, metal scorches (1d4 points of damage for those holding metallic objects). Skin burns and hair ignites (1d6 points of damage), lead melts. As you can see, the power ignites and scorches. That's how it deals fire damage. Ignite = set on fire. It doesn't have to say "set on fire" because it's using a synonym for fire. If a power said it "freezes the target, dealing 1d6 points of damage" would you argue that it's not dealing cold damage?
Lycanthromancer 09-24-07, 01:02 PM	What if the target ignites in pustules?
hovnarr 09-26-07, 07:57 PM	If a power said it "freezes the target, dealing 1d6 points of damage" would you argue that it's not dealing cold damage? Absolutely. "1d6 points of _ damage" means untyped. Check every [element] spell/power in the SRD and notice how it also deals typed energy damage. When the descriptor is missing, so is the damage type. Matter Agitation causes heat by agitating molecules, which as a side effect causes heat - much like a psionic microwave. Outside [fire] damages in a much more complex way. It's easy to imagine that a creature resistant to fire by virtue of its skin structure etc, is still very much vulnerable to matter agitation from the inside.