Psionic Beguiler? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionic Beguiler? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DM_Dracophile
05-20-07, 10:12 PM It seems to me that this class is a perfect mesh to the feel of Psionics...but class adaptations aren't my strength.
Anyone else given this any thought?
calronmoonflower
05-20-07, 10:21 PM The telepath has most of it covered already. Maybe a prestige class that gives beguiler like class features would work.
DM_Dracophile
05-21-07, 12:03 AM Oh, I dunno. The Telepath doesn't come close to the Beguiler's skill list/points. That could be converted easily, as could the 'sneak attack' spell/power ability. The free sneaky metamagic feats could easily become similar metapsionic feats.
But what would be most challenging is converting the spell list, spell progression, etc.

Exchanging the spell list for the Telepathy Discipline list is easy...but hardly a fair equivalent. Maybe pulling a few from the Psychic Warrior list, or others could work...

Also, is there a power (or series of powers) which successfully create illusions?

Suggestions?
calronmoonflower
05-21-07, 01:23 AM Also, is there a power (or series of powers) which successfully create illusions?

Suggestions?

False Sensory Input can in limited fashion replicate the effects of illusions.

Also consider the Shadowmind prestige class. It only has 4 + Int Modifier skill points per level, but with a telepath using the Int for manifesting they should be able to make up for it.
InkBlot
05-21-07, 01:52 PM Compared to the Psion, the Beguiler has a better HD by one step, and better skills by two steps. The Beguiler also knows far greater number of spells than a Psion has powers.

In order to make a Psionic Beguiler, you'd have to start with an approximate existant base class and start dropping class features to exchange for the Beguiler's class features. The Ardent is the closest, in my opinion, to the beguiler. It already has a d6 HD and gets numerous wierd class features over many levels (mantle abilities). If you drop the Ardent's BAB one step, to match the Beguiler's 1/2 BAB, you could raise it's skills one step (to 4/level). If you give the ardent a more limited power list, then you cold raise it's skills another step (6/level). If you ditch the mantle abilities, which you would have to if you were ditching the mantles for a more limited power list, then you could give it some of the wierd class features of the Beguiler.

So, in summary;
The Brain Fuggler (Psychic Beguiler)

HD: d6
BAB: 1/2
Saves: Good Will
Skill Points: 6/level
Skill List: As Beguiler, except as noted here. Add Autohypnosis. Replace Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device with Knowledge (Psionics), Psicraft, and Use Psionic Device.

Powers: 2 at first level + 1 per additional level (21 total)
Max Power Level: 9
Power Points: As Ardent
Power List: I don't have the time to work this out right now. I suggest using the telepath list as a start, and adding a smattering (half as many as there are telepathy powers) of clairsentience and defensive powers.

Class Features:
Proficiencies: As Beguiler.

Armored Mage: The Brain Fuggler does not recieve this class feature.

Trapfinding: As Beguiler.

Cloaked Casting: Renamed Cloaked Manifestation. Effects power save DCs and power resistance.

Surprise Manifestation: Works with powers the same as with spells.

Advanced Learning: The Brain Fuggler does not recieve this class feature. Replace with Bonus Feat - Expanded Knowledge.

Silent Spell: The Brain Fuggler does not recieve this class feature.

Still Spell: The Brain Fuggler does not recieve this class feature.
InkBlot
05-21-07, 01:59 PM How could I forget! The Thoughtsinger (http://www.bossythecow.com/classes.htm), by Keith "Thirteen Minus One" Baker is a good match for the Beguiler. Technicaly, it's more of a psionic bard, but it does have lots of skill points and powers that mess with your mind.
DM_Dracophile
05-21-07, 06:32 PM The Thoughtsinger is a damned fine base for what we're looking at. The power list, IMO, doesn't really stack up to the potency of the Beguiler's spell list though. I'd have to give some thought to that. Clearly, it's balanced by some of the Thoughtsinger's 'broadcast' powers...but I dunno.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM_Dracophile 05-20-07, 10:12 PM	It seems to me that this class is a perfect mesh to the feel of Psionics...but class adaptations aren't my strength. Anyone else given this any thought?
calronmoonflower 05-20-07, 10:21 PM	The telepath has most of it covered already. Maybe a prestige class that gives beguiler like class features would work.
DM_Dracophile 05-21-07, 12:03 AM	Oh, I dunno. The Telepath doesn't come close to the Beguiler's skill list/points. That could be converted easily, as could the 'sneak attack' spell/power ability. The free sneaky metamagic feats could easily become similar metapsionic feats. But what would be most challenging is converting the spell list, spell progression, etc. Exchanging the spell list for the Telepathy Discipline list is easy...but hardly a fair equivalent. Maybe pulling a few from the Psychic Warrior list, or others could work... Also, is there a power (or series of powers) which successfully create illusions? Suggestions?
calronmoonflower 05-21-07, 01:23 AM	Also, is there a power (or series of powers) which successfully create illusions? Suggestions? False Sensory Input can in limited fashion replicate the effects of illusions. Also consider the Shadowmind prestige class. It only has 4 + Int Modifier skill points per level, but with a telepath using the Int for manifesting they should be able to make up for it.
InkBlot 05-21-07, 01:52 PM	Compared to the Psion, the Beguiler has a better HD by one step, and better skills by two steps. The Beguiler also knows far greater number of spells than a Psion has powers. In order to make a Psionic Beguiler, you'd have to start with an approximate existant base class and start dropping class features to exchange for the Beguiler's class features. The Ardent is the closest, in my opinion, to the beguiler. It already has a d6 HD and gets numerous wierd class features over many levels (mantle abilities). If you drop the Ardent's BAB one step, to match the Beguiler's 1/2 BAB, you could raise it's skills one step (to 4/level). If you give the ardent a more limited power list, then you cold raise it's skills another step (6/level). If you ditch the mantle abilities, which you would have to if you were ditching the mantles for a more limited power list, then you could give it some of the wierd class features of the Beguiler. So, in summary; The Brain Fuggler (Psychic Beguiler) HD: d6 BAB: 1/2 Saves: Good Will Skill Points: 6/level Skill List: As Beguiler, except as noted here. Add Autohypnosis. Replace Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device with Knowledge (Psionics), Psicraft, and Use Psionic Device. Powers: 2 at first level + 1 per additional level (21 total) Max Power Level: 9 Power Points: As Ardent Power List: I don't have the time to work this out right now. I suggest using the telepath list as a start, and adding a smattering (half as many as there are telepathy powers) of clairsentience and defensive powers. Class Features: Proficiencies: As Beguiler. Armored Mage: The Brain Fuggler does not recieve this class feature. Trapfinding: As Beguiler. Cloaked Casting: Renamed Cloaked Manifestation. Effects power save DCs and power resistance. Surprise Manifestation: Works with powers the same as with spells. Advanced Learning: The Brain Fuggler does not recieve this class feature. Replace with Bonus Feat - Expanded Knowledge. Silent Spell: The Brain Fuggler does not recieve this class feature. Still Spell: The Brain Fuggler does not recieve this class feature.
InkBlot 05-21-07, 01:59 PM	How could I forget! The Thoughtsinger (http://www.bossythecow.com/classes.htm), by Keith "Thirteen Minus One" Baker is a good match for the Beguiler. Technicaly, it's more of a psionic bard, but it does have lots of skill points and powers that mess with your mind.
DM_Dracophile 05-21-07, 06:32 PM	The Thoughtsinger is a damned fine base for what we're looking at. The power list, IMO, doesn't really stack up to the potency of the Beguiler's spell list though. I'd have to give some thought to that. Clearly, it's balanced by some of the Thoughtsinger's 'broadcast' powers...but I dunno.