Post/Author/DateTime	Post
calronmoonflower 11-22-07, 03:20 AM	Psionic Fist Psionic fists combine martial arts and psionic power into a deadly whole. Adventures: Most psionic fist see adventures as a way to test themselves. Each quest that they undertake is a reward in and of itself. It brings them rich experiences and drives them to new heights of power and understanding of themselves. Characteristics: Psionic fists are pugilists, choosing to fight without armor and often even without weapons. They unarmed strikes are as fierce as any warriors blade. Alignment: Most psionic fists are lawful, as discipline and self reflection lend easily to the way of the psionic fist. Those that learn from a temple tend more to wards neutrality and sometimes good, with evil ones being rogue. Chaotic psionics fists are rare, but not unheard of. Religion: Those that learn the way of the hidden fist from temples tend to follow the Deity (if any) or higher power that the temple is dedicated to. Those that learn the way of the hidden fist on their own have no religious tendencies. Background: Most psionics fists come from temples that are dedicated to the ways of the hidden fist. A few manage to find the path on their own or accidentally pick it up while studying more traditional martial arts, but as expected these individuals are rare. Races: It is hard to predict psionic ability among most races. Those that learn the way of the hidden fist tend to train in temples of naturally psionic races. Those that find this path on their own more often than not are humans. Other Classes: Psionics fist very wildly, but a few trends can be seen in their relation with other classes. They tend to get along well with psychic warriors as their paths are similar. They also tend toward rivalry with monks, as likely friendly as not. Spellcasters tend to put them off at first, but this is often do to a lack of understanding of what spellcasting really is. Role: Those that follow the way of the hidden fist are melee combatants. While they cannot compete in direct combat with more martial classes their psionic abilities make up the difference. GAME RULE INFORMATION Psionic fists have the following game rules statistics. Abilities: Strength in important to a psionic fist as they engage in combat frequently. Dexterity is also important as the do not wear armor. Wisdom is also important as it is the source of a psionics fists psychic energy. Hit Die: d8 CLASS SKILLS The psionic fist’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Psionic Devise (Cha). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) X 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. CLASS FEATURES All of the following are class features of the psionic fist. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Psionic fists are proficient with all simple weapons as well as the handaxe, kama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, and siangham. Psionic fists are not proficient with any armor or shields When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a psionic fist loses their AC bonus. Power Points/Day: A psionic fist’s ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points they have available. Their base daily allotment of power points is given on the table. In addition, they receive bonus power points per day if they have a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Power Points). Their race may also provide bonus power points per day, as may certain feats and items. A 1st-level psionic fist gains no power points for their class level, but they gain bonus power points (if entitled to any), and can manifest the single power they know with those power points. Powers Known: A psionic fist begins play knowing one psychic warrior power of your choice. Each time they achieve a new level, they unlock the knowledge of a new power. Choose the powers known from the psychic warrior power list. (Exception: The feats Expanded Knowledge and Epic Expanded Knowledge do allow a psionic fist to learn powers from the lists of other classes.) A psionic fist can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than their manifester level. The total number of powers a psionic fist can manifest in a day is limited only by their daily power points. A psionic fist simply knows their powers; they are ingrained in the mind. They do not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though they must get a good night’s sleep each day to regain all their spent power points. The Difficulty Class for saving throws against psionic fist’s powers is 10 + the power’s level + the psionic fist’s Wisdom modifier. Maximum Power Level Known: A psionic fist begins play with the ability to learn 1st-level powers. As they attain higher levels, they may gain the ability to master more complex powers. To learn or manifest a power, a psionic fist must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the power’s level. AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the their adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a psionic fist gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five psionic fist levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the psionic fist is flat-footed. They lose these bonuses when immobilized or helpless, when wearing any armor, when carrying a shield, or when carrying a medium or heavy load. Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a psionic fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A psionic fist’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a psionic fist may even make unarmed strikes with their hands full. A psionic fist's unarmed strikes deal full Strength damage, even if you're using a unarmed strike as an off-hand attack and does not take the standard -4 penalty for off-hand attacks. Thus, you are still perfectly able to Two-Weapon Fight with just your unarmed strikes. Usually a psionic fist’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but they can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on the attack roll. They have the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. A Psionic fist’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of powers and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons. A psionic fist also deals more damage with their unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on table below. Shockwave Strike (Su): At 2nd level and high a psionic fist can make unarmed attacks at a distance by synchronizing both their motion and the flow of psionic energy within their bodies. While psionicly focused you may make a ranged attack with you’re unarmed strike as a standard action. This attack has a range increment of 30 feet and you add your wisdom modifier to the attack roll rather than you dexterity modifier. You also add your wisdom modifier to the damage dealt. At 12th level and higher you may instead take a full-round action to use your shockwave strike to deal twice the damage on a successful attack. Flowing Fist Style (Ex): No matter how strong of a strike that you can perform it is worthless is you miss. Flowing this principle, the followers of the hidden fist have developed the Flowing Fist Style. When attacking with an unarmed strike, a psionic fist can choose to deal damage as if their psionic fist class level were lower. For every reduction in damage you gain a +1 bonus to your attack roll. You can lower your Unarmed Strike to the normal damage for your size. Medium Psionic Fist Base damage 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d6 2d8 2d10 Lowered to 1d3 - +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 1d6 - +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 1d8 - - +1 +2 +3 +4 1d10 - - - +1 +2 +3 2d6 - - - - +1 +2 2d8 - - - - - +1 2d10 - - - - - - Note: If you do not actually have a reduction of unarmed strike damage you do not gain the benefit of the deduction when using the Flowing Fist Style. Essence (Su): By spending 8 hours in concentration with a psionic item you can draw off the energy that was used to create it and store it in your own body. You gain the essence points equal to 1/4th the market price of that item and the item is destroyed beyond repair. You may use these essence points when using your Psionic Fist, Psionic Body, and psionic Empowerment class features. Each essence point spent takes of 2 gp and 1 xp from the cost to use those craft abilities. This reduction in cost can reduce to time needed to craft though these class features, but to no less than one day. You can use this class feature to drain either a single enhancement or enhancement equivalent ability from your Psionic Fist or Psionic Body You gain the standard essence bonus, but only for the price difference of the old bonus and the new bonus. The total essence reserve that you may have at once is equal to your psionic fist manifester level X 100. Psionic Fist (Ex): At 6th level the psionic fist learn the ability that is the name sake of their class. From this level on they can enhance the unarmed strike like a masterwork weapon and as if they had the Craft Psionic Arms and Armor feat. They must still follow all other rules for enhancing their unarmed strike, and cannot use this ability on other weapons. They can however still take the Craft Psionic Arms and Armor feat. Separate iterative attack chains that you gain from feats such as Two-Weapon Fight and Multi-Weapon Fighting can be enhanced with this ability, but each count as separate weapons. Psionic Body (Ex): At 8th level the psionic on they can enhance the body like a masterwork suit of armor and as if they had the Craft Psionic Arms and Armor feat. They must still follow all other rules for enhancing their body, and cannot use this ability on other suits of armor. They can however still take the Craft Psionic Arms and Armor feat. Psionic Empowerment (Ex): At 10th level you may enchant body your body slots as if you have Craft Universal Item to grant yourself the benefits of worn items. This cuts of the body slot from worn items so you cannot benefit from them unless you pay twice the normal cost when using psionic empowerment. Other than this Psionic Empowerment works like Craft Universal Item. You cannot use this ability to create normal universal items but you can still take the Craft Universal Item feat. Cognizant Containment (Su): At 14th level and higher a psionic fist gains the ability to store a number power points inside their body equal to their manifester level as if it was a cognizance crystal. At 18 level and higher you may also convert essence points into stored power points at a 10 essence to 1 power point ratio. This takes five minutes of mediation. The standard rules for not being able to use power points from more than one source still apply so you cannot use these stored power points and power points from your power point pool to manifest the same power. Timeless Body (Ex): Upon attaining 16th level, a psionic fist no longer takes penalties to their ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that they already have taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the psionic fist still dies of old age when her time is up. Psionic Self: At 20th level, a psionic fist becomes a psychic creature. They are forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the psionic fist's creature type was) for the purpose of powers and magical effects. Additionally, the psionic fist gains damage reduction 10/Dark Crystal Unlike other outsiders, the psionic fist can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type. Do to being an outsider a psionic fist gains darkvision to 60 feet and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and doesn't need to eat or sleep (but still needs to breath) though they can do so if they wish. You still must rest for 8 hours to regain your power points. Note: If you do not want to include dark crystal then replace the damage reduction with cold iron. LvL BaB Fort Ref Will US AC PP PK MPN Ess Special 1 +0 +0 +2 +2 1d6 +0 0 1 1st -- Unarmed Strike 2 +1 +0 +3 +3 1d6 +0 1 2 1st -- Shockwave Strike 3 +2 +1 +3 +3 1d6 +0 3 3 1st -- -- 4 +3 +1 +4 +4 1d8 +0 5 4 2nd -- Flowing Fist Style 5 +3 +1 +5 +4 1d8 +1 7 5 2nd -- -- 6 +4 +2 +5 +5 1d8 +1 11 6 2nd 600 Essence, Psionic Fist 7 +5 +2 +5 +5 1d8 +1 15 7 3rd 700 -- 8 +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 1d10 +1 19 8 3rd 800 Psionic Body 9 +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 1d10 +1 23 9 3rd 900 -- 10 +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 1d10 +2 27 10 4th 1000 Psionic Empowerment 11 +8/+4 +3 +7 +7 1d10 +2 35 11 4th 1100 -- 12 +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 2d6 +2 43 12 4th 1200 Shockwave Strike (Improved) 13 +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 2d6 +2 51 13 5th 1300 -- 14 +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 2d6 +2 59 14 5th 1400 Cognizant Containment 15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 2d6 +3 67 15 5th 1500 -- 16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 2d8 +3 79 16 6th 1600 Timeless Body 17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 2d8 +3 91 17 6th 1700 -- 18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 2d8 +3 103 18 6th 1800 Cognizant Containment (Essence Conversion) 19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 2d8 +3 115 19 6th 1900 -- 20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 2d10 +4 127 20 6th 2000 Psionic Self Legend US: Unarmed Strike AC: AC Bonus PP: Power Points/Day PK: Powers Known MPK: maximum Power Level Known ESS: Essence Point Limit EPIC PSIONIC FIST Hit Die: d8 Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Powers: The epic psionic fist manifester level is equal to their class level and they gain 1 knew power known at 22nd level and every even number level there after. After 20th level the psionic fists power points per day to not automatically increase. AC Bonus: the bonus to armor class that a psionic fist gains increases at 25th level to 5 plus their Wisdom modifier (if positive) and by another +1 even 5 level their after. Unarmed Strike: this class feature does not increase after 20th level. Flowing Fist Style: As your unarmed strike damage caps at level 20, the bonus you your base attack bonus from the Flowing Fist Style does not increase after 20th level. Psionic Fist: After 24th level you are treated as if you have Craft Epic psionic Armor and Armor when using the Psionic Fist class feature. Psionic Body: After 24th level you are also treated as if you have Craft Epic psionic Armor and Armor when using the Psionic Body class feature. Psionic Empowerment: After 24th level you are also treated as if you have Craft Epic Universal Item when using the Psionic Empowerment class feature. Bonus Feats: the epic psionic fist gains a bonus epic feat at 24th and every four level their after. Crystal, Dark: Dark crystal is black of obsidian, but reflects no light. A crystal of this type has a seemly unnatural affinity to psionic energy and usually is found is areas that have experienced prolonged seepage from the astral plane. It is also found in psionicly active planes. For most characters dark crystal weapons would seem no different from ordinary crystal weapons, but for a characters and creatures with the psionic subtype it can be something to be feared. When a character or creature with the psionic subtype is dealt damage by a dark crystal weapon they lose 1 power point and must make a will save equal to 10 + plus the damage dealt (only the base damage of the weapon contributes to the DC; additional damage from high strength or other sources do not increase the DC), or lose their psionic focus. Psionic enhancements to dark crystal are possible, but cost an extra 2,000 gp whenever they are enhanced. Any weapon made of dark crystal cost an extra 2,500 gp. Magical enchantments cost no extra. Armor could be theoretically be made of dark crystal, but as dark crystal is considered metallic druids cannot where it without giving up their spell casting abilities. Dark Crystal has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and a hardness of 10. [edit] Rewrote the Flowing Fist Style Added and alt. damage reduction at 20th [edit=2] Rewrote the Flowing Fist Style again to prevent cheese with the Tashlatora feat. [edit=3] Updated weapon proficiencies. Slight rewrite to unarmed strike Fixed psionic self and added more standard traits of being an outsider to the description. [edit=4] Added a chart for flowing fist style and changed race to size. [edit=5] Added the essence and psionic empowerment class features. [edit=6] I moved essence to 6th level. Added the shockwave strike and Cognizant Containment. Hopefully this will be the last major update.
vorpo 11-22-07, 11:26 PM	even for psionic classes, you'd get more peaches in the class forum than here...
calronmoonflower 11-23-07, 02:10 AM	It would most likely give more, but the likely hood of those on those boards knowing psionics well enough to peach it is less likely. Honestly I've posted classes their before and got NO replies for months. Also consider the time post and the day after. I expect that someone will eventually get to it.
InkBlot 11-23-07, 01:16 PM	With 4e around the corner, I think a lot of people have lost interest in new classes. They plan on playing the new edition when it comes out, and feel there isn't enough time left to play all these new homebrew 3.5 classes. I know acceptance of 4e is far from universal, but it's widespread enough - maybe the majority (WotC is betting it is). Also, people who would use these new homebrew classes are likely to be the kind of people who appreciate something just for it's new-ness. They're likely to be dissatisfied with existing 3.5 material. That's the recipe for a 4e early adopter. The impending 4th edition of Dungeons&Dragons seems to have sucked the life out of the Classes board. I, for one, welcome our new 4th Edition overlords. Edit: In regards to your class -- Flowing Fist is so much better than Flurry. I like it a lot. I just think the phrasing needs work. This is how I would do it: Flowing Fist Style (Ex): No matter how strong of a strike that you can perform it is worthless is you miss. Flowing this principle, the followers of the hidden fist have developed the Flowing Fist Style. When attacking with an unarmed strike, a psionic fist can choose to deal damage as if her psionic fist class level were lower. For every 4 effective levels she lowers herself, she gains a +1 bonus to her attack roll. An effectively 0th level Psionic Fist deals damage with her unarmed strike as normal for her race. I don't think you should be able to use Flowing Fist with touch-attack powers, since then you're not giving up anything in exchange for the bonus to hit. Touch-attack powers are easy to hit with anyway. If you're using an unarmed strike to deliver a touch attack power, then you're using an unarmed strike and Flowing Fist could apply. I don't think Flowing Fist should change your BAB. Base Attack Bonus is tied too closely to such a myriad of things, that changing it round-to-round would really muck up the game. I love the Psionic Fist and Psionic Body abilities. However, I think you should take out the line "Separate Illiterate attack chains that you gain from feats such as Two-Weapon Fight and Multi-Weapon Fighting can be enhanced with this ability, but each count as separate weapons." It doesn't make any sense. Your fist is still you're fist whether you're using Two Weapon Fighting, or Snap Kick, or whatever. It also simply isn't required for balance. The extra attacks are already payed for with the feats it took to get them. Anybody else who pays the XP, time, and money to make a magic weapon can do whatever she wants with it. Finally, the term is iterative attack. If you a Psionic Fist's fists to be magic only when she's making the iterative attacks granted from her BAB, then say that precisely. But then they won't be magic when she's making a standard action attack, using a martial maneuver, flurrying, or making an attack of opportunity. If you try to go the other way, and list what won't work instead of listing what will work, then the ability will turn out like a laundry list and still won't be able to cover everything (as new material is always being added to D&D). The only other nitpick I have is with the DR/Dark Crystal. You should give an alternative DR type that can be used in case the DM doesn't want to include dark crystal into her game.
calronmoonflower 11-23-07, 07:30 PM	Flowing Fist is so much better than Flurry. I like it a lot. I just think the phrasing needs work. This is how I would do it: I guess I'll change it to that. I love the Psionic Fist and Psionic Body abilities. However, I think you should take out the line "Separate Illiterate attack chains that you gain from feats such as Two-Weapon Fight and Multi-Weapon Fighting can be enhanced with this ability, but each count as separate weapons." It doesn't make any sense. Your fist is still you're fist whether you're using Two Weapon Fighting, or Snap Kick, or whatever. It also simply isn't required for balance. The extra attacks are already payed for with the feats it took to get them. Anybody else who pays the XP, time, and money to make a magic weapon can do whatever she wants with it. Finally, the term is iterative attack. If you a Psionic Fist's fists to be magic only when she's making the iterative attacks granted from her BAB, then say that precisely. But then they won't be magic when she's making a standard action attack, using a martial maneuver, flurrying, or making an attack of opportunity. If you try to go the other way, and list what won't work instead of listing what will work, then the ability will turn out like a laundry list and still won't be able to cover everything (as new material is always being added to D&D). Each attack chain counts as a separate weapon so they do not get 2-6 weapons for the price of 1. Normally a character that obtains those feats does not get to make them all with the same weapon, as the Unarmed Strike changes this, it my mind it needs to be reigned in. Think of it like double weapons. each side must be enhanced separately. The only other nitpick I have is with the DR/Dark Crystal. You should give an alternative DR type that can be used in case the DM doesn't want to include dark crystal into her game. I've used that damage reduction for other classes without complaints. If a dungeon master wants to change it cold iron would be the next logical choice. [edit] Flowing Fist is so much better than Flurry. I like it a lot. I just think the phrasing needs work. This is how I would do it: Flowing Fist Style (Ex): No matter how strong of a strike that you can perform it is worthless is you miss. Flowing this principle, the followers of the hidden fist have developed the Flowing Fist Style. When attacking with an unarmed strike, a psionic fist can choose to deal damage as if her psionic fist class level were lower. For every 4 effective levels she lowers herself, she gains a +1 bonus to her attack roll. An effectively 0th level Psionic Fist deals damage with her unarmed strike as normal for her race. I just remembered why I used such a weird wording. It prevents cheese with Tashalara. [edit=2] It seems now that you can choose to lower your Unarmed Strike damage as you go to improve your illiterate attacks! odd, but it should make up for the loss of extra attacks.
Salla 11-23-07, 08:14 PM	As a sidenote, I'd rename it, as there's both a Feat and an SRD class with the same name. :)
calronmoonflower 11-23-07, 08:52 PM	As a sidenote, I'd rename it, as there's both a Feat and an SRD class with the same name. :) I know that prestige class, this is basically an attempt at a base class version.
Meep222 11-24-07, 01:05 AM	I like the idea of the class, although the problem is that it's giving a lot of the benifit of the Monk and the PsyWar class as one (or, atleast you're getting a buffed up Fist of Zouken). Psionic Fist and Psionic Body, I really like, but there're ways around the whole not able to boost yer self with armour and weapons. I do agree with InkBlot about the extra line, as the way you've got it written it's a bit confusing, for example, Unarmed Strike: A psionic fist’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a psionic fist may even make unarmed strikes with their hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a psionic fist striking unarmed. Than, Psionic Fist (Ex): Separate Illiterate attack chains that you gain from feats such as Two-Weapon Fight and Multi-Weapon Fighting can be enhanced with this ability, but each count as separate weapons. So, can you take Two-Weapon Fighting and then exceed the normal number of attacks, as normal with monks, but you'd have to enchant your 'weapons' seperatly? How would you be able to differintiate between the attacks if you're able to strike with litterally any part of your body? Would you have to enchant you elbow, knee, fist, other elbow, other knee, and other fist? The other thing I'm wondering, is if the DR you're giving it is too powerful, it's likly to be an extreamly rare form of material, even if you switch it to DR/Cold Iron it's still a very rare material for people to carry around even if you're expecting something to have it. The monk's damage reduction is actually really good for aquired DR, even if it is only DR/magic (at 20th level how many things're you gonna fight that don't have magic weapons in some fashion?), and this is several times better... so yeah?
calronmoonflower 11-24-07, 01:53 AM	if it didn't separate the extra attack chains from Two-Weapon Fighting and Multi-Weapon Fighter is would allow the possibility of abuse. Some times logic is sacrificed for balance. A counter argument would be, if these are not separate weapons, how would you gain extra attacks from them. You cannot wield a greatsword and get the extra attacks from them, so the Unarmed Strike is benefiting from a rules loophole. As more the damage reduction argument, Damage Reduction: Magic generally sucks at high levels. Any intelligent foe that you would face at that level will be wielding magic weapons, and some that are not. As for the other ways for monks to make up for the lack of magic weapons and armor, I'd like to hear one that doesn't involve huge amounts of gold.
Meep222 11-24-07, 02:14 AM	As more the damage reduction argument, Damage Reduction: Magic generally sucks at high levels. Any intelligent foe that you would face at that level will be wielding magic weapons, and some that are not. Yeah, it sucks, but there aren't many classes that grant DR, and even those that do, are usually fairly weak, i.e. Magic and Adamantine, the two most common, and most easily peirced DR's, sometimes even weaker than the damage type DR's. As for the other ways for monks to make up for the lack of magic weapons and armor, I'd like to hear one that doesn't involve huge amounts of gold. There aren't really, but standard magic items are fairly easily gotten without having to use huge amounts of gold (156k for Bracers of Armor +8 w/+5 non-enhancement bonuses).You can enchant gauntlets and use your weapons as normal, or enchant Gloves of Dex (technically). Superior Magic Fang as cast by a 20th level caster with permanancy is only something like 1500 (I did the math once, it was fairly cheap).
calronmoonflower 11-24-07, 02:44 AM	[snip] There aren't really, but standard magic items are fairly easily gotten without having to use huge amounts of gold (156k for Bracers of Armor +8 w/+5 non-enhancement bonuses). You cannot add those to Bracers of Armor anymore. It when out with 3rd edition when Bracers of Armor gave you a flat +4 armor bonus. It is a wondrous object so you cannot add bonuses with Craft Magical Arms and Armor. You can enchant gauntlets and use your weapons as normal, For 1d3 damage. You would be using a weapon instead of your Unarmed Strike. or enchant Gloves of Dex (technically). Not a weapon. Superior Magic Fang as cast by a 20th level caster with permanancy is only something like 1500 (I did the math once, it was fairly cheap). 1. You must know or find a 20th level caster willing to do so. 2. Do not forget the Xp cost. Multiply that by 5 and add it to the cost, unless you get a party member add the Permanency. 3. It can be dispelled.
Tectorman 03-01-08, 12:03 PM	Hi, spent a while looking this over and now I can discuss it. Weapon Proficiency: They've got the same proficiencies as the Monk. The Monk gets to be proficient with certain Exotic Weapons that are comparatively weak, except he gets special effects with them because they're special monk weapons. The Psionic Fist gets no such additional uses. Also, technically Monks aren't proficient with their own unarmed strikes (and so neither are Psionic Fists). Suggestion: change their weapon proficiency to "All simple weapons". Armor Proficiency: As written, wearing armor or a shield or carrying a medium+ load interferes with the AC Bonus only. The Psionic Fist has a choice of either a Wis + 4 bonus to AC applicable nearly all the time, or potentially an Armor bonus of 13 (+5 fullplate) and a Shield bonus of 9 (+5 Tower Shield) except it wouldn't apply to touch attacks. As I see it, even if the Psionic Fist wouldn't want to go all the way up to proficiency with heavy armors and tower shields (of course he wouldn't, that's a whole 5 feats), there's still little incentive for the Psionic Fist not to use some armor and shields. Unarmed Strike: You're using the same phrasing for the Unarmed Strike that the Monk's description uses. Even though later you mention using them for TWF, there's enough confusion on the boards about "no offhand attacks" meaning you can't TWF with unarmed strikes to warrant a revision to that description. Suggestion: change "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a psionic fist striking unarmed. A psionic fist may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes." to "A psionic fist's unarmed strikes deal full Strength damage, even if you're using a unarmed strike as an off-hand attack. Thus, you are still perfectly able to Two-Weapon Fight with just your unarmed strikes." Flowing Fist Style: So say I'm a human Psionic Fist 3. The normal damage for my race is 1d3, but I can do a whole 1d6. Since I can lower my unarmed damage to the normal for my race, I can drop the damage and get a bonus to my attack rolls. But what about "If you do not actually have a reduction of unarmed strike damage you do not gain the benefit of the deduction when using the Flowing Fist Style."? Can I lower my damage or not? Was that phrase put in there just for the odd situation of a pixie or other really small race trying to lower a damage die of 1 (basically a 1d1) for a better attack roll? Psionic Fist: I can see your reasoning behind the iterative attacks. Something to note: on a double weapon, you have to pay for the weapon enhancements once for each side. You don't, however, have to pay twice for the weapon special qualities. I.e., if I pay for a +1 flaming quarterstaff, one end will have a magic enhancement of +1 and the flaming special weapon quality. The other side would not, because it has no enhancement bonus. If I later paid just the price of another +1 bonus for the other side, both sides would have a +1 enhancement bonus and the flaming quality. Psionic Self: You get darkvision out to 60 feet and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Sorry, but "Big whup." Sure, it's in keeping with the traits of an outsider but at level 20, who would care? Also, your type is now Outsider. No subtype. You can be raised from the dead like a Native Outsider, but you don't have that subtype. So no matter how many Rangers you face, not a one of them would have you as a Favored Enemy. No matter how many Bane Weapons they had, not a one of them could specifically target you. Suggestion: change it to Type Outsider, Subtype Native. Yeah, the Monk's description has the same flaw, but I think it's still a flaw. Unless you want the Psionic Fist to have Invulnerability to any type-specific effects. Other than all that, I really like it. Comparing it to the Psychic Warrior, I find that they're more or less equivalent. Consider it sigged.
calronmoonflower 03-01-08, 04:39 PM	Hi, spent a while looking this over and now I can discuss it. Weapon Proficiency: Suggestion: change their weapon proficiency to "All simple weapons". I'll think of adding that. Armor Proficiency: It's the same wording as the monk's AC Bonus. Unarmed Strike: I'll think I'll do that. Flowing Fist Style: [snip] Can I lower my damage or not? Was that phrase put in there just for the odd situation of a pixie or other really small race trying to lower a damage die of 1 (basically a 1d1) for a better attack roll? Yes, you can normally lower the damage. I wrote it oddly because of the Tashlatora feat. With it you would have two identical unarmed stroke progressions and you could lower the psionic fists unarmed strike for the bonus and still deal full damage. Psionic Fist: Page 222 of the Dungeon Master's Guide says that magic double weapons have magical bonuses for each head. Psionic Self: It's just like the monk, but I included the racial abilities that you would get for being an outsider. In fact it looks like I missed a few monk references when cut and pasting from the SRD. Other than all that, I really like it. Comparing it to the Psychic Warrior, I find that they're more or less equivalent. Consider it sigged. Thanks.
Tectorman 03-01-08, 05:11 PM	Psionic Fist: Yeah, but that's just the enhancement bonus, not the effective enhancement bonus added by the special weapon quality. Put it another way: you pay for the Hideaway quality from RotW (it makes the weapon shrink down into a cylinder) on your quarterstaff. Would it only shrink down half the quarterstaff? Take the Unholy quality. Applied to only half the quarterstaff, does it do nothing to a Good character as long as he just touches the other end? Psionic Self: Actually, I was just thinking about that. I don't think this class should have that. In the case of the Monk, throughout his class, he's gaining abilities that make him more than the common human. He gets all good saves, resistance to enchantment, poison immunity, spell resistance, and so on. The Perfect Self at level 20 is just the next step of that. The way your class is now, we have a completely normal human with good saves and psychic powers; then, all of a sudden, he becomes an outsider. If you want to keep him like this, I'd recommend some kind of a progression. He gets Darkvision, an Outsider's immunities (not all at once, but staggered somehow), and then when he BAM! turns into an Outsider, people can see it coming. Also, could you expound on the Tashlatora feat a bit more? I'm still not getting it.
calronmoonflower 03-01-08, 06:37 PM	Psionic Fist: Read down further in the section on the table. It says that the weapon can have no special abilities despite what the main weapon has. Psionic Self: Those monk abilities suck and are something that other classes could pick up and don't really have anything to do with being an outsider. Darkvision at an earlier level would work I guess and the only base immunities that an outsider has is do to their type. Outsiders with other immunities are do to race, not type. I've seen the connection to psionics and being outsiders in other places. Untapped Potential even has a lich like ritual that causes you to become a incorporeal outsider. The monk itself lack a direct connection within the game rules, but is excepted because it always has been that way. Also, could you expound on the Tashlatora feat a bit more? I'm still not getting it. It makes a psionic class stack with monk for several abilities including the unarmed strike. You don't even have to be a monk to pick it up, but it doesn't really say what happens if you don't have monk levels.
Tectorman 03-04-08, 03:31 PM	Weapon Proficiencies: Yes, I like this change. Psionic Fist: Well, I'm not going to argue that here. That's more of an Equipment and Combat thing. Psionic Self: I suppose the two good saves and timeless body are enough to thematically justify a type transition. But he's still an Outsider (no subtype). Flowing Fist Style: May I suggest this rewrite? Because I'm still wondering about the whole "lower it to your race" deal (I'm a human and I gain it at 4th level, so my damage is 1d8, but my race's usual unarmed damage is 1d3. How many times am I lowering it? Once (1d8 to 1d3)? Twice (1d8 to 1d6 then 1d3)? Thrice (1d8, 1d6, 1d4, 1d3)?). Depending on which way it goes, you could get a bonus of +7 for a damage of 1d3. Since you get a total of 5 damage changes in the class (d6 to d8, d8 to d10, to 2d6, to 2d8, to 2d10) and since you're behind a full BAB class by 5 in terms of accuracy, I get the impression that you meant this ability to cap at +5 at 20th level for a 1d6 damage. Flowing Fist Style (Ex): No matter how strong of a strike that you can perform it is worthless is you miss. Flowing this principle, the followers of the hidden fist have developed the Flowing Fist Style. When attacking with an unarmed strike, a psionic fist of 4th level and higher can choose to deal damage as if their psionic fist class level were lower. You can lower your damage according to the chart below to gain the indicated bonus. Base damage 1d6 1d8 1d10 2d6 2d8 2d10 Lowered to 1d6 - +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 1d8 - - +1 +2 +3 +4 1d10 - - - +1 +2 +3 2d6 - - - - +1 +2 2d8 - - - - - +1 A 2d10 - - - - - - You can gain a maximum bonus of +1 at 4th level, +2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 16th, and +5 at 20th. (That last bit means that the ability is dependent on actual levels in the class, not just damage gained through feats like Tashalatora. The only reason the A is in the graph is because I couldn't figure out how to make that last line tab over without it.)
calronmoonflower 03-05-08, 02:30 AM	I'll think I port the chart over. As for the outsider change you wil get the augmented subtype.
Tectorman 03-07-08, 02:43 PM	Oops! I can't believe I didn't see this before. If you've already seen my recent post on the "Little Known Rules" thread, then you know what I'm about to post here. Otherwise, here I go. From the SRD Monk description (which is basically what you originally paraphrased): "Perfect Self At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type." The bolded parts imply that the Monk actually changes type and becomes an Outsider. It's those parts that I was looking at when I raised all the issues about what an Outsider gets for being an Outsider (darkvision, weapon proficiencies, etc.) The italicized part implies that no, the Monk does not actually become an Outsider. She does not change type; she is simply "treated as an outsider ... for the purpose of spells and magical effects." Now, I'll admit that this description is confusing, but if you look at it and focus on the part I italicized, then the sudden appearance of simple and martial weapon proficiency, the need for a subtype, all of that become less of an issue. Like I said, Whoops!
calronmoonflower 03-08-08, 02:24 PM	Also they would also have the psionic subtype. :P I've been thinking of adding two new class features to replace the bonus psionic feat progression. One would allow the gaining of craft points for use of class features that work like item creation and the other would work like Craft Universal Item, but forbid item stacking.
calronmoonflower 03-09-08, 06:49 PM	I added the essence and psionic empowerment class features.
Tectorman 03-10-08, 11:04 AM	You had the Psionic subtype since day one. Essence: This exists to help fund your specialized Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, right? It kind of has a "psionic leech" feel to it, but it makes sense. A Monk-like character needs to be able to do something with the armor he finds in his loot. It seems kind of restricted, though. Just Body and Fist (see below for my comments on Empowerment). What about surplus essence points? At high levels, I've spent the amount of money necessary for +10 armor and (for the sake of argument) 2 +10 weapons (say I went the TWF route). But I've got leftover essence. Does it just lie in wait for me to go epic? I think you should be able to channel the essence into other stuff. Repowering the destroyed magic items wouldn't work, but maybe continue the "leech" idea and be able to turn the essence points into power points (maybe limited to a cognizance crystal or something). Edit: Also, you get this ability at 2nd level, but can't do anything with it until 6th. Psionic Empowerment: :confused: I have no idea what this is supposed to do. Psionic Body. Your body can be enhanced like a suit of armor. Psionic Fist. Your hands can be enhanced like weapons. What's this supposed to do? Let you create any old Tattoo you want? Enhance your feet into Boots of Stomping? Permanently have a Third Eye of Concentration on your forehead? I think this is too much.
calronmoonflower 03-11-08, 02:51 AM	Well you do get essence before you can really use it, but you can stock up and use it later. It also allows you to change the enchantments for your psionic body and psionic fist. Psionic empowerment works like the normal worn psionic items, normally you can double the craft price for it not to take up a slot. Other than getting those items stolen it really doesn't have that much advantage over crafting and wearing your own items, well except for you can use essence to craft it. It also comes with a disadvantage. You cannot readily swap out effects. It can be done with essence, but it costs more than you get from it.
Tectorman 03-11-08, 03:31 PM	I don't think it's really necessary (the Empowerment thing). For a normal Monk (or basically anyone, including this class) to upgrade his unarmed strikes, he needs to buy an Amulet of Mighty Blows. That magic item only has prices for enhancement bonuses +1 to +5 so you can't really get much mileage out of putting in special weapon qualitys. Furthermore, it's more expensive since the AoMB will also work for natural weapons. Unfortunately, most unarmed strikers won't be using natural weapons so that extra gold is practically wasted. Ergo, Psionic Fist (the class feature, I mean) is necessary. For a normal Monk to gain an improved Armor Class, he needs to buy non-Armor (or Shield) bonuses. Since Armor special qualities are pretty much best suited to be applied to Armor, Psionic Body is also necessary. As far as I know, there aren't really any Wondrous/Universal Items that a Monk can't use due to his class abilities being disrupted, so I don't really see the point.
calronmoonflower 03-12-08, 02:58 AM	I don't think it's really necessary (the Empowerment thing). For a normal Monk (or basically anyone, including this class) to upgrade his unarmed strikes, he needs to buy an Amulet of Mighty Blows. Nice misprint ;) It is "Mighty Fists", but the item does blow. If you look in Savage Species you will find the Necklace of Natural Attacks that is way cheaper and allows special properties like flaming and such. You are able to craft you're own item rather than go to "Mage Mart" and buying them. Also it cannot be taken off, that's both an advantage and disadvantage. With the essence class feature it comes to the same price a selling other magic items and crafting your own, but without the Xp expenditure. Anyway I've given though to the essence to PP conversion idea and think I have come to a balanced way to do it. 5 minutes of mediation and a 10 essence to 1 PP conversion and a limit equal to your manifester level. With it working like a recognizance crystal. This should boost your PP per day without being too strong. I've also put though into moving the essence class feature off to 6th level when it could first be used, and allowing a ranged attack with an unarmed strike as a standard action at 2nd and boosting it to allow double damage as a full-round action later. This should allow for the complete elimination of the bonus psionic feat. I originally put them into there as I didn't have enough to round out the class without them.