Psionic Loremaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionic Loremaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thot
07-31-07, 11:47 AM Has anyone ever made a psionic version of the Loremaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/loremaster.htm), please ?
I've not been able to find any on those boards.

If none is available, I'll try to cook something fairly straight, but I may need some help avoiding the psionic X syndrome. Don't be surprised if I come back with more questions :)

Thanks,
Thot
SlanderPanic
07-31-07, 12:09 PM I don't see why one can't simply expand the existing class to be psionics-compatible. Flavorwise, it already works. The mechanical conversion is simple.

First, alter the requirements to include metapsionic feats and to require seven different Divination spells or Clairsentience powers, one of which must be 3rd level or lower.

Next, you alter the class skills list to give either Spellcraft or Psicraft and Use Magic Device or Use Psionic Device.

Then, you change the spellcasting entry to say "spellcasting or manifesting."

Finally, you alter Newfound Arcana and More Newfound Arcana to alternately give bonus power points per day (1 or 3).

Unless I've missed something, that's all there is to it.
InkBlot
07-31-07, 12:42 PM Don't forget to remove one manifesting level from the progression at 1st level. You wouldn't want to lower psionic prestige classes to the standard of arcane prestige classes, by creating a class that has only trivial entry requirements and doesn't take away anything in exchange for it's multitude of wonderful abilities.

Five levels of Loremaster gives you +5 levels of spellcasting, 20 skill points, 12.5 hit points, +1 will, +1 ref, +4 to will saves, a bonus feat of any kind, a weak bardic knowledge, an extra language, and two other bonus abilities (secrets).

Five levels of Wizard gives you +5 levels of spellcasting, 10 skill points, 12.5 hit points, +1 will, +1 ref, +4 to will saves, and a bonus metamagic/item creation feat.

You don't lose anything. And the entry requirements are absolutely trivial to anyone who isn't making a gish wizard, and some who are.
SlanderPanic
07-31-07, 01:19 PM What's good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say. If we're going to reduce the loremaster to 9/10 manifesting, let's do it for spellcasting, too.
Tealgorthian
07-31-07, 02:01 PM First, alter the requirements to include metapsionic feats and to require seven different Divination spells or Clairsentience powers, one of which must be 3rd level or lower.

I see a problem with this part.

Loremaster is targeted at Wizards. Them knowing 7 Divination spells is no big deal. but Psions have a limited list, much like Sorcs. I'd make it around 4 Clairsentience powers, one of which must be 3rd level or higher.
Thot
07-31-07, 02:36 PM 1) Obviously, it would be a 9/10 manifesting PrC. No question.

2) What do you think about the Psychic Knowledge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) ability ? Should I take it into account somehow in the Psionic Loremaster (PL) ? I'm leaning about granting a +2 insight bonus to the check if you already have it.

3) As for me, I'd set the requirements as :
Skills : Knowledge (any two) 10 ranks in each.
Feats : Any three metamagic or item creation feats, plus Skill Focus (Knowledge [any individual Knowledge skill]).
Spells : Able to cast seven different divination spells, one of which must be 3rd level or higher.
Skills : Knowledge (any two) 10 ranks in each.
Feats : Any three psionic, metapsionic or item creation feats, plus Skill Focus (Knowledge [any individual Knowledge skill]).
Powers : Able to cast four different clairsentience powers, one of which must be from the Seer power list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powerList.htm#seerClairsentienceDiscipli nePowers), or at least 3rd level

4) Skills, and all
Well, there, I'd wander on simplicity's sake, and merely port it all to Psionic, straight on.
The only difference would be that the spell-like abilities would become psi-like abilities.

So, how does it seem to you ?
InkBlot
07-31-07, 02:56 PM I'm glad you agree about 9/10 manifesting or casting.

Those requirements seem fine to me. Personally, I would make it "Able to manifest four different clairsentience powers, including sensetivity to psychic impressions."

SPI is a very cool, but seemingly underused, power. It also fits in with the flavor and theme of the class perfectly.
The_Shaman
07-31-07, 03:15 PM Given the prerequisites for loremasters, I would expect that with similar requierments, a psionic version can get away with 10/10 manifesting. Let's see, 4 to 5 powers of a certain discipline (more if you want to be mean), a skill focus feat, 3 metapsionic or psi item creation feats... That isn't exactly nothing. Besides, how many uber loremaster builds have you come upon? I dare say that it is not one of the frequently used mage PrCs.
CrimsonDeath
07-31-07, 04:09 PM I pretty much never see Loremaster on the CharOp board. On the few occasions I've seen it mentioned, it's someone asking for a good build, and the regulars' first response is typically something along the lines of, "Skill Focus: Knowledge (any)? Eww..."

Honestly, the only reason to take the class is flavor, not power. Bonus languages aren't a big deal; Speak Language is easy enough to buy ranks in, or the Tongues and Comprehend Languages spells can completely bypass the need to know languages at all. Most of the Secrets are arguably pretty sub-par class features. Applicable Knowledge (the bonus feat) is relatively nice, but you already burned a feat on Skill Focus: Knowledge (any), so that's pretty much a wash.
Oregwath
08-01-07, 12:49 PM I had a Divination specialised wizard/loremaster that made the party sit down and do nothing for one whole week. At the end of that week, we knew who the BBEG was, what his weakness was, where to find that weakness, how to sneak in to his fortress without being caught, and that the BBEG prefered boxers over breifs....

Not overpowered for a hack and slash campaign, but that dm will think twice before allowing it again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thot 07-31-07, 11:47 AM	Has anyone ever made a psionic version of the Loremaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/loremaster.htm), please ? I've not been able to find any on those boards. If none is available, I'll try to cook something fairly straight, but I may need some help avoiding the psionic X syndrome. Don't be surprised if I come back with more questions :) Thanks, Thot
SlanderPanic 07-31-07, 12:09 PM	I don't see why one can't simply expand the existing class to be psionics-compatible. Flavorwise, it already works. The mechanical conversion is simple. First, alter the requirements to include metapsionic feats and to require seven different Divination spells or Clairsentience powers, one of which must be 3rd level or lower. Next, you alter the class skills list to give either Spellcraft or Psicraft and Use Magic Device or Use Psionic Device. Then, you change the spellcasting entry to say "spellcasting or manifesting." Finally, you alter Newfound Arcana and More Newfound Arcana to alternately give bonus power points per day (1 or 3). Unless I've missed something, that's all there is to it.
InkBlot 07-31-07, 12:42 PM	Don't forget to remove one manifesting level from the progression at 1st level. You wouldn't want to lower psionic prestige classes to the standard of arcane prestige classes, by creating a class that has only trivial entry requirements and doesn't take away anything in exchange for it's multitude of wonderful abilities. Five levels of Loremaster gives you +5 levels of spellcasting, 20 skill points, 12.5 hit points, +1 will, +1 ref, +4 to will saves, a bonus feat of any kind, a weak bardic knowledge, an extra language, and two other bonus abilities (secrets). Five levels of Wizard gives you +5 levels of spellcasting, 10 skill points, 12.5 hit points, +1 will, +1 ref, +4 to will saves, and a bonus metamagic/item creation feat. You don't lose anything. And the entry requirements are absolutely trivial to anyone who isn't making a gish wizard, and some who are.
SlanderPanic 07-31-07, 01:19 PM	What's good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say. If we're going to reduce the loremaster to 9/10 manifesting, let's do it for spellcasting, too.
Tealgorthian 07-31-07, 02:01 PM	First, alter the requirements to include metapsionic feats and to require seven different Divination spells or Clairsentience powers, one of which must be 3rd level or lower. I see a problem with this part. Loremaster is targeted at Wizards. Them knowing 7 Divination spells is no big deal. but Psions have a limited list, much like Sorcs. I'd make it around 4 Clairsentience powers, one of which must be 3rd level or higher.
Thot 07-31-07, 02:36 PM	1) Obviously, it would be a 9/10 manifesting PrC. No question. 2) What do you think about the Psychic Knowledge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) ability ? Should I take it into account somehow in the Psionic Loremaster (PL) ? I'm leaning about granting a +2 insight bonus to the check if you already have it. 3) As for me, I'd set the requirements as : Skills : Knowledge (any two) 10 ranks in each. Feats : Any three metamagic or item creation feats, plus Skill Focus (Knowledge [any individual Knowledge skill]). Spells : Able to cast seven different divination spells, one of which must be 3rd level or higher. Skills : Knowledge (any two) 10 ranks in each. Feats : Any three psionic, metapsionic or item creation feats, plus Skill Focus (Knowledge [any individual Knowledge skill]). Powers : Able to cast four different clairsentience powers, one of which must be from the Seer power list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powerList.htm#seerClairsentienceDiscipli nePowers), or at least 3rd level 4) Skills, and all Well, there, I'd wander on simplicity's sake, and merely port it all to Psionic, straight on. The only difference would be that the spell-like abilities would become psi-like abilities. So, how does it seem to you ?
InkBlot 07-31-07, 02:56 PM	I'm glad you agree about 9/10 manifesting or casting. Those requirements seem fine to me. Personally, I would make it "Able to manifest four different clairsentience powers, including sensetivity to psychic impressions." SPI is a very cool, but seemingly underused, power. It also fits in with the flavor and theme of the class perfectly.
The_Shaman 07-31-07, 03:15 PM	Given the prerequisites for loremasters, I would expect that with similar requierments, a psionic version can get away with 10/10 manifesting. Let's see, 4 to 5 powers of a certain discipline (more if you want to be mean), a skill focus feat, 3 metapsionic or psi item creation feats... That isn't exactly nothing. Besides, how many uber loremaster builds have you come upon? I dare say that it is not one of the frequently used mage PrCs.
CrimsonDeath 07-31-07, 04:09 PM	I pretty much never see Loremaster on the CharOp board. On the few occasions I've seen it mentioned, it's someone asking for a good build, and the regulars' first response is typically something along the lines of, "Skill Focus: Knowledge (any)? Eww..." Honestly, the only reason to take the class is flavor, not power. Bonus languages aren't a big deal; Speak Language is easy enough to buy ranks in, or the Tongues and Comprehend Languages spells can completely bypass the need to know languages at all. Most of the Secrets are arguably pretty sub-par class features. Applicable Knowledge (the bonus feat) is relatively nice, but you already burned a feat on Skill Focus: Knowledge (any), so that's pretty much a wash.
Oregwath 08-01-07, 12:49 PM	I had a Divination specialised wizard/loremaster that made the party sit down and do nothing for one whole week. At the end of that week, we knew who the BBEG was, what his weakness was, where to find that weakness, how to sneak in to his fortress without being caught, and that the BBEG prefered boxers over breifs.... Not overpowered for a hack and slash campaign, but that dm will think twice before allowing it again.