Post/Author/DateTime	Post
deadkoo 01-04-08, 01:58 PM	Ok, I have a few: 1.) Does dispel magic work on psionic spells/effects? And vica versa and dispel, psionics work on arcane/divine magic? 2.) PR/SR interchangable? ie PR 15 grants you SR15 v. arcane/divine? 3.) Metamind abilities(free casting 1st lvl powers 3/day for instance) those are the powers at the minimum PP cost right? For instance I can't use the free cast thing to manifest a Mind blast with an additional 10 PP into it boosting the damage can I? cheers
Lycanthromancer 01-04-08, 02:04 PM	1. Yes. Unless you're using the variant "Psionics Is Different" option (which you shouldn't be). 2. See #1. 3. Avoid the metamind like the prague. 'Scuse me, plague. Unless it's a variant metamind, the metamind sucks.
Tempest Stormwind 01-04-08, 02:16 PM	Ok, I have a few: 1.) Does dispel magic work on psionic spells/effects? And vica versa and dispel, psionics work on arcane/divine magic? 2.) PR/SR interchangable? ie PR 15 grants you SR15 v. arcane/divine? Yes. Don't even consider using nontransparency; it's nothing but a giant nonsensical headache. Arcane spells and divine prayers are already transparent to each other; why shouldn't psionics be as well? In fact, arcane magic and divine magic are MORE transparent to each other than psionics is even with transparency. Note that Dispel Psionics cannot be used to counterspell, and since Dispel Magic can, it can techncially "counterspell" a psionic power. This is the only way to technically do this, although usually you can force a Concentration check with a damaging power for a better effect. 3.) Metamind abilities(free casting 1st lvl powers 3/day for instance) those are the powers at the minimum PP cost right? For instance I can't use the free cast thing to manifest a Mind blast with an additional 10 PP into it boosting the damage can I? "This benefit applies only to the power point cost of an unaugmented power. Points spent to augment a power and an experience point cost (if any) must be paid as normal." That said, never go metamind. EVER. The analogy I've given in the past: If taking a prestige class is like getting a car, and taking a powerful prestige class like Incantrix is getting a Transformer... then taking metamind is like getting syphillis.
deadkoo 01-04-08, 02:20 PM	Alrighty thx!
The_Mess 01-04-08, 02:40 PM	My quick rundown of why the Metamind isn't much of a class: At level 20 (psion 10, metamind 10), you'll have the pp and powers known of a 15th level psion, so you'd be giving up ~160 pp (depending on your Int), one feat, and 8 high level powers known. In return, you get 11 not free pp from your psicrystal (you have to put them back in if you use them), a few free manifestations of low level powers, but you have to pay for the augment necessary to make them useful (equivalent to 33 pp), and infinite pp for 10 rounds (equivalent to 150 pp*). Grand total trade off, you give up one feat and 8 high level powers to lose ~160 easy-to-use pp to gain 194 pp that have restrictions on them. For a net "profit" of ~34 restricted pp. So I don't think many forumites will recommend Metamind. *You could get more out of Font of Power by using feats like Practiced Manifester or Overchannel, or by using powers or spells to give you extra actions, but it's not going to help that much.
Tempest Stormwind 01-04-08, 02:54 PM	My quick rundown of why the Metamind isn't much of a class: There was a more convincing one, actually. With my respect to DisposableHero: Kalashtar Psion 5 / Metamind 10, Psionic Talent x6, 25 Intelligence (18+3 from level, +4 headband) 88 base power points 15 racial 35 bonus 3 Free Manifesting 1 9 Free Manifesting 2 5 Free Manifesting 3 7 Free Manifesting 4 9 Free Manifesting 5 11 Cognizance Psicrystal 33 Feat from Psionic Talents ---------- 215 power points, plus Font of Power (ML 10, 1/day). Spent nearly all resources to accomplish this, requires an item, and 11 of those points don't recharge on their own. Half-Orc psion 15. 16 Intelligence (same starting 18, -2 Racial, no equipment). Yes, half-orc. 195 base power points 22 bonus power points ---------- 217 power points, ML 15. http://pics.livejournal.com/twoflower/pic/000266fg
deadkoo 01-04-08, 04:52 PM	before you guys get into a slinging match over this, I went metamind cause I am running a gestalt campaign. so I can take a psion lvl when the metamind doesn't give manifester lvls, and my other when it does... so I never miss out. thx for the info though
InkBlot 01-04-08, 08:01 PM	What classes are you gestalting?
deadkoo 01-05-08, 01:42 PM	psion(telepath)/paladin(with metamind) Running a witch hunter type of PC. Works quite well:)
InkBlot 01-05-08, 07:38 PM	Just a note; I use a + sign to separate two classes being gestalted, and I use a / sign to separate two classes being multiclassed normally. OK, let me get this right. You're going to go Psion + Pally, and then alternate levels of Metamind + Pally and Metamind + Psion? You'll end up with 15 Psion levels, 10 Metamind levels, 15 Paladin levels, and an ML of 20. Assuming 18 Int, you would have 343 base + 244 virtual power points. Not bad I guess. 200 of those virtual power points don't kick in until you get Font Of Power. I probably would have gone with Psion 20 + Pally 10/ Ardent 10, with something gishy for my mantles. More powers known, and more power points up until your build gets Font Of Power. Or perhaps Psion 20 + Pally 10/ Wilder 10, for Charisma synergy, and Wild Surge. I don't like to nova. Anyway, have fun. Happy gaming!
deadkoo 01-06-08, 12:16 PM	My DM ruled that if I went wilder with psion then I could only use the wilder PP for the lvl of wilder spells that I could cast... they wouldn't add to my total to use. Also, as the witchhunter I am running, I am less of a standback manifester and more of a front line fighter useing powers to back me up(psionic blast/burst astral constructs) and use my telepath powers out of combat... thx for the info though
Tempest Stormwind 01-06-08, 12:47 PM	My DM ruled that if I went wilder with psion then I could only use the wilder PP for the lvl of wilder spells that I could cast... they wouldn't add to my total to use. Then your DM is nerfing you even more than psionics generally are. The powers don't scale and your ML wouldn't increase if you took Wilder. Furthermore, Wild Surge explicitly works with any type of power (not just wilder ones) and the book clearly shows adding the power points together. This is not a broken ability -- multiclassing a manifesting class *does* cost you that much.
deadkoo 01-06-08, 06:18 PM	I know. But it isn't my campaign. I am happy enough to be playing a psion... I have only really found 2 DMs(not counting myself) that allow psions... I gotta take what I can get.
Tempest Stormwind 01-06-08, 06:58 PM	I know. But it isn't my campaign. I am happy enough to be playing a psion... I have only really found 2 DMs(not counting myself) that allow psions... I gotta take what I can get. Ask 'em why. If it's power reasons, direct 'em here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=331253). Those complaints have been thoroughly debunked. If it's unfamiliarity, their reason's a bit more legitimate, but you should still direct 'em here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=638776).
calronmoonflower 01-06-08, 08:15 PM	[snip] http://pics.livejournal.com/twoflower/pic/000266fg I'd put it this way. http://www.badongo.com/t/640/2631502.jpg (http://www.badongo.com/pic/2631502)
deadkoo 01-06-08, 10:40 PM	Nice. And I did ask him why, he told me that he felt that with 2 sets of classes giving me PP and 2 classes choosing powers, then most of the weakness' of the psion would be moot(like the low number of powers known, how only certain types of manifesters can learn some powers, and PP total and so on). I said no prob, I can gonna be a witch hunter in this demonically based campaign... thx for the back up though:P