Psionic Sorc. PEACH. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionic Sorc. PEACH. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Oblivionsfate
08-23-07, 09:20 PM I was reading the XPH is overpowered myth 2 page and something caught my eye. It said that instead of comparing Psions to Sorc. you should compare them to wizards. I completely agree with that. But then I though that Wilder must be the Sorc. equivilent and I relized they aren't. So I decided to make a Psionic Sorc. And here it is:

hit dice: d4

Saves: Fort=bad, Ref=bad, Will=good

Class skills: Bluff, Concetration, Craft, Knowledge (Psionic), Profession, and Psicraft
Skills at fist level: (2+int mod.)x4
Skills per lvl: 2 + int mod.

BAB poor(wizard)

Powers know: one per level. Powers are drawn from the Psion list.

Maxium Power lvl: same as wilder

Power points:
1 2
2 7
3 14
4 22
5 32
6 44
7 61
8 77
9 95
10 115
11 141
12 169
13 198
14 229
15 262
16 300
17 341
18 383
19 420
20 470

Bonus feat: At first lvl they gain Psycrystal Affinity as a bonus feat.

---------------

Now I know 470 seems like a lot of power points but I think that considering if you were to convert directly from the sorcers number of spells per day you would end up with 19 more per day that 470pp/day seems less powerful. However I find that the Psion seems balanced so would this varient class be over powered.
Jovknee
08-24-07, 03:56 AM Also one of the sorcerors better abilities is that to exchange lower level spells. Also what about weapon and armor profieciencies? I'd say simple and light.
munin
08-24-07, 09:41 AM So, compared to the psion, you're trading four bonus feats and access to a devotion's class skills and powers, for an extra 127 power points? Compared to a wilder, you're trading class features and class skills for 9 extra powers and 127 extra power points?

Honestly, I wouldn't take either. The common wisdom on this board is that after the first few levels, both the psion and wilder have enough power points for a typical day. I'd choose almost any psion over this.
rampant
08-24-07, 01:53 PM Honestly its boring. Psions and Psychic warriors are the most vanilla manifesters and even they get bonus feats. Lurks, Ardents, Wilders, and Warminds all have awesome special abilities. Before the soulknife fans nail me I don't consider them manifesters, because they don't manifest powers, its not a dig. Even the Erudite has a unique ability in that they can learn powers from anywhere.

Those extra power points just don't add enough zip, your psi-sorc has no flavor, no uniqueness.
Oblivionsfate
08-24-07, 07:41 PM What if you were to add the sorcorers Ablity to relearn spells or in this case Powers?

I figured it would be very bland but I was wondering weather you thought it was overpowered?
rampant
08-24-07, 10:42 PM Overpowered, no

Interesting, also no

The problem is the class doesn't stand out really, sure its got more PP than any other psi class, but it doesn't make use of that fact.

TURN ON THE BURN BABY!
Oblivionsfate
08-24-07, 11:19 PM Well how about changing the number of powers know to equall their will save.

Then add a few powers to their list that only they can access, that is with out Expanded knowledge. I was thinking some that have a more draconic feel to them. I see them as decendents of Gem dragons.

Here is a go at one.

Breath of the Crystal dragon
Psychokinesis
Level Physic Sorc. 5
Display: Visual
Manifesting time: Standard Action
Range:Close
Area: Cone shaped burst, centerd on manifester
Duration: Instantace
Save: see text
Power Point cost: 9

This power creates a cone of blinding light that deals 9d6 damage. A Reflex save for half damage. If you fail the reflex save then make a Fort. save, if a failure, target is also blinded for 1d6 rounds.

Augment:
For every aditional PP, the damage is increased by 1d6.
You can also spend 2pp extra to increase the Blindness duration fro another 1d6 rounds, this can only be done once.

The more Dragon themed powers this class had the beter. Probably should just give it its own list. Would that Give it more flavor?
rampant
08-24-07, 11:31 PM yes, but if that's the plan you might consider just expanding the diamond dragon PrC from dragon magic into a full class

You might want to consider giving these guys special abilities as swift and/or immediate actions, that they can burn PP for.
Tiarn
08-24-07, 11:42 PM I believe you're missing the point. At least from my standpoint it has less to do with the lack of class features and more to do with the lack of flavor.

Having a class that has more pp but fewer powers makes for an untinteresting class. There's just nothing to it that makes it unique.

And beyond that making it a "dragon-blooded" psion just reeks of "Psionic X" syndrome. By making the class get its power from some other thing (it's descended from dragons.... just.. like.. sorcerers...) you lose the introspection and inner power that somewhat defines psionics.

If you want to go with something that has a lot of power points and few powers you're going to need to give it some interesting things that would draw people to the class. And it's going to have to be more flavorful than "psionic sorcerer".

Take a look here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=879725). OneWinged4ngel has a very nice thread detailing class design that everyone should read.

:D
Oblivionsfate
08-24-07, 11:52 PM That does have some good reason as to this class shouldn't exsit. And I think I will go back to my drawing boards. On second thought get different drawing boards. Just got an Idea form several different areas for a class and you peeps are one of them but I will be back with it latter and I promise to have fluff so see you in a week or two.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Oblivionsfate 08-23-07, 09:20 PM	I was reading the XPH is overpowered myth 2 page and something caught my eye. It said that instead of comparing Psions to Sorc. you should compare them to wizards. I completely agree with that. But then I though that Wilder must be the Sorc. equivilent and I relized they aren't. So I decided to make a Psionic Sorc. And here it is: hit dice: d4 Saves: Fort=bad, Ref=bad, Will=good Class skills: Bluff, Concetration, Craft, Knowledge (Psionic), Profession, and Psicraft Skills at fist level: (2+int mod.)x4 Skills per lvl: 2 + int mod. BAB poor(wizard) Powers know: one per level. Powers are drawn from the Psion list. Maxium Power lvl: same as wilder Power points: 1 2 2 7 3 14 4 22 5 32 6 44 7 61 8 77 9 95 10 115 11 141 12 169 13 198 14 229 15 262 16 300 17 341 18 383 19 420 20 470 Bonus feat: At first lvl they gain Psycrystal Affinity as a bonus feat. --------------- Now I know 470 seems like a lot of power points but I think that considering if you were to convert directly from the sorcers number of spells per day you would end up with 19 more per day that 470pp/day seems less powerful. However I find that the Psion seems balanced so would this varient class be over powered.
Jovknee 08-24-07, 03:56 AM	Also one of the sorcerors better abilities is that to exchange lower level spells. Also what about weapon and armor profieciencies? I'd say simple and light.
munin 08-24-07, 09:41 AM	So, compared to the psion, you're trading four bonus feats and access to a devotion's class skills and powers, for an extra 127 power points? Compared to a wilder, you're trading class features and class skills for 9 extra powers and 127 extra power points? Honestly, I wouldn't take either. The common wisdom on this board is that after the first few levels, both the psion and wilder have enough power points for a typical day. I'd choose almost any psion over this.
rampant 08-24-07, 01:53 PM	Honestly its boring. Psions and Psychic warriors are the most vanilla manifesters and even they get bonus feats. Lurks, Ardents, Wilders, and Warminds all have awesome special abilities. Before the soulknife fans nail me I don't consider them manifesters, because they don't manifest powers, its not a dig. Even the Erudite has a unique ability in that they can learn powers from anywhere. Those extra power points just don't add enough zip, your psi-sorc has no flavor, no uniqueness.
Oblivionsfate 08-24-07, 07:41 PM	What if you were to add the sorcorers Ablity to relearn spells or in this case Powers? I figured it would be very bland but I was wondering weather you thought it was overpowered?
rampant 08-24-07, 10:42 PM	Overpowered, no Interesting, also no The problem is the class doesn't stand out really, sure its got more PP than any other psi class, but it doesn't make use of that fact. TURN ON THE BURN BABY!
Oblivionsfate 08-24-07, 11:19 PM	Well how about changing the number of powers know to equall their will save. Then add a few powers to their list that only they can access, that is with out Expanded knowledge. I was thinking some that have a more draconic feel to them. I see them as decendents of Gem dragons. Here is a go at one. Breath of the Crystal dragon Psychokinesis Level Physic Sorc. 5 Display: Visual Manifesting time: Standard Action Range:Close Area: Cone shaped burst, centerd on manifester Duration: Instantace Save: see text Power Point cost: 9 This power creates a cone of blinding light that deals 9d6 damage. A Reflex save for half damage. If you fail the reflex save then make a Fort. save, if a failure, target is also blinded for 1d6 rounds. Augment: For every aditional PP, the damage is increased by 1d6. You can also spend 2pp extra to increase the Blindness duration fro another 1d6 rounds, this can only be done once. The more Dragon themed powers this class had the beter. Probably should just give it its own list. Would that Give it more flavor?
rampant 08-24-07, 11:31 PM	yes, but if that's the plan you might consider just expanding the diamond dragon PrC from dragon magic into a full class You might want to consider giving these guys special abilities as swift and/or immediate actions, that they can burn PP for.
Tiarn 08-24-07, 11:42 PM	I believe you're missing the point. At least from my standpoint it has less to do with the lack of class features and more to do with the lack of flavor. Having a class that has more pp but fewer powers makes for an untinteresting class. There's just nothing to it that makes it unique. And beyond that making it a "dragon-blooded" psion just reeks of "Psionic X" syndrome. By making the class get its power from some other thing (it's descended from dragons.... just.. like.. sorcerers...) you lose the introspection and inner power that somewhat defines psionics. If you want to go with something that has a lot of power points and few powers you're going to need to give it some interesting things that would draw people to the class. And it's going to have to be more flavorful than "psionic sorcerer". Take a look here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=879725). OneWinged4ngel has a very nice thread detailing class design that everyone should read. :D
Oblivionsfate 08-24-07, 11:52 PM	That does have some good reason as to this class shouldn't exsit. And I think I will go back to my drawing boards. On second thought get different drawing boards. Just got an Idea form several different areas for a class and you peeps are one of them but I will be back with it latter and I promise to have fluff so see you in a week or two.