Psionic Undead? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionic Undead? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cerebrilith
03-02-07, 03:18 PM In my psionic- only world, would it be reasonable to say that undead are powered by some negative- psionic power? And if so, what powers would there be to create them?
myusernameis
03-02-07, 03:35 PM Just create alternate versions of the animate dead, create undead, and create greater undead spells. Substitute the expensive material components for an experience component equal to 1/5 the gp cost, inexpensive material components aren't worth worrying about. Though, personally, you may want to change the flavor of undead so they don't mess up the flavor of psionics.
JulesCARV
03-02-07, 03:53 PM Hmm... I think that incorporeal psionic undead make sense. I like Callers in the Darkness, for example.

I don't see corporeal undead as really making very much sense, though, unless they're undead who also happen, incidentally, to be psionic, like a cerebremancer lich, a vampire wilder, a mummy with ardent levels, etc.

It's just that none of the disciplines really are focused on doing the sorts of stuff that is associated with "animate dead" style necromancy. I mean, a kineticist might be able to use Control Body on a corpse (by RAW, maybe not, but it seems logical), moving it like a marionette, but that's a very short-term substitute for necromancy.
InkBlot
03-02-07, 04:26 PM Control object on a corpse.

Hmm... well you could change the undead type a little. Say that they're technically alive, but horribly mangled because they were brought back after it should have been too late. Then you can make a psychometabolism power for it.

Or you could say that undead happen when a particularly powerful mind (either fueled by understanding, intellect, or emotion), refuses to pass on. Some stay as pure minds (ghosts), but others try to inhabit their old bodies. They make their corpses move through sheer force of will (psychokinesis). Under this model, it would be difficult to imagine a psion creating undead and undead are no longer realy soulless.

Or you could keep the current flavor - corpses motivated by negative energy. Under this model, a psion could create undead by using psychokinesis to produce huge amounts negative energy. All the negative energy flowing through the psionicists's mind and body would drain him, resulting in XP loss.

No matter how you do it, psionicists who create undead would be rarer than necromancers are in a normal campaign. It just isn't as easy to do with psionics, and with psionics' inward-focus most undead should be self-actuated. At the moment of their death the sheer power of their grief and their latent psionic potential combined to cause a psychokinetic flood of negative energy.
widow
03-03-07, 01:30 AM Checkout the tainted minion ability of the subverted psion.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a

Create Minions: At 3rd level, you gain the ability to create and control tainted minions (see Heroes of Horror, page 153). The base creature's original Hit Dice or levels cannot exceed one half your total character level. The ritual to create a minion takes 10 minutes to perform and the transformation takes 24 hours to complete. Created minions advance normally, but if their Hit Dice ever exceeds half your total character level, they become free willed and attack you. Once you gain this ability, you can no longer have the Leadership feat. You lose the feat and any followers and cohorts. You can still have hirelings, though they will be of a seedy lot.

Following taint rules in heros of horror, undead and outsiders with the evil subtype have automatic taint and are immune to the ill effects. Easy access to the class for undead.

Then check out these links for easy ways to make psions undead:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030628b

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030628a

Dont forget to mix with the thrallherd PrC.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-03-07, 01:34 AM Yeah, since undead fall under the Knowledge (religion) category, I would say that psionics really doesn't have anything to do with them. Incarnum lets you make zombies, to a degree, and would be a good substitute in a non-Vancian world. If you use CPsi's rules on negative energy, it's perfectly acceptable to make a psionic animate. If you follow the XP/GP guidelines, that's 5 XP per Hit Die for animate dead and 10 for create undead, .
Angelflesh
03-03-07, 02:46 PM I think the idea of using psionics to animate undead is very reasonable. You could invent a new power that allows you to give a corpse a bit of sentience using your own psychic energy. Using this approach, we could have new versions of undead that differ from their traditional counterparts and not just "Psionic X." The reason i say they would be different is that the process in animating a corpse with psionics would be much different that with magic. The event would consequentially imbue the corpse with different abilities and have other side effects than with a usual magically created zombie etc.
starwed
03-04-07, 12:02 PM Mindless undead-analogues make some sort of sense; maybe not actually dead beings, but creatures whose minds have been blasted away and are under complete control by some sort of psychic power.

And of course incorporeal undead make perfect sense with psionics, as already mentioned. Psionic skeletons might be a bit harder to work in, though. ;)
Bacris
03-04-07, 12:15 PM And of course incorporeal undead make perfect sense with psionics, as already mentioned. Psionic skeletons might be a bit harder to work in, though. ;)

Not really - just flavor it similar to astral constructs.
myusernameis
03-04-07, 03:14 PM Could make a new discipline based around the manipulation of positive and negative energy, psionics can mess with other energy types, why not these two?
InkBlot
03-04-07, 07:47 PM If it's manipulating energy then it's psychokinesis. It doesn't matter if the energy is positive, negative, or fire.

The psionic disciplines aren't like the schools of spellcasting. Disciplines describe how an effect is achieved, not what the effect is.
cymbolik
03-05-07, 11:27 AM Actually, I think intelligent undead are very much within the realm of psionics, especially the world of the telepath.

A reworked mind seed could possibly provide enough of a neural spark to force a dead/decaying body to become animated, while possibly fusing or melting a psicrystal over the bones of a creature could be used to animate the skeletal remains.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cerebrilith 03-02-07, 03:18 PM	In my psionic- only world, would it be reasonable to say that undead are powered by some negative- psionic power? And if so, what powers would there be to create them?
myusernameis 03-02-07, 03:35 PM	Just create alternate versions of the animate dead, create undead, and create greater undead spells. Substitute the expensive material components for an experience component equal to 1/5 the gp cost, inexpensive material components aren't worth worrying about. Though, personally, you may want to change the flavor of undead so they don't mess up the flavor of psionics.
JulesCARV 03-02-07, 03:53 PM	Hmm... I think that incorporeal psionic undead make sense. I like Callers in the Darkness, for example. I don't see corporeal undead as really making very much sense, though, unless they're undead who also happen, incidentally, to be psionic, like a cerebremancer lich, a vampire wilder, a mummy with ardent levels, etc. It's just that none of the disciplines really are focused on doing the sorts of stuff that is associated with "animate dead" style necromancy. I mean, a kineticist might be able to use Control Body on a corpse (by RAW, maybe not, but it seems logical), moving it like a marionette, but that's a very short-term substitute for necromancy.
InkBlot 03-02-07, 04:26 PM	Control object on a corpse. Hmm... well you could change the undead type a little. Say that they're technically alive, but horribly mangled because they were brought back after it should have been too late. Then you can make a psychometabolism power for it. Or you could say that undead happen when a particularly powerful mind (either fueled by understanding, intellect, or emotion), refuses to pass on. Some stay as pure minds (ghosts), but others try to inhabit their old bodies. They make their corpses move through sheer force of will (psychokinesis). Under this model, it would be difficult to imagine a psion creating undead and undead are no longer realy soulless. Or you could keep the current flavor - corpses motivated by negative energy. Under this model, a psion could create undead by using psychokinesis to produce huge amounts negative energy. All the negative energy flowing through the psionicists's mind and body would drain him, resulting in XP loss. No matter how you do it, psionicists who create undead would be rarer than necromancers are in a normal campaign. It just isn't as easy to do with psionics, and with psionics' inward-focus most undead should be self-actuated. At the moment of their death the sheer power of their grief and their latent psionic potential combined to cause a psychokinetic flood of negative energy.
widow 03-03-07, 01:30 AM	Checkout the tainted minion ability of the subverted psion. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a Create Minions: At 3rd level, you gain the ability to create and control tainted minions (see Heroes of Horror, page 153). The base creature's original Hit Dice or levels cannot exceed one half your total character level. The ritual to create a minion takes 10 minutes to perform and the transformation takes 24 hours to complete. Created minions advance normally, but if their Hit Dice ever exceeds half your total character level, they become free willed and attack you. Once you gain this ability, you can no longer have the Leadership feat. You lose the feat and any followers and cohorts. You can still have hirelings, though they will be of a seedy lot. Following taint rules in heros of horror, undead and outsiders with the evil subtype have automatic taint and are immune to the ill effects. Easy access to the class for undead. Then check out these links for easy ways to make psions undead: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030628b http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030628a Dont forget to mix with the thrallherd PrC.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-03-07, 01:34 AM	Yeah, since undead fall under the Knowledge (religion) category, I would say that psionics really doesn't have anything to do with them. Incarnum lets you make zombies, to a degree, and would be a good substitute in a non-Vancian world. If you use CPsi's rules on negative energy, it's perfectly acceptable to make a psionic animate. If you follow the XP/GP guidelines, that's 5 XP per Hit Die for animate dead and 10 for create undead, .
Angelflesh 03-03-07, 02:46 PM	I think the idea of using psionics to animate undead is very reasonable. You could invent a new power that allows you to give a corpse a bit of sentience using your own psychic energy. Using this approach, we could have new versions of undead that differ from their traditional counterparts and not just "Psionic X." The reason i say they would be different is that the process in animating a corpse with psionics would be much different that with magic. The event would consequentially imbue the corpse with different abilities and have other side effects than with a usual magically created zombie etc.
starwed 03-04-07, 12:02 PM	Mindless undead-analogues make some sort of sense; maybe not actually dead beings, but creatures whose minds have been blasted away and are under complete control by some sort of psychic power. And of course incorporeal undead make perfect sense with psionics, as already mentioned. Psionic skeletons might be a bit harder to work in, though. ;)
Bacris 03-04-07, 12:15 PM	And of course incorporeal undead make perfect sense with psionics, as already mentioned. Psionic skeletons might be a bit harder to work in, though. ;) Not really - just flavor it similar to astral constructs.
myusernameis 03-04-07, 03:14 PM	Could make a new discipline based around the manipulation of positive and negative energy, psionics can mess with other energy types, why not these two?
InkBlot 03-04-07, 07:47 PM	If it's manipulating energy then it's psychokinesis. It doesn't matter if the energy is positive, negative, or fire. The psionic disciplines aren't like the schools of spellcasting. Disciplines describe how an effect is achieved, not what the effect is.
cymbolik 03-05-07, 11:27 AM	Actually, I think intelligent undead are very much within the realm of psionics, especially the world of the telepath. A reworked mind seed could possibly provide enough of a neural spark to force a dead/decaying body to become animated, while possibly fusing or melting a psicrystal over the bones of a creature could be used to animate the skeletal remains.