Psionics & archery questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionics & archery questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kaleran1277
08-22-07, 07:46 PM Hello!
Just a few questions...but first my reason for asking: I love archers/archery! That's the kind of pc I make whenever I am allowed.

Question 1: Do psychic warriors make good archers?
Question 2: Are there any archery-related psionic powers in the comlete psionic(only have expanded psionics)?
Question 3: If I took wild talent, that would be enough, by itself to let me take psionic(& greater) shot and so forth, or do I need a really need a psionic class for this?

Thank you.
Bacris
08-22-07, 07:57 PM Hello! Hi!

Question 1: Do psychic warriors make good archers? They make decent archers, although not great. Most of their powers are focused on melee.

Question 2: Are there any archery-related psionic powers in the comlete psionic(only have expanded psionics)? Off the top of my head, I don't remember any - at least not for the psywar.

Question 3: If I took wild talent, that would be enough, by itself to let me take psionic(& greater) shot and so forth, or do I need a really need a psionic class for this? Yup! All you need is a power point reserve - either from being a psionic race, having wild talent, or levels in a psionic class.

Thank you.
Welcome!
CrimsonDeath
08-22-07, 08:15 PM One archery feat that might help Psychic Warriors is Zen Archery, from Complete Warrior. It'll let them use Wisdom to hit instead of Dexterity (allowing them to dump Dex and wear heavy armor).
Tempest Stormwind
08-22-07, 08:37 PM There are a few powers for archers in Complete Psionic, such as Living Arrow and Perfect Archery. They're nice but few and far between.

I'm also surprised no one's mentioned the marksman. Normally I leave bringing up Untapped Potential to others, but still -- a full-base-attack, ranged-attack-focused psionic manifester might be up your alley, no?
InkBlot
08-22-07, 08:40 PM Question 1: Do psychic warriors make good archers?
They can, just as easily as a fighter can. Especially if you take Zen Archery, and the Psionic Shot line of feats.
Question 2: Are there any archery-related psionic powers in the comlete psionic(only have expanded psionics)?
Yes, there are. Many of the new Psychic Warrior powers are made for archers. There are powers which extend your range, enhance your arrows, and more. Also be sure to look closely at any power which targets a weapon. Many can be applied to ranged weapons (dissolving weapon is a great one).
Question 3: If I took wild talent, that would be enough, by itself to let me take psionic(& greater) shot and so forth, or do I need a really need a psionic class for this?
Wild Talent, or being a psionic race, is enough. You just need to be psionic and have at least one power point.
Kaleran1277
08-22-07, 08:52 PM There are a few powers for archers in Complete Psionic, such as Living Arrow and Perfect Archery. They're nice but few and far between.

I'm also surprised no one's mentioned the marksman. Normally I leave bringing up Untapped Potential to others, but still -- a full-base-attack, ranged-attack-focused psionic manifester might be up your alley, no?

Hello.

Thanks for the heads up on the psionic powers.

I've never heard of the 'marksman' before, & 'Untapped Potential' either? 3rd party book? Net Book? or something I just missed?

Thank you.
AdventChild
08-22-07, 09:11 PM Hello.

Thanks for the heads up on the psionic powers.

I've never heard of the 'marksman' before, & 'Untapped Potential' either? 3rd party book? Net Book? or something I just missed?

Thank you.

Yup, its a third party book he always keep mentioning (and the FAQ)
The_Shaman
08-22-07, 09:22 PM There are a few powers that can easily translate into ranged goodness, tbh. Offensive precognition/prescience, prevenom weapon, call weaponry (never be caught without arrows again), animal affinity, any of the dimension X powers, psi freedom of movement etc - all of these can be great for an archer... BTW, would vampiric weapon work with a bow?
Tempest Stormwind
08-22-07, 09:24 PM Yup, its a third party book he always keep mentioning (and the FAQ)

Hey, in my defense, I hardly ever mention it; it's most often brought up by others (and others not associated with DSP).

But yes, it's a 3rd party book. The marksman's designed to be to ranged combat what the psywar is to melee, except that there's a slightly larger focus on charged attacks rather than buffed attacks. There's also a few other differences (for instance, the marksman has only Defensive Precognition to improve his AC, but has other techniques that grant cover or concealment instead), but in general, you can think of it as the ranged psychic warrior with a dash of ranger.

While archery is perhaps the most powerful route they take (distance and number of attacks), they also work well with crossbows (as single-shot takedown characters) and thrown weapons (as battlefield controllers).
Deekin
08-22-07, 09:46 PM Didn't dreamscarred press just release a package deal of the Marksman, 3 Marksman PrCs, and some other options? That might be something the OP is interested in.

IMO, the marksman is a great class, no matter what style you select.
Bacris
08-22-07, 09:56 PM Deekin - yup. I tend to not post info about what we've released, as we've never really received a clear-cut response from Paradox on just is and isn't ok (and yes, we've asked...). I err on the side of caution :) About the only place I'll post what we've released is on the 3.5 Psionics Outside the XPH Index that DH maintains.

I'm probably being overly cautious, but *shrug*
sijigs
08-22-07, 10:15 PM Hm.. do Lurks come anywhere near being a decent archer/crossbow-er, I wonder?

Edit: GAahhh.. just had a quick skim and Augments only apply to melee??? That sketch of the Lurk with a crossbow is hella misleading!!!
InkBlot
08-22-07, 10:38 PM There's a feat that lets Lurks use their Lurk Augments at a range.

call weaponry (never be caught without arrows again)
If you just want the arrows, then the bolt power is superior.

But yes, every bow you call with call weaponry comes with a handful of arrows.

Technically, there's a problem holding on to those arrows while you use the bow. If you let go of them for more than two rounds then they vanish. Any good DM should let the arrows stick around long enough to all be used, but not all DMs are good DMs.
BTW, would vampiric weapon work with a bow?
I assume you mean vampiric blade. Yes. Yes it would. You could put it on your bow, and every time you shoot somebody you would heal yourself.
AdventChild
08-22-07, 11:58 PM Hey, in my defense, I hardly ever mention it; it's most often brought up by others (and others not associated with DSP).

I was just teasing you, we (my group) own most of the dreamscarred books, one of my players uses one of your variant soul knives.
AntiDjinn
08-23-07, 03:43 AM Psychic Warrior archery powers from Comp Psi (most available to others as well):

Ethereal Volley: PsW 2. Give up to 50 projectiles the ghost touch property for 10 min/level (or until used). Nice if you fight lots of noncorporeal foes, if not, not.

Inconstant Location: PsW 6. Not archery per se, but has ranged attacker written all over it. Being able to relocate once per turn as a swift action will keep people out of your face.

Living Arrow: PsW 5. Ignore cover (except for total cover such as a solid wall with no path to the subject) and concealment. Nice. Second augment is interesting.

Perfect Archery: PsW 2. Cost can add up (3 points and your swift action per round unless you pay for several rounds at once, in which case additional rounds cost 1 point each). It duplicates what was an epic feat in 3.0.

One XPH archery power not to be overlooked is Bolt. Not only does it create free ammunition (with enhancement bonuses, if you augment for it) it also covers its own tracks. The bolts or arrows vanish when the power expires. This means you can kill a target yet leave no physical arrow for that pesky Seer to trace to you with Object Reading. Not sure why it isn't a Psychic Warrior power. It really ought to be on the Lurk list as well.
Mirannan
08-23-07, 04:49 AM It's not exactly a feat, but three levels (I think) gives you a nifty ability. Take 2 levels (I think) in soulknife, enough to give you the throw mindblade ability - and then one more level makes you a soulbow (Complete Psionic). Arrows for free, forevermore, with no power cost! And of course you can't be disarmed. Even a null psionics field isn't certain to stop you.

I won't be using this idea myself. I'm having enough trouble keeping my 3.0 psion; I have an old-school DM who is unhappy about being able to make and buy magic items easily - we were playing 2nd ed for ages - and we also have one player who is a powergamer and would whine like a spoilt brat if he wasn't allowed to use rules from a non-core book while I was.

I have given, repeatedly, my opinion that the rules, including all the monsters, are based on being able to upgrade for money - but it looks as if it ain't going to happen.

I've also given up on the idea of psionic items turning up. If I want any I'll have to make them myself - without saying so, my DM seems to be using the "psionics are new" option. First feat will be Create Universal Item, and boots of catfall (non-standard but there is precedent and it's been pre-approved) will be the first one. There is a monk in the party who will love me for it. :) Cheap and easy to make, too - IIRC the boots cost more than the item creation.:rofl:
The_Shaman
08-23-07, 06:51 AM I'm getting the feeling that inconstant location is a great power for any psychic warrior. Melee-focused ones won't mind being able to do a full attack on any enemy in range, either... Hmm, and with a few elocator levels you can then move 10 feet back so that your enemies can't close and do a full attack themselves.

Sweeeeeet...

Good call on bolt btw, but I'm not sure if it's worth the price as it's not (why?) on the PW list.
InkBlot
08-23-07, 08:58 AM Sorry. I thought it was on the Psychic Warrior list. I can't imagine why it isn't, except maybe to make call weaponry seem better. I also didn't notice that call weaponry gives you 3d6 arrows, while bolt only gives you 2d4. Bolt gives you better arrows as a standard action, while call weaponry gives you more arrows (and a bow) as a full round action.

I don't think bolt is worth taking with Expanded Knowledge. There are so many archery feats out there already, and any one of them will give you a bonus at least equal to +1 hit/damage without spending pp. A sixth level human Psychic Warrior gets six feats; Zen Archery, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow), Manyshot, and you're done.
One XPH archery power not to be overlooked is Bolt. Not only does it create free ammunition (with enhancement bonuses, if you augment for it) it also covers its own tracks.
You don't have to augment for the enhancement bonus. Even unaugmented, it gives you +1 arrows. That's the nice thing about it.
Rageheart
08-23-07, 05:32 PM Another archery related boon is the 1st level Ranger spell "Arrow Mind" from Complete Adventurer

1. Do not provoke AoO when using the bow in melee.
2. Threaten AoO with your bow out to your normal reach.

...made into a use activated item (perhaps into the bow itself) it can be a lifesaver as soon as it's affordable.
4-armed kobold
08-25-07, 10:41 PM You might also want to consider the Soulbound Warrior feat from the Mind's Eye and take a composite longbow for the weapon. The weapon's enhancement bonus increases with the psychic warrior's level. By paying additional power points, you can alos select additional enhancement abilities on the fly, as the situation needs it. It has both its advantages and disadvantages over the soulknife/soulbow and standard archer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kaleran1277 08-22-07, 07:46 PM	Hello! Just a few questions...but first my reason for asking: I love archers/archery! That's the kind of pc I make whenever I am allowed. Question 1: Do psychic warriors make good archers? Question 2: Are there any archery-related psionic powers in the comlete psionic(only have expanded psionics)? Question 3: If I took wild talent, that would be enough, by itself to let me take psionic(& greater) shot and so forth, or do I need a really need a psionic class for this? Thank you.
Bacris 08-22-07, 07:57 PM	Hello! Hi! Question 1: Do psychic warriors make good archers? They make decent archers, although not great. Most of their powers are focused on melee. Question 2: Are there any archery-related psionic powers in the comlete psionic(only have expanded psionics)? Off the top of my head, I don't remember any - at least not for the psywar. Question 3: If I took wild talent, that would be enough, by itself to let me take psionic(& greater) shot and so forth, or do I need a really need a psionic class for this? Yup! All you need is a power point reserve - either from being a psionic race, having wild talent, or levels in a psionic class. Thank you. Welcome!
CrimsonDeath 08-22-07, 08:15 PM	One archery feat that might help Psychic Warriors is Zen Archery, from Complete Warrior. It'll let them use Wisdom to hit instead of Dexterity (allowing them to dump Dex and wear heavy armor).
Tempest Stormwind 08-22-07, 08:37 PM	There are a few powers for archers in Complete Psionic, such as Living Arrow and Perfect Archery. They're nice but few and far between. I'm also surprised no one's mentioned the marksman. Normally I leave bringing up Untapped Potential to others, but still -- a full-base-attack, ranged-attack-focused psionic manifester might be up your alley, no?
InkBlot 08-22-07, 08:40 PM	Question 1: Do psychic warriors make good archers? They can, just as easily as a fighter can. Especially if you take Zen Archery, and the Psionic Shot line of feats. Question 2: Are there any archery-related psionic powers in the comlete psionic(only have expanded psionics)? Yes, there are. Many of the new Psychic Warrior powers are made for archers. There are powers which extend your range, enhance your arrows, and more. Also be sure to look closely at any power which targets a weapon. Many can be applied to ranged weapons (dissolving weapon is a great one). Question 3: If I took wild talent, that would be enough, by itself to let me take psionic(& greater) shot and so forth, or do I need a really need a psionic class for this? Wild Talent, or being a psionic race, is enough. You just need to be psionic and have at least one power point.
Kaleran1277 08-22-07, 08:52 PM	There are a few powers for archers in Complete Psionic, such as Living Arrow and Perfect Archery. They're nice but few and far between. I'm also surprised no one's mentioned the marksman. Normally I leave bringing up Untapped Potential to others, but still -- a full-base-attack, ranged-attack-focused psionic manifester might be up your alley, no? Hello. Thanks for the heads up on the psionic powers. I've never heard of the 'marksman' before, & 'Untapped Potential' either? 3rd party book? Net Book? or something I just missed? Thank you.
AdventChild 08-22-07, 09:11 PM	Hello. Thanks for the heads up on the psionic powers. I've never heard of the 'marksman' before, & 'Untapped Potential' either? 3rd party book? Net Book? or something I just missed? Thank you. Yup, its a third party book he always keep mentioning (and the FAQ)
The_Shaman 08-22-07, 09:22 PM	There are a few powers that can easily translate into ranged goodness, tbh. Offensive precognition/prescience, prevenom weapon, call weaponry (never be caught without arrows again), animal affinity, any of the dimension X powers, psi freedom of movement etc - all of these can be great for an archer... BTW, would vampiric weapon work with a bow?
Tempest Stormwind 08-22-07, 09:24 PM	Yup, its a third party book he always keep mentioning (and the FAQ) Hey, in my defense, I hardly ever mention it; it's most often brought up by others (and others not associated with DSP). But yes, it's a 3rd party book. The marksman's designed to be to ranged combat what the psywar is to melee, except that there's a slightly larger focus on charged attacks rather than buffed attacks. There's also a few other differences (for instance, the marksman has only Defensive Precognition to improve his AC, but has other techniques that grant cover or concealment instead), but in general, you can think of it as the ranged psychic warrior with a dash of ranger. While archery is perhaps the most powerful route they take (distance and number of attacks), they also work well with crossbows (as single-shot takedown characters) and thrown weapons (as battlefield controllers).
Deekin 08-22-07, 09:46 PM	Didn't dreamscarred press just release a package deal of the Marksman, 3 Marksman PrCs, and some other options? That might be something the OP is interested in. IMO, the marksman is a great class, no matter what style you select.
Bacris 08-22-07, 09:56 PM	Deekin - yup. I tend to not post info about what we've released, as we've never really received a clear-cut response from Paradox on just is and isn't ok (and yes, we've asked...). I err on the side of caution :) About the only place I'll post what we've released is on the 3.5 Psionics Outside the XPH Index that DH maintains. I'm probably being overly cautious, but shrug
sijigs 08-22-07, 10:15 PM	Hm.. do Lurks come anywhere near being a decent archer/crossbow-er, I wonder? Edit: GAahhh.. just had a quick skim and Augments only apply to melee??? That sketch of the Lurk with a crossbow is hella misleading!!!
InkBlot 08-22-07, 10:38 PM	There's a feat that lets Lurks use their Lurk Augments at a range. call weaponry (never be caught without arrows again) If you just want the arrows, then the bolt power is superior. But yes, every bow you call with call weaponry comes with a handful of arrows. Technically, there's a problem holding on to those arrows while you use the bow. If you let go of them for more than two rounds then they vanish. Any good DM should let the arrows stick around long enough to all be used, but not all DMs are good DMs. BTW, would vampiric weapon work with a bow? I assume you mean vampiric blade. Yes. Yes it would. You could put it on your bow, and every time you shoot somebody you would heal yourself.
AdventChild 08-22-07, 11:58 PM	Hey, in my defense, I hardly ever mention it; it's most often brought up by others (and others not associated with DSP). I was just teasing you, we (my group) own most of the dreamscarred books, one of my players uses one of your variant soul knives.
AntiDjinn 08-23-07, 03:43 AM	Psychic Warrior archery powers from Comp Psi (most available to others as well): Ethereal Volley: PsW 2. Give up to 50 projectiles the ghost touch property for 10 min/level (or until used). Nice if you fight lots of noncorporeal foes, if not, not. Inconstant Location: PsW 6. Not archery per se, but has ranged attacker written all over it. Being able to relocate once per turn as a swift action will keep people out of your face. Living Arrow: PsW 5. Ignore cover (except for total cover such as a solid wall with no path to the subject) and concealment. Nice. Second augment is interesting. Perfect Archery: PsW 2. Cost can add up (3 points and your swift action per round unless you pay for several rounds at once, in which case additional rounds cost 1 point each). It duplicates what was an epic feat in 3.0. One XPH archery power not to be overlooked is Bolt. Not only does it create free ammunition (with enhancement bonuses, if you augment for it) it also covers its own tracks. The bolts or arrows vanish when the power expires. This means you can kill a target yet leave no physical arrow for that pesky Seer to trace to you with Object Reading. Not sure why it isn't a Psychic Warrior power. It really ought to be on the Lurk list as well.
Mirannan 08-23-07, 04:49 AM	It's not exactly a feat, but three levels (I think) gives you a nifty ability. Take 2 levels (I think) in soulknife, enough to give you the throw mindblade ability - and then one more level makes you a soulbow (Complete Psionic). Arrows for free, forevermore, with no power cost! And of course you can't be disarmed. Even a null psionics field isn't certain to stop you. I won't be using this idea myself. I'm having enough trouble keeping my 3.0 psion; I have an old-school DM who is unhappy about being able to make and buy magic items easily - we were playing 2nd ed for ages - and we also have one player who is a powergamer and would whine like a spoilt brat if he wasn't allowed to use rules from a non-core book while I was. I have given, repeatedly, my opinion that the rules, including all the monsters, are based on being able to upgrade for money - but it looks as if it ain't going to happen. I've also given up on the idea of psionic items turning up. If I want any I'll have to make them myself - without saying so, my DM seems to be using the "psionics are new" option. First feat will be Create Universal Item, and boots of catfall (non-standard but there is precedent and it's been pre-approved) will be the first one. There is a monk in the party who will love me for it. :) Cheap and easy to make, too - IIRC the boots cost more than the item creation.:rofl:
The_Shaman 08-23-07, 06:51 AM	I'm getting the feeling that inconstant location is a great power for any psychic warrior. Melee-focused ones won't mind being able to do a full attack on any enemy in range, either... Hmm, and with a few elocator levels you can then move 10 feet back so that your enemies can't close and do a full attack themselves. Sweeeeeet... Good call on bolt btw, but I'm not sure if it's worth the price as it's not (why?) on the PW list.
InkBlot 08-23-07, 08:58 AM	Sorry. I thought it was on the Psychic Warrior list. I can't imagine why it isn't, except maybe to make call weaponry seem better. I also didn't notice that call weaponry gives you 3d6 arrows, while bolt only gives you 2d4. Bolt gives you better arrows as a standard action, while call weaponry gives you more arrows (and a bow) as a full round action. I don't think bolt is worth taking with Expanded Knowledge. There are so many archery feats out there already, and any one of them will give you a bonus at least equal to +1 hit/damage without spending pp. A sixth level human Psychic Warrior gets six feats; Zen Archery, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow), Manyshot, and you're done. One XPH archery power not to be overlooked is Bolt. Not only does it create free ammunition (with enhancement bonuses, if you augment for it) it also covers its own tracks. You don't have to augment for the enhancement bonus. Even unaugmented, it gives you +1 arrows. That's the nice thing about it.
Rageheart 08-23-07, 05:32 PM	Another archery related boon is the 1st level Ranger spell "Arrow Mind" from Complete Adventurer 1. Do not provoke AoO when using the bow in melee. 2. Threaten AoO with your bow out to your normal reach. ...made into a use activated item (perhaps into the bow itself) it can be a lifesaver as soon as it's affordable.
4-armed kobold 08-25-07, 10:41 PM	You might also want to consider the Soulbound Warrior feat from the Mind's Eye and take a composite longbow for the weapon. The weapon's enhancement bonus increases with the psychic warrior's level. By paying additional power points, you can alos select additional enhancement abilities on the fly, as the situation needs it. It has both its advantages and disadvantages over the soulknife/soulbow and standard archer.