Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Artector 08-11-07, 05:49 PM	Been kicking around ideas for a world/campaign that is 90% sea/water, and wondered how one might make psionics unique in a world such as it is. So far I don't have a lot for it, but I plan on letting the players shape the world a fair bit. I do know that elves live in giant semi-sentient trees, and dwarves live on highly volcanic island chains. Between the two races there's plenty of reason for why boats exist (elves produce wood, and dwarves refine the metal.) Most other races live on isolated islands, and/or on boats that roam the ocean. Undersea races of course have their empires too. I think I might make some "evolved human" feats to give them gills, webbed feats etc... But I still can't think of any great twists for psionics. Anyone have something cool?
JulesCARV 08-11-07, 05:58 PM	Well... what role do aboleths play in this oceanic world?
Tempest Stormwind 08-11-07, 06:03 PM	Tie it to a particular crystalline mineral found in undersea caverns. Aquatic races are notoriously telepathic in fantasy; this could easily explain why. As magic developed on the surface or the subaquan races developed better means of adapting to the pressure shifts, trade between the peoples increased. Over time, these gems made their way throughout the world, and eventually awoke the powers of the mind. Once this power ended up in the hands of the ambitious humans, they advanced it leaps and bounds ahead of any of the undersea races' wildest dreams, but with potentially... dangerous side effects that showcase the humans' short-sightedness. (A simple example would be having a prevalence of lycanthropes -- mechanically, shifters -- appearing in later human generations, as the crystals reacted to moonlight (the moons control tides, and moonlight stirred dormant powers that the gems had bestowed upon man) and humans tapped into the deeper secrets of their primal heritage for psychometabolic effects. These lycanthropes would be indistinguishable from humans until they shift. Consider tying shifting to moonlight as well.) This allows for undersea psionic empires that use low-end psionics for nearly everything, psionic powers in all common races, human ambition and shortsightedness figuring in for adventure hooks, and a source for nonstandard races that are tied to the world. That's just off the top of my head, though. EDIT: I can't believe I forgot aboleths. Those could quite easily BE the undersea civilization. It casts them in a non-Lovecraftian light, which might be a breath of fresh, er, seawater for your players. (I keep having flashbacks to The Abyss here...)
Artector 08-11-07, 06:04 PM	Well... what role do aboleths play in this oceanic world? They'd make great villians. But I can always reverse them if I feel like it. But thank you for pointing out aboleths, I'm not 100% familiar with all the monsters out there. And very nice TS. The rapid changes possible undersea could cause the race to need to adapt quickly, hence things like you could mention. Not to mention gurgling gibberish to cast a fireball underwater has got to be a pain.
Asadeseth 08-11-07, 08:37 PM	Whate, why does it alwase have to be the Humans that are short sighted, why cant it be... say the elves that were the short sighted ones. :waits: But in such a material poor enviroment (well metals and such, easyer to mine on land than underwater) Shapers, expetualy ones who can permently make things would be in MAGOR demand. Also in such a world liveing objects/tools/symbotes may be in high use, those could easly be psionic. Heck you could put "biocrystals" in said objects to maintain their "bio-energy feilds" to help them function... and add flavor.
Jaid 08-11-07, 10:12 PM	Whate, why does it alwase have to be the Humans that are short sighted, why cant it be... say the elves that were the short sighted ones. :waits: But in such a material poor enviroment (well metals and such, easyer to mine on land than underwater) Shapers, expetualy ones who can permently make things would be in MAGOR demand. Also in such a world liveing objects/tools/symbotes may be in high use, those could easly be psionic. Heck you could put "biocrystals" in said objects to maintain their "bio-energy feilds" to help them function... and add flavor. don't be ridiculous... short-sighted elves belong in krynn =P (though krynnish elves are also snobbish, arrogant, isolationist, racist jerks as well, those traits are hardly restricted to *krynnish* elves... ) as far as resource poor, it's hard to say whether an underwater race would have a hard time mining underwater or not. i mean sure, it's hard for us, but we don't live and breathe underwater.
JoshuaZ 08-11-07, 11:25 PM	as far as resource poor, it's hard to say whether an underwater race would have a hard time mining underwater or not. i mean sure, it's hard for us, but we don't live and breathe underwater. Possibly putting too much thought into this, but it depends a lot on the local geology and how much pressure your underwater races can easily stand. If there is some sort of continental shelf, they shouldn't have much of an issue mining that. However, if the water is very deep, they'll have problems. One issue to consider is whether your planet has plate tectonics or not which will effect a lot of the geology and biology. Possibly going too far afield in geology, but without significant plate tectonics you're planet will eventually end up looking like Venus or Mars (i.e. you'll lose all the water in the very long run). If you have plates, then some areas will be much more shallow than others. One could imagine the shallow areas being well-explored and civilized and have most races (even the water races) not know much about what lies in the deeper parts. Now as to psionics in a water environment. They make sense in that once one is stuck with a water environment, communication is more difficult, so they could plausibly evolve. If one wants to keep the whole psionics/crystal flavor then one might want different types of crystal to be found at different volcanoes or undersea vents with different psionic properties. Some races might have crystals in their possession that amplify one discipline or make them more likely to be good at that discipline while others might have fewer. One could imagine extensive trade networks of mundane goods like iron and psionic goods like crystals, all of which are very expensive. I'd suggest considering adding slight XP costs to a few shaper powers that don't have them, otherwise shapers will become automatic kings in this universe. One final thought in regard to the semi-sentient trees for the elves. One might want different types, mangroves would make a lot of sense as one type for fairly obvious reasons.
Asadeseth 08-12-07, 01:06 AM	One thing to consider about underwater mineing is sedament, in the air it can be bad, underwater it would be 10 times worse. It would simply kill most of those who tryed it unless they completely didn't have to breath. Also the lack of vissability would be even worse than surface mines, plus take into acount that it takes Hrs not min for the dust to sental. Yes underwater races would have a heck of a time mineing. On top of that smelting becomes something of a slight problem, as dose finding the fuil for it. Granted pyros become EXTREAMLY usefull here, but still there more problems than just these. Liveing tools though, that might be easyer in a magical eviroment, but hey its a "magical enviorment" so who knows, and besides its Artector's world not mine.
Psionycx 08-12-07, 01:46 AM	Telepathy would obviously be very important and useful. Telepathic powers adapted to enhance communication/control of sea life could be very important. Perhaps in ancient times great terrestrial civilizations sank under the sea. They were able to survive for a time via magic, but the underwater environment made it difficult to obtain spell components. Plus spellcasting (especially verbal) was more challenging if one ended up in the ater unprepared. Psionics users might have been able to adapt faster to this new situation, not needing spell components or to speak to use their powers. While spellcasters were trying to catch up psionics users were able to quickly apply their powers and gain prominence in society. Alternatively, maybe magic was somehow responsible for the sinking and people actively rejected it thereafter and turned to psionics. Now, you could reverse the usual environmentals. Water-breathing humans, perhaps created through psionic modification of humans (and/or other races), who need to use some kind of power to survive in open air. This would create a social divide between them and land dwellers, as well as explain why they didn't just got to war to seize dwarven and elven islands.
Eldritch_Lord 08-12-07, 08:56 PM	Perhaps in ancient times great terrestrial civilizations sank under the sea....Alternatively, maybe magic was somehow responsible for the sinking and people actively rejected it thereafter and turned to psionics. Even better, something sank and both sides blame each other. The civilization had equal numbers of mages and psionicists, and no one knows which group sank the civilization. The mages on land say, well, obviously, the city sank, and psionicists are the ones who prefer/are better in/whatever the water, so they must have been at fault. The psionicists underwater say, well, obviously, the mages don't like water because they dislike/are weakened by/whatever the water, so they would be the ones keeping the cities out of the water, so a failure would obviously be their fault. No one on land uses psionics, and no one underwater uses magic, and the two groups have blamed each other ever since. What do you think?
calronmoonflower 08-12-07, 09:24 PM	Unearth Arcana has a ritual that can give creatures water breathing (+1 level adjustment for this campaign) and underwater versions of many player races including humans. I recall a The Mind's Eye article that had and underwater psionic creature, like and octopus variant of mermaids. Some The Mind's Eye psionics monster for underwater campaigns Devil Sail (Sea Nettle) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030523b) Titan Salamander and Dragon Newt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20030920a) Hammerfish (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030523d) Hamaguan (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030523c) The octopus one. Skum Renegade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030523e)
Asadeseth 08-12-07, 11:24 PM	One of the cool things about bio orented tools would be the that Egotist could then be forage masters of a sort, some social groups could use more Inorganic mats, like Dwarves, where as say elves use more liveing tools, and anouther group like Humans/halflings/gnomes may be more prone to sybotic iteams ect. This could help differentate cultures and add more flavor to your world. Heck what TYPE of organic mats they use and wether their fully organic or organic/inorganic hybrids would also make a load of difference flavor wise.
Sarlax 08-12-07, 11:38 PM	Without access to the kind of industrial civilizations that develop on continents, island races will end up lacking most of what they need to build. Underwater races, lacking fire, will find metalworking incredibly difficult. Enter the shaper, with his Creation powers to create goods on the go. Fabricate is even more important, particular for underwater races, since they can use it to manufacture metal goods without a forge.
Jaid 08-13-07, 12:27 AM	just had a thought... sonic powers would theoretically be really powerful underwater :mymy: not totally sure on the effects, but iirc water would transmit the waves more efficiently than air... possibly increase AOE or increased damage of some kind?
Dragoncat 08-13-07, 12:46 AM	For inspiration, look to marine ecology and geology. The bounties of the sea are many and varied, and much can be gleaned from them. For egoists, look to the cuttlefish, the octopus. Skin that changes color and texture, molding flesh through crevices, detaching and regenerating limbs, and even the ability to mimic other beings. Adaptable, flexible, mutable. Whalesong telepathy, tapping into the plankton to perceive things far away, growing coral armor, contorting the waves, multiplying pressure, and many, many other possibilities for flavor await. For the darker, more primordial side of psionics, consider going deep. Lurks and Psychic Warriors might draw their inspiration and power from the abyss, the creatures of the twilight realm at the bottom of the ocean, and all the horrors thereof. If you're going all-out underwater, though, you're going to have to get beyond little things like metallurgy. A submarine species is going to rely on completely different living conditions, materials, and methods for almost everything. For example, coral could be a major facet of architecture, most weaponry could be salvaged from various creatures, and transportation will rely upon sea currents. Some sea life is nomadic, moving between feeding grounds, nesting areas, and more mature hunting grounds. Would the civilization be the same? Also consider adding intelligent sea life that isn't simply humanoid, as our physique isn't exactly ideal in that element. Other things to look up, consider, and modify for inspiration, both monstrous and psionic. -Pistol Shrimp, the original kineticist -Mimic Octopus, the egoist mollusc -Anything from the deep, from the viperfish to glowing jellyfish -Anglerfish suggestions -Boxing crabs, who carry anemones for dueling -Cleaner fish, who provide parasite control service for other fish
Joni-san 08-13-07, 03:21 AM	Where does the Hermit Crab, the angry hobo of the sea, come in?
Dragoncat 08-13-07, 03:25 AM	Where does the Hermit Crab, the angry hobo of the sea, come in? He's a mindswitched erudite living in his psicrystal, of course.
Callix 08-13-07, 04:59 AM	Ah, the glories of the underwater campaign. I remember one I tried to brew up. Thought maybe I'd put a race that lived in the deeper waters, around the volcanic vents, and used the superheated waters as forges. Not metallurgically realistic, but good enough for me. Psionics, though, are a very handy addition to life underwater. A psion doesn't need to have hands that can perform fine gestures, so some sort of prehensile fin or flipper can work for holding stuff. A psion doesn't need to speak like a humanoid, so a dolphinesque or crustacean PC race can work. And a lot of a wizard's arsenal makes no sense underwater. Fly and Wind Wall, as two quick examples, are either useless or nonsensical. A few issues with energy attacks remain: 1. Fire attacks can only really be heat 2. Cold would freeze the water temporarily 3. Any acid effect would dilute to meaningless 4. Salt water conducts electricity...
Warforged Goblin 08-13-07, 08:37 AM	If you do not have it already, pick up the Stormwrack book, it is invaluable to an underwater campaign. It has the amphibious template (+0 LA that grants swim speed and water breathing at the expense of some Dex), water-based psionic powers and spells, rules for boats and variations on core races, a bunch of new feats for a sea-based campaign, and a decent amount of aquatic monsters. I think you'll find it very useful.
Artector 08-13-07, 09:28 AM	I if ever do get the campaign going (which is looking pretty likely) I'll give Stormwrack a good read-through for sure. Large crystal cities populated by psionic creatures does sound cool. They could live next to large vents and grow crystals for them and their cities using the natural minerals ejected from the vents. (I just made myself think of the Gungans.... scary) I think I will have psionics come from underwater primarily, magic can be something for the surface, something old. I like the way that sounds. I just hope one of my players wants to play soemthing psionic.
SlanderPanic 08-13-07, 10:00 AM	Maenads are described as being primarily a coastal/seafaring race. I figure the tranquility of oceanside living, broken up by the violent turmoil of big coastal storms, resonates with the maenad temperament.
Aeolius 08-13-07, 12:00 PM	I think I will have psionics come from underwater primarily, magic can be something for the surface, something old. I like the way that sounds. I just hope one of my players wants to play soemthing psionic. In my new undersea campaign I allow the use of psionics, incarnum, warlocks, and Tome of Magic, just to see what might transpire from the mix.
Artector 08-14-07, 09:22 PM	All right, went and looked at the underused Float power and realized that the power list marks it as augmentable, but the description doesn't have the augment. There's nothing in the errata, but considering it may be relevant in my campaign, I'd like to make it augmentable. So what augment should it be given? For every 2 power points spent your swim speed increases by 10 feet? For every 1 point? And to go a little farther... Perhaps additional augments, one to boost it to minutes/level and the hours/level.
Skindrill422 08-14-07, 09:33 PM	Stormwrack and the Unearthed Arcana are good books for water type races and stuff
Lycanthromancer 08-15-07, 12:34 PM	Given the importance of water in your world, perhaps you should bump it back up to a level 1 power, but... Float (A)* Psychoportation Level: Psion / wilder 0, psychic warrior 0 Display: Auditory Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round / level [D] Power Points: 0 Talent Points: 3 You mentally support yourself in water or similar liquid. You can swim at a speed of 10 ft using the power alone, or use it to boost your swim speed by 10 ft. Special:This version of float can not be augmented. You must expend a power point, turning it into an effective level 1 power before you can further augment it. If you do so, you do not need to expend your psionic focus to power it. Augment: 1. [Nomad or egoist] For every additional power point you spend, your swim speed increases by 5 ft. 2. For every 2 additional power points you spend, your swim speed increases by 5 ft. 3. If you spend 2 additional power points, this power’s duration becomes “1 minute / level.” 3a. If you spend 4 additional power points, it becomes “10 minutes / level.” 3b. If you spend 6 additional power points, it becomes “1 hour / level.” 4. If you spend 10 additional power points, this power’s manifesting time becomes “1 swift action,” and its duration becomes “1 round,” but you gain a sudden, blinding burst of speed. You gain a swim speed of 400 ft, but you can only swim in a straight line. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. As a 0 level talent, the power can be manifested by expending your psionic focus. The "*" denotes that the power can be incarnated.
Jaid 08-15-07, 03:25 PM	just to clarify, i assume that's one of the powers you're reworking lycanthromancer? just checking, because it's not something i remember seeing in the SRD =P
Tempest Stormwind 08-15-07, 04:10 PM	just to clarify, i assume that's one of the powers you're reworking lycanthromancer? just checking, because it's not something i remember seeing in the SRD =P It's in the SRD and sees less use than the Virtue cantrip. His is a reworked version.