Psionics? what is it to you? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionics? what is it to you? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lovexhate
11-19-07, 08:58 PM :confused: ok so i have no idea what Psionics is can someone explain it to me:confused: :evillaugh
calronmoonflower
11-19-07, 09:03 PM It's the power of the mind given form. It functions like an updated form of the spell point system. You can find the rules for it in the SRD and most likely the FAQ on top of the forum.
Bacris
11-19-07, 09:15 PM It's all that is good and pure in D&D.
Dravda
11-19-07, 09:28 PM It feels like an attempt to insert another game's magic system into DnD for some mysterious reason.

But I've never played psionics, so I wouldn't know.

-Count Dravda
IceFractal
11-19-07, 10:10 PM In terms of flavor, it's internal power, as opposed to external power from the planes or gods.

How it fits in the world is up to the DM. It could be an alien form of magic from distant planes, or it could be the natural form of magic, with arcane and divine as the interlopers. It could even be indistinguishable from normal magic - one mage uses psionics, another uses wizardry, and to the layman there's no difference.

In terms of mechanics, it actually feels more natural, IMO. You have a certain amount of personal capacity. The more powerful an effect you want, the more energy you must spend. You know a certain set of powers, and you can use whichever of them you choose, until your capacity is exhausted. Closer to most fantasy than the Vancian system.

One important difference, which can throw people off, is that higher level powers are not necessarily more potent, just more advanced. A power you learned at level 1 can have as strong an effect, and cost as much, as one you learned later. This is particularly true of the blasting-type powers.

Also, remember that you can, and should, customize the name and description of powers to fit your campaign. Energy Ray is a general name so you can tell what it does. It doesn't mean that people actually call it that in the game world.
Psionx
11-20-07, 02:10 AM My cb radio for when mystra stops all magic everywhere...
Slagger the Chuul
11-20-07, 09:21 AM In terms of mechanics, it actually feels more natural, IMO. You have a certain amount of personal capacity. The more powerful an effect you want, the more energy you must spend. You know a certain set of powers, and you can use whichever of them you choose, until your capacity is exhausted. Closer to most fantasy than the Vancian system.

The Vancian system fits pretty well with the bookish wizard who prepares through careful study and memorization, it just doesn't fit as nicely with most of the other magical types.
Amaril
11-20-07, 10:34 AM My perception of psionics is that it is a mental influence on the physical and metaphysical worlds driven by sheer will, disciplined (psion) or otherwise (wilder). In some instances, strong personal ideals can act as a source of that will (ardent/divine mind). In other instances, that will can give form to energy that can be wielded like matter (soulknife).

Notice that none of this is very different than magic with the exception of flavor and execution. The resulting effects are very similar.
Illithid00
11-20-07, 01:34 PM The 3.0 Psionics Handbook didn't mesh very well at all with the core rulebooks and existing magic system, but Expanded Psionics Handbook feels like it's even more natural and user-friendly than wizardry and divine spells. Personally, I believe that there should be 4 core rule books: Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, and Expanded Psionics Handbook.
InkBlot
11-24-07, 05:26 PM Sorry for the necrobump. I really wanted to post in this thread earlier, but I procrastinated because I was afraid it would be too difficult to find all the quotes I wanted to include.

Psionic comes from fantasy and mysticism which hasn't been touched by D&D. It cleaves close to it's sources; Edwardian parlor room seances, new-age mysticism, and ancient Tibetan religions.

For example, power displays primarily come from seances. When a psychic medium contacted the dead, ectoplasm (frequently damp cheesecloth) would seep into reality from nowhere, there would be eerie noises and strange lights, and occasionally strange smells as well.

The crystal fetish comes primarily from Edgar Cayce's legacy. In his famous psychic trances, in which he claimed to tap into the universal subconcious or "akashic library," he would describe ancient Atlantis and the secret psychic powers of crystals the Atlanteans had discovered. Due to Cayce's fame, other psychics began using crystals as props in order to appear more authentic. The crystals simply managed to stick around until the new age movement, and were a handy thing for new agers to invest meaning into.

Astral constructs are tulpas. It comes from ancient Tibetan religion and mysticism. It can be thought of as an extension of the velveteen rabbit principle, or of subjective reality. If you believe that your tulpa is real, act like it's real, and never think of it as anything other than real, then it becomes real. A tulpa is made of ectoplasm merely because ectoplasm is what thoughts are made of. The astral plane (not invented by D&D, btw) is where thoughts happen and is made of thoughts.

The above are only the first examples that leapt to mind. If you look at books on magic, mysticism, and psychic phenomena from between 1890's and 1970's then you can easily find more. If you don't want to use your local library than use Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=qO&q=edgar+cayce&btnG=Search), Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_%28parapsychology%29), and the Skeptic's Dictionary (http://skepdic.com/contents.html#E).

There are also a lot of great replies, by other posters, on this question in the thread Real-World Mysticism in D&D Psionics (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=844786). AntiDjinn in particular had a lot to say.

I have always viewed psions has having more in common with monks and clerics than with wizards. I tend to play them up as mystics who practice an esoteric "inner religion." Like clerics, manifesters must have a focused belief system and their abilities are powered by faith (it is just self-directed faith rather than worship). I see wizards as much more scientific; memorizing formulas and using material components to produce exacting effects. The arcane caster just has to plug in the variables and the spell result will happen, the psionic manifester must make the effect happen through projection of his will into the world.

I use transparency, but dispelling effects is based on the fact that spell and power effects are supernatural so their ability to exist in the world may be attacked regardless of origin. If you are confronted with a Wall of Fire (arcane), of Ectoplasm (psionic), or of Light (divine) it exists in space because of a specific interaction between Nature and Supernature (or rather, because someone has invoked a rule of Supernature to supersede natural laws, which would not normally maintain such a structure, or even allow it to come into existence). If you know how to dispel and are skilled at using it, then you can flush the supernatural effect and return the space to what would exist there naturally (no wall) regardless of what type of wall was present.

Ectoplasm has also been described historically as being like fine ash or spiderweb. It was believed to be gossamer and fleeting. The first modern appearance as a slime was in Poltergeist (as far as I know), though Ghostbusters popularized it.

The way I view ectoplasm, astral matter, materia astra, or whatever you want to call it, is that in its native state it has mass but neutral properties. Like the slime in GB II, it responds to psychic stimuli. A shaper reaches into the astral plane and pulls fourth a glob of ectoplasm to give his creations mass and substance, but the properties of that substance follow the parameters he lays down when he manifests. It can be solid or mutable, animate or inanimate, match the properties of mundane materials such a wood, stone, or metal, or retain its otherworldly properties such as when it is used to make a wall of ectoplasm. Basically, the thoughts of a shaper lack only substance to make them real free-standing objects, ectoplasm provides this substance.
Sunrider
11-25-07, 01:18 AM Psionics in 3.5? A great, flexible system of mechanics to describe the generation of supernatural abilities by an individual, together with a great power source for those who prefer mysticism and power of the mind (think Indian mythology, Zen Buddhism, Jedi) over the archetypal Western spellcaster who mixes exotic ingredients, says a few magic words and gets an effect.

The same mechanics could easily be expanded to cover other forms of spellcasting with a simple flavour change - namely, changing 'power points' to 'mana' and saying that, instead of concentrating on an effect, the caster chants and/or waves a staff around.
JulesCARV
11-28-07, 01:07 AM My take: (reposted (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14020634&postcount=30))

Being a wielder of divine magic is like being an employee in a company. You regularly work for the same boss, whether that boss is a deity or other cosmic force. The boss gives you certain resources you need to do your job, and usually expects certain things in return. (There are exceptions to this, such as the archivist, chameleon, and ranger, who seem to be able to wield divine magic without any obligations. Maybe the shugenja as well -- not sure.)

Being a wielder of arcane magic is like being an freelance contractor. You make independent deals with magical forces on an ad hoc basis. Usually these are non-sentient cosmic forces that react in a predictable cause-and-effect manner, but you still deal with them in a manner that is, in many ways, like establishing a contract with them. Sometimes, of course, you deal with more sentient, active forces, particularly when dealing with conjuration. Either way, like a divine mage, you're dealing with outside forces, but unlike a divine mage, you do so on an ad hoc, contractual basis, not through long term service.

Being a wielder of psionic power is like being a backwoodsman survivalist type who doesn't participate in the "magical economy" at all, but lives self-sufficiently in some log cabin, making his own tools, chopping his own wood, curing hides, managing a little garden, and brewing his own bathtub moonshine, which probably has enough methanol content to serve as racecar fuel.
InkBlot
11-28-07, 01:43 AM JulesCARV, great metaphors!

And I completely forgot about the quotes in my sig until you just reminded me. Thankyou.

How does psionics not have magical flavor?

I mean, when I think "science," I think bespectacled old men bent over bubbling beakers over bunsen burners, studying books of mathematical formulas, jotting down notes and attempting to figure out the secrets of the universe through chemical experimentation. Mixing nitrogen (which is in bat poo) with other chemicals to create an explosive compound in order to make a fireball? Science.

When I think magic and mysticism, I think of someone who hones their mind into a weapon to wield the forces of the universe, or one who attempts to meditate in order to unlock the secrets of the cosmos.

So, which of those describes a wizard, and which describes a psion? I mean, really.

Psion- "I've trained my mind to hold an arsenal of powers. I have a variety of powers at my command, no mortal mind could hold more than my unified mind. Erudites limit themselves by 'dividing' the unified whole. They compress part of that whole into this 'subconscious' limiting the number of powers their minds can hold."

Erudite- "The conscious mind can only channel so many powers at once. The Psion cripples himself by trying to make his mind a unified whole. This is a falicy, the subconscious is potentially infinite, once one knows how to tap it. I may only hold a finite amount in the conscious, but I can learn, and be prepared for, anything."

And, while I'm rambling.

Monk- "The psychic warriors are like sprinters, expelling their qi in bursts of energy then exhausted afterwards. We of the White Wyrm Monastery are more like endurance runners. We are able to spread out qi through our body for long, consistent, results."

Psychic warrior- "Monks take their full potential and let it come out slowly, like runoff from a lake. We are able to call it forth in the torrent of the waterfall, knowing that the lake will fill again."

Wilder- "I don't know what you're talking about. I've always been able to have my imaginary friend get stuff for me. Though now everyone else can see him." *Manifests astral construct* "Don't ask me how Bert shows up, he just does."
The Ubbergeek
11-30-07, 04:48 PM Somes see a connection, a tie between Monk (and other related classes) Ki and the psychic energy. That could be interesting to explorate and developate.
GuyrtheadamantineOne
12-18-07, 06:19 PM Read my sig.
TheKeyofE
12-18-07, 07:31 PM Since someone else already revived this thread (thanks, Guyr!) I don't feel bad about reposting this from another thread:All magic, ALL magic, is based on focused intent. This is true for both fantasy and "real life" magic.

Thoughts have energy, and that energy, when focused, is enough to alter and rearrange the natural energies of the universe. Arcane magic combines focused intent with spoken and physical components to project that intent and alter those energies. Divine magic relies on a power outside of the caster to give an effect to their intent. Psychic energy is still the driving force behind both.

Psionics is focused intent that skips the intermediate steps, going from thought straight to effect. In some ways, it's harder to master than arcane or divine, in some ways it's easier. But the driving force behind all three is the same, focused intent. Chi-wuxia powers, a la Kung Fu movies or Tome of Battle, function off the same principle.

To sum up, psychic energy is the basis for pretty much everything that could be called "magic." The world is filled with natural/life energy, it has been called by many names, such as chi/qi/ki/prana. Magic is simply manipulating that energy to produce an effect that goes beyond the mere physical.

To me, psionics is the most pure route to go from thought to metaphysical effect. I'm not saying it's the "best" or the "most powerful" (comparing to arcane or divine or other forms of "magic") it's simply the most direct. In other words, psionics is like the underlying base of other forms of magic when all the other layers are peeled away.
RadicalTaoist
12-18-07, 09:11 PM :confused: ok so i have no idea what Psionics is can someone explain it to me:confused: :evillaugh

It's all that is good and pure in D&D.

QFT...at least if by Psionics you mean the 3.5 XPH.
Kelmourne
12-19-07, 06:48 PM My cb radio for when mystra stops all magic everywhere...

If magic is Windows then psionics is Apple: It's shinier, prettier, less popular, it's got a diehard fan-base, and once you get past the radically diferent interface, it's quite simple to use.
CrimsonDeath
12-19-07, 08:52 PM If magic is Windows then psionics is Apple: It's shinier, prettier, less popular, it's got a diehard fan-base, and once you get past the radically diferent interface, it's quite simple to use.

Really?

I'd say Windows is Arcane magic, Mac is Divine, and Psionics is Linux.
Kelmourne
12-19-07, 10:29 PM Really?

I'd say Windows is Arcane magic, Mac is Divine, and Psionics is Linux.

I'd say Linux is more like Incarnum.
Mercurius
12-19-07, 10:47 PM What is psionics to me? It's awesome. It feels more like how magic should work in a game than Vancian. There's a reason a lot of people who don't care as much about power as style in core games gravitate towards the sorcerer, and there's a reason psionics trumps that. Spontaneity is what fantasy magic is typically about - rotes you know and can use whenever you like, until you've worn yourself out. Psionics just works better for that.

And it opens up a whole host of extra abilities, in the form of Psionic feats, that are just fun. I love Speed of Thought, I love Psionic Shot, I love all those tools and toys that being psionic gives a character. It's awesome.

As for how I use it in my games, it's the third form of magic, the magic of making your dreams manifest, helping to reinforce some fluff for my setting, and helping to make magic a bit more interesting. Three is better than two, after all.
InkBlot
12-20-07, 12:21 AM Really?

I'd say Windows is Arcane magic, Mac is Divine, and Psionics is Linux.

Although Macintosh is divine, I wouldn't say it's Divine.

Let's see... Windows is bloated, poorly designed, but it's got tons of software and everybody accepts it. MacOSX is pretty, easy to use, well built, is widely known but not widely used, and doesn't have as much software. Linux is obscure, well built, more elegant than Windows but generally requires some computer knowledge, and what software there is is typically homebrew/opensource.

I would say Windows is core magic. The big three in particular. Clerics, Druids, and Wizards.

I think psionics fits great for MacOSX. MacOSX is actually not MacOS at all, but rather NEXTSTEP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEXTSTEP) in disguise. MacOS was significantly less transparent than OSX, but I wouldn't say MacOS was like 3rd edition psionics.

I almost want to say pact magic or incarnum is a match for Apple as a whole. Everybody knows Apple thanks to the iPod (and now iPhone); everybody knows pact magic because of Naberius; everybody knows incarnum because of Strongheart Vest. But the connection with MacOSX isn't there. Neither subsystem is powerful enough, has a strong enough fanbase, or is transparent enough.

Linux, I agree, is incarnum.

P.S.; I would have said "Tome Of Battle is Macintosh," but I could only dream of a day when Mac is that widely used. Maybe if this were 1987, and we were all on Usenet.
JulesCARV
12-20-07, 02:29 PM IMHO, psionics is still too Vancian -- or at least too much like core magic -- for my taste.

For example, I think they should have ditched the idea of a coherent "power level," like spell level. They should have given each spell a simple minimum manifester level and power point cost. For instance, they could have created a darkvision or overland flight-style power with a minimum manifester level of 12, but 0 power point cost. If you're a badass enough psion, you can fly or see in the dark at will without spending any power points (although still having to spend a "powers known" slot), but you can't do it until you're pretty badass.

The idea of 9 single spell levels, each taking up a slot of a given level, is needed for Vancian magic, but it wasn't really necessary. "How soon can you manifest it?" could have been done much more discretely with manifester levels, which are twice as precise as spell levels/power levels, and how much it costs could have been done directly with power points.

On the other hand, maybe it would just mean more things to remember, since you now have to remember two things about a power, rather than just one.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lovexhate 11-19-07, 08:58 PM	:confused: ok so i have no idea what Psionics is can someone explain it to me:confused: :evillaugh
calronmoonflower 11-19-07, 09:03 PM	It's the power of the mind given form. It functions like an updated form of the spell point system. You can find the rules for it in the SRD and most likely the FAQ on top of the forum.
Bacris 11-19-07, 09:15 PM	It's all that is good and pure in D&D.
Dravda 11-19-07, 09:28 PM	It feels like an attempt to insert another game's magic system into DnD for some mysterious reason. But I've never played psionics, so I wouldn't know. -Count Dravda
IceFractal 11-19-07, 10:10 PM	In terms of flavor, it's internal power, as opposed to external power from the planes or gods. How it fits in the world is up to the DM. It could be an alien form of magic from distant planes, or it could be the natural form of magic, with arcane and divine as the interlopers. It could even be indistinguishable from normal magic - one mage uses psionics, another uses wizardry, and to the layman there's no difference. In terms of mechanics, it actually feels more natural, IMO. You have a certain amount of personal capacity. The more powerful an effect you want, the more energy you must spend. You know a certain set of powers, and you can use whichever of them you choose, until your capacity is exhausted. Closer to most fantasy than the Vancian system. One important difference, which can throw people off, is that higher level powers are not necessarily more potent, just more advanced. A power you learned at level 1 can have as strong an effect, and cost as much, as one you learned later. This is particularly true of the blasting-type powers. Also, remember that you can, and should, customize the name and description of powers to fit your campaign. Energy Ray is a general name so you can tell what it does. It doesn't mean that people actually call it that in the game world.
Psionx 11-20-07, 02:10 AM	My cb radio for when mystra stops all magic everywhere...
Slagger the Chuul 11-20-07, 09:21 AM	In terms of mechanics, it actually feels more natural, IMO. You have a certain amount of personal capacity. The more powerful an effect you want, the more energy you must spend. You know a certain set of powers, and you can use whichever of them you choose, until your capacity is exhausted. Closer to most fantasy than the Vancian system. The Vancian system fits pretty well with the bookish wizard who prepares through careful study and memorization, it just doesn't fit as nicely with most of the other magical types.
Amaril 11-20-07, 10:34 AM	My perception of psionics is that it is a mental influence on the physical and metaphysical worlds driven by sheer will, disciplined (psion) or otherwise (wilder). In some instances, strong personal ideals can act as a source of that will (ardent/divine mind). In other instances, that will can give form to energy that can be wielded like matter (soulknife). Notice that none of this is very different than magic with the exception of flavor and execution. The resulting effects are very similar.
Illithid00 11-20-07, 01:34 PM	The 3.0 Psionics Handbook didn't mesh very well at all with the core rulebooks and existing magic system, but Expanded Psionics Handbook feels like it's even more natural and user-friendly than wizardry and divine spells. Personally, I believe that there should be 4 core rule books: Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, and Expanded Psionics Handbook.
InkBlot 11-24-07, 05:26 PM	Sorry for the necrobump. I really wanted to post in this thread earlier, but I procrastinated because I was afraid it would be too difficult to find all the quotes I wanted to include. Psionic comes from fantasy and mysticism which hasn't been touched by D&D. It cleaves close to it's sources; Edwardian parlor room seances, new-age mysticism, and ancient Tibetan religions. For example, power displays primarily come from seances. When a psychic medium contacted the dead, ectoplasm (frequently damp cheesecloth) would seep into reality from nowhere, there would be eerie noises and strange lights, and occasionally strange smells as well. The crystal fetish comes primarily from Edgar Cayce's legacy. In his famous psychic trances, in which he claimed to tap into the universal subconcious or "akashic library," he would describe ancient Atlantis and the secret psychic powers of crystals the Atlanteans had discovered. Due to Cayce's fame, other psychics began using crystals as props in order to appear more authentic. The crystals simply managed to stick around until the new age movement, and were a handy thing for new agers to invest meaning into. Astral constructs are tulpas. It comes from ancient Tibetan religion and mysticism. It can be thought of as an extension of the velveteen rabbit principle, or of subjective reality. If you believe that your tulpa is real, act like it's real, and never think of it as anything other than real, then it becomes real. A tulpa is made of ectoplasm merely because ectoplasm is what thoughts are made of. The astral plane (not invented by D&D, btw) is where thoughts happen and is made of thoughts. The above are only the first examples that leapt to mind. If you look at books on magic, mysticism, and psychic phenomena from between 1890's and 1970's then you can easily find more. If you don't want to use your local library than use Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=qO&q=edgar+cayce&btnG=Search), Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psi_%28parapsychology%29), and the Skeptic's Dictionary (http://skepdic.com/contents.html#E). There are also a lot of great replies, by other posters, on this question in the thread Real-World Mysticism in D&D Psionics (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=844786). AntiDjinn in particular had a lot to say. I have always viewed psions has having more in common with monks and clerics than with wizards. I tend to play them up as mystics who practice an esoteric "inner religion." Like clerics, manifesters must have a focused belief system and their abilities are powered by faith (it is just self-directed faith rather than worship). I see wizards as much more scientific; memorizing formulas and using material components to produce exacting effects. The arcane caster just has to plug in the variables and the spell result will happen, the psionic manifester must make the effect happen through projection of his will into the world. I use transparency, but dispelling effects is based on the fact that spell and power effects are supernatural so their ability to exist in the world may be attacked regardless of origin. If you are confronted with a Wall of Fire (arcane), of Ectoplasm (psionic), or of Light (divine) it exists in space because of a specific interaction between Nature and Supernature (or rather, because someone has invoked a rule of Supernature to supersede natural laws, which would not normally maintain such a structure, or even allow it to come into existence). If you know how to dispel and are skilled at using it, then you can flush the supernatural effect and return the space to what would exist there naturally (no wall) regardless of what type of wall was present. Ectoplasm has also been described historically as being like fine ash or spiderweb. It was believed to be gossamer and fleeting. The first modern appearance as a slime was in Poltergeist (as far as I know), though Ghostbusters popularized it. The way I view ectoplasm, astral matter, materia astra, or whatever you want to call it, is that in its native state it has mass but neutral properties. Like the slime in GB II, it responds to psychic stimuli. A shaper reaches into the astral plane and pulls fourth a glob of ectoplasm to give his creations mass and substance, but the properties of that substance follow the parameters he lays down when he manifests. It can be solid or mutable, animate or inanimate, match the properties of mundane materials such a wood, stone, or metal, or retain its otherworldly properties such as when it is used to make a wall of ectoplasm. Basically, the thoughts of a shaper lack only substance to make them real free-standing objects, ectoplasm provides this substance.
Sunrider 11-25-07, 01:18 AM	Psionics in 3.5? A great, flexible system of mechanics to describe the generation of supernatural abilities by an individual, together with a great power source for those who prefer mysticism and power of the mind (think Indian mythology, Zen Buddhism, Jedi) over the archetypal Western spellcaster who mixes exotic ingredients, says a few magic words and gets an effect. The same mechanics could easily be expanded to cover other forms of spellcasting with a simple flavour change - namely, changing 'power points' to 'mana' and saying that, instead of concentrating on an effect, the caster chants and/or waves a staff around.
JulesCARV 11-28-07, 01:07 AM	My take: (reposted (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14020634&postcount=30)) Being a wielder of divine magic is like being an employee in a company. You regularly work for the same boss, whether that boss is a deity or other cosmic force. The boss gives you certain resources you need to do your job, and usually expects certain things in return. (There are exceptions to this, such as the archivist, chameleon, and ranger, who seem to be able to wield divine magic without any obligations. Maybe the shugenja as well -- not sure.) Being a wielder of arcane magic is like being an freelance contractor. You make independent deals with magical forces on an ad hoc basis. Usually these are non-sentient cosmic forces that react in a predictable cause-and-effect manner, but you still deal with them in a manner that is, in many ways, like establishing a contract with them. Sometimes, of course, you deal with more sentient, active forces, particularly when dealing with conjuration. Either way, like a divine mage, you're dealing with outside forces, but unlike a divine mage, you do so on an ad hoc, contractual basis, not through long term service. Being a wielder of psionic power is like being a backwoodsman survivalist type who doesn't participate in the "magical economy" at all, but lives self-sufficiently in some log cabin, making his own tools, chopping his own wood, curing hides, managing a little garden, and brewing his own bathtub moonshine, which probably has enough methanol content to serve as racecar fuel.
InkBlot 11-28-07, 01:43 AM	JulesCARV, great metaphors! And I completely forgot about the quotes in my sig until you just reminded me. Thankyou. How does psionics not have magical flavor? I mean, when I think "science," I think bespectacled old men bent over bubbling beakers over bunsen burners, studying books of mathematical formulas, jotting down notes and attempting to figure out the secrets of the universe through chemical experimentation. Mixing nitrogen (which is in bat poo) with other chemicals to create an explosive compound in order to make a fireball? Science. When I think magic and mysticism, I think of someone who hones their mind into a weapon to wield the forces of the universe, or one who attempts to meditate in order to unlock the secrets of the cosmos. So, which of those describes a wizard, and which describes a psion? I mean, really. Psion- "I've trained my mind to hold an arsenal of powers. I have a variety of powers at my command, no mortal mind could hold more than my unified mind. Erudites limit themselves by 'dividing' the unified whole. They compress part of that whole into this 'subconscious' limiting the number of powers their minds can hold." Erudite- "The conscious mind can only channel so many powers at once. The Psion cripples himself by trying to make his mind a unified whole. This is a falicy, the subconscious is potentially infinite, once one knows how to tap it. I may only hold a finite amount in the conscious, but I can learn, and be prepared for, anything." And, while I'm rambling. Monk- "The psychic warriors are like sprinters, expelling their qi in bursts of energy then exhausted afterwards. We of the White Wyrm Monastery are more like endurance runners. We are able to spread out qi through our body for long, consistent, results." Psychic warrior- "Monks take their full potential and let it come out slowly, like runoff from a lake. We are able to call it forth in the torrent of the waterfall, knowing that the lake will fill again." Wilder- "I don't know what you're talking about. I've always been able to have my imaginary friend get stuff for me. Though now everyone else can see him." Manifests astral construct "Don't ask me how Bert shows up, he just does."
The Ubbergeek 11-30-07, 04:48 PM	Somes see a connection, a tie between Monk (and other related classes) Ki and the psychic energy. That could be interesting to explorate and developate.
GuyrtheadamantineOne 12-18-07, 06:19 PM	Read my sig.
TheKeyofE 12-18-07, 07:31 PM	Since someone else already revived this thread (thanks, Guyr!) I don't feel bad about reposting this from another thread:All magic, ALL magic, is based on focused intent. This is true for both fantasy and "real life" magic. Thoughts have energy, and that energy, when focused, is enough to alter and rearrange the natural energies of the universe. Arcane magic combines focused intent with spoken and physical components to project that intent and alter those energies. Divine magic relies on a power outside of the caster to give an effect to their intent. Psychic energy is still the driving force behind both. Psionics is focused intent that skips the intermediate steps, going from thought straight to effect. In some ways, it's harder to master than arcane or divine, in some ways it's easier. But the driving force behind all three is the same, focused intent. Chi-wuxia powers, a la Kung Fu movies or Tome of Battle, function off the same principle. To sum up, psychic energy is the basis for pretty much everything that could be called "magic." The world is filled with natural/life energy, it has been called by many names, such as chi/qi/ki/prana. Magic is simply manipulating that energy to produce an effect that goes beyond the mere physical. To me, psionics is the most pure route to go from thought to metaphysical effect. I'm not saying it's the "best" or the "most powerful" (comparing to arcane or divine or other forms of "magic") it's simply the most direct. In other words, psionics is like the underlying base of other forms of magic when all the other layers are peeled away.
RadicalTaoist 12-18-07, 09:11 PM	:confused: ok so i have no idea what Psionics is can someone explain it to me:confused: :evillaugh It's all that is good and pure in D&D. QFT...at least if by Psionics you mean the 3.5 XPH.
Kelmourne 12-19-07, 06:48 PM	My cb radio for when mystra stops all magic everywhere... If magic is Windows then psionics is Apple: It's shinier, prettier, less popular, it's got a diehard fan-base, and once you get past the radically diferent interface, it's quite simple to use.
CrimsonDeath 12-19-07, 08:52 PM	If magic is Windows then psionics is Apple: It's shinier, prettier, less popular, it's got a diehard fan-base, and once you get past the radically diferent interface, it's quite simple to use. Really? I'd say Windows is Arcane magic, Mac is Divine, and Psionics is Linux.
Kelmourne 12-19-07, 10:29 PM	Really? I'd say Windows is Arcane magic, Mac is Divine, and Psionics is Linux. I'd say Linux is more like Incarnum.
Mercurius 12-19-07, 10:47 PM	What is psionics to me? It's awesome. It feels more like how magic should work in a game than Vancian. There's a reason a lot of people who don't care as much about power as style in core games gravitate towards the sorcerer, and there's a reason psionics trumps that. Spontaneity is what fantasy magic is typically about - rotes you know and can use whenever you like, until you've worn yourself out. Psionics just works better for that. And it opens up a whole host of extra abilities, in the form of Psionic feats, that are just fun. I love Speed of Thought, I love Psionic Shot, I love all those tools and toys that being psionic gives a character. It's awesome. As for how I use it in my games, it's the third form of magic, the magic of making your dreams manifest, helping to reinforce some fluff for my setting, and helping to make magic a bit more interesting. Three is better than two, after all.
InkBlot 12-20-07, 12:21 AM	Really? I'd say Windows is Arcane magic, Mac is Divine, and Psionics is Linux. Although Macintosh is divine, I wouldn't say it's Divine. Let's see... Windows is bloated, poorly designed, but it's got tons of software and everybody accepts it. MacOSX is pretty, easy to use, well built, is widely known but not widely used, and doesn't have as much software. Linux is obscure, well built, more elegant than Windows but generally requires some computer knowledge, and what software there is is typically homebrew/opensource. I would say Windows is core magic. The big three in particular. Clerics, Druids, and Wizards. I think psionics fits great for MacOSX. MacOSX is actually not MacOS at all, but rather NEXTSTEP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEXTSTEP) in disguise. MacOS was significantly less transparent than OSX, but I wouldn't say MacOS was like 3rd edition psionics. I almost want to say pact magic or incarnum is a match for Apple as a whole. Everybody knows Apple thanks to the iPod (and now iPhone); everybody knows pact magic because of Naberius; everybody knows incarnum because of Strongheart Vest. But the connection with MacOSX isn't there. Neither subsystem is powerful enough, has a strong enough fanbase, or is transparent enough. Linux, I agree, is incarnum. P.S.; I would have said "Tome Of Battle is Macintosh," but I could only dream of a day when Mac is that widely used. Maybe if this were 1987, and we were all on Usenet.
JulesCARV 12-20-07, 02:29 PM	IMHO, psionics is still too Vancian -- or at least too much like core magic -- for my taste. For example, I think they should have ditched the idea of a coherent "power level," like spell level. They should have given each spell a simple minimum manifester level and power point cost. For instance, they could have created a darkvision or overland flight-style power with a minimum manifester level of 12, but 0 power point cost. If you're a badass enough psion, you can fly or see in the dark at will without spending any power points (although still having to spend a "powers known" slot), but you can't do it until you're pretty badass. The idea of 9 single spell levels, each taking up a slot of a given level, is needed for Vancian magic, but it wasn't really necessary. "How soon can you manifest it?" could have been done much more discretely with manifester levels, which are twice as precise as spell levels/power levels, and how much it costs could have been done directly with power points. On the other hand, maybe it would just mean more things to remember, since you now have to remember two things about a power, rather than just one.