Psychic Warrior (Soulbound Weapon Variant) Clarification [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psychic Warrior (Soulbound Weapon Variant) Clarification [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dranacian
03-04-08, 10:44 AM The article is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) for the variant.

I'm unsure what the variant actually means. When I first read it quickly, I thought that it was the normal: make your weapon magically enhanced like a magic weapon. But when I read it again, I read it a different way: you gain a, quote "weapon enhancement" equivalent to a +X weapon bonus.

1) My reasoning for this has to do with the structure of the sentences in the article. It says in the DMG and other source books whenever they talk about weapons, they say "enhancement bonus(s)". Obviously this means the bonus is of the type enhancement. In the article for the variant it says in every place that it is a "weapon enhancement". No bonuses. This made me curious. Further down, at the augmentation section, it further clarifies that it isn't an enhancement bonus, it is an equivalent weapon enhancement of the value. It says that for the example of augmentation that:...you could add two +1 weapon enhancements or a single +2 weapon enhancement.
If you infer it this way, it could mean that you get no enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage, but you only gain weapon abilities (Shocking Burst, Keen, etc.) that has the equivalence of +X weapon enhancement.

2) Another way to read it:
It might be wishful thinking, but even if it cannot be seen like that, it still doesn't state what type of bonus it is. It just says you gain "+X weapon". Since it is an untyped bonus, it could mean that you can stack it with the +X enhancement bonus of your PWM or Kensai weapon for example (because those give bonuses to a specific weapon and the soul bound weapon is a specific weapon every time that gets summoned when you manifest "Call Weaponry").

3) A third way of possibly seeing the text:
Ok, so they are both enhancement bonuses, overlapping each other, but existing independently on the same weapon. You have let's say a +2(Soulbound) and a +2(PWM). Your only getting a +2 to attack and damage. But, you can use the PWM one to give you let's say keen on your weapon. So now you have a +2(Soulbound) and a +1, Keen(PWM). This gives you a net bonus of +2 and Keen to your weapon. You can use all of the bonuses on one to gain weapon abilities and get even more on the other. A possible +19 total.

If this build works, I was thinking something like PW(9)/Elocator(1)/PWM(10) as a build skeleton for this trick.

Now, I admit that this might be entirely incorrect. Please feel free to shoot my idea down if you see something wrong. Or, if you find that there is a way to utilize this or improve this, please post a response. I'd love to hear it.

Thanks for your help,
-Dranacian
awaken_D_M_golem
03-04-08, 05:57 PM Call weaponry ... is the primary source. The class feature upgrades it some.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/callWeaponry.htm

Overall, it's a PsyWar without 2 feats + a slightly lesser Soulknife without 2 feats.
Stick a recharge set-up into it, fire's it up a bit.
dranacian
03-04-08, 06:19 PM Thanks for your response. I agree that the variant is pretty bad. But I was wondering how the variant ability affects a weapon that is already buffed due to other means such as Psychic Weapon Master (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)), or the Kensai. Just because for the variant's weapon that you'll summon you pick a weapon that is always the same and thus can be a crystal sword or whatever. This lets you meet the requirement for the PWM's ability to give your weapon bonuses. Since you can stack these as far as I can tell (see my post above for details), can you get an effective weapon that is far above a +10 weapon?

Thanks,
-Dranacian
hogarth
03-04-08, 11:13 PM My interpretation is that you get a "free" enhancement bonus of +1 per 4 levels (so a level 8 psychic warrior can get a +2 weapon for 1 pp instead of having to pay 5 pp for it). In addition, there's the option to get weapon abilities added to it (for 5 pp per +1 equivalent).

Too bad that (a) Call Weaponry takes a full round to manifest and (b) it only lasts a minute per level. If there were an augmentation that made it a swift action or last an hour per level, it might be more interesting, but who wants to spend the first round of every fight going "O.K., now let me get my weapon out ve-e-e-e-ery slo-o-o-o-owly"?

I like choosing the weapon abilities on the fly, though ("One magebane humanbane sword coming right up...").
awaken_D_M_golem
03-05-08, 04:19 PM "I like choosing the weapon abilities on the fly." BINGO.

Call Weaponry produces a power, that just happens to be a weapon.
I don't think a weapon based class upgrade, effects it. DM could houserule though.
Twin Power = 2 mind blades.
Linked Power with a swift 1st level power = 2 crossbow shots, drop, slice !!

You gestalt PsyWar+Soulknife, minus a couple of feat slots, that's not that bad. Flavor. 2 feats = +5 weapon and more.
Recharge makes it better, which is delayed in this build, compared to a Mantled PsyWar.
Lycanthromancer
03-05-08, 04:29 PM Link Power could be the solution to this. Make sure you have some cheap, low-grade weapon (like a short sword), then in the first round, manifest something like hustle linked with call weaponry. That'll allow you to move up to your first foe, full attack, then have a really nice weapon next round. :)
dranacian
03-05-08, 05:45 PM Thank you everyone for your responses.

Could you elaborate a bit more about the actual weapon summoned and how (if) it would work with the PWM or Kensai. I might be trying too hard :) , but here goes:

Posted by awaken_D_M_golem:
Call Weaponry produces a power, that just happens to be a weapon.
I don't think a weapon based class upgrade, effects it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the weapon is a real weapon I believe. I mean I don't think it doesn't produces a power. It is a teleportation power much like conjuration, where it just brings a real thing to you for a set time.

The Soulbound Weapon variant says this:
This is a specific weapon every time you summon it
meaning that it is the same weapon every time right? Not a random one from any time or space like the in the call weaponry description, a set one that exists on the astral plane (where you call it from, since it is bound to your soul). So, could you say that yours is a crystal (normal earthly material) weapon that is summoned every time. And that it is a normal weapon that acts as though it is magical because it is on the material plane. Technically, still just a normal weapon right? As the description says for call weaponry which is that it's made from normal materials.

The Psychic Weapon Master entry says this:
The psychic weapon master can form a special bond with a single melee weapon. The weapon must be the same type as her weapon of choice. The weapon must be a standard crystal melee weapon (without any magic or psionic enhancements).

If this is the case, then a kensai or PWM could use it as their weapon of choice, gaining the class bonuses for it. A PWM doesn't even need to have the same weapon, just a crystal weapon of the same type.

I guess a better question is just to ask if using call weaponry, can you call a normal crystal weapon that works with the PWM abilities?

Thanks for the information and for your help,
-Dranacian

(P.S. Sorry for the long posts. Kinda hard to explain I guess.)
hogarth
03-05-08, 07:21 PM If this is the case, then a kensai or PWM could use it as their weapon of choice, gaining the class bonuses for it. A PWM doesn't even need to have the same weapon, just a crystal weapon of the same type.

I guess a better question is just to ask if using call weaponry, can you call a normal crystal weapon that works with the PWM abilities?
a) You can't call a crystal weapon unless that's the "ordinary material" for it:
The weapon is made of ordinary materials as appropriate for its kind.
b) I think you should be able to use it as your Kensai weapon since it's a specific weapon that physically exists.
dranacian
03-05-08, 09:58 PM Ok cool. Thanks for the clarification.

If you don't mind a bit more of this :), it says in the description of a Soulbound Weapon (I added bold):
You can summon a specific weapon to your hand that is bound to your very soul. ... You must choose a soulbound weapon at 1st level ...
Couldn't you just say that I choose my weapon to be a crystal one? Or could we just call an <insert made up name of weapon here> that happens to be a crystal <weapon type here>. An example of this exact situation where a weapon is statistically derived from another weapon and is 'better' than it's predecessor would be the difference between calling a bastard sword(long sword?) and a katana. A katana is treated as a masterwork bastard sword, but it is a different weapon. Kinda hard to describe but do you see my point?

Thanks again for your help. Just trying to make an interesting new build.
-Dranacian
hogarth
03-05-08, 10:35 PM Ok cool. Thanks for the clarification.

If you don't mind a bit more of this :), it says in the description of a Soulbound Weapon (I added bold):

Couldn't you just say that I choose my weapon to be a crystal one?
I don't know what to tell you; in my opinion, crystal isn't the "ordinary material" for most weapons. But maybe your DM would allow it if you asked him.
dranacian
03-06-08, 09:27 AM Ok thanks a lot for your help.
-Dranacian
Xeraph
03-08-08, 08:12 AM I was wondering, what if your Soulbound Weapon was a Double-bladed Sword? How much of it would have an class level dependent Enhancement? And if Augmented, how much of the blade would be affected? Would it maybe take 2 Call Weaponry powers to Augment both ends?
awaken_D_M_golem
03-08-08, 02:08 PM We have a gray/grey zone. "Double-bladed Sword?" It's still one weapon (via one power). A possible use of a CPsi feat, egad.

Call Weaponry Twinned + Linked, would produce 4 weapons, but the pp augments are still limited to ML. 7pp link 7pp twin(+6) would get you 4 +5 weapons but with only a +2 weapon enhancement at 20th level. Mani- it 2 times as 16pp Twin + metapower is better weaponry, but slower manifesting.

General Grevious - ThriKreen 1 / PsyWar 8 / Cleric 1 / Psychic Theurge 10, psiotheurgist (pychoport/teleport) feat and a few gimmicks. { ... like making himself look like a war(psi-)forged ... } early entry, recharge, maybe PW 5, Monastic Servant of Aupenser X.

"It's not a Light Saber, it's a Power Ring."
An item of Soulbound Call Weaponry could be fun.
Xeraph
03-09-08, 11:27 AM psiotheurgist (pychoport/teleport) feat and a few gimmicks. { ... like making himself look like a war(psi-)forged ... } early entry, recharge, maybe PW 5, Monastic Servant of Aupenser X.
.Huh wah? are they feats?
awaken_D_M_golem
03-09-08, 02:20 PM Dragon #349 has Psiotheurgist feat. CL=CL+ML and ML=CL+ML , but in one discipline/school linkage only. Requires Spell Focus feat in the school. A very not psionic X way to increase ML. Psychoportation/(teleport) subschool link. Enchantment/Telepathy. etc. Conj(healing)/psi-healing, I forget which specific school it is. There's one more weird one ... eh, it's around here somewhere ... um.

http://candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_msoa.htm
Servant of the Fallen feat, is one of those +1 luck bonus 1/day thingies like the demon/devil worshipper feats.
REally specific build to get in, a little weak, and then BAM !!

or

ThriKreen 1 / PsyWar 5(or4) / Ur 2 / (maybe some more stuff) / PsyTheurg 1 / MSoA 7 / Something 4 (or less)
The_Shaman
03-09-08, 05:25 PM The Monastic Servant is a FR prestige class from the candlekeep archive: http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_msoa.htm ; it's supposedly from the Lost Empires of Faerun Web Enhancement. Well, okay, the author of the articles was on LEoF, so technically it is from their Web Enhancement.

Basically a cleric (or any other divine spellcaster with domains and 3rd level spells) of the semi-dead FR deity that was big on psionics a long while back. It requires a PP reserve, advances spellcasting, and can get you a few feats. Quite decent, overall, but with some tricky RP ramifications. VERY good if you're using feats that expend your psionic focus - it can eventually replenish it as an immediate action.
Xeraph
03-11-08, 03:55 PM Oh wow. That one I have never seen. Interesting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dranacian 03-04-08, 10:44 AM	The article is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) for the variant. I'm unsure what the variant actually means. When I first read it quickly, I thought that it was the normal: make your weapon magically enhanced like a magic weapon. But when I read it again, I read it a different way: you gain a, quote "weapon enhancement" equivalent to a +X weapon bonus. 1) My reasoning for this has to do with the structure of the sentences in the article. It says in the DMG and other source books whenever they talk about weapons, they say "enhancement bonus(s)". Obviously this means the bonus is of the type enhancement. In the article for the variant it says in every place that it is a "weapon enhancement". No bonuses. This made me curious. Further down, at the augmentation section, it further clarifies that it isn't an enhancement bonus, it is an equivalent weapon enhancement of the value. It says that for the example of augmentation that:...you could add two +1 weapon enhancements or a single +2 weapon enhancement. If you infer it this way, it could mean that you get no enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage, but you only gain weapon abilities (Shocking Burst, Keen, etc.) that has the equivalence of +X weapon enhancement. 2) Another way to read it: It might be wishful thinking, but even if it cannot be seen like that, it still doesn't state what type of bonus it is. It just says you gain "+X weapon". Since it is an untyped bonus, it could mean that you can stack it with the +X enhancement bonus of your PWM or Kensai weapon for example (because those give bonuses to a specific weapon and the soul bound weapon is a specific weapon every time that gets summoned when you manifest "Call Weaponry"). 3) A third way of possibly seeing the text: Ok, so they are both enhancement bonuses, overlapping each other, but existing independently on the same weapon. You have let's say a +2(Soulbound) and a +2(PWM). Your only getting a +2 to attack and damage. But, you can use the PWM one to give you let's say keen on your weapon. So now you have a +2(Soulbound) and a +1, Keen(PWM). This gives you a net bonus of +2 and Keen to your weapon. You can use all of the bonuses on one to gain weapon abilities and get even more on the other. A possible +19 total. If this build works, I was thinking something like PW(9)/Elocator(1)/PWM(10) as a build skeleton for this trick. Now, I admit that this might be entirely incorrect. Please feel free to shoot my idea down if you see something wrong. Or, if you find that there is a way to utilize this or improve this, please post a response. I'd love to hear it. Thanks for your help, -Dranacian
awaken_D_M_golem 03-04-08, 05:57 PM	Call weaponry ... is the primary source. The class feature upgrades it some. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/callWeaponry.htm Overall, it's a PsyWar without 2 feats + a slightly lesser Soulknife without 2 feats. Stick a recharge set-up into it, fire's it up a bit.
dranacian 03-04-08, 06:19 PM	Thanks for your response. I agree that the variant is pretty bad. But I was wondering how the variant ability affects a weapon that is already buffed due to other means such as Psychic Weapon Master (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)), or the Kensai. Just because for the variant's weapon that you'll summon you pick a weapon that is always the same and thus can be a crystal sword or whatever. This lets you meet the requirement for the PWM's ability to give your weapon bonuses. Since you can stack these as far as I can tell (see my post above for details), can you get an effective weapon that is far above a +10 weapon? Thanks, -Dranacian
hogarth 03-04-08, 11:13 PM	My interpretation is that you get a "free" enhancement bonus of +1 per 4 levels (so a level 8 psychic warrior can get a +2 weapon for 1 pp instead of having to pay 5 pp for it). In addition, there's the option to get weapon abilities added to it (for 5 pp per +1 equivalent). Too bad that (a) Call Weaponry takes a full round to manifest and (b) it only lasts a minute per level. If there were an augmentation that made it a swift action or last an hour per level, it might be more interesting, but who wants to spend the first round of every fight going "O.K., now let me get my weapon out ve-e-e-e-ery slo-o-o-o-owly"? I like choosing the weapon abilities on the fly, though ("One magebane humanbane sword coming right up...").
awaken_D_M_golem 03-05-08, 04:19 PM	"I like choosing the weapon abilities on the fly." BINGO. Call Weaponry produces a power, that just happens to be a weapon. I don't think a weapon based class upgrade, effects it. DM could houserule though. Twin Power = 2 mind blades. Linked Power with a swift 1st level power = 2 crossbow shots, drop, slice !! You gestalt PsyWar+Soulknife, minus a couple of feat slots, that's not that bad. Flavor. 2 feats = +5 weapon and more. Recharge makes it better, which is delayed in this build, compared to a Mantled PsyWar.
Lycanthromancer 03-05-08, 04:29 PM	Link Power could be the solution to this. Make sure you have some cheap, low-grade weapon (like a short sword), then in the first round, manifest something like hustle linked with call weaponry. That'll allow you to move up to your first foe, full attack, then have a really nice weapon next round. :)
dranacian 03-05-08, 05:45 PM	Thank you everyone for your responses. Could you elaborate a bit more about the actual weapon summoned and how (if) it would work with the PWM or Kensai. I might be trying too hard :) , but here goes: Posted by awaken_D_M_golem: Call Weaponry produces a power, that just happens to be a weapon. I don't think a weapon based class upgrade, effects it. Correct me if I am wrong, but the weapon is a real weapon I believe. I mean I don't think it doesn't produces a power. It is a teleportation power much like conjuration, where it just brings a real thing to you for a set time. The Soulbound Weapon variant says this: This is a specific weapon every time you summon it meaning that it is the same weapon every time right? Not a random one from any time or space like the in the call weaponry description, a set one that exists on the astral plane (where you call it from, since it is bound to your soul). So, could you say that yours is a crystal (normal earthly material) weapon that is summoned every time. And that it is a normal weapon that acts as though it is magical because it is on the material plane. Technically, still just a normal weapon right? As the description says for call weaponry which is that it's made from normal materials. The Psychic Weapon Master entry says this: The psychic weapon master can form a special bond with a single melee weapon. The weapon must be the same type as her weapon of choice. The weapon must be a standard crystal melee weapon (without any magic or psionic enhancements). If this is the case, then a kensai or PWM could use it as their weapon of choice, gaining the class bonuses for it. A PWM doesn't even need to have the same weapon, just a crystal weapon of the same type. I guess a better question is just to ask if using call weaponry, can you call a normal crystal weapon that works with the PWM abilities? Thanks for the information and for your help, -Dranacian (P.S. Sorry for the long posts. Kinda hard to explain I guess.)
hogarth 03-05-08, 07:21 PM	If this is the case, then a kensai or PWM could use it as their weapon of choice, gaining the class bonuses for it. A PWM doesn't even need to have the same weapon, just a crystal weapon of the same type. I guess a better question is just to ask if using call weaponry, can you call a normal crystal weapon that works with the PWM abilities? a) You can't call a crystal weapon unless that's the "ordinary material" for it: The weapon is made of ordinary materials as appropriate for its kind. b) I think you should be able to use it as your Kensai weapon since it's a specific weapon that physically exists.
dranacian 03-05-08, 09:58 PM	Ok cool. Thanks for the clarification. If you don't mind a bit more of this :), it says in the description of a Soulbound Weapon (I added bold): You can summon a specific weapon to your hand that is bound to your very soul. ... You must choose a soulbound weapon at 1st level ... Couldn't you just say that I choose my weapon to be a crystal one? Or could we just call an <insert made up name of weapon here> that happens to be a crystal <weapon type here>. An example of this exact situation where a weapon is statistically derived from another weapon and is 'better' than it's predecessor would be the difference between calling a bastard sword(long sword?) and a katana. A katana is treated as a masterwork bastard sword, but it is a different weapon. Kinda hard to describe but do you see my point? Thanks again for your help. Just trying to make an interesting new build. -Dranacian
hogarth 03-05-08, 10:35 PM	Ok cool. Thanks for the clarification. If you don't mind a bit more of this :), it says in the description of a Soulbound Weapon (I added bold): Couldn't you just say that I choose my weapon to be a crystal one? I don't know what to tell you; in my opinion, crystal isn't the "ordinary material" for most weapons. But maybe your DM would allow it if you asked him.
dranacian 03-06-08, 09:27 AM	Ok thanks a lot for your help. -Dranacian
Xeraph 03-08-08, 08:12 AM	I was wondering, what if your Soulbound Weapon was a Double-bladed Sword? How much of it would have an class level dependent Enhancement? And if Augmented, how much of the blade would be affected? Would it maybe take 2 Call Weaponry powers to Augment both ends?
awaken_D_M_golem 03-08-08, 02:08 PM	We have a gray/grey zone. "Double-bladed Sword?" It's still one weapon (via one power). A possible use of a CPsi feat, egad. Call Weaponry Twinned + Linked, would produce 4 weapons, but the pp augments are still limited to ML. 7pp link 7pp twin(+6) would get you 4 +5 weapons but with only a +2 weapon enhancement at 20th level. Mani- it 2 times as 16pp Twin + metapower is better weaponry, but slower manifesting. General Grevious - ThriKreen 1 / PsyWar 8 / Cleric 1 / Psychic Theurge 10, psiotheurgist (pychoport/teleport) feat and a few gimmicks. { ... like making himself look like a war(psi-)forged ... } early entry, recharge, maybe PW 5, Monastic Servant of Aupenser X. "It's not a Light Saber, it's a Power Ring." An item of Soulbound Call Weaponry could be fun.
Xeraph 03-09-08, 11:27 AM	psiotheurgist (pychoport/teleport) feat and a few gimmicks. { ... like making himself look like a war(psi-)forged ... } early entry, recharge, maybe PW 5, Monastic Servant of Aupenser X. .Huh wah? are they feats?
awaken_D_M_golem 03-09-08, 02:20 PM	Dragon #349 has Psiotheurgist feat. CL=CL+ML and ML=CL+ML , but in one discipline/school linkage only. Requires Spell Focus feat in the school. A very not psionic X way to increase ML. Psychoportation/(teleport) subschool link. Enchantment/Telepathy. etc. Conj(healing)/psi-healing, I forget which specific school it is. There's one more weird one ... eh, it's around here somewhere ... um. http://candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_msoa.htm Servant of the Fallen feat, is one of those +1 luck bonus 1/day thingies like the demon/devil worshipper feats. REally specific build to get in, a little weak, and then BAM !! or ThriKreen 1 / PsyWar 5(or4) / Ur 2 / (maybe some more stuff) / PsyTheurg 1 / MSoA 7 / Something 4 (or less)
The_Shaman 03-09-08, 05:25 PM	The Monastic Servant is a FR prestige class from the candlekeep archive: http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_msoa.htm ; it's supposedly from the Lost Empires of Faerun Web Enhancement. Well, okay, the author of the articles was on LEoF, so technically it is from their Web Enhancement. Basically a cleric (or any other divine spellcaster with domains and 3rd level spells) of the semi-dead FR deity that was big on psionics a long while back. It requires a PP reserve, advances spellcasting, and can get you a few feats. Quite decent, overall, but with some tricky RP ramifications. VERY good if you're using feats that expend your psionic focus - it can eventually replenish it as an immediate action.
Xeraph 03-11-08, 03:55 PM	Oh wow. That one I have never seen. Interesting.