Psychic Weapons? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psychic Weapons? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CrazyGuy
02-10-08, 10:53 PM This has been bothering me for a while now.

Am I missing something? Or is the psychic weapon enhancement worthless?

As of the MIC, it is a +2 effective enhancement bonus, in return for which you get a variable enhancement bonus depending on the size of your PP pool.

Seems pretty obviously intended for Psychic Warriors-Psions and Wilders have better places to drop 18K than weapons they will not be using with their 1/2 BAB, and nobody else has the PP pool to use them.

Now here is the problem-in order to gain an advantage to getting a Psychic weapon, as opposed to dumping a +3 into straight enhancement, you need 80 PP. Assuming a 22 Wisdom, a PW will not have this at level 13-as long as he does not manifest powers, or, in more blunt terms, use his primary class feature.

So this is an enhancement, that, at higher levels, lets you have a slightly nicer sword than you would have otherwise as long as you voluntarily accept being a fighter with fewer feats and a 3/4 BAB.
jbsaff
02-11-08, 12:13 AM Actually, Wilders have the 3/4 BAB, same as the Psychic Warrior. I think that the enchantment makes less sense for the PsyWar for the reason you mentioned. I think gish Wilders get the most out of it, especially if they go Slayer PrC
Artector
02-11-08, 12:21 AM High level psion + Psychic Weapon + Defending Weapon quality = free +3-+5 AC a good chunk of the time. With a base of 343, a high level psion has to spend a ton of power points to go to 129 or lower.
Fireclave
02-11-08, 01:24 AM While its better for a gish-wilder, the Psychic weapon enhancement can be worth it for a high level psywar. Eventually the cost of the Psychic ability can equal or surpass what you can get with a conventional weapon. Consider this:

A +1 Psychic Weapon will cost a total of 37,000gp. For the about same price, you can afford a +4 weapon. Maintaining 80+ PP for a +4 bonus will very be difficult for a psywar, but maintain 30+ PP for a +3 bonus will be much easier for a mid to high level psywar. So let's assume we have two high level psychic warriors at about 15th level. Bob has a +1 Psychic Weapon, while George has a +4 weapon. We'll also assume that Bob is being careful not to Nova his PP so that he'll remain at 30+ PP most of the time.

At the beginning of the day, both Bob and George have +4 equivalent weapons. However, as soon as Bob spends even a few of his power points, Bob is knocked down to a +3 equivalent for most of the remaining day. George wins out, but the difference between a +3 and +4 weapon is not too major overall.

Now let's assume that Bob and George decide to pimp their weapons even more. It will cost George an additional 22,000gp to add another +1 bonus to his sword. For the same money, Bob can add +2 worth of abilities to his weapon.

Bob's sword is now an equivalent of a +5 weapon for most of the day (assuming maintaining enough PP to hold a +3 enhancement) and costs Bob 53,000gp. George's sword is also a +5 weapon, and cost him 50,000gp. George is still ahead, but notice that item prices increase exponentially.

Add another +2 worth of bonuses to both their weapons. Bob's sword now starts the day at a +8 equivalent, and maintains a +7 equivalent for most of the day for a cost of 67,000gp. George's sword maintains the same equivalent for a cost of 98,000gp. Cost wise, Bob is starting to win out.

When Bob and George get closer to 20th level, it will become easier for Bob to maintain his +4 enhancement bonus and start the day with a +5 bonus, and doing so will cost Bob no additional gp.

But let's go one final step. Both Bob and George heavily invest in their weapons and raise them to a +10 equivalent. George's +10 sword will cost him 200,000gp. Bob's +10 Psychic sword will cost him 235,000gp, but at it's peak, can function as a +14 weapon. To afford the same thing, George will have to wait until epic levels and shell out inordinate amounts of cash.

Then again, there's no equivalent to the psychic ability in epic under the srd, so it would be up to the DM if and how the Psychic ability automatically progresses in epic, or if some other, separate enhancement would be needed to extend Psychic.

Anyway, pre-epic, Psychic not a bad choice for a psychic warrior if he's willing to invest in his weapon, be careful with his PP expenditure, wait a bit for the rewards.

Plus, there's the coolness factor of a weapon that grows stronger along side you and whose current power parallels yours :)
CrazyGuy
02-11-08, 10:40 PM Actually, Wilders have the 3/4 BAB, same as the Psychic Warrior. I think that the enchantment makes less sense for the PsyWar for the reason you mentioned. I think gish Wilders get the most out of it, especially if they go Slayer PrC

They do? *Checks* Huh. I thought that as full manifesters, they would have 1/2. My bad. I suppose they would get more use out the thing than PsyWars.

High level psion + Psychic Weapon + Defending Weapon quality = free +3-+5 AC a good chunk of the time. With a base of 343, a high level psion has to spend a ton of power points to go to 129 or lower.

Good point-did not think of that.

*Snip long post*

While I considered this corner case, if you read the OP, I was talking about the MIC version of the Psychic quality, which is +2 Enhancment bonus, not just a flat increase. Even if you keep the XPH version, the MIC still caps the toal cost of weapons at 200K, which makes your end-game scenario impossible. And it seems more efficient to do that sort of thing with Metaphysical (gods, I hate spelling things associated with psionics) Weapon/Greater Magic Weapon.
Fireclave
02-11-08, 11:39 PM While I considered this corner case, if you read the OP, I was talking about the MIC version of the Psychic quality, which is +2 Enhancment bonus, not just a flat increase. Even if you keep the XPH version, the MIC still caps the toal cost of weapons at 200K, which makes your end-game scenario impossible. And it seems more efficient to do that sort of thing with Metaphysical (gods, I hate spelling things associated with psionics) Weapon/Greater Magic Weapon.
I missed that you were referring to the MIC (I hate not having the MIC). Since that's the case, the Psychic weapon ability does lose much of its former appeal for psywars at least.
CrimsonDeath
02-12-08, 03:27 AM Well, the MIC version does have the benefit of always being at least a +1 weapon. With the XPH version, you can start with a +1 weapon, add an ability to it, and then appear to have a mere Masterwork weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrazyGuy 02-10-08, 10:53 PM	This has been bothering me for a while now. Am I missing something? Or is the psychic weapon enhancement worthless? As of the MIC, it is a +2 effective enhancement bonus, in return for which you get a variable enhancement bonus depending on the size of your PP pool. Seems pretty obviously intended for Psychic Warriors-Psions and Wilders have better places to drop 18K than weapons they will not be using with their 1/2 BAB, and nobody else has the PP pool to use them. Now here is the problem-in order to gain an advantage to getting a Psychic weapon, as opposed to dumping a +3 into straight enhancement, you need 80 PP. Assuming a 22 Wisdom, a PW will not have this at level 13-as long as he does not manifest powers, or, in more blunt terms, use his primary class feature. So this is an enhancement, that, at higher levels, lets you have a slightly nicer sword than you would have otherwise as long as you voluntarily accept being a fighter with fewer feats and a 3/4 BAB.
jbsaff 02-11-08, 12:13 AM	Actually, Wilders have the 3/4 BAB, same as the Psychic Warrior. I think that the enchantment makes less sense for the PsyWar for the reason you mentioned. I think gish Wilders get the most out of it, especially if they go Slayer PrC
Artector 02-11-08, 12:21 AM	High level psion + Psychic Weapon + Defending Weapon quality = free +3-+5 AC a good chunk of the time. With a base of 343, a high level psion has to spend a ton of power points to go to 129 or lower.
Fireclave 02-11-08, 01:24 AM	While its better for a gish-wilder, the Psychic weapon enhancement can be worth it for a high level psywar. Eventually the cost of the Psychic ability can equal or surpass what you can get with a conventional weapon. Consider this: A +1 Psychic Weapon will cost a total of 37,000gp. For the about same price, you can afford a +4 weapon. Maintaining 80+ PP for a +4 bonus will very be difficult for a psywar, but maintain 30+ PP for a +3 bonus will be much easier for a mid to high level psywar. So let's assume we have two high level psychic warriors at about 15th level. Bob has a +1 Psychic Weapon, while George has a +4 weapon. We'll also assume that Bob is being careful not to Nova his PP so that he'll remain at 30+ PP most of the time. At the beginning of the day, both Bob and George have +4 equivalent weapons. However, as soon as Bob spends even a few of his power points, Bob is knocked down to a +3 equivalent for most of the remaining day. George wins out, but the difference between a +3 and +4 weapon is not too major overall. Now let's assume that Bob and George decide to pimp their weapons even more. It will cost George an additional 22,000gp to add another +1 bonus to his sword. For the same money, Bob can add +2 worth of abilities to his weapon. Bob's sword is now an equivalent of a +5 weapon for most of the day (assuming maintaining enough PP to hold a +3 enhancement) and costs Bob 53,000gp. George's sword is also a +5 weapon, and cost him 50,000gp. George is still ahead, but notice that item prices increase exponentially. Add another +2 worth of bonuses to both their weapons. Bob's sword now starts the day at a +8 equivalent, and maintains a +7 equivalent for most of the day for a cost of 67,000gp. George's sword maintains the same equivalent for a cost of 98,000gp. Cost wise, Bob is starting to win out. When Bob and George get closer to 20th level, it will become easier for Bob to maintain his +4 enhancement bonus and start the day with a +5 bonus, and doing so will cost Bob no additional gp. But let's go one final step. Both Bob and George heavily invest in their weapons and raise them to a +10 equivalent. George's +10 sword will cost him 200,000gp. Bob's +10 Psychic sword will cost him 235,000gp, but at it's peak, can function as a +14 weapon. To afford the same thing, George will have to wait until epic levels and shell out inordinate amounts of cash. Then again, there's no equivalent to the psychic ability in epic under the srd, so it would be up to the DM if and how the Psychic ability automatically progresses in epic, or if some other, separate enhancement would be needed to extend Psychic. Anyway, pre-epic, Psychic not a bad choice for a psychic warrior if he's willing to invest in his weapon, be careful with his PP expenditure, wait a bit for the rewards. Plus, there's the coolness factor of a weapon that grows stronger along side you and whose current power parallels yours :)
CrazyGuy 02-11-08, 10:40 PM	Actually, Wilders have the 3/4 BAB, same as the Psychic Warrior. I think that the enchantment makes less sense for the PsyWar for the reason you mentioned. I think gish Wilders get the most out of it, especially if they go Slayer PrC They do? Checks Huh. I thought that as full manifesters, they would have 1/2. My bad. I suppose they would get more use out the thing than PsyWars. High level psion + Psychic Weapon + Defending Weapon quality = free +3-+5 AC a good chunk of the time. With a base of 343, a high level psion has to spend a ton of power points to go to 129 or lower. Good point-did not think of that. Snip long post While I considered this corner case, if you read the OP, I was talking about the MIC version of the Psychic quality, which is +2 Enhancment bonus, not just a flat increase. Even if you keep the XPH version, the MIC still caps the toal cost of weapons at 200K, which makes your end-game scenario impossible. And it seems more efficient to do that sort of thing with Metaphysical (gods, I hate spelling things associated with psionics) Weapon/Greater Magic Weapon.
Fireclave 02-11-08, 11:39 PM	While I considered this corner case, if you read the OP, I was talking about the MIC version of the Psychic quality, which is +2 Enhancment bonus, not just a flat increase. Even if you keep the XPH version, the MIC still caps the toal cost of weapons at 200K, which makes your end-game scenario impossible. And it seems more efficient to do that sort of thing with Metaphysical (gods, I hate spelling things associated with psionics) Weapon/Greater Magic Weapon. I missed that you were referring to the MIC (I hate not having the MIC). Since that's the case, the Psychic weapon ability does lose much of its former appeal for psywars at least.
CrimsonDeath 02-12-08, 03:27 AM	Well, the MIC version does have the benefit of always being at least a +1 weapon. With the XPH version, you can start with a +1 weapon, add an ability to it, and then appear to have a mere Masterwork weapon.