Psychich warior/ Monk build. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psychich warior/ Monk build. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ElyasRavenwood
02-21-08, 11:51 PM I just have a quick question. I am thinking of making a Psychic warrior and monk combination. What would be the most efficient way to go about this? Would the Fist of Zuoken be the best way? Are there any feats that allow Psychic warrior levels and Monk levels stack for class features? I know that there are feats for the Monk/rogue, the Monk/ paladin and the Monk/ ranger combinations. Is there one for the Psychic Warrior/ Monk combo?
I have access to the Expanded Psionic, Complete Psionic, Hyperconsciousness, and untapped potential. I know this might be better for the character optimization boards, but I thought that the psionic boards might have some better advice. Thanks.
Belabras
02-22-08, 01:20 AM Talashtora (from Secrets of Sarlona) and Warmind make the best Psionic Monk build.

I like Fist of Zuoken, but it just isn't as good.
JulesCARV
02-22-08, 03:44 AM In addition to the Fist of Zuoken or multiclassed monk/psychic warrior possibilities, another option is to just go straight psychic warrior, eschew armor (use inertial armor -- if you get to mid levels, maybe even try to get a monk's belt), and focus on natural attacks such as claws of the beast. You could get a character quite like a monk in feel, even though you wouldn't have any monk levels.

Talashtora (from Secrets of Sarlona) and Warmind make the best Psionic Monk build.

I like Fist of Zuoken, but it just isn't as good.

In some cases, people don't list their available sources, leaving us to guess. In the case of ElyasRavenwood, however, he gave us a list of sources he has access to. Secrets of Sarlona was not on that list. I don't mean to be *****y here, but don't you think that it might have been more helpful to give advice within the parameters on the sources ElyasRavenwood explicitly listed himself as having?
Amaril
02-22-08, 10:57 AM Dreamscarred Press just released a new PDF, Mind Unveiled: Enlightened Monk. It's a psionic monk variant that looks pretty promising. The PDF costs only $250 $2.50, and there is a preview of it that shows the class progression.
Orenmir
02-22-08, 11:03 AM You must convince your DM to allow you to use Secrets of Sarlona so you can access the Tashalatora feat. It is by far the quintessential feat for any Psionic Monk. YOU MUST HAVE IT!!!

If you can't get Tashalatora, FoZ is a viable PrC to look into.

Anyway, what type of combat do you intend on focusing on? The standard Stunning Fist puncher? A grappler?

For a puncher, I concur that you should get into Warmind as soon as you can. You only need a couple levels of Monk (Evasion is too good to pass up), then PsyWar, then Warmind. Getting up to PsyWar level 8 is worth grabbing the sub levels at 5 (Overwhelming Force) and 8 (Focused Attack) from Untapped Potential -- you do have to be a Half-Giant, though (which is well worth it anyway with your build).

For a grappler, I would forgo Warmind. Although Warmind is a great PrC, its abilities don't synergize well with a grappler. Again - 2 levels of Monk, and the rest PsyWar. I would also forgo the sub levels for a grappler.
Orenmir
02-22-08, 11:04 AM Dreamscarred Press just released a new PDF, Mind Unveiled: Enlightened Monk. It's a psionic monk variant that looks pretty promising. The PDF costs only $250, and there is a preview of it that shows the class progression.

$250!!??!?! :OMG!
I think you meant $2.50. ;)
The_Mess
02-22-08, 11:08 AM Dreamscarred Press just released a new PDF, Mind Unveiled: Enlightened Monk. It's a psionic monk variant that looks pretty promising. The PDF costs only $250, and there is a preview of it that shows the class progression.

$250! Wow! The subscription I bought was a better deal than I imagined!

:-)
Amaril
02-22-08, 11:41 AM <mutter>stupid wireless keyboard</mutter>

Fixed. :)
Belabras
02-22-08, 12:37 PM I don't mean to be *****y here, but don't you think that it might have been more helpful to give advice within the parameters on the sources ElyasRavenwood explicitly listed himself as having?

Yes and no. A lot of people like to know what the best combo is outside of their available resources, so they can then aquire what they need. That said, I could have been more helpful and posted about what other combos are good for Psi-Monks from the books he has. Still, no need to be *****y about it :cool:
ElyasRavenwood
02-22-08, 10:19 PM Gentlemen thank you all for your thoughts and advice, which has been most helpful. In addition to the Expanded Psionics handbook, Hyperconsciousness, and Untapped potential, I have the Secrets of Sarlona. I forgot about that book, I have it tucked away on another part of my roll playing bookshelves with the Eberon stuff. Thank you that is another good place to look.
Belabras, thank you, I will go and look up Talashtora, and I will take a look at the Warmind in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Speaking about Secrets of Sarlona, How about the Fists of Dal Quor? That might be a good prestige class. What do you think?
JulesCARV thank you for the idea of just going strait psychic warrior. That might be the simplest way to go. What do you think of the Improved unarmed strike, Superior Unarmed strike ( Tome of Battle Book of Nine Swords P 33) and the Improved Natural Attack (MM I) feat combination? I noticed that the unarmed damage progression that the Superior unarmed strike feat gives you, if you are not a monk, seems to be identical to the unarmed damage schedule of a small monk character. If I then take the Improved Natural Attack feat, I think my unarmed strike damage would match that of a monk of equal level of medium size. Do you think this might work?
Amaril, thank you. This PDF Mind Unveiled: enlightened monk, might be just what I am looking for. By the way in one of the D%D games I am playing in, my character is a grey elf, 3rd lvl Cloistered cleric/ 3rd level Wizard/ 4th level Mystic Theurge of the same name Amaril. Everybody kept calling him Emeril, and asked if he said bam when he cast flaming spheres. I gave up bought ranks in profession chief and called it a day :).
Orenmir, thank you, I have not decided weather to do a puncher or a grappler. Lets see if I understand it. 2 levels of monk, then 3 levels of psy warrior, then warmind? I'll see how it works out on paper. What do you think of forgoing the Flurry of blows class feature and trading it out for the alternate class feature from the PHB 2: Decisive strike (p 51)?
Thanks for your suggestions everyone, I will go look them up.
I do have a large collection of RPG books, however, I always find it useful to ask for the opinions of others, because every single time my nose is pointed to something that has been under it for a long time which I have overlooked. For example in the other campaign I am playing in I have a rogue/swashbuckler. I was planning to go into the duelist prestige class until someone at a convention suggested the Daring Outlaw feat in the complete scoundrel. It made my whole build work. I had the Complete Scoundrel, but had never noticed that feat before. I welcome the suggestions and input of other gamers, who have usually spotted something I haven’t wether they are in one of the books I have or one of the ones I don't, Thanks.

Gentlemen what do you think of this in terms of game balance. What if I simply took the psychic warrior and made a tweak. What if I simply change the Weapons and Armor proficiencies? What if I drop the Simple and Martial Weapon proficiency feats, Drop the light medium and heavy armor proficiency feats, and the shield proficiency.
How about if I replace it with the improved unarmed strike feat, the monk’s Wisdom bonus to ac, the monk’s weapon selection, the monks unarmed damage schedule, Flurry of blows class feature, and the Ki strike class feature? Does this sound balanced or unbalanced? Again thanks for your thoughts.
The_Shaman
02-23-08, 01:42 PM On the last one, I'd rather you didn't. You drop a couple of proficiencies that take 1 level to get back, and get the features of an entire class. Considering that the PW already has a reputation - imo well-deserved - as a balanced class, I don't think it's a good idea.

As for SUS+INA, I'm not sure if it would work, but ask your DM. Your arguments are fairly balanced, but if Tashalatora is in, that's all you need. Warmind is nice, but it's imo most useful when you only have a few or no PW levels - such as a monk/fist of Zuoken. OTOH, some of its features - especially the sweeping blows - can be great for a monk with augmented expansion.

BTW, augmented expansion or any other "real" size increases do stack with INA, right?
Orenmir
02-24-08, 12:18 AM Orenmir, thank you, I have not decided weather to do a puncher or a grappler. Lets see if I understand it. 2 levels of monk, then 3 levels of psy warrior, then warmind? I'll see how it works out on paper. What do you think of forgoing the Flurry of blows class feature and trading it out for the alternate class feature from the PHB 2: Decisive strike (p 51)?

Decisive Strike is a good way to overcome one of the Monks weaknesses: fighting foes with DR. Another way would be to increase your damage dice as much as possible. Personally, I prefer the latter (in tandem with the suggestion below).

Now if you want an even better variant, take a look at Chaos Monk in Dragon Mag #335. Flailing Strike instead of Flurry of Blows. Roll a die to see how many extra attacks you get. At level one: up to 4 attacks/round. At level 15: up to 9 attacks/round. And that without any other enhancements. If you're still worried about foes with DR, grab the feat Water Splitting Stone -- ignore 4 points of DR.
Zappy
02-24-08, 07:45 AM While it's widely chastised Complete Psionic has a prestige class for monks with at least 2 power points. It's called Zerth Cenobite. It's levels stack with monk for unarmed damge + Unarmored AC. It also has a bunch of other cool stuff.
Phelot_Plaguecrafter
02-24-08, 01:55 PM While it's widly chastised Complete Psionic has a prestige class for monks with at least 2 power points. It's called Zerth Cenobite. It's levels stack with monk for unarmed damge + Unarmored AC. It also has a bunch of other cool stuff.

<wildly chastises!!/>
Lycanthromancer
02-24-08, 02:03 PM I thought it was widdly chastised?
Zappy
02-24-08, 02:23 PM Now I'm not sure if I'm mis spelling or mis saying.
I guess in this specific case wildly as in really wild. and widely as in really wide both apply.

P.S. edited my original post to fix it!;)
Lycanthromancer
02-24-08, 02:25 PM And widdly means you oughtta pee on it, burn it, and bury it somewhere that won't cause ecological damage (like on the moon).
starkreality
02-26-08, 04:35 AM I would not recommend Fist of Zuoken to anyone, ever. If I'm not mistaken, Zerth Cenobite gets all the same stuff, and more; if I am mistaken, I do know that I've played both, and the Zerth Cenobite is by far the superior of the two.
The_Shaman
02-27-08, 03:00 PM Bet you a cookie you are, indeed, mistaken?

If you would compare psionic classes, it helps to take into account their manifesting progression, and I would strongly suggest you take the time to do so. The Cenobite has some okay abilities, but not nearly enough to compensate for the its inferiority in pure psionic power. Furthermore, most of the Zerth's abilities can be mimicked by existing powers (time hop, immovability, precognition) so in a way the ZC is simply a less versatile FoZ.

Also, keep in mind that manifesting progression can be improved by other races. With a monk belt and SUS (or tattoo), a monk/PFist/Elocator (or sanctified mind, or slayer) can have the damage of a lvl 20 monk, the manifesting of a lvl 10 PFist, and some pretty badass abilities. And don't start me on PF-based Warminds, although in that PF and ZC are almost equal.
CrimsonDeath
02-27-08, 03:19 PM The main reason I don't like the Zerth Cenobyte is that all their abilities are once or twice per day (much like the Monk), but 3.5 was build on the four-encouter-per-day cycle.
starkreality
02-27-08, 11:57 PM Bet you a cookie you are, indeed, mistaken?

:thinks: come to think of it, i guess there is a separate class list, isn't there? Hmm... Either way, I think I prefer the Cenobite, but I can see your point.
Unfortunately I don't believe I have a cookie to bet.
ElyasRavenwood
03-06-08, 11:13 AM Thank you all for your thoughts. Shaman you have an excellent point about the swapping a few feats for a class feature. We shall see about stacking SUS and INT. Thanks for the suggestions about the chaos monk and the zerth cenobite.

The campaign has started. The DM is using the Ptolas setting. I now have a 1st level monk, called Johan Preston. (Yes a nod to Equilibrium). I initially had mostly 11s, 12, and my highest score was a 17, the DM allowed me to re roll. My stats came out to be Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 13. Great stats. Lets see for feats I picked combat expertise and improved trip. (We briefly joked about taking two-weapon fighting and exotic weapon proficiency dragon pistol). The Dm allowed me to take the Decisive Strike alternate class feature. I also chose Stunning fist as my bonus feat. So my character is off and running.

The rest of the party: war wizard, rogue, fighter, ranger, cleric, and a dusk blade called Jozan. I see there will be some confusion between my character Johan, and Jozan. We decided to have my character be the Clerics body guard. The guy playing the cleric is a great guy and good friend but, unfortunately is not the sharpest knife in the chopping block, so I will be helping him a) stay alive, and B) helping him pick his spells, and nudging him about when to cast a spell, when to turn undead, or when to engage in combat. I do think I would be better my friend for me to stand back and let him make his mistakes and learn. At least as his bodyguard, my character can do his best to keep him alive.

On our first adventure we were hired to clean house. We were hired to clean a ware house out. There is a goblin infestation. I have been plagued by 1,s and 2,s on my die rolls. nothing we can do about that. I would tumble around to a flanking position, and try to use improved trip. With my 1s and 2s there were jokes about my character getting 20s on his tumble check to get into position (someone jokingly asked me where I was keeping my wires) , but then not being able to flip a goblin. ? We had fun.

Do you have any good suggestion on feats to pick? I have the Talashtora feat lined up for 3rd level. The build I am considering tanking 2 levels of monk and then 18 levels of psychic warrior. My initial thoughts are to focus on a) damage in terms of Superior unarmed strike, improved natural attack) I also think focusing on mobility- dodge mobility spring attack and then up the walls might be nice. For emulating monkish stuff, I thought speed of thought would be good. I am eyeing the psionic fist, greater psionic fist, and unavoidable strike. I also find water breaking stone and blind fighting to be good ideas. That’s the problem too many ideas.

How about power selections? I find the body adjustment, empathic transfer, body purification, very tempting. I like the idea of healing myself, and someone else in a pinch particularly if I am going to be a body guard.
I think I should focus. Any thoughts would be appreciated thanks.
hogarth
03-06-08, 11:47 AM Just a suggestion: have you considered Lucid Cenobite from Hyperconscious (not Zerth Cenobite from Complete Psionics)? It basically gives you a similar benefit to the Tashalatora feat (1/2 of psionic levels stack for purposes of monk abilities) and a bunch of other goodies (id strike, lucid thrust, ego slap, SPELL ABSORPTION!, two bonus psionic feats of your choice and some super-eyesight powers). You do lose 4 manifester levels, but those are some pretty nice powers, IMO.

I think something like Monk 3/Psychic Warrior 1/Lucid Cenobite 10 would be quite decent.

EDIT: Monk 3/Ardent 3/Lucid Cenobite 10 would be fine, too; I assume there's some mantle the has Biofeedback.
Zenbu
03-19-08, 02:47 PM I was just about to suggest Lucid Cenobite as well from Hyperconscious. If you build it right, you can get 13 ML (17 with practiced manifester, and just use the advanced tattooing rules on the wizard website to get 8th and 9th level psionics... I'll have to link it later... can't find it right now. Or just be an ardent) and you'll have almost the entire monk speed/flurry of blows/ac/ki strike/unarmed damage progression. You'd still be able to synergize all your psionic buffing abilities with unarmed strikes and what not, even with the ****** (13/13)13/8/3 attacks you'd be getting if you used psion, instead of ardent or PW. Which isn't that much better mind you, but it's a very well rounded class, and the abilities/flavor goes really good with a seer. Well ****, they're all around really good abilities; I'm a big fan of instant crit with 4d8 base unarmed damage (superior unarmed strike/monk belt +INA... to which the class is unquestionably a candidate of) and spell absorption.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElyasRavenwood 02-21-08, 11:51 PM	I just have a quick question. I am thinking of making a Psychic warrior and monk combination. What would be the most efficient way to go about this? Would the Fist of Zuoken be the best way? Are there any feats that allow Psychic warrior levels and Monk levels stack for class features? I know that there are feats for the Monk/rogue, the Monk/ paladin and the Monk/ ranger combinations. Is there one for the Psychic Warrior/ Monk combo? I have access to the Expanded Psionic, Complete Psionic, Hyperconsciousness, and untapped potential. I know this might be better for the character optimization boards, but I thought that the psionic boards might have some better advice. Thanks.
Belabras 02-22-08, 01:20 AM	Talashtora (from Secrets of Sarlona) and Warmind make the best Psionic Monk build. I like Fist of Zuoken, but it just isn't as good.
JulesCARV 02-22-08, 03:44 AM	In addition to the Fist of Zuoken or multiclassed monk/psychic warrior possibilities, another option is to just go straight psychic warrior, eschew armor (use inertial armor -- if you get to mid levels, maybe even try to get a monk's belt), and focus on natural attacks such as claws of the beast. You could get a character quite like a monk in feel, even though you wouldn't have any monk levels. Talashtora (from Secrets of Sarlona) and Warmind make the best Psionic Monk build. I like Fist of Zuoken, but it just isn't as good. In some cases, people don't list their available sources, leaving us to guess. In the case of ElyasRavenwood, however, he gave us a list of sources he has access to. Secrets of Sarlona was not on that list. I don't mean to be *****y here, but don't you think that it might have been more helpful to give advice within the parameters on the sources ElyasRavenwood explicitly listed himself as having?
Amaril 02-22-08, 10:57 AM	Dreamscarred Press just released a new PDF, Mind Unveiled: Enlightened Monk. It's a psionic monk variant that looks pretty promising. The PDF costs only $250 $2.50, and there is a preview of it that shows the class progression.
Orenmir 02-22-08, 11:03 AM	You must convince your DM to allow you to use Secrets of Sarlona so you can access the Tashalatora feat. It is by far the quintessential feat for any Psionic Monk. YOU MUST HAVE IT!!! If you can't get Tashalatora, FoZ is a viable PrC to look into. Anyway, what type of combat do you intend on focusing on? The standard Stunning Fist puncher? A grappler? For a puncher, I concur that you should get into Warmind as soon as you can. You only need a couple levels of Monk (Evasion is too good to pass up), then PsyWar, then Warmind. Getting up to PsyWar level 8 is worth grabbing the sub levels at 5 (Overwhelming Force) and 8 (Focused Attack) from Untapped Potential -- you do have to be a Half-Giant, though (which is well worth it anyway with your build). For a grappler, I would forgo Warmind. Although Warmind is a great PrC, its abilities don't synergize well with a grappler. Again - 2 levels of Monk, and the rest PsyWar. I would also forgo the sub levels for a grappler.
Orenmir 02-22-08, 11:04 AM	Dreamscarred Press just released a new PDF, Mind Unveiled: Enlightened Monk. It's a psionic monk variant that looks pretty promising. The PDF costs only $250, and there is a preview of it that shows the class progression. $250!!??!?! :OMG! I think you meant $2.50. ;)
The_Mess 02-22-08, 11:08 AM	Dreamscarred Press just released a new PDF, Mind Unveiled: Enlightened Monk. It's a psionic monk variant that looks pretty promising. The PDF costs only $250, and there is a preview of it that shows the class progression. $250! Wow! The subscription I bought was a better deal than I imagined! :-)
Amaril 02-22-08, 11:41 AM	<mutter>stupid wireless keyboard</mutter> Fixed. :)
Belabras 02-22-08, 12:37 PM	I don't mean to be ***y here, but don't you think that it might have been more helpful to give advice within the parameters on the sources ElyasRavenwood explicitly listed himself as having? Yes and no. A lot of people like to know what the best combo is outside of their available resources, so they can then aquire what they need. That said, I could have been more helpful and posted about what other combos are good for Psi-Monks from the books he has. Still, no need to be ***y about it :cool:
ElyasRavenwood 02-22-08, 10:19 PM	Gentlemen thank you all for your thoughts and advice, which has been most helpful. In addition to the Expanded Psionics handbook, Hyperconsciousness, and Untapped potential, I have the Secrets of Sarlona. I forgot about that book, I have it tucked away on another part of my roll playing bookshelves with the Eberon stuff. Thank you that is another good place to look. Belabras, thank you, I will go and look up Talashtora, and I will take a look at the Warmind in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Speaking about Secrets of Sarlona, How about the Fists of Dal Quor? That might be a good prestige class. What do you think? JulesCARV thank you for the idea of just going strait psychic warrior. That might be the simplest way to go. What do you think of the Improved unarmed strike, Superior Unarmed strike ( Tome of Battle Book of Nine Swords P 33) and the Improved Natural Attack (MM I) feat combination? I noticed that the unarmed damage progression that the Superior unarmed strike feat gives you, if you are not a monk, seems to be identical to the unarmed damage schedule of a small monk character. If I then take the Improved Natural Attack feat, I think my unarmed strike damage would match that of a monk of equal level of medium size. Do you think this might work? Amaril, thank you. This PDF Mind Unveiled: enlightened monk, might be just what I am looking for. By the way in one of the D%D games I am playing in, my character is a grey elf, 3rd lvl Cloistered cleric/ 3rd level Wizard/ 4th level Mystic Theurge of the same name Amaril. Everybody kept calling him Emeril, and asked if he said bam when he cast flaming spheres. I gave up bought ranks in profession chief and called it a day :). Orenmir, thank you, I have not decided weather to do a puncher or a grappler. Lets see if I understand it. 2 levels of monk, then 3 levels of psy warrior, then warmind? I'll see how it works out on paper. What do you think of forgoing the Flurry of blows class feature and trading it out for the alternate class feature from the PHB 2: Decisive strike (p 51)? Thanks for your suggestions everyone, I will go look them up. I do have a large collection of RPG books, however, I always find it useful to ask for the opinions of others, because every single time my nose is pointed to something that has been under it for a long time which I have overlooked. For example in the other campaign I am playing in I have a rogue/swashbuckler. I was planning to go into the duelist prestige class until someone at a convention suggested the Daring Outlaw feat in the complete scoundrel. It made my whole build work. I had the Complete Scoundrel, but had never noticed that feat before. I welcome the suggestions and input of other gamers, who have usually spotted something I haven’t wether they are in one of the books I have or one of the ones I don't, Thanks. Gentlemen what do you think of this in terms of game balance. What if I simply took the psychic warrior and made a tweak. What if I simply change the Weapons and Armor proficiencies? What if I drop the Simple and Martial Weapon proficiency feats, Drop the light medium and heavy armor proficiency feats, and the shield proficiency. How about if I replace it with the improved unarmed strike feat, the monk’s Wisdom bonus to ac, the monk’s weapon selection, the monks unarmed damage schedule, Flurry of blows class feature, and the Ki strike class feature? Does this sound balanced or unbalanced? Again thanks for your thoughts.
The_Shaman 02-23-08, 01:42 PM	On the last one, I'd rather you didn't. You drop a couple of proficiencies that take 1 level to get back, and get the features of an entire class. Considering that the PW already has a reputation - imo well-deserved - as a balanced class, I don't think it's a good idea. As for SUS+INA, I'm not sure if it would work, but ask your DM. Your arguments are fairly balanced, but if Tashalatora is in, that's all you need. Warmind is nice, but it's imo most useful when you only have a few or no PW levels - such as a monk/fist of Zuoken. OTOH, some of its features - especially the sweeping blows - can be great for a monk with augmented expansion. BTW, augmented expansion or any other "real" size increases do stack with INA, right?
Orenmir 02-24-08, 12:18 AM	Orenmir, thank you, I have not decided weather to do a puncher or a grappler. Lets see if I understand it. 2 levels of monk, then 3 levels of psy warrior, then warmind? I'll see how it works out on paper. What do you think of forgoing the Flurry of blows class feature and trading it out for the alternate class feature from the PHB 2: Decisive strike (p 51)? Decisive Strike is a good way to overcome one of the Monks weaknesses: fighting foes with DR. Another way would be to increase your damage dice as much as possible. Personally, I prefer the latter (in tandem with the suggestion below). Now if you want an even better variant, take a look at Chaos Monk in Dragon Mag #335. Flailing Strike instead of Flurry of Blows. Roll a die to see how many extra attacks you get. At level one: up to 4 attacks/round. At level 15: up to 9 attacks/round. And that without any other enhancements. If you're still worried about foes with DR, grab the feat Water Splitting Stone -- ignore 4 points of DR.
Zappy 02-24-08, 07:45 AM	While it's widely chastised Complete Psionic has a prestige class for monks with at least 2 power points. It's called Zerth Cenobite. It's levels stack with monk for unarmed damge + Unarmored AC. It also has a bunch of other cool stuff.
Phelot_Plaguecrafter 02-24-08, 01:55 PM	While it's widly chastised Complete Psionic has a prestige class for monks with at least 2 power points. It's called Zerth Cenobite. It's levels stack with monk for unarmed damge + Unarmored AC. It also has a bunch of other cool stuff. <wildly chastises!!/>
Lycanthromancer 02-24-08, 02:03 PM	I thought it was widdly chastised?
Zappy 02-24-08, 02:23 PM	Now I'm not sure if I'm mis spelling or mis saying. I guess in this specific case wildly as in really wild. and widely as in really wide both apply. P.S. edited my original post to fix it!;)
Lycanthromancer 02-24-08, 02:25 PM	And widdly means you oughtta pee on it, burn it, and bury it somewhere that won't cause ecological damage (like on the moon).
starkreality 02-26-08, 04:35 AM	I would not recommend Fist of Zuoken to anyone, ever. If I'm not mistaken, Zerth Cenobite gets all the same stuff, and more; if I am mistaken, I do know that I've played both, and the Zerth Cenobite is by far the superior of the two.
The_Shaman 02-27-08, 03:00 PM	Bet you a cookie you are, indeed, mistaken? If you would compare psionic classes, it helps to take into account their manifesting progression, and I would strongly suggest you take the time to do so. The Cenobite has some okay abilities, but not nearly enough to compensate for the its inferiority in pure psionic power. Furthermore, most of the Zerth's abilities can be mimicked by existing powers (time hop, immovability, precognition) so in a way the ZC is simply a less versatile FoZ. Also, keep in mind that manifesting progression can be improved by other races. With a monk belt and SUS (or tattoo), a monk/PFist/Elocator (or sanctified mind, or slayer) can have the damage of a lvl 20 monk, the manifesting of a lvl 10 PFist, and some pretty badass abilities. And don't start me on PF-based Warminds, although in that PF and ZC are almost equal.
CrimsonDeath 02-27-08, 03:19 PM	The main reason I don't like the Zerth Cenobyte is that all their abilities are once or twice per day (much like the Monk), but 3.5 was build on the four-encouter-per-day cycle.
starkreality 02-27-08, 11:57 PM	Bet you a cookie you are, indeed, mistaken? :thinks: come to think of it, i guess there is a separate class list, isn't there? Hmm... Either way, I think I prefer the Cenobite, but I can see your point. Unfortunately I don't believe I have a cookie to bet.
ElyasRavenwood 03-06-08, 11:13 AM	Thank you all for your thoughts. Shaman you have an excellent point about the swapping a few feats for a class feature. We shall see about stacking SUS and INT. Thanks for the suggestions about the chaos monk and the zerth cenobite. The campaign has started. The DM is using the Ptolas setting. I now have a 1st level monk, called Johan Preston. (Yes a nod to Equilibrium). I initially had mostly 11s, 12, and my highest score was a 17, the DM allowed me to re roll. My stats came out to be Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 13. Great stats. Lets see for feats I picked combat expertise and improved trip. (We briefly joked about taking two-weapon fighting and exotic weapon proficiency dragon pistol). The Dm allowed me to take the Decisive Strike alternate class feature. I also chose Stunning fist as my bonus feat. So my character is off and running. The rest of the party: war wizard, rogue, fighter, ranger, cleric, and a dusk blade called Jozan. I see there will be some confusion between my character Johan, and Jozan. We decided to have my character be the Clerics body guard. The guy playing the cleric is a great guy and good friend but, unfortunately is not the sharpest knife in the chopping block, so I will be helping him a) stay alive, and B) helping him pick his spells, and nudging him about when to cast a spell, when to turn undead, or when to engage in combat. I do think I would be better my friend for me to stand back and let him make his mistakes and learn. At least as his bodyguard, my character can do his best to keep him alive. On our first adventure we were hired to clean house. We were hired to clean a ware house out. There is a goblin infestation. I have been plagued by 1,s and 2,s on my die rolls. nothing we can do about that. I would tumble around to a flanking position, and try to use improved trip. With my 1s and 2s there were jokes about my character getting 20s on his tumble check to get into position (someone jokingly asked me where I was keeping my wires) , but then not being able to flip a goblin. ? We had fun. Do you have any good suggestion on feats to pick? I have the Talashtora feat lined up for 3rd level. The build I am considering tanking 2 levels of monk and then 18 levels of psychic warrior. My initial thoughts are to focus on a) damage in terms of Superior unarmed strike, improved natural attack) I also think focusing on mobility- dodge mobility spring attack and then up the walls might be nice. For emulating monkish stuff, I thought speed of thought would be good. I am eyeing the psionic fist, greater psionic fist, and unavoidable strike. I also find water breaking stone and blind fighting to be good ideas. That’s the problem too many ideas. How about power selections? I find the body adjustment, empathic transfer, body purification, very tempting. I like the idea of healing myself, and someone else in a pinch particularly if I am going to be a body guard. I think I should focus. Any thoughts would be appreciated thanks.
hogarth 03-06-08, 11:47 AM	Just a suggestion: have you considered Lucid Cenobite from Hyperconscious (not Zerth Cenobite from Complete Psionics)? It basically gives you a similar benefit to the Tashalatora feat (1/2 of psionic levels stack for purposes of monk abilities) and a bunch of other goodies (id strike, lucid thrust, ego slap, SPELL ABSORPTION!, two bonus psionic feats of your choice and some super-eyesight powers). You do lose 4 manifester levels, but those are some pretty nice powers, IMO. I think something like Monk 3/Psychic Warrior 1/Lucid Cenobite 10 would be quite decent. EDIT: Monk 3/Ardent 3/Lucid Cenobite 10 would be fine, too; I assume there's some mantle the has Biofeedback.
Zenbu 03-19-08, 02:47 PM	I was just about to suggest Lucid Cenobite as well from Hyperconscious. If you build it right, you can get 13 ML (17 with practiced manifester, and just use the advanced tattooing rules on the wizard website to get 8th and 9th level psionics... I'll have to link it later... can't find it right now. Or just be an ardent) and you'll have almost the entire monk speed/flurry of blows/ac/ki strike/unarmed damage progression. You'd still be able to synergize all your psionic buffing abilities with unarmed strikes and what not, even with the **** (13/13)13/8/3 attacks you'd be getting if you used psion, instead of ardent or PW. Which isn't that much better mind you, but it's a very well rounded class, and the abilities/flavor goes really good with a seer. Well **, they're all around really good abilities; I'm a big fan of instant crit with 4d8 base unarmed damage (superior unarmed strike/monk belt +INA... to which the class is unquestionably a candidate of) and spell absorption.