PsyWar/Monk Grappler [Archive] - Wizards Community

PsyWar/Monk Grappler [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Orenmir
08-28-07, 11:03 PM I'm building a Half-Giant Monk/Psychic Warrior grappler. Please let me know what you think of my feat and power choices, as well as the level progression.

class bab feat bonus feat psionic power
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Monk1 0 Earth's Embrace Improved Grapple
2 Monk2 1 Monastic Training
3 PsyWar1 1 Lightning Reflexes Combat Manifesting Grip of Iron
4 Monk3 2
5 PsyWar2 3 Practiced Manifester Expansion
6 PsyWar3 4 Superior Unarmed Strike Inertia Armor
7 Monk4 5
8 PsyWar4 6 Painful Strike
9 Monk5 6 Improved Natural Attack
10 PsyWar5 6 Twin Power Strength of My Enemy
11 PsyWar6 7 Animal Affinity
12 Monk6 8 Stunning Fist Fiery Fist
13 PsyWar7 9 Empathetic Transfer, Hostile
14 Monk7 10
15 PsyWar8 11 Fiery Ki Defense Freezing the Lifeblood Empathetic Feedback
16 Monk8 12
17 PsyWar9 12 Mental Barrier
18 Monk9 12 Stone Monkey
19 PsyWar10 13 Energy Adaptation
20 Monk10 14

Here are some pre-answers to questions that might arise:

Monastic Training allows a Monk to multiclass and continue levels in Monk.

I chose to keep the levels mostly even for flavor as well as the obvious strengths that each attribute. But, I am welcome to hear opinions on why it would be better to focus more levels on one class.

I haven't rolled up stats yet; but, on a 32 point buy they would probably look something like this (the math may be a little off):

Str - 18
Dex - 12
Con - 16
Int - 10
Wis - 17
Cha - 8

Let me know what you think.

Thanks.
sijigs
08-28-07, 11:19 PM Take the tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona.

It'll compensate for him being butt ugly (kidding). :D

PS. and your first power should be expansion. Gotta have the reach ASAP.
InkBlot
08-29-07, 12:35 AM At manifester level one, expansion is useless. It lasts 1 round but it takes a standard action to manifest. By the time you could do anything with your newfound bulk, you've shrunk back down to normal size again.

Taking grip of iron first and expansion second was the right choice. You'll need expansion as you start fighting larger and larger baddies, because it's impossible to grapple things more than two size categories larger than you, but it can't be helped that it sucks at ML 1.

edit: A while back, in this five-year-long game, I was playing a monk/psion focused in grappling. He sucked hardcore. So I was constantly coming up with new builds, in case my DM had a sudden bout of sanity and let go on a rebuilding quest (as per PHBII). Below is an outline of my favorite of those builds:

Monk 4/Crusader 2/Reaping Mauler 2/Fist Of Zuoken 2/Reaping Mauler 3/Fist Of Zuoken 6/Crusader 1

Take Clever Wrestling and Wild Talent by 6th level. Take Practiced Manifester at 9th. The rest of the feats are up to you. Focus on Strength and Wisdom, in that order. Dex is practically irrelevant while you're grappling, and you have plenty of ways to boost your AC. Con is nice, but Crusaders and Reaping Maulers have d10 hit dice, Crusaders don't die, and Improved Toughness is easy to pick up. The Crusader levels can be replaced by any full-BAB class -- I only put them in because my character took a level of Crusader at 20th.

Clever Wrestling and the Reaping Mauler are both from Complete Warrior. Earth's Embrace is another good wrestling feat from Complete Warrior. It deals 1d12 damage to your enemy each round you have him pinned, helping to offset the lost damage from using one of your attacks to keep your foe pinned. Superior Unarmed Strike is a good feat for this character from Tome Of Battle, but it can be replaced by a Monk's belt. Improved Natural Attack is another good feat, and I shouldn't have to say why.

edit II: Startling new and relevant information has suddenly come to my attention (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13589289&postcount=8). Don't take Reaping Mauler without first asking your DM if becoming enlarged will turn off all your class features.
Orenmir
08-29-07, 10:36 AM Take the tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona.

That's a book I'm unfamiliar with. Can you give me an abbreviated description of the feat?

edit: A while back, in this five-year-long game, I was playing a monk/psion focused in grappling. He sucked hardcore. So I was constantly coming up with new builds, in case my DM had a sudden bout of sanity and let go on a rebuilding quest (as per PHBII). Below is an outline of my favorite of those builds:

Monk 4/Crusader 2/Reaping Mauler 2/Fist Of Zuoken 2/Reaping Mauler 3/Fist Of Zuoken 6/Crusader 1

Take Clever Wrestling and Wild Talent by 6th level. Take Practiced Manifester at 9th. The rest of the feats are up to you. Focus on Strength and Wisdom, in that order. Dex is practically irrelevant while you're grappling, and you have plenty of ways to boost your AC. Con is nice, but Crusaders and Reaping Maulers have d10 hit dice, Crusaders don't die, and Improved Toughness is easy to pick up. The Crusader levels can be replaced by any full-BAB class -- I only put them in because my character took a level of Crusader at 20th.

That's a lot to digest; but, I will look into those classes. Thanks.

Let me know what made your Monk/Psion grappler suck. I don't want to fall into the same outcome.
InkBlot
08-29-07, 11:50 AM Oh, it would be pretty hard to fall into the same problems as Bob (my character). And don't laugh at the name. He was my first character ever. OK, second, but my first only lasted one session so he doesn't count.

1. Monk 14/Psion 5. This is not a good build.

2. Vow Of Poverty. No, not the feat. My character took a vow of poverty, divested himself of all worldly possessions, and ran around beating up monsters. Three levels later, at 18th level, I got the actual feat. Even after taking the vow, he still couldn't get any magic items of enlarge person, and there was nobody in the party who could cast enlarge person on him.

3. Psion power list. The psion power list is not good for grapplers and melee fighters. I would have killed for grip of iron, expansion, and strength of my enemy.

4. Powering up. At the start of every battle, he could spend two or three rounds just manifesting self-buff powers. Everybody else would jump right into the fray. By the time Bob was ready the fight would be half-over. After getting Vow Of Poverty (the feat) this was eased a lot, but then there were only two more levels left.

5. Power resistance. Even after getting Practiced Manifester and using electricity powers for the +2, a manifester level of 11 wasn't enough to pierce the power/spell resistance of monsters we were fighting. I'd like to think the DM put in high-SR monsters because we had a sorcerer and a cleric in the party, but they either used SR:No spells or waded into melee.

6. Base attack bonus. Bob had a BAB of +12 at 19th level, +13 at 20th. If I had gone Monk 12/Psywar8, he would have had BAB +15.

7. Big bads. Most of the enemies we fought were enormous monsters. It was rare that we saw anything smaller than huge. Since it's impossible to grapple anything two or more size categories larger than you, Bob was hosed.

8. Dungeon master. The dungeon master was a pedantic rules lawyer who stopped enjoying the game sometime shortly after we hit 15th level. He would misremember another rule, or come up with another houserule, each week. Then next week he'd forget all about it. One time he insisted that characters provoked attacks of opportunity for each and every threatened square they walked through, and that we had to roll a new tumble check for each square, with a cummulative -2. Another time he got upset at Bob and the other monk in the party jumping over rough terrain, so he ruled that jumping was a seperate move action (meanwhile, everybody but the monks had a way to fly). Luckily, he left the grappling rules to me, and I always kept a print-out of Rules Of The Game: All About Grappling (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050301a) tucked between pages 156 and 157 of my Player's Handbook.

9. The rest of the party. They killed things so good, that I often had nothing to do. I wasn't the only person who felt that way, but I was the only person who felt that way and stuck around. Perhaps it was because I hoped things would get better, or perhaps it was because I still had a good enough time just hanging out, but I feel -- deep down in my heart -- that it was because I was hosting the game at my house and nobody else had a big enough living room.

10. My own stupidity. When I made Bob, I had no clue about any of the rules. My friends helped me, but 3.5 had just come out and they didn't have a wonderful grasp of the rules either (although certainly more than I did). Up until about when we hit 15th level, I'd keep forgetting to use Stunning Fist or Improved Trip, and other things Bob could do. It might not have made a huge difference, but it would have helped to feel like I had options besides "five foot step and flurry of blows."
sijigs
08-29-07, 05:59 PM At manifester level one, expansion is useless. It lasts 1 round but it takes a standard action to manifest. By the time you could do anything with your newfound bulk, you've shrunk back down to normal size again.

Point.

Can you give me an abbreviated description of the feat?

Tashalatora Feat
Your levels in the psionic class you selected for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks and unarmed damage from the monk class.
zuul88
08-29-07, 08:31 PM In Expansions defense the duration is wrong. It "should be 1 min/lvl" because the augment is 10 mins/lvl. Errata has been needed for XPH and Complete Psionic shouldnt have been used to correct problems that didnt exist while not Helping Any Problem that does. But TOB and Complete Scoundrel have been the only good books for a while. Now we know why...............4th ed. WotC will pay the price by losing more customers then it gains from this move but that rant really belongs in a different thread.

Monk 6/Psywar 10/PrC that advances manifesting class with the Talsohrna feat plus monks belt will cover all the bases. Oh and use either Skill Focus or Focused Skill User instead of Combat Manifestation. The first 2 cover way more bases while the latter is only good for combat(It is a pre-req for the Aburj. Champ. though which is a full BAB/full Manifesting class that can adapted to psionics)
Orenmir
08-30-07, 10:43 AM Tashalatora Feat
Your levels in the psionic class you selected for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks and unarmed damage from the monk class.

Yeah, I gotta get that. Do you know what the prereqs are?

Monk 6/Psywar 10/PrC that advances manifesting class with the Talsohrna feat plus monks belt will cover all the bases.

With that build, Tashalatora won't start stacking until level 17. I'd rather get it started earlier.

Oh and use either Skill Focus or Focused Skill User instead of Combat Manifestation. The first 2 cover way more bases while the latter is only good for combat(It is a pre-req for the Aburj. Champ. though which is a full BAB/full Manifesting class that can adapted to psionics)

What book do I find Focused Skill User? How is it different than Skill Focus?
The_Shaman
08-30-07, 02:28 PM Well, monk 6/PW 10 with tashalatora for PW stacks both classes as they go, so you get your greater flurry at monk6/PW5, etc. Although, TBH, I'm leaning towards suggesting Monk 6/PW8 (tashalatora or not)/Sanctified Mind 6. It's less good in grapples, but imo can be more versatile. Monk6/PW 14 isn't half bad, either. I think Tashalatora required a feat called monastic training which allowed you free multiclassing of monk and 1 psionic class (urgh). Keep in mind I don't have SoS, so it's all hearsay.

Anyway, what about Expanded knowledge (metamorphosis)? It's cheezy to a point, but it can help a lot in a grapple imo. Is there a ruling on whether metamorphosed shapes can be increased with expansion?
InkBlot
08-30-07, 02:35 PM What book do I find Focused Skill User? How is it different than Skill Focus?
Focused Skill User is in Complete Psionics. It gives you a +2 bonus to any three skills you chose, so long as you're focused. You have to chose what skills it applies to when you take the feat.
Nom
08-30-07, 07:37 PM This may be a silly question, but if you are looking Mnk10/PsyWar10, why not go Mnk10/Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) 10 instead? You'll end up with more potent powers, more power points, better saves, more skills, and full monk damage, AC and speed bonuses. You lose a couple of psionic feats, a few hp, and some armour and weapon profs that you won't use anyway.
Orenmir
08-30-07, 11:08 PM This may be a silly question, but if you are looking Mnk10/PsyWar10, why not go Mnk10/Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) 10 instead? You'll end up with more potent powers, more power points, better saves, more skills, and full monk damage, AC and speed bonuses. You lose a couple of psionic feats, a few hp, and some armour and weapon profs that you won't use anyway.

With Tashalatora, it seems like there's no need to go with Psionic Fist.

My build has gone through some tweaks. Here's a look at the latest:

class bab feat bonus feat power
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 ChaosMonk1 0 Earth's Embrace Improved Grapple
2 ChaosMonk2 1 Monastic Training
3 PsyWar1 1 Tashalatora (PsyWar) Combat Manifesting 1-Grip of Iron
4 Barbarian1 2
5 PsyWar2 3 Practiced Manifester 1-Expansion
6 PsyWar3 4 Superior Unarmed Strike 1-Inertia Armor
7 PsyWar4 5 2-Painful Strike
8 PsyWar5 5 Twin Power 2-Strength of My Enemy
9 PsyWar6 6 Improved Natural Attack 2-Animal Affinity
10 PsyWar7 7 3-Empathetic Transfer, Hostile
11 PsyWar8 8 Stunning Fist 3-Empathetic Feedback
12 PsyWar9 8 Fiery Fist 3-Mental Barrier
13 PsyWar10 9 4-Energy Adaptation
14 PsyWar11 10 Fiery Ki Defense 4-Dimension Door, Psionic
15 PsyWar12 11 Freezing the Lifeblood 4-Inertial Barrier
16 PsyWar13 11 5-Psychofeedback
17 PsyWar14 12 Ki Blast 5-Exhalation of the Black Dragon(3)
18 PsyWar15 13 Stone Monkey 5-Body Adjustment(2)
19 PsyWar16 14 6-Breath of the Black Dragon
20 PsyWar17 14 ??? 6-Form of Doom
chicgeek
08-31-07, 03:30 PM I know you're going with a grappler, but I'd like to point out that combining Half-Giant's Powerful Build with a quarterstaff with a permanent Shileleigh (or however you spell it) and Expansion on top will let your Flurry with 2d10+str damage. This would be nice supplement to your regular attacks.
Orenmir
08-31-07, 03:36 PM IShileleigh

What is that?
chicgeek
08-31-07, 03:53 PM Shillelagh is a 1st Level Druid spell that adds +1 attack and damage to a non-magical quarterstaff, but most notably it increases the base damage of the staff as if it were 2 size levels larger. So from 1d6 to 1d8 to 2d6, base. With Half Giant, you can wield a large staff for a base of 3d6, then with Expansion to 4d6 and with augmentation, you can get up to 2d10. Not bad for a 4K investment.
Lycanthromancer
08-31-07, 03:56 PM Druid spell in the PHB.

[edit] Beaten to the punch. As it were.
chicgeek
08-31-07, 04:06 PM You can also try Monk 2 / Paladin 4 / Warmind 10 and then finish off with either more Monk or Paladin. You'll end up with a tremendous slough of Ex and Su abilities (like Evasion, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Lay on Hands, Turn Undead and Divine Grace--and be sure to throw on a Cloak of Charisma--not to mention Enduring Body, all the Chains, and even DR from Enduring Body) and you can walk around with that telephone pole as a weapon. Giant + Shillelagh + Flurry of Blows + Sweeping Strike = Core Rules Goudaness!

The only problem is sticking with the Lawful Good alignment.

Edit: And if you take Practiced Manifester (feat in CP) and you'll be ML 14.
WyvernSlayer
09-07-07, 02:16 PM Human with Jotunbrud is usually a good start, from Races of Faerun.

There is a variant of monk in Unearthed Arcana that lets you gain Improved Trip for a 2nd level monk feat.

Tashalatora for the win.

Don't invest in things that need stunning fist as a req, you will have very few of these *like Freezing the Lifeblood*.

*note* 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6 and so on are the values for damage scaling, if you're interested in that Shillelagh thing.

Hope this helps 8).
CrimsonDeath
09-07-07, 02:20 PM Monk 4/Crusader 2/Reaping Mauler 2/Fist Of Zuoken 2/Reaping Mauler 3/Fist Of Zuoken 6/Crusader 1
I thought Reaping Mauler was a trap...

Don't take Reaping Mauler without first asking your DM if becoming enlarged will turn off all your class features.
Since being larger than Medium turns off Clever Wrestling, it ought to.
InkBlot
09-07-07, 03:39 PM Yeah. It's a trap. (http://macrochan.org/source/W/V/WVSY2RHUNMCQILQZWDEI2UKMYB7FRISJ.jpg) Although it would be good with a simple houserule -- make Improved Grapple the prerequisite and Clever Wrestling the bonus feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Orenmir 08-28-07, 11:03 PM	I'm building a Half-Giant Monk/Psychic Warrior grappler. Please let me know what you think of my feat and power choices, as well as the level progression. class bab feat bonus feat psionic power ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 Monk1 0 Earth's Embrace Improved Grapple 2 Monk2 1 Monastic Training 3 PsyWar1 1 Lightning Reflexes Combat Manifesting Grip of Iron 4 Monk3 2 5 PsyWar2 3 Practiced Manifester Expansion 6 PsyWar3 4 Superior Unarmed Strike Inertia Armor 7 Monk4 5 8 PsyWar4 6 Painful Strike 9 Monk5 6 Improved Natural Attack 10 PsyWar5 6 Twin Power Strength of My Enemy 11 PsyWar6 7 Animal Affinity 12 Monk6 8 Stunning Fist Fiery Fist 13 PsyWar7 9 Empathetic Transfer, Hostile 14 Monk7 10 15 PsyWar8 11 Fiery Ki Defense Freezing the Lifeblood Empathetic Feedback 16 Monk8 12 17 PsyWar9 12 Mental Barrier 18 Monk9 12 Stone Monkey 19 PsyWar10 13 Energy Adaptation 20 Monk10 14 Here are some pre-answers to questions that might arise: Monastic Training allows a Monk to multiclass and continue levels in Monk. I chose to keep the levels mostly even for flavor as well as the obvious strengths that each attribute. But, I am welcome to hear opinions on why it would be better to focus more levels on one class. I haven't rolled up stats yet; but, on a 32 point buy they would probably look something like this (the math may be a little off): Str - 18 Dex - 12 Con - 16 Int - 10 Wis - 17 Cha - 8 Let me know what you think. Thanks.
sijigs 08-28-07, 11:19 PM	Take the tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona. It'll compensate for him being butt ugly (kidding). :D PS. and your first power should be expansion. Gotta have the reach ASAP.
InkBlot 08-29-07, 12:35 AM	At manifester level one, expansion is useless. It lasts 1 round but it takes a standard action to manifest. By the time you could do anything with your newfound bulk, you've shrunk back down to normal size again. Taking grip of iron first and expansion second was the right choice. You'll need expansion as you start fighting larger and larger baddies, because it's impossible to grapple things more than two size categories larger than you, but it can't be helped that it sucks at ML 1. edit: A while back, in this five-year-long game, I was playing a monk/psion focused in grappling. He sucked hardcore. So I was constantly coming up with new builds, in case my DM had a sudden bout of sanity and let go on a rebuilding quest (as per PHBII). Below is an outline of my favorite of those builds: Monk 4/Crusader 2/Reaping Mauler 2/Fist Of Zuoken 2/Reaping Mauler 3/Fist Of Zuoken 6/Crusader 1 Take Clever Wrestling and Wild Talent by 6th level. Take Practiced Manifester at 9th. The rest of the feats are up to you. Focus on Strength and Wisdom, in that order. Dex is practically irrelevant while you're grappling, and you have plenty of ways to boost your AC. Con is nice, but Crusaders and Reaping Maulers have d10 hit dice, Crusaders don't die, and Improved Toughness is easy to pick up. The Crusader levels can be replaced by any full-BAB class -- I only put them in because my character took a level of Crusader at 20th. Clever Wrestling and the Reaping Mauler are both from Complete Warrior. Earth's Embrace is another good wrestling feat from Complete Warrior. It deals 1d12 damage to your enemy each round you have him pinned, helping to offset the lost damage from using one of your attacks to keep your foe pinned. Superior Unarmed Strike is a good feat for this character from Tome Of Battle, but it can be replaced by a Monk's belt. Improved Natural Attack is another good feat, and I shouldn't have to say why. edit II: Startling new and relevant information has suddenly come to my attention (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13589289&postcount=8). Don't take Reaping Mauler without first asking your DM if becoming enlarged will turn off all your class features.
Orenmir 08-29-07, 10:36 AM	Take the tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona. That's a book I'm unfamiliar with. Can you give me an abbreviated description of the feat? edit: A while back, in this five-year-long game, I was playing a monk/psion focused in grappling. He sucked hardcore. So I was constantly coming up with new builds, in case my DM had a sudden bout of sanity and let go on a rebuilding quest (as per PHBII). Below is an outline of my favorite of those builds: Monk 4/Crusader 2/Reaping Mauler 2/Fist Of Zuoken 2/Reaping Mauler 3/Fist Of Zuoken 6/Crusader 1 Take Clever Wrestling and Wild Talent by 6th level. Take Practiced Manifester at 9th. The rest of the feats are up to you. Focus on Strength and Wisdom, in that order. Dex is practically irrelevant while you're grappling, and you have plenty of ways to boost your AC. Con is nice, but Crusaders and Reaping Maulers have d10 hit dice, Crusaders don't die, and Improved Toughness is easy to pick up. The Crusader levels can be replaced by any full-BAB class -- I only put them in because my character took a level of Crusader at 20th. That's a lot to digest; but, I will look into those classes. Thanks. Let me know what made your Monk/Psion grappler suck. I don't want to fall into the same outcome.
InkBlot 08-29-07, 11:50 AM	Oh, it would be pretty hard to fall into the same problems as Bob (my character). And don't laugh at the name. He was my first character ever. OK, second, but my first only lasted one session so he doesn't count. 1. Monk 14/Psion 5. This is not a good build. 2. Vow Of Poverty. No, not the feat. My character took a vow of poverty, divested himself of all worldly possessions, and ran around beating up monsters. Three levels later, at 18th level, I got the actual feat. Even after taking the vow, he still couldn't get any magic items of enlarge person, and there was nobody in the party who could cast enlarge person on him. 3. Psion power list. The psion power list is not good for grapplers and melee fighters. I would have killed for grip of iron, expansion, and strength of my enemy. 4. Powering up. At the start of every battle, he could spend two or three rounds just manifesting self-buff powers. Everybody else would jump right into the fray. By the time Bob was ready the fight would be half-over. After getting Vow Of Poverty (the feat) this was eased a lot, but then there were only two more levels left. 5. Power resistance. Even after getting Practiced Manifester and using electricity powers for the +2, a manifester level of 11 wasn't enough to pierce the power/spell resistance of monsters we were fighting. I'd like to think the DM put in high-SR monsters because we had a sorcerer and a cleric in the party, but they either used SR:No spells or waded into melee. 6. Base attack bonus. Bob had a BAB of +12 at 19th level, +13 at 20th. If I had gone Monk 12/Psywar8, he would have had BAB +15. 7. Big bads. Most of the enemies we fought were enormous monsters. It was rare that we saw anything smaller than huge. Since it's impossible to grapple anything two or more size categories larger than you, Bob was hosed. 8. Dungeon master. The dungeon master was a pedantic rules lawyer who stopped enjoying the game sometime shortly after we hit 15th level. He would misremember another rule, or come up with another houserule, each week. Then next week he'd forget all about it. One time he insisted that characters provoked attacks of opportunity for each and every threatened square they walked through, and that we had to roll a new tumble check for each square, with a cummulative -2. Another time he got upset at Bob and the other monk in the party jumping over rough terrain, so he ruled that jumping was a seperate move action (meanwhile, everybody but the monks had a way to fly). Luckily, he left the grappling rules to me, and I always kept a print-out of Rules Of The Game: All About Grappling (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050301a) tucked between pages 156 and 157 of my Player's Handbook. 9. The rest of the party. They killed things so good, that I often had nothing to do. I wasn't the only person who felt that way, but I was the only person who felt that way and stuck around. Perhaps it was because I hoped things would get better, or perhaps it was because I still had a good enough time just hanging out, but I feel -- deep down in my heart -- that it was because I was hosting the game at my house and nobody else had a big enough living room. 10. My own stupidity. When I made Bob, I had no clue about any of the rules. My friends helped me, but 3.5 had just come out and they didn't have a wonderful grasp of the rules either (although certainly more than I did). Up until about when we hit 15th level, I'd keep forgetting to use Stunning Fist or Improved Trip, and other things Bob could do. It might not have made a huge difference, but it would have helped to feel like I had options besides "five foot step and flurry of blows."
sijigs 08-29-07, 05:59 PM	At manifester level one, expansion is useless. It lasts 1 round but it takes a standard action to manifest. By the time you could do anything with your newfound bulk, you've shrunk back down to normal size again. Point. Can you give me an abbreviated description of the feat? Tashalatora Feat Your levels in the psionic class you selected for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks and unarmed damage from the monk class.
zuul88 08-29-07, 08:31 PM	In Expansions defense the duration is wrong. It "should be 1 min/lvl" because the augment is 10 mins/lvl. Errata has been needed for XPH and Complete Psionic shouldnt have been used to correct problems that didnt exist while not Helping Any Problem that does. But TOB and Complete Scoundrel have been the only good books for a while. Now we know why...............4th ed. WotC will pay the price by losing more customers then it gains from this move but that rant really belongs in a different thread. Monk 6/Psywar 10/PrC that advances manifesting class with the Talsohrna feat plus monks belt will cover all the bases. Oh and use either Skill Focus or Focused Skill User instead of Combat Manifestation. The first 2 cover way more bases while the latter is only good for combat(It is a pre-req for the Aburj. Champ. though which is a full BAB/full Manifesting class that can adapted to psionics)
Orenmir 08-30-07, 10:43 AM	Tashalatora Feat Your levels in the psionic class you selected for Monastic Training stack with your monk levels to determine your AC bonus, flurry of blows attacks and unarmed damage from the monk class. Yeah, I gotta get that. Do you know what the prereqs are? Monk 6/Psywar 10/PrC that advances manifesting class with the Talsohrna feat plus monks belt will cover all the bases. With that build, Tashalatora won't start stacking until level 17. I'd rather get it started earlier. Oh and use either Skill Focus or Focused Skill User instead of Combat Manifestation. The first 2 cover way more bases while the latter is only good for combat(It is a pre-req for the Aburj. Champ. though which is a full BAB/full Manifesting class that can adapted to psionics) What book do I find Focused Skill User? How is it different than Skill Focus?
The_Shaman 08-30-07, 02:28 PM	Well, monk 6/PW 10 with tashalatora for PW stacks both classes as they go, so you get your greater flurry at monk6/PW5, etc. Although, TBH, I'm leaning towards suggesting Monk 6/PW8 (tashalatora or not)/Sanctified Mind 6. It's less good in grapples, but imo can be more versatile. Monk6/PW 14 isn't half bad, either. I think Tashalatora required a feat called monastic training which allowed you free multiclassing of monk and 1 psionic class (urgh). Keep in mind I don't have SoS, so it's all hearsay. Anyway, what about Expanded knowledge (metamorphosis)? It's cheezy to a point, but it can help a lot in a grapple imo. Is there a ruling on whether metamorphosed shapes can be increased with expansion?
InkBlot 08-30-07, 02:35 PM	What book do I find Focused Skill User? How is it different than Skill Focus? Focused Skill User is in Complete Psionics. It gives you a +2 bonus to any three skills you chose, so long as you're focused. You have to chose what skills it applies to when you take the feat.
Nom 08-30-07, 07:37 PM	This may be a silly question, but if you are looking Mnk10/PsyWar10, why not go Mnk10/Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) 10 instead? You'll end up with more potent powers, more power points, better saves, more skills, and full monk damage, AC and speed bonuses. You lose a couple of psionic feats, a few hp, and some armour and weapon profs that you won't use anyway.
Orenmir 08-30-07, 11:08 PM	This may be a silly question, but if you are looking Mnk10/PsyWar10, why not go Mnk10/Psionic Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionicFist.htm) 10 instead? You'll end up with more potent powers, more power points, better saves, more skills, and full monk damage, AC and speed bonuses. You lose a couple of psionic feats, a few hp, and some armour and weapon profs that you won't use anyway. With Tashalatora, it seems like there's no need to go with Psionic Fist. My build has gone through some tweaks. Here's a look at the latest: class bab feat bonus feat power --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 ChaosMonk1 0 Earth's Embrace Improved Grapple 2 ChaosMonk2 1 Monastic Training 3 PsyWar1 1 Tashalatora (PsyWar) Combat Manifesting 1-Grip of Iron 4 Barbarian1 2 5 PsyWar2 3 Practiced Manifester 1-Expansion 6 PsyWar3 4 Superior Unarmed Strike 1-Inertia Armor 7 PsyWar4 5 2-Painful Strike 8 PsyWar5 5 Twin Power 2-Strength of My Enemy 9 PsyWar6 6 Improved Natural Attack 2-Animal Affinity 10 PsyWar7 7 3-Empathetic Transfer, Hostile 11 PsyWar8 8 Stunning Fist 3-Empathetic Feedback 12 PsyWar9 8 Fiery Fist 3-Mental Barrier 13 PsyWar10 9 4-Energy Adaptation 14 PsyWar11 10 Fiery Ki Defense 4-Dimension Door, Psionic 15 PsyWar12 11 Freezing the Lifeblood 4-Inertial Barrier 16 PsyWar13 11 5-Psychofeedback 17 PsyWar14 12 Ki Blast 5-Exhalation of the Black Dragon(3) 18 PsyWar15 13 Stone Monkey 5-Body Adjustment(2) 19 PsyWar16 14 6-Breath of the Black Dragon 20 PsyWar17 14 ??? 6-Form of Doom
chicgeek 08-31-07, 03:30 PM	I know you're going with a grappler, but I'd like to point out that combining Half-Giant's Powerful Build with a quarterstaff with a permanent Shileleigh (or however you spell it) and Expansion on top will let your Flurry with 2d10+str damage. This would be nice supplement to your regular attacks.
Orenmir 08-31-07, 03:36 PM	IShileleigh What is that?
chicgeek 08-31-07, 03:53 PM	Shillelagh is a 1st Level Druid spell that adds +1 attack and damage to a non-magical quarterstaff, but most notably it increases the base damage of the staff as if it were 2 size levels larger. So from 1d6 to 1d8 to 2d6, base. With Half Giant, you can wield a large staff for a base of 3d6, then with Expansion to 4d6 and with augmentation, you can get up to 2d10. Not bad for a 4K investment.
Lycanthromancer 08-31-07, 03:56 PM	Druid spell in the PHB. [edit] Beaten to the punch. As it were.
chicgeek 08-31-07, 04:06 PM	You can also try Monk 2 / Paladin 4 / Warmind 10 and then finish off with either more Monk or Paladin. You'll end up with a tremendous slough of Ex and Su abilities (like Evasion, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Lay on Hands, Turn Undead and Divine Grace--and be sure to throw on a Cloak of Charisma--not to mention Enduring Body, all the Chains, and even DR from Enduring Body) and you can walk around with that telephone pole as a weapon. Giant + Shillelagh + Flurry of Blows + Sweeping Strike = Core Rules Goudaness! The only problem is sticking with the Lawful Good alignment. Edit: And if you take Practiced Manifester (feat in CP) and you'll be ML 14.
WyvernSlayer 09-07-07, 02:16 PM	Human with Jotunbrud is usually a good start, from Races of Faerun. There is a variant of monk in Unearthed Arcana that lets you gain Improved Trip for a 2nd level monk feat. Tashalatora for the win. Don't invest in things that need stunning fist as a req, you will have very few of these like Freezing the Lifeblood. note 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6 and so on are the values for damage scaling, if you're interested in that Shillelagh thing. Hope this helps 8).
CrimsonDeath 09-07-07, 02:20 PM	Monk 4/Crusader 2/Reaping Mauler 2/Fist Of Zuoken 2/Reaping Mauler 3/Fist Of Zuoken 6/Crusader 1 I thought Reaping Mauler was a trap... Don't take Reaping Mauler without first asking your DM if becoming enlarged will turn off all your class features. Since being larger than Medium turns off Clever Wrestling, it ought to.
InkBlot 09-07-07, 03:39 PM	Yeah. It's a trap. (http://macrochan.org/source/W/V/WVSY2RHUNMCQILQZWDEI2UKMYB7FRISJ.jpg) Although it would be good with a simple houserule -- make Improved Grapple the prerequisite and Clever Wrestling the bonus feat.