Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sickseelah 09-06-07, 09:27 AM	Ok so our Dm is letting us start off at level 3 and generally, our sessions end around the time we hit level 12-15. the type of monk/psywar i'm trying ot build is a tripping/flurry with a bunch of dmg bonuses char. Any suggestions on how i should develop it from scratch? (P.S, I plan to take vow of poverty since we aren't likely to reach a high level) Race suggestions would be nice to. Btw I am not allowed to use books such as oriental adventures.
Orenmir 09-06-07, 09:42 AM	First, it's always helpful to include as much info as you can when asking for help with a build. The more you give the forum, the more the forum can help you. With the info given, I would suggest 2 levels of monk, and the rest PsyWar. Take the Tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona so you can continue FoB, damage, and AC bonuses into PsyWar. Play a Half-Giant. PsyWar is his favored class, so you won't suffer XP penalties. Plus, powerful build will help with tripping. Obviously, focus on Strength and Wisdom. In what order depends on flavor. For more damage, be sure to grab Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack. Both will essentially upgrade your unarmed attack to the next size up. See if your DM will let the Half-Giant's Powerful Build also advance it one category. Obviously, there are plenty of powers that will boost damage -- Dissipating Touch, Dissolving Touch, Hammer are some early ones. Expansion will help out with tripping.
chicgeek 09-06-07, 01:46 PM	Something I've always loved is Half-Giant's Powerful Build, with Expansion, with a quarterstaff with a perm shillelagh (about 4K) and the monk's Flurry of Blows. You'll be flurrying a telephone pole for 3d6+str with every hit; and when you get to Expand two sizes, the damage becomes 2d10.
InkBlot 09-06-07, 02:26 PM	The Half Giant's level adjustment would be painful at level three. You would have only one level of Psychic Warrior and one level of Monk. That gives you no Base Attack Bonus, no base power points, you can't augment any of your powers, and you only have a single power known. Half Giant does give a lot of bonuses, but you're going to feel the sting of that level adjustment. Even a Wizard has a better BAB than a HalfGiant Monk1/Psywar1. I would go Monk1/Psywar2. This gives you two fighter/psionic bonus feats to make it easy to pick up Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. Expansion Will last two rounds, and you'll have many more power points to manifest it with (for Wis 16-18 you'll have 3 more power points). You'll also have a second power, so you won't be so much of a one-trick pony (unless you pick stomp). If you have access to Complete Psionics, you should take Practiced Manifester. Perhaps not right away, but you should if you add more non-Psychic-Warrior levels. Don't use unarmed strikes. Unarmed strikes, even a monk's unarmed strike, suck. Use a masterwork kama. It deals as much damage as your unarmed strike (1d6) but it has a better chance to hit (+1 for being masterwork) and if you fail to trip somebody you can drop it to avoid being counter-tripped. Later, when your unarmed strikes become 1d8, you can get your kama enchanted to +1 atk/damage, so they'll deal the same average damage but will still have a better chance to hit. When your unarmed strikes reach 1d10, you can get a +1 flaming kama, which deals several points more damage than your unarmed strike and has a better chance to hit - or a +2 kama which deals about as much as your unarmed strike but has a much much better chance to hit. This goes on, and the unarmed strike never catches up to what the kinds of magic weapons you can afford in any game following the DMG wealth guidelines.
GawainBS 09-07-07, 10:04 AM	Unless you make use of all the "Claw" powers in the XPH and/or a Amulet of Mighty Fists.
dman11235 09-07-07, 10:59 AM	And then you use an unarmed strike with an amulet of natural attacks (SS). Then the unarmed strike greatly out performs the kama. Unless you use a scorpion kama (MiC) to deal unarmed damage with it.
Orenmir 09-07-07, 11:50 AM	Don't forget Superior Unarmed Strike.
InkBlot 09-07-07, 12:11 PM	Unless you make use of all the "Claw" powers in the XPH and/or a Amulet of Mighty Fists. The claw powers in the XPH only affect claws. You can't use them with a monk's fists, or any other kind of natural weapon. There are weapon versions of most of those powers, but then you could just use those on your +1 flaming kama as well. An Amulet Of Might Fists costs three times as much as a magic kama. For the cost of a +1 Amulet Of Mighty Fists you could buy a +1 kama and +2 Gauntlets Of Ogre Power. No matter what resources you use to try to beef up your unarmed strike, you could use equal resources to beef up a kama or quarterstaff by a greater amount. Unarmed strikes always do less damage and hit less often than the manufactured weapons you can afford to buy. If you want to be a damage dealer, then you want to use manufactured weapons. The only advantages of unarmed strikes are a) you're always armed, b) they're free. Those are good advantages for a lot of character types, but not for damage dealers.
Orenmir 09-07-07, 01:08 PM	Unless you're a grappling damage-dealer. But, that's off topic...sorry. :D
dman11235 09-07-07, 01:46 PM	But there is the scorpion kama and amulet of natural attacks that make unarmed strike damage really useful. And amulet of natural attacks costs a mere 600 more than enhancing a weapon. That outperforms your weapon right there.
InkBlot 09-07-07, 02:06 PM	The Amulet Of Natural Attacks is from Savage Species, a 3.0 book, isn't it? I wouldn't count on any given DM allowing it, but if your DM does then it would certainly make unarmed strikes a viable weapon. I don't know where the scorpion kama is from or what it does. Unless you're a grappling damage-dealer. But, that's off topic...sorry. :D Monks aren't great grapplers anyway. They have 3/4 BAB and MAD making it difficult to keep Strength up. The great grappling classes (Psywar, Barbarian, etc.) are all proficient in Spiked Armor, which deals it's extra damage each time you make a successful grapple attack. That's extra damage on top of your unarmed strike damage, not replacing it. So a 1st level human Fighter in spiked armor deals 1d3 + 1d6 + Str damage with his grapple checks. And you can enchant the armor spikes just like a weapon. The Psywar has MAD and 3/4 BAB as well, but grip of iron and expansion more than make up for that. Psywars are perhaps the 2nd best grappling class, just behind Druids.
WyvernSlayer 09-07-07, 02:07 PM	Check out the link in my sig for some ideas :)
dman11235 09-07-07, 02:34 PM	I said where it was in my original post with it. Magic Item Compendium, Gharryn's Monastic Array. Also, the DM that doesn't let you take an amulet of natural attacks as a monk is wierd. I use SS in my 3.5 games, as do my other DMs. Not for the monsters, but everything else. There's also kensai, VoP, greater magic weapon.
Orenmir 09-07-07, 02:46 PM	Psywars are perhaps the 2nd best grappling class, just behind Druids. Grappling Druid? PsyWar, I agree. But, you'll have to convince me about Druid being the best class for a grappler.
dman11235 09-07-07, 02:54 PM	Wild shape. Done.
SlanderPanic 09-07-07, 03:44 PM	He's doing Vow of Poverty, so magic -and even masterwork- items are out of the question. If he wants to be a half-giant, I'd suggest he start out with two levels in either monk or psychic warrior. He won't be able to actually get Vow of Poverty until the next level. (If you want maximum benefit from VoP, you need to be a human or strongheart halfling. That way, you can take Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty at 1st level and start picking up bonus Exalted feats right away.) If you've got the Con for it, Touch Of Golden Ice is hilarious. I'd also seriously suggest ditching flurry and taking the decisive strike alternative class feature in the PHII. You don't get to trip as often, but you get a lot more out of a successful attempt.
dman11235 09-07-07, 05:47 PM	What he said. And yes, touch of golden ice is hilarious. One of the best exalted feats for unarmed combatants. Sure it's a low DC that doesn't scale, but they'll roll a natural one eventually!
CrimsonDeath 09-07-07, 09:09 PM	The Amulet Of Natural Attacks is from Savage Species, a 3.0 book, isn't it? I wouldn't count on any given DM allowing it, but if your DM does then it would certainly make unarmed strikes a viable weapon. Savage Species was from that weird period between 3.0 and 3.5. However, the material in it doesn't seem to have been balanced especially well... Grappling Druid? PsyWar, I agree. But, you'll have to convince me about Druid being the best class for a grappler. Wild Shape can be used to assume a variety of forms with Huge size, Improved Grab, Swallow Whole, and an impressive Strength Score. Tendriculos and Tyrannosaurus, for example, if you want to stick with Core.
Orenmir 09-08-07, 12:00 AM	Wild Shape can be used to assume a variety of forms with Huge size, Improved Grab, Swallow Whole, and an impressive Strength Score. Tendriculos and Tyrannosaurus, for example, if you want to stick with Core. By the time a Druid can shift into something that impressive, the Monk/PsyWar can expand to huge size, increase Strength equal to T-Rex, flurry with 6 attacks (w/o TWF), and deal damage off the monk charts (with the right feats). You wanna fight?!!? Do ya!!!???!! :P
CrimsonDeath 09-08-07, 02:22 AM	The Druid can also cast Freedom of Movement, so he doesn't have to grapple if he doesn't want to. By the time he can Wild Shape into a T-Rex, he can cast Bite of the Werebear, not to mention Shapechange. The Druid can be a Brown Bear by level 6 (Large size, Improved Grab, 27 Str). To match that, the PsyWar needs a natural 18 Str with a +2 racial bonus, and he still has to manifest Expansion and Animal Affinity (so it can't be done until level 5, and it takes two buffs per combat instead of one buff per day). And note that the Druid didn't have to dip Monk to do it; if he does, he'll just be even better at grappling. If we're comparing number of attacks, Dire Lion at level 8. Large size, improved grab, and pounce (25 Str). Bite, two claws, two rakes. PsyWar does get access to Huge size two levels sooner, though. But the level before that, I think the Druid's ahead with Dire Bear form (Large, Str 31). There are probably better forms outside Core, but I didn't want to complicate things too much... Yes, the PsyWar is a great grappler. But the Druid is also a great grappler.
dman11235 09-08-07, 01:39 PM	Just remember that you can't TWF with unarmed strikes. Your body is one weapon: you have no offhand.
Fafnir 09-08-07, 02:12 PM	Just remember that you can't TWF with unarmed strikes. Your body is one weapon: you have no offhand. You can. You're thinking about A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes. This refers to the fact that normal unarmed attacks, even if executed with your off-hand, don't get the off-hand penalty. There's nothing here that disallows adding TWF on top of that (in which case, as per TWF rules, the secondary hand does get a penalty). The errata confirmed this, adding that you can also Flurry and TWF at the same time.
dman11235 09-08-07, 03:48 PM	What I mean is: you need something besides the unarmed strike to TWF, something like a kama, or better yet, the scorpion kama. You can TWF with flurry, I never said you couldn't. You just need two weapons, and using just unarmed strikes doesn't count as a two weapons.
The_Shaman 09-08-07, 07:02 PM	Are you sure? I think it was several times stated that you can do it. Even the Bracers of Striking cost you twice what you'd get from the normal enhancements as you get it for both fists.
dman11235 09-08-07, 07:23 PM	Well, amulet of mighty fists costs 3 times what it would to enhance one weapon.I'm pretty sure seeing that you couldn't, and being disapointed. I was working on a TWF monk. And I remember being disapointed when it didn't work. I'm currently looking through the errata and the FAQ for info......It's very vague. It never says you can't, but it also never says you can.
InkBlot 09-08-07, 10:31 PM	You have two fists. I don't see how that doesn't work for TWF.
Sleepwalker13666 09-08-07, 11:00 PM	If you Dm would allow a custom class you might be interested in the Yogi, the link is in my signature under the classes section.
dman11235 09-08-07, 11:06 PM	You have two fists, but one body. And the body is the weapon. I want it to work, but it doesn't. Besides, a full attack from some one with 3 attacks a round is not 3 attacks in 6 seconds, it's many flourishes without any hope of hitting and then 3 that have a chance. Also, since your entire body is the weapon, you enchant that, just one thing, and get TWF out of it? I say no....
TheAbyssDragon 09-08-07, 11:07 PM	I don't know what makes you think you need weapons to use TWF. You simply gain offhand attacks that do your unarmed damage + 1/2 str.
TheAbyssDragon 09-08-07, 11:14 PM	Since I know you're going to call me out on this, here is a quote from the FAQ. p19 Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her penalties on attack rolls? A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an off- hand weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special monk weapons as part of the flurry). The penalties for two- weapon fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows.
dman11235 09-09-07, 12:13 AM	That's saying you can use your unarmed strike to be an off-hand attack, not that you can use your unarmed strike as both.
Batshido 09-09-07, 12:55 PM	That's saying you can use your unarmed strike to be an off-hand attack, not that you can use your unarmed strike as both. Does that really need to be said? It doesn't specifically mention using a Longsword in your main hand in the feat either, but that's assumed.
dman11235 09-09-07, 03:09 PM	It's clarrifying the fact that the unarmed strike entry in the monk says that you have no off-hand, meaning that it doesn't matter what part of your body you attack with. That passage has no bearing what so ever on TWF. But I've come to the conclusion that it makes sense to do it both ways, so it's up to you to decide.
The_Shaman 09-09-07, 05:44 PM	Afaik you can do it both ways. A monk can make attacks with any monk weapon (incl. fists/kicks) and not have any off-hand; or s/he can use the normal TWF rules for extra attacks.
dman11235 09-09-07, 09:54 PM	That's what I'm saying, I think. I'm not sure anymore, I've successfully confused myself.
Sickseelah 09-11-07, 11:46 AM	Hey guys, i didn't want to make a new thread on a minor question of mine so i decided to put it here. I was reading around and people were suggesting Slayer and Warmind, but I have no idea which books they are from. Can you guys help me out?
CrimsonDeath 09-11-07, 12:12 PM	Hey guys, i didn't want to make a new thread on a minor question of mine so i decided to put it here. I was reading around and people were suggesting Slayer and Warmind, but I have no idea which books they are from. Can you guys help me out? They're from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/). They're also in the Expanded Psionics Handbook (in which the Slayer is actually the Illithid Slayer).
Sickseelah 09-11-07, 12:24 PM	i found the illithid slayer but i can't seem to find the warmind, any idea if this guy's name has been changed in the XPH too?:P
SlanderPanic 09-11-07, 01:13 PM	War Mind. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) It's the last prestige class in the book. The XPH does have a table of contents, you know.