Q: Reforming my powers next level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Q: Reforming my powers next level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mesiolan
09-24-07, 07:01 AM Hello,

I’m playing a human Kin3/cleric3/PsyTheurge3. The CLE/PSI multiclass meshes pretty well. So I have buff spells and healing from the CLE, and blasting power from the PSI. Our main foes are humanoids, the occasional dragon, and evil outsiders (RHoD). Surprisingly, I find myself in melee in many of the fights, ‘cause we usually face large numbers of foes and our tank can block only a few of them. I’m the second best armored in the party.

I have access to XPH, CoPSI and Mind’s Eye (3.5 stuff only).

I intend to use Psychic Reformation next level to clean up my power choices.
Currently, I know:
1st: force screen, psionic grease, energy ray, far hand, demoralize
2nd: energy missile, biofeedback, energy adaption (lesser), Id insinuation
3rd: energy cone, energy wall, solicit psicrystal, telekinetic force

I intend to swap the following powers:
· energy ray > crystal shard (‘cause energy missile does the job as well, but some foes boast SR)
· far hand > control object OR matter agitation (to give my psicrystal something to play with during solicit psicrystal)
· demoralize > entangling ectoplasm (I never used demoralize anyway)
· biofeedback > dampen power (I never seem to have enough time to use all of my buffs available)
· Id insinuation > ego whip
· telekinetic force > touchsight OR time hop

The powers I intend to choose at Lv. 7 are:
· psychic reformation > correspond (campaign specific need, will be reformed out later)
· dimension door

Do you have other suggestions? Many thanks!
TheKeyofE
09-25-07, 09:14 AM Normally, I would say drop Energy Cone if you have Energy Missile because Missile has a longer range and can still hit more than one baddie. But you specifically said you usually face multiple enemies at close range, and Cone can hit a larger group than Missile can.

What weapon are you using? I would think if you have clerics levels you'd have a mace and heavy shield, in which case you shouldn't need Force Screen.
Mesiolan
09-27-07, 03:32 AM Thanks for the resonse.

True, Energy Cone has been used only thrice since I got it, and Energy Missile is used in almost every fight. Nonethelees, if you are facing up to 50 foes in a single fight, it's nice to take down 15 with 7pp at once.

I appear to be the heavy armored cleric of Pelor and usually surprise the foes by calling down heavenly fire (energy powers, privileged energy: fire) while waving my brightly shining holy symbol (yellow psicrystal shaped like sun disk of Pelor, imbued with cont. light spell).

My BAB sucks (+4 at Lv 9), so I don't care much about melee weapons. This will probably change with the spell Divine Power next level. Currently I use a looted +2 silvered heavy mace. I'm better at manifesting defensively in melee (+18 to concentration skill right now).

My armor is: fullplate, light shield and minor items. Total AC 21, plus buffs. AC 21 is not a good defense against the enemies we face, so I need some good AC buffs. Force screen is the best one available, +3 for 1 pp (does not stack with ring of prot.+1).

Do you have other suggestions for the Reformation?
CrimsonDeath
09-27-07, 04:12 AM Force Screen add's a shield bonus to AC, so it ought to stack with the ring (which offers a deflection bonus). It won't stack with any shield you happen to be carrying, though (and if you're a Psychic Theurge, you probably ought to carry one).
DracoPhoenix
09-27-07, 08:29 AM I intend to use Psychic Reformation next level to clean up my power choices.
Currently, I know:
1st: force screen, psionic grease, energy ray, far hand, demoralize
2nd: energy missile, biofeedback, energy adaption (lesser), Id insinuation
3rd: energy cone, energy wall, solicit psicrystal, telekinetic force

I intend to swap the following powers:
· energy ray > crystal shard (‘cause energy missile does the job as well, but some foes boast SR)
· far hand > control object OR matter agitation (to give my psicrystal something to play with during solicit psicrystal)
· demoralize > entangling ectoplasm (I never used demoralize anyway)
· biofeedback > dampen power (I never seem to have enough time to use all of my buffs available)
· Id insinuation > ego whip
· telekinetic force > touchsight OR time hop

The powers I intend to choose at Lv. 7 are:
· psychic reformation > correspond (campaign specific need, will be reformed out later)
· dimension door

Do you have other suggestions? Many thanks!

What have you got on the cleric side? Try to synergise (and did you take magic domain for extra cheese? :P)

"(I never used demoralize anyway)" is the correct reason to reform it out :)

Agreed on energy ray - EM is quite versatile, multiple targets, damages (even if only half), no attack roll. I find that it handles most of my direct damage needs.
If you need area splattage, I believe Energy Barrage (Comp Psi) may help.

I like to pick one or two types of attack - area / ray / cone etc and take the corresponding energy powers, you don't need a ton of different varieties. Consider Concussive blast(?) for force attacks.

Concentration Power wise, TKF -> Solicit Psi crystal can be an effective hold (15ft in the air, so out of melee) combo if you want the crystal to be helping out more (target their amour).

Also TK Manoeuvre, grapple & pin / trip. Most encounters are only a minute, so SolPsiC duration shouldn't be a problem.

TKF can also similarly double up as a short ranged levitate power.

Control Light (if you take touchsight) to drop the whole place in darkness (all armies are the same size at night ;) )

Control Sound - anyone making a listen check against the party either hears nothing, or a small army on the otherside of the door. Also doubles up as shatter. (~Silence & shatter in one...)

I believe there's also control air & weather powers, but haven't looked at them too much.

IIRC, isn't energy current's duration concentration?

Also, with SolPsiC, you can double up, just because you passed Energy current over to the crystal, doesn't mean you can't then cast it again and hit the creatures a second time.
Similarly, don't take too many concentration powers, just for SolPsiC as it's over head costs will chew through pp.

The problem with 1 encounter duration powers is, as you point out, you can't put too many on in one go. It is probably worth keeping only a couple always useful buffs, and a selection of situational ones - and take the rest as utility & offense powers.

One combo I recently thought of - suggestion + metamorphosis:
1) "You have an overwhelming, paralysing fear of hydras" (No hydra's in the area, so good chance to get by as a "reasonable" use.)
2) Metamorphosis -> Hydra.
(or similar if hydra's arn't allowed. This was off a psi(egoist) build, XPK(suggestion))

Regarding the melee aspect - kin is possibly not the best discipline, but try and get hold of the various melee effects (dissipating touch, X claw / weapon), metamorphosis at some point could prove useful, not just for the above hydra trick. Also Empathic Transfer, Hostile, Shared Pain, Forced may be worth investment.

Keep psi Reformation - for the same reason as this post. Bad choices get made, and if the DM doesn't allow retraining, you're stuck with em. As you need correspond, is there another power you can swap out?

Ok, not so much which ones you should choose as food for thought on what to use the powers you do pick for...
TheKeyofE
09-27-07, 09:04 AM Keep psi Reformation - for the same reason as this post. Bad choices get made, and if the DM doesn't allow retraining, you're stuck with em. As you need correspond, is there another power you can swap out?

Couldn't you just wait until you level up again, learn psychic reformation again, then reform it away again?
DracoPhoenix
09-27-07, 09:35 AM Couldn't you just wait until you level up again, learn psychic reformation again, then reform it away again?

And pay the 50xp every time? Admittedly it's a small amount, but then if you're not using it that much, it would be more effective to find a powerstone of it.
Mesiolan
09-27-07, 10:27 AM Force Screen add's a shield bonus to AC, so it ought to stack with the ring (which offers a deflection bonus). It won't stack with any shield you happen to be carrying, though (and if you're a Psychic Theurge, you probably ought to carry one).

Yup, you're right. Force Screen does not stack with my small shield. The spell Shield of Faith (+3 to AC) does not stack with my ring +1. Since I use both, I got confused sometimes.

Thank you for the feedback. No, my domains are Healing, and Good. Pelor does not offer the Magic domain.

Metamorphosis is out, since I can't afford the feat for it. The idea with the hydra is nice, and I'll probably use it with an egoist or shaper I'm planning for the next campaign.

I'll probably need Concussion Blast, but right now I use Spritual Weapon for force attacks. In the long run, I intend to blast incorporeals with the feat Transdimensional Power.

You are perfectly right on Energy Current. I'm looking forward to get it. It's still some levels to go.

The hints for TK are true, and I will probably keep TKForce.

Right now I always use Silence, but Control Sound is far better. Perhaps I can put it on my list somehow.

I'll definitely reform Psychic Reformation out. Should I ever need it again, I'll either get an item, or learn it at a later level.
DracoPhoenix
09-27-07, 11:55 AM Sorry just remembered - psi crystals vision & telepathic abilities

(also useful in silenced / discretion needed areas as the communication bit on "telepathic communication" could infer the ability to handle a two way conversation ;) (as opposed to telepathic speech) ).

Why were you looking at touch sight? Unless it was for the invisible tracking / advanced detection, you're Psi Crystal may be of more use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mesiolan 09-24-07, 07:01 AM	Hello, I’m playing a human Kin3/cleric3/PsyTheurge3. The CLE/PSI multiclass meshes pretty well. So I have buff spells and healing from the CLE, and blasting power from the PSI. Our main foes are humanoids, the occasional dragon, and evil outsiders (RHoD). Surprisingly, I find myself in melee in many of the fights, ‘cause we usually face large numbers of foes and our tank can block only a few of them. I’m the second best armored in the party. I have access to XPH, CoPSI and Mind’s Eye (3.5 stuff only). I intend to use Psychic Reformation next level to clean up my power choices. Currently, I know: 1st: force screen, psionic grease, energy ray, far hand, demoralize 2nd: energy missile, biofeedback, energy adaption (lesser), Id insinuation 3rd: energy cone, energy wall, solicit psicrystal, telekinetic force I intend to swap the following powers: · energy ray > crystal shard (‘cause energy missile does the job as well, but some foes boast SR) · far hand > control object OR matter agitation (to give my psicrystal something to play with during solicit psicrystal) · demoralize > entangling ectoplasm (I never used demoralize anyway) · biofeedback > dampen power (I never seem to have enough time to use all of my buffs available) · Id insinuation > ego whip · telekinetic force > touchsight OR time hop The powers I intend to choose at Lv. 7 are: · psychic reformation > correspond (campaign specific need, will be reformed out later) · dimension door Do you have other suggestions? Many thanks!
TheKeyofE 09-25-07, 09:14 AM	Normally, I would say drop Energy Cone if you have Energy Missile because Missile has a longer range and can still hit more than one baddie. But you specifically said you usually face multiple enemies at close range, and Cone can hit a larger group than Missile can. What weapon are you using? I would think if you have clerics levels you'd have a mace and heavy shield, in which case you shouldn't need Force Screen.
Mesiolan 09-27-07, 03:32 AM	Thanks for the resonse. True, Energy Cone has been used only thrice since I got it, and Energy Missile is used in almost every fight. Nonethelees, if you are facing up to 50 foes in a single fight, it's nice to take down 15 with 7pp at once. I appear to be the heavy armored cleric of Pelor and usually surprise the foes by calling down heavenly fire (energy powers, privileged energy: fire) while waving my brightly shining holy symbol (yellow psicrystal shaped like sun disk of Pelor, imbued with cont. light spell). My BAB sucks (+4 at Lv 9), so I don't care much about melee weapons. This will probably change with the spell Divine Power next level. Currently I use a looted +2 silvered heavy mace. I'm better at manifesting defensively in melee (+18 to concentration skill right now). My armor is: fullplate, light shield and minor items. Total AC 21, plus buffs. AC 21 is not a good defense against the enemies we face, so I need some good AC buffs. Force screen is the best one available, +3 for 1 pp (does not stack with ring of prot.+1). Do you have other suggestions for the Reformation?
CrimsonDeath 09-27-07, 04:12 AM	Force Screen add's a shield bonus to AC, so it ought to stack with the ring (which offers a deflection bonus). It won't stack with any shield you happen to be carrying, though (and if you're a Psychic Theurge, you probably ought to carry one).
DracoPhoenix 09-27-07, 08:29 AM	I intend to use Psychic Reformation next level to clean up my power choices. Currently, I know: 1st: force screen, psionic grease, energy ray, far hand, demoralize 2nd: energy missile, biofeedback, energy adaption (lesser), Id insinuation 3rd: energy cone, energy wall, solicit psicrystal, telekinetic force I intend to swap the following powers: · energy ray > crystal shard (‘cause energy missile does the job as well, but some foes boast SR) · far hand > control object OR matter agitation (to give my psicrystal something to play with during solicit psicrystal) · demoralize > entangling ectoplasm (I never used demoralize anyway) · biofeedback > dampen power (I never seem to have enough time to use all of my buffs available) · Id insinuation > ego whip · telekinetic force > touchsight OR time hop The powers I intend to choose at Lv. 7 are: · psychic reformation > correspond (campaign specific need, will be reformed out later) · dimension door Do you have other suggestions? Many thanks! What have you got on the cleric side? Try to synergise (and did you take magic domain for extra cheese? :P) "(I never used demoralize anyway)" is the correct reason to reform it out :) Agreed on energy ray - EM is quite versatile, multiple targets, damages (even if only half), no attack roll. I find that it handles most of my direct damage needs. If you need area splattage, I believe Energy Barrage (Comp Psi) may help. I like to pick one or two types of attack - area / ray / cone etc and take the corresponding energy powers, you don't need a ton of different varieties. Consider Concussive blast(?) for force attacks. Concentration Power wise, TKF -> Solicit Psi crystal can be an effective hold (15ft in the air, so out of melee) combo if you want the crystal to be helping out more (target their amour). Also TK Manoeuvre, grapple & pin / trip. Most encounters are only a minute, so SolPsiC duration shouldn't be a problem. TKF can also similarly double up as a short ranged levitate power. Control Light (if you take touchsight) to drop the whole place in darkness (all armies are the same size at night ;) ) Control Sound - anyone making a listen check against the party either hears nothing, or a small army on the otherside of the door. Also doubles up as shatter. (~Silence & shatter in one...) I believe there's also control air & weather powers, but haven't looked at them too much. IIRC, isn't energy current's duration concentration? Also, with SolPsiC, you can double up, just because you passed Energy current over to the crystal, doesn't mean you can't then cast it again and hit the creatures a second time. Similarly, don't take too many concentration powers, just for SolPsiC as it's over head costs will chew through pp. The problem with 1 encounter duration powers is, as you point out, you can't put too many on in one go. It is probably worth keeping only a couple always useful buffs, and a selection of situational ones - and take the rest as utility & offense powers. One combo I recently thought of - suggestion + metamorphosis: 1) "You have an overwhelming, paralysing fear of hydras" (No hydra's in the area, so good chance to get by as a "reasonable" use.) 2) Metamorphosis -> Hydra. (or similar if hydra's arn't allowed. This was off a psi(egoist) build, XPK(suggestion)) Regarding the melee aspect - kin is possibly not the best discipline, but try and get hold of the various melee effects (dissipating touch, X claw / weapon), metamorphosis at some point could prove useful, not just for the above hydra trick. Also Empathic Transfer, Hostile, Shared Pain, Forced may be worth investment. Keep psi Reformation - for the same reason as this post. Bad choices get made, and if the DM doesn't allow retraining, you're stuck with em. As you need correspond, is there another power you can swap out? Ok, not so much which ones you should choose as food for thought on what to use the powers you do pick for...
TheKeyofE 09-27-07, 09:04 AM	Keep psi Reformation - for the same reason as this post. Bad choices get made, and if the DM doesn't allow retraining, you're stuck with em. As you need correspond, is there another power you can swap out? Couldn't you just wait until you level up again, learn psychic reformation again, then reform it away again?
DracoPhoenix 09-27-07, 09:35 AM	Couldn't you just wait until you level up again, learn psychic reformation again, then reform it away again? And pay the 50xp every time? Admittedly it's a small amount, but then if you're not using it that much, it would be more effective to find a powerstone of it.
Mesiolan 09-27-07, 10:27 AM	Force Screen add's a shield bonus to AC, so it ought to stack with the ring (which offers a deflection bonus). It won't stack with any shield you happen to be carrying, though (and if you're a Psychic Theurge, you probably ought to carry one). Yup, you're right. Force Screen does not stack with my small shield. The spell Shield of Faith (+3 to AC) does not stack with my ring +1. Since I use both, I got confused sometimes. Thank you for the feedback. No, my domains are Healing, and Good. Pelor does not offer the Magic domain. Metamorphosis is out, since I can't afford the feat for it. The idea with the hydra is nice, and I'll probably use it with an egoist or shaper I'm planning for the next campaign. I'll probably need Concussion Blast, but right now I use Spritual Weapon for force attacks. In the long run, I intend to blast incorporeals with the feat Transdimensional Power. You are perfectly right on Energy Current. I'm looking forward to get it. It's still some levels to go. The hints for TK are true, and I will probably keep TKForce. Right now I always use Silence, but Control Sound is far better. Perhaps I can put it on my list somehow. I'll definitely reform Psychic Reformation out. Should I ever need it again, I'll either get an item, or learn it at a later level.
DracoPhoenix 09-27-07, 11:55 AM	Sorry just remembered - psi crystals vision & telepathic abilities (also useful in silenced / discretion needed areas as the communication bit on "telepathic communication" could infer the ability to handle a two way conversation ;) (as opposed to telepathic speech) ). Why were you looking at touch sight? Unless it was for the invisible tracking / advanced detection, you're Psi Crystal may be of more use.