Question on Metamind [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question on Metamind [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Curtcleancut
07-19-07, 10:30 AM I'm new to psionics and been trying to gather information through the forums. I'm making a Psion Kinetiscist and I was wondering if Metamind was and effective way to make his spells more powerful. (I'm playing the cannon for the group).
The only thing that I don't like is that the Metamind gains a level every other level.

Do you have any suggestions to help him on his way? Is there a better prestige class that I've missed? Is the prestige class worth it?

I was thinking Elan and we start a level 6.
Bacris
07-19-07, 10:33 AM Never, ever, ever play a metamind.

Period.
Tealgorthian
07-19-07, 10:41 AM Metamind sucks.

You're better off as a Psion20.
Tempest Stormwind
07-19-07, 11:00 AM The metamind sucks so much it's hilarious.

It's been shown that a kalashtar (you know, +1pp per HD) psion 5 / metamind 9 (the best you can get before Font shows up) with two flaws, a headband of intellect, and every possible feat spent on Psionic Talent... has fewer power points than an [anyrace] psion 14 with the same Int but no feats or gear spoken for.

Font is nice, but it's basically sucking for free. For the rest of the day, you still have to pay full price to suck.
Fafnir
07-19-07, 11:05 AM To elaborate, the pp you save thanks to free manifestations is less than the pp you get by advancing manifesting, and you lose manifester level and powers known, too.

The Metamind is an interesting concept, but a badly designed class.

By the way, Hyperconscious (a third party supplement from Malhavoc Press) includes a variant Metamind that's actually useful, with 7/10 manifesting and the ability to sacrifice powers known to get bonus pp.
AntiDjinn
07-19-07, 11:15 AM Font of Power is an OK ability. The problem is surviving the nine sucky levels to ever see it. The metamind looses power points despite the premise of the PrC. The metamind gives up 5 manifester levels. Most of your powers will simply fizzle against opponents' defenses. An effect isn't free if it costs you an action and doesn't provide a benefit.

If you take metamind then odds are around level 5 your own party will kill you, both out of pity and because they will level faster without the XP sink.
Curtcleancut
07-19-07, 12:58 PM Ok,

I definitely won't play the metamind. Thanks for the heads - up. I was thinking of something similar to the Mindmelter from the old Rifts game. The Metamind seemed to resemble this, but people have pointed out the big neon sign that’s says "This Class Sux".

Let me ask this - is the kinetisist a favorable class? I noticed most of the powers do the same damage on a scaled level. I don't have the book in front of me (If I recall),

Energy Missle -attacks 5 targets and does 3d6 and cost 3 pp.
I think it is a 2nd level power.

Energy Cone - attacks a 60ft cone and does 5d6 and cost 5 pp This is a 3rd level power.

I know the other energy powers follow this format, i.e. the pp cost goes up by 2 points and the damage follows by going up 2d6.

Most of the powers scale like this? Not much of a difference or point to taking the different powers (it seems). It seems like the same power is being used with a different type of range or area?

In short the Energy Missile will essentially does the same amount of damage as the Energy Cone? And I have 5 guaranteed hits?

Am I missing something?

I just want to get these questions out of the way before I play the character and decide I don't like him.

Thanks for the help so far!!!!
Curtcleancut
07-19-07, 12:59 PM Ok,

I definitely won't play the Metamind. Thanks for the heads - up. I was thinking of something similar to the Mindmelter from the old Rifts game. The Metamind seemed to resemble this, but people have pointed out the big neon sign that’s says "This Class Sux".

Let me ask this - is the kinetisist a favorable class? I noticed most of the powers do the same damage on a scaled level. I don't have the book in front of me (If I recall),

Energy Missle -attacks 5 targets and does 3d6 and cost 3 pp.
I think it is a 2nd level power.

Energy Cone - attacks a 60ft cone and does 5d6 and cost 5 pp This is a 3rd level power.

I know the other energy powers follow this format, i.e. the pp cost goes up by 2 points and the damage follows by going up 2d6.

Most of the powers scale like this? Not much of a difference or point to taking the different powers (it seems). It seems like the same power is being used with a different type of range or area?

In short the Energy Missile will essentially does the same amount of damage as the Energy Cone? And I have 5 guaranteed hits?

Am I missing something?

I just want to get these questions out of the way before I play the character and decide I don't like him.

Thanks for the help so far!!!!
kyeudo
07-19-07, 01:09 PM Yes. Kinetiscists get a lot of ways to do 1d6 damage for each pp spent on the power.

Energy Missile can't target the same target twice, but all missiles are garanteed to hit.
Tempest Stormwind
07-19-07, 01:13 PM Kineticists are fine. They tend to run low on power points easily, but they also tend to actually make blasting worthwhile. Look into metapsionics.
Bacris
07-19-07, 01:29 PM If you're going to play a kineticist, after about 8th level, start investing in Empower Power... Psionic Meditation / Psicrystal Affinity are also good - This combo will make your power points last longer.

Also look into Energy Current - you get more bang for your buck, since it has a duration. Solicit Psicrystal will help with this - manifest it and let your crystal take over the concentration.
Curtcleancut
07-19-07, 02:02 PM Thanks for the response again! That was a huge help. At this point I'll nix the Metamind and go for a standard Kineticist. Thanks again for the feedback. You guys are great. If you have any other input definitely let me know. I'll be checking the thread.
Tempest Stormwind
07-19-07, 02:22 PM There are kineticist options in both Hyperconscious and Untapped Potential that you might enjoy. However, standard kineticist is fine and potent in its own right.
Curtcleancut
07-19-07, 02:44 PM Hmm... I just looked it up. Sounds like it's not sanctioned by WotC. I don't think the DM will let it float. But "A for effort".
Tempest Stormwind
07-19-07, 02:48 PM Hmm... I just looked it up. Sounds like it's not sanctioned by WotC. I don't think the DM will let it float. But "A for effort".

"sanctioned" is hardly the right word. Neither are owned by WotC, true. However:
Hyperconscious is written by the same man behind the XPH, Bruce Cordell.
Untapped Potential is consistently hailed as one of the best books on psionics in the current edition
And both are easily better balanced than much WotC material out there.

If you don't want to use them, fine, though.
Curtcleancut
07-19-07, 02:57 PM Wow! That sounds great. Which book would you recommend getting first? I may pick up both books if they fit into my monthly D&D budget. I have to check with the DM of course, but I'd love to pick them up just to have on hand.
Fafnir
07-19-07, 03:49 PM I'd recommend Untapped Potential myself. I recently got it and it's simply awesome. When I DM, I tend to focus heavily on psionics, so it's exactly what I needed.

... that, and Tempest probably won't give you a straight answer, to avoid being biased. :D
Tealgorthian
07-19-07, 04:10 PM Wow! That sounds great. Which book would you recommend getting first? I may pick up both books if they fit into my monthly D&D budget. I have to check with the DM of course, but I'd love to pick them up just to have on hand.

I'd say talk to him about it, and see which one he will let you use - the buy that one.

UT is probably better balanced. I've never used/seen it myself, but given who worked on it, its worth its weight in gold.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Curtcleancut 07-19-07, 10:30 AM	I'm new to psionics and been trying to gather information through the forums. I'm making a Psion Kinetiscist and I was wondering if Metamind was and effective way to make his spells more powerful. (I'm playing the cannon for the group). The only thing that I don't like is that the Metamind gains a level every other level. Do you have any suggestions to help him on his way? Is there a better prestige class that I've missed? Is the prestige class worth it? I was thinking Elan and we start a level 6.
Bacris 07-19-07, 10:33 AM	Never, ever, ever play a metamind. Period.
Tealgorthian 07-19-07, 10:41 AM	Metamind sucks. You're better off as a Psion20.
Tempest Stormwind 07-19-07, 11:00 AM	The metamind sucks so much it's hilarious. It's been shown that a kalashtar (you know, +1pp per HD) psion 5 / metamind 9 (the best you can get before Font shows up) with two flaws, a headband of intellect, and every possible feat spent on Psionic Talent... has fewer power points than an [anyrace] psion 14 with the same Int but no feats or gear spoken for. Font is nice, but it's basically sucking for free. For the rest of the day, you still have to pay full price to suck.
Fafnir 07-19-07, 11:05 AM	To elaborate, the pp you save thanks to free manifestations is less than the pp you get by advancing manifesting, and you lose manifester level and powers known, too. The Metamind is an interesting concept, but a badly designed class. By the way, Hyperconscious (a third party supplement from Malhavoc Press) includes a variant Metamind that's actually useful, with 7/10 manifesting and the ability to sacrifice powers known to get bonus pp.
AntiDjinn 07-19-07, 11:15 AM	Font of Power is an OK ability. The problem is surviving the nine sucky levels to ever see it. The metamind looses power points despite the premise of the PrC. The metamind gives up 5 manifester levels. Most of your powers will simply fizzle against opponents' defenses. An effect isn't free if it costs you an action and doesn't provide a benefit. If you take metamind then odds are around level 5 your own party will kill you, both out of pity and because they will level faster without the XP sink.
Curtcleancut 07-19-07, 12:58 PM	Ok, I definitely won't play the metamind. Thanks for the heads - up. I was thinking of something similar to the Mindmelter from the old Rifts game. The Metamind seemed to resemble this, but people have pointed out the big neon sign that’s says "This Class Sux". Let me ask this - is the kinetisist a favorable class? I noticed most of the powers do the same damage on a scaled level. I don't have the book in front of me (If I recall), Energy Missle -attacks 5 targets and does 3d6 and cost 3 pp. I think it is a 2nd level power. Energy Cone - attacks a 60ft cone and does 5d6 and cost 5 pp This is a 3rd level power. I know the other energy powers follow this format, i.e. the pp cost goes up by 2 points and the damage follows by going up 2d6. Most of the powers scale like this? Not much of a difference or point to taking the different powers (it seems). It seems like the same power is being used with a different type of range or area? In short the Energy Missile will essentially does the same amount of damage as the Energy Cone? And I have 5 guaranteed hits? Am I missing something? I just want to get these questions out of the way before I play the character and decide I don't like him. Thanks for the help so far!!!!
Curtcleancut 07-19-07, 12:59 PM	Ok, I definitely won't play the Metamind. Thanks for the heads - up. I was thinking of something similar to the Mindmelter from the old Rifts game. The Metamind seemed to resemble this, but people have pointed out the big neon sign that’s says "This Class Sux". Let me ask this - is the kinetisist a favorable class? I noticed most of the powers do the same damage on a scaled level. I don't have the book in front of me (If I recall), Energy Missle -attacks 5 targets and does 3d6 and cost 3 pp. I think it is a 2nd level power. Energy Cone - attacks a 60ft cone and does 5d6 and cost 5 pp This is a 3rd level power. I know the other energy powers follow this format, i.e. the pp cost goes up by 2 points and the damage follows by going up 2d6. Most of the powers scale like this? Not much of a difference or point to taking the different powers (it seems). It seems like the same power is being used with a different type of range or area? In short the Energy Missile will essentially does the same amount of damage as the Energy Cone? And I have 5 guaranteed hits? Am I missing something? I just want to get these questions out of the way before I play the character and decide I don't like him. Thanks for the help so far!!!!
kyeudo 07-19-07, 01:09 PM	Yes. Kinetiscists get a lot of ways to do 1d6 damage for each pp spent on the power. Energy Missile can't target the same target twice, but all missiles are garanteed to hit.
Tempest Stormwind 07-19-07, 01:13 PM	Kineticists are fine. They tend to run low on power points easily, but they also tend to actually make blasting worthwhile. Look into metapsionics.
Bacris 07-19-07, 01:29 PM	If you're going to play a kineticist, after about 8th level, start investing in Empower Power... Psionic Meditation / Psicrystal Affinity are also good - This combo will make your power points last longer. Also look into Energy Current - you get more bang for your buck, since it has a duration. Solicit Psicrystal will help with this - manifest it and let your crystal take over the concentration.
Curtcleancut 07-19-07, 02:02 PM	Thanks for the response again! That was a huge help. At this point I'll nix the Metamind and go for a standard Kineticist. Thanks again for the feedback. You guys are great. If you have any other input definitely let me know. I'll be checking the thread.
Tempest Stormwind 07-19-07, 02:22 PM	There are kineticist options in both Hyperconscious and Untapped Potential that you might enjoy. However, standard kineticist is fine and potent in its own right.
Curtcleancut 07-19-07, 02:44 PM	Hmm... I just looked it up. Sounds like it's not sanctioned by WotC. I don't think the DM will let it float. But "A for effort".
Tempest Stormwind 07-19-07, 02:48 PM	Hmm... I just looked it up. Sounds like it's not sanctioned by WotC. I don't think the DM will let it float. But "A for effort". "sanctioned" is hardly the right word. Neither are owned by WotC, true. However: Hyperconscious is written by the same man behind the XPH, Bruce Cordell. Untapped Potential is consistently hailed as one of the best books on psionics in the current edition And both are easily better balanced than much WotC material out there. If you don't want to use them, fine, though.
Curtcleancut 07-19-07, 02:57 PM	Wow! That sounds great. Which book would you recommend getting first? I may pick up both books if they fit into my monthly D&D budget. I have to check with the DM of course, but I'd love to pick them up just to have on hand.
Fafnir 07-19-07, 03:49 PM	I'd recommend Untapped Potential myself. I recently got it and it's simply awesome. When I DM, I tend to focus heavily on psionics, so it's exactly what I needed. ... that, and Tempest probably won't give you a straight answer, to avoid being biased. :D
Tealgorthian 07-19-07, 04:10 PM	Wow! That sounds great. Which book would you recommend getting first? I may pick up both books if they fit into my monthly D&D budget. I have to check with the DM of course, but I'd love to pick them up just to have on hand. I'd say talk to him about it, and see which one he will let you use - the buy that one. UT is probably better balanced. I've never used/seen it myself, but given who worked on it, its worth its weight in gold.