Question on Sense Link & Sense Link, Forced [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question on Sense Link & Sense Link, Forced [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ryuoch
04-15-08, 07:12 PM Is there any reason that Sense Link, Forced shouldn’t just be an augment to Sense Link? Sense Link, Forced states that you can’t augment it like Sense Link but really is there I reason why? Not really a game breaking power.

I ask because I'm about to ask my DM if I can add the augment under the Independent Research Rules. I'm the guy who knows the most about psionics so then tend to look to me for game balance questions when it comes to psionics and I cant for the life of me figger out why they split this into two powers.
The_Mess
04-15-08, 10:05 PM See Lycanthromancer's revised powers document:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=968968
InkBlot
04-16-08, 01:13 AM I agree. Forced sense link should simply be an augment to sense link.

And mass missive should be an augment to missive.

I think, perhaps, these powers were written before the writers of the XPH really got used to the paradigm shift between 3.0 and 3.5 psionics. In 3.5 powers never scaled, couldn't even augment, and instead you had a billion different versions of the same power.

The only possible abuse I see is that, if you link the subject to your senses, you can make her lose her dex bonus to AC. I'm not sure that could even be truly called "abusive," considering that it would cost at least 7 power points, and the save DC would still be only 11 + Int (unless you slap on a DC augment too).
AntiDjinn
04-16-08, 02:06 AM The powers that exist in two separate power write-ups are a mixed bag. In some cases it seems justified: Empathic Transfer and Hostile Empathic Transfer have differing parameters and mechanics; one is not simply a version of the other that can be used on unwilling targets. Moreover, it is easy to conceive of a saintly character (say, one who has Vow of Peace) who can selflessly take the wounds of others upon himself, but has neither the means nor the desire to use the power to inflict wounds on others. Those two powers are different enough in implementation, intent, and even discipline (one is psychometabolic, the other telepathic) to qualify as two separate powers. Such considerations should be the yardstick for determining if a power warrants being written as two separate powers.

On the other hand, there are several powers where it is a mystery how such considerations were applied. Why Mass Cloud Mind is not simply an augmentation of Cloud Mind is beyond comprehension; the power in not strong enough to be worth one slot, much less two. Why does Mindlink have a 4 point augmentation to allow it to be used on a non-willing target while Sense Link takes a separate power? Maybe the author saw a problem in the augmentations being applied to an unwilling subject.

For one other power couple -- Fabricate and Improved Fabricate -- I would be willing to bet it is because of the way DMs tend to freak out over the economic implications. Fabricate has caused DM concern since it debuted (as a Wu Jen spell from the 1st edition of OA, IIRC). Of course, it is is being abused, having it split into two powers does nothing to stop this. You do not need Fabricate to learn Improved Fabricate, so if you care to be a one man industrial revolution then just take the higher volume version.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ryuoch 04-15-08, 07:12 PM	Is there any reason that Sense Link, Forced shouldn’t just be an augment to Sense Link? Sense Link, Forced states that you can’t augment it like Sense Link but really is there I reason why? Not really a game breaking power. I ask because I'm about to ask my DM if I can add the augment under the Independent Research Rules. I'm the guy who knows the most about psionics so then tend to look to me for game balance questions when it comes to psionics and I cant for the life of me figger out why they split this into two powers.
The_Mess 04-15-08, 10:05 PM	See Lycanthromancer's revised powers document: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=968968
InkBlot 04-16-08, 01:13 AM	I agree. Forced sense link should simply be an augment to sense link. And mass missive should be an augment to missive. I think, perhaps, these powers were written before the writers of the XPH really got used to the paradigm shift between 3.0 and 3.5 psionics. In 3.5 powers never scaled, couldn't even augment, and instead you had a billion different versions of the same power. The only possible abuse I see is that, if you link the subject to your senses, you can make her lose her dex bonus to AC. I'm not sure that could even be truly called "abusive," considering that it would cost at least 7 power points, and the save DC would still be only 11 + Int (unless you slap on a DC augment too).
AntiDjinn 04-16-08, 02:06 AM	The powers that exist in two separate power write-ups are a mixed bag. In some cases it seems justified: Empathic Transfer and Hostile Empathic Transfer have differing parameters and mechanics; one is not simply a version of the other that can be used on unwilling targets. Moreover, it is easy to conceive of a saintly character (say, one who has Vow of Peace) who can selflessly take the wounds of others upon himself, but has neither the means nor the desire to use the power to inflict wounds on others. Those two powers are different enough in implementation, intent, and even discipline (one is psychometabolic, the other telepathic) to qualify as two separate powers. Such considerations should be the yardstick for determining if a power warrants being written as two separate powers. On the other hand, there are several powers where it is a mystery how such considerations were applied. Why Mass Cloud Mind is not simply an augmentation of Cloud Mind is beyond comprehension; the power in not strong enough to be worth one slot, much less two. Why does Mindlink have a 4 point augmentation to allow it to be used on a non-willing target while Sense Link takes a separate power? Maybe the author saw a problem in the augmentations being applied to an unwilling subject. For one other power couple -- Fabricate and Improved Fabricate -- I would be willing to bet it is because of the way DMs tend to freak out over the economic implications. Fabricate has caused DM concern since it debuted (as a Wu Jen spell from the 1st edition of OA, IIRC). Of course, it is is being abused, having it split into two powers does nothing to stop this. You do not need Fabricate to learn Improved Fabricate, so if you care to be a one man industrial revolution then just take the higher volume version.