Question on the Ardent [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question on the Ardent [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cryacat
08-15-07, 10:03 PM Since there are several on the board who seem to be decently knowing [more so than I, anyway] on the topic of Psionics I was curious as to whether this is... plausible.

Its about the Ardent, and while I wouldn't be so brave to call it groundbreaking [I've not looked to see if someone else found this] it is nice for Prestige Class Ardents, and multiclass Ardents.

The Powers Known section says "At each additional level, an ardent learns one new power from her available mantles. She must be able to manifest the power at the level she learns it." then it goes on to say that a "5th level (ardent) can learn any power from one of her mantles that costs 5 power points or less to manifest; she cannot learn a power that costs more than 5 power points to manifest until she attains a level capable of manifesting a power with that cost."

So as I read it, it says "I cannot pick any power that I couldn't pay the base cost for."

So if, by virtue of the Practiced Manifester feat I could spend 9 power points when I hit level 5 of ardent [having say 4 levels of fighter], I could select any power of 5th level or lower despite only having 5 levels of ardent.

Just curious if this works rules as written.

I did have something else to say, but I forgot.
Bacris
08-15-07, 10:21 PM So if, by virtue of the Practiced Manifester feat I could spend 9 power points when I hit level 5 of ardent [having say 4 levels of fighter], I could select any power of 5th level or lower despite only having 5 levels of ardent.

Just curious if this works rules as written.

Yup!

The only level this doesn't work is for a 1st level ardent, as that explicitly says they learn 1st level powers.

So an Ardent 2 / Other Class 3 could get a 3rd level power and therefore qualify for prestige classes requiring the ability to manifest 3rd level powers.
InkBlot
08-16-07, 02:03 AM One of my favorite tricks is Ardent 6/Crusader 14 with Practiced Manifester and Overchannel. 9th level manuevers and 6th level powers, without a prestige class.
Kirech
08-17-07, 10:03 PM I have an addendum to this question that I HAVEN'T seen answered 20 or so times on the psionics boards (but probably has been anyway). By my reading of the SRD, bonus power points are based on Manifester Level, and not Class Level in a Manifesting Class.
Your key ability score grants you additional power points equal to your key ability modifier з your manifester level зН.
Does this mean that Practiced Manifester would give you more bonus PP? That would help with the fact that multiclass Ardents lose a lot of manifesting stamina in those four non-advancing levels. I was just wondering if anyone has any rules text that invalidates that interpretation.
Tempest Stormwind
08-17-07, 10:11 PM I have an addendum to this question that I HAVEN'T seen answered 20 or so times on the psionics boards (but probably has been anyway). By my reading of the SRD, bonus power points are based on Manifester Level, and not Class Level in a Manifesting Class.

Does this mean that Practiced Manifester would give you more bonus PP? That would help with the fact that multiclass Ardents lose a lot of manifesting stamina in those four non-advancing levels. I was just wondering if anyone has any rules text that invalidates that interpretation.

Correct. You DO gain bonus power points for Practiced Manifester.

We're fairly certain this was unintentional since it's a CPFR (copy-paste-find-replace) of Practiced Spellcaster, but in an odd twist of fate it's actually for the better that way.

You see, spells scale automatically based on level. Thus, if you take Practiced Spellcaster, your spells all take effect at +4 CL (or whatever). Powers scale based on power points spent. If you take Practiced Manifester, your powers take effect at exactly the same strength they always have, unless you spend more power points to take advantage of your increased ML. Thus, the fact that it provides a number of bonus power points is actually fairly analagous to what its partner feat does. The issue is, of course, that the amount it grants is TRIVIALLY small in comparison....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cryacat 08-15-07, 10:03 PM	Since there are several on the board who seem to be decently knowing [more so than I, anyway] on the topic of Psionics I was curious as to whether this is... plausible. Its about the Ardent, and while I wouldn't be so brave to call it groundbreaking [I've not looked to see if someone else found this] it is nice for Prestige Class Ardents, and multiclass Ardents. The Powers Known section says "At each additional level, an ardent learns one new power from her available mantles. She must be able to manifest the power at the level she learns it." then it goes on to say that a "5th level (ardent) can learn any power from one of her mantles that costs 5 power points or less to manifest; she cannot learn a power that costs more than 5 power points to manifest until she attains a level capable of manifesting a power with that cost." So as I read it, it says "I cannot pick any power that I couldn't pay the base cost for." So if, by virtue of the Practiced Manifester feat I could spend 9 power points when I hit level 5 of ardent [having say 4 levels of fighter], I could select any power of 5th level or lower despite only having 5 levels of ardent. Just curious if this works rules as written. I did have something else to say, but I forgot.
Bacris 08-15-07, 10:21 PM	So if, by virtue of the Practiced Manifester feat I could spend 9 power points when I hit level 5 of ardent [having say 4 levels of fighter], I could select any power of 5th level or lower despite only having 5 levels of ardent. Just curious if this works rules as written. Yup! The only level this doesn't work is for a 1st level ardent, as that explicitly says they learn 1st level powers. So an Ardent 2 / Other Class 3 could get a 3rd level power and therefore qualify for prestige classes requiring the ability to manifest 3rd level powers.
InkBlot 08-16-07, 02:03 AM	One of my favorite tricks is Ardent 6/Crusader 14 with Practiced Manifester and Overchannel. 9th level manuevers and 6th level powers, without a prestige class.
Kirech 08-17-07, 10:03 PM	I have an addendum to this question that I HAVEN'T seen answered 20 or so times on the psionics boards (but probably has been anyway). By my reading of the SRD, bonus power points are based on Manifester Level, and not Class Level in a Manifesting Class. Your key ability score grants you additional power points equal to your key ability modifier з your manifester level зН. Does this mean that Practiced Manifester would give you more bonus PP? That would help with the fact that multiclass Ardents lose a lot of manifesting stamina in those four non-advancing levels. I was just wondering if anyone has any rules text that invalidates that interpretation.
Tempest Stormwind 08-17-07, 10:11 PM	I have an addendum to this question that I HAVEN'T seen answered 20 or so times on the psionics boards (but probably has been anyway). By my reading of the SRD, bonus power points are based on Manifester Level, and not Class Level in a Manifesting Class. Does this mean that Practiced Manifester would give you more bonus PP? That would help with the fact that multiclass Ardents lose a lot of manifesting stamina in those four non-advancing levels. I was just wondering if anyone has any rules text that invalidates that interpretation. Correct. You DO gain bonus power points for Practiced Manifester. We're fairly certain this was unintentional since it's a CPFR (copy-paste-find-replace) of Practiced Spellcaster, but in an odd twist of fate it's actually for the better that way. You see, spells scale automatically based on level. Thus, if you take Practiced Spellcaster, your spells all take effect at +4 CL (or whatever). Powers scale based on power points spent. If you take Practiced Manifester, your powers take effect at exactly the same strength they always have, unless you spend more power points to take advantage of your increased ML. Thus, the fact that it provides a number of bonus power points is actually fairly analagous to what its partner feat does. The issue is, of course, that the amount it grants is TRIVIALLY small in comparison....