Quick question: Which best describes the essence of Psionics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Quick question: Which best describes the essence of Psionics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Haldrik
12-13-07, 10:19 AM Quick question:

Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics?

Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience?
DracoPhoenix
12-13-07, 10:27 AM Quick question:

Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics?

Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience?

Telepathy thinks the psion(telepath)
Telekinesis exclaims the psion(kenesist)
Prescience forsees the psion(seer).

It's like asking which best describes a fighter:
The Power attack tree,
The combat expertise tree,
The point blank shot tree.
archerpwr
12-13-07, 10:41 AM Telepathy thinks the psion(telepath)
Telekinesis exclaims the psion(kenesist)
Prescience forsees the psion(seer).

It's like asking which best describes a fighter:
The Power attack tree,
The combat expertise tree,
The point blank shot tree.

Well said.
Alkthash
12-13-07, 11:22 AM Psionics is the ability to tell reality to sit down and shut up with only the power of your mind. No silly words or hand gestures for the psion.
Bacris
12-13-07, 11:46 AM I don't think Haldrik meant specific to 3.5 psionics mechanics, I think he meant in general.
DracoPhoenix
12-13-07, 11:59 AM I don't think Haldrik meant specific to 3.5 psionics mechanics, I think he meant in general.

If that was the case, it would still be a matter of individual interest, and for me that would be at least all 3.

Going with the whole reality revision vein :)
Orenmir
12-13-07, 12:37 PM Quick question:

Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics?

Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience?

I will actually answer your question...

Psychic Prescience. The first two are a part of Psionics; the third is Psionics. Afterall, you can be psionic without being telekinetic or telepathetic.
CrimsonDeath
12-13-07, 01:18 PM Telepathy thinks the psion(telepath)
Telekinesis exclaims the psion(kenesist)
Prescience forsees the psion(seer).

It's like asking which best describes a fighter:
The Power attack tree,
The combat expertise tree,
The point blank shot tree.

Yeah, because you left out Metacreativity, Psychoportation, and Psychometabolism. (Not to mention the Two Weapon Fighting tree, the Weapon Focus tree, the Improved Unarmed Strike tree, and the Mounted Combat tree.)
Fafnir
12-13-07, 01:27 PM Afterall, you can be psionic without being telekinetic or telepathetic.

Most psions wouldn't like being (tele)pathetic, indeed. :D
GuyrtheadamantineOne
12-13-07, 01:55 PM Which best describes the essence of Psionics?

A psionicist is an awakened dreamer. Some dreamers are extreme, others have more composure, but all learn to control their inner realms. Whether they sleep wild or calm shape their strength to make the universe bow to their will.

Your eyes only show an illusion, a veil over reality. Shackled minds use fake ways, keys, to convince themselves they can change this veil to their tastes. Those are words, gests and objects without meaning to the free thinkers but gifted with so much powers by the fools. What they call magic is merely a crutch to escape the limits of their bounded logic.

A child imagine he wields a sword.

A man forge one to his taste.

This is psionic fluff. It describe the best way I could what psionics are. There is no iconic psionic power, since it changes from source to source. And its even worse in D&D.
Orenmir
12-13-07, 01:59 PM Most psions wouldn't like being (tele)pathetic, indeed. :D

HA!! Nice catch. I like to make up words now and then. Remember Snigglets? I think "telepathetic" should be defined as a pathetic telepath. Or, maybe, a telepathic idiot.
Lycanthromancer
12-13-07, 02:37 PM Or someone that takes levels in metamind.
sijigs
12-13-07, 04:25 PM Or someone that takes levels in metamind.

HAHAHAH. Or someone who constantly uses the Comp Psi. :p
InkBlot
12-13-07, 05:12 PM Hey! I constantly use ComPsi. The Ardent and Lurk are nice classes, and a handful of the feats and powers are very useful too. Multiclass Ardent/Swordsage builds can duplicate a surprising number of anime characters.

There is no iconic psionic power, since it changes from source to source. And its even worse in D&D.
I couldn't agree more.
sijigs
12-13-07, 05:13 PM Hey! I constantly use ComPsi. The Ardent and Lurk are nice classes, and a handful of the feats and powers are very useful too. Multiclass Ardent/Swordsage builds can duplicate a surprising number of anime characters.

I couldn't agree more.

Whooops. Sorry.. !!! :)
Slagger the Chuul
12-13-07, 09:57 PM Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics?

Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience?

Psionics is the invisible power. By classic style its effects are intangible or unobservable, and the most modern examples involve control over powerful invisible forces (a legacy of the scientific discovery of properties like magnetism).

Psychic prescience represents the oldest form of psionics; the witch or medium who operates by special knowledge as much as by direct force.

Telekinesis is more representative of modern-age psionics; magnetism and gravity are its parents.

Telepathy is somewhere between the two, reaching both in the extreme of its direction, from bizarre voices in the heads of madmen, to the inescapable communication of the powerful psion.

All of these elements are present to some degree at all stages, they just vary in intensity.
DarkTouch
12-14-07, 01:29 PM Its interesting how you've trimmed these down.

Of the ones you have listed, Telepathy is the core psionic experience. Psychic Prescience was a close contenteder until I reliezed that it was only Prescience. The Sight (Which would include Prescience, Postscience, Ghost Sight, Telesight, Danger Sense, among others) is much more 'core' to the psionic experience. In an M&M game, I would question any psionic character who didn't have at least one super-sense.
ReaderOfPosts
12-14-07, 01:55 PM I would eliminate prescience. To me, the flavor of the psion is internal control. He's not grappling with any mysteries of the universe, he's not begging boons of creatures with power beyond his imaginations: everything he does is because the psionicist can do it.

On an unrelated note, that (and poor editing) was the biggest gaff in Complete Psionics: magic is great when you tie it to ancestral bloodlines and far off plains, but that's magic flavor, not psionic flavor. I'm strongly of the opinion that psionics should be at best trained, and at worst completely random.
DarkTouch
12-14-07, 02:00 PM On an unrelated note, that (and poor editing) was the biggest gaff in Complete Psionics: magic is great when you tie it to ancestral bloodlines and far off plains, but that's magic flavor, not psionic flavor. I'm strongly of the opinion that psionics should be at best trained, and at worst completely random.

I tend to go the opposite way with this. Psionics is the complete other side of the coin from Sorcerers. Sorcerers get their power because they had some power that they inheritted. New Psions are the founders of their bloodlines.. evolving out of their roots.
Haldrik
12-15-07, 12:31 PM Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics? Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience?

The question is difficult to answer because the term 'Psi' itself was coined to mean both 'psychokinesis' (telekinesis) and 'ESP' (telepathy and prescience including clairsentience).

So far developers announced, especially in the 4e book Races and Classes, most of the Enchantment spells (= telepathy) will be removed from the Arcane power source (Wizard) and the Divine power source (Cleric) and given to the new Psi power source (Psion) that will be published in a future Players Handbook.

Its good news, the developers are making room for Psi.

Notably, the devs havent mentioned telekinesis (which seems to go to Arcane Evocation) or prescience (which seems to go to Divine Divination) will be Psi.

As long as Psi classes can access telekinesis and divinition using the Psi power source, I dont see this as a problem. Then the various power sources are more or less identical to 'psionic disciplines'.

Telekinesis and Divination are quintessentially Psi. If Psi classes cant access these, it seems problematic.
ReaderOfPosts
12-16-07, 12:30 PM The thing is, it's not that they don't belong in different domains, but rather that they operate in different ways.

Magical Enchantments I always envision the wizard chanting under his breath "Bewitch the mind, bewitch the soul; bereft of free will, thy strings I pull"

A psionicist on the other hand, waltzes into the mind and deftly defeats his opponents psyche in battle. Once defeated, it's processes are open for him to rewire as he sees fit, likely to the advancement of his own goals.
DarkTouch
12-16-07, 09:05 PM Despite them saying "tone down (read: Nerf) regarding arcane/divine enchantement charms, I'd be ok if they just went back 2e handling it through versatility. A Wizard casts a 'charm person' and the individual is their friend. Despite the various complaints about 2e psionics, under 2e your psionicist could in fact enter the mind of a plant and permanently make it thing that the sun was coming from the right hand side. Or see through the eyes of a squirrel on another planet at will. Not super useful but a good example of a really bizare use given the flexibility of telepathy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Haldrik 12-13-07, 10:19 AM	Quick question: Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics? Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience?
DracoPhoenix 12-13-07, 10:27 AM	Quick question: Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics? Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience? Telepathy thinks the psion(telepath) Telekinesis exclaims the psion(kenesist) Prescience forsees the psion(seer). It's like asking which best describes a fighter: The Power attack tree, The combat expertise tree, The point blank shot tree.
archerpwr 12-13-07, 10:41 AM	Telepathy thinks the psion(telepath) Telekinesis exclaims the psion(kenesist) Prescience forsees the psion(seer). It's like asking which best describes a fighter: The Power attack tree, The combat expertise tree, The point blank shot tree. Well said.
Alkthash 12-13-07, 11:22 AM	Psionics is the ability to tell reality to sit down and shut up with only the power of your mind. No silly words or hand gestures for the psion.
Bacris 12-13-07, 11:46 AM	I don't think Haldrik meant specific to 3.5 psionics mechanics, I think he meant in general.
DracoPhoenix 12-13-07, 11:59 AM	I don't think Haldrik meant specific to 3.5 psionics mechanics, I think he meant in general. If that was the case, it would still be a matter of individual interest, and for me that would be at least all 3. Going with the whole reality revision vein :)
Orenmir 12-13-07, 12:37 PM	Quick question: Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics? Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience? I will actually answer your question... Psychic Prescience. The first two are a part of Psionics; the third is Psionics. Afterall, you can be psionic without being telekinetic or telepathetic.
CrimsonDeath 12-13-07, 01:18 PM	Telepathy thinks the psion(telepath) Telekinesis exclaims the psion(kenesist) Prescience forsees the psion(seer). It's like asking which best describes a fighter: The Power attack tree, The combat expertise tree, The point blank shot tree. Yeah, because you left out Metacreativity, Psychoportation, and Psychometabolism. (Not to mention the Two Weapon Fighting tree, the Weapon Focus tree, the Improved Unarmed Strike tree, and the Mounted Combat tree.)
Fafnir 12-13-07, 01:27 PM	Afterall, you can be psionic without being telekinetic or telepathetic. Most psions wouldn't like being (tele)pathetic, indeed. :D
GuyrtheadamantineOne 12-13-07, 01:55 PM	Which best describes the essence of Psionics? A psionicist is an awakened dreamer. Some dreamers are extreme, others have more composure, but all learn to control their inner realms. Whether they sleep wild or calm shape their strength to make the universe bow to their will. Your eyes only show an illusion, a veil over reality. Shackled minds use fake ways, keys, to convince themselves they can change this veil to their tastes. Those are words, gests and objects without meaning to the free thinkers but gifted with so much powers by the fools. What they call magic is merely a crutch to escape the limits of their bounded logic. A child imagine he wields a sword. A man forge one to his taste. This is psionic fluff. It describe the best way I could what psionics are. There is no iconic psionic power, since it changes from source to source. And its even worse in D&D.
Orenmir 12-13-07, 01:59 PM	Most psions wouldn't like being (tele)pathetic, indeed. :D HA!! Nice catch. I like to make up words now and then. Remember Snigglets? I think "telepathetic" should be defined as a pathetic telepath. Or, maybe, a telepathic idiot.
Lycanthromancer 12-13-07, 02:37 PM	Or someone that takes levels in metamind.
sijigs 12-13-07, 04:25 PM	Or someone that takes levels in metamind. HAHAHAH. Or someone who constantly uses the Comp Psi. :p
InkBlot 12-13-07, 05:12 PM	Hey! I constantly use ComPsi. The Ardent and Lurk are nice classes, and a handful of the feats and powers are very useful too. Multiclass Ardent/Swordsage builds can duplicate a surprising number of anime characters. There is no iconic psionic power, since it changes from source to source. And its even worse in D&D. I couldn't agree more.
sijigs 12-13-07, 05:13 PM	Hey! I constantly use ComPsi. The Ardent and Lurk are nice classes, and a handful of the feats and powers are very useful too. Multiclass Ardent/Swordsage builds can duplicate a surprising number of anime characters. I couldn't agree more. Whooops. Sorry.. !!! :)
Slagger the Chuul 12-13-07, 09:57 PM	Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics? Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience? Psionics is the invisible power. By classic style its effects are intangible or unobservable, and the most modern examples involve control over powerful invisible forces (a legacy of the scientific discovery of properties like magnetism). Psychic prescience represents the oldest form of psionics; the witch or medium who operates by special knowledge as much as by direct force. Telekinesis is more representative of modern-age psionics; magnetism and gravity are its parents. Telepathy is somewhere between the two, reaching both in the extreme of its direction, from bizarre voices in the heads of madmen, to the inescapable communication of the powerful psion. All of these elements are present to some degree at all stages, they just vary in intensity.
DarkTouch 12-14-07, 01:29 PM	Its interesting how you've trimmed these down. Of the ones you have listed, Telepathy is the core psionic experience. Psychic Prescience was a close contenteder until I reliezed that it was only Prescience. The Sight (Which would include Prescience, Postscience, Ghost Sight, Telesight, Danger Sense, among others) is much more 'core' to the psionic experience. In an M&M game, I would question any psionic character who didn't have at least one super-sense.
ReaderOfPosts 12-14-07, 01:55 PM	I would eliminate prescience. To me, the flavor of the psion is internal control. He's not grappling with any mysteries of the universe, he's not begging boons of creatures with power beyond his imaginations: everything he does is because the psionicist can do it. On an unrelated note, that (and poor editing) was the biggest gaff in Complete Psionics: magic is great when you tie it to ancestral bloodlines and far off plains, but that's magic flavor, not psionic flavor. I'm strongly of the opinion that psionics should be at best trained, and at worst completely random.
DarkTouch 12-14-07, 02:00 PM	On an unrelated note, that (and poor editing) was the biggest gaff in Complete Psionics: magic is great when you tie it to ancestral bloodlines and far off plains, but that's magic flavor, not psionic flavor. I'm strongly of the opinion that psionics should be at best trained, and at worst completely random. I tend to go the opposite way with this. Psionics is the complete other side of the coin from Sorcerers. Sorcerers get their power because they had some power that they inheritted. New Psions are the founders of their bloodlines.. evolving out of their roots.
Haldrik 12-15-07, 12:31 PM	Supposing you could only choose one of these, which best describes the essence of Psionics? Telekinesis, telepathy, or psychic prescience? The question is difficult to answer because the term 'Psi' itself was coined to mean both 'psychokinesis' (telekinesis) and 'ESP' (telepathy and prescience including clairsentience). So far developers announced, especially in the 4e book Races and Classes, most of the Enchantment spells (= telepathy) will be removed from the Arcane power source (Wizard) and the Divine power source (Cleric) and given to the new Psi power source (Psion) that will be published in a future Players Handbook. Its good news, the developers are making room for Psi. Notably, the devs havent mentioned telekinesis (which seems to go to Arcane Evocation) or prescience (which seems to go to Divine Divination) will be Psi. As long as Psi classes can access telekinesis and divinition using the Psi power source, I dont see this as a problem. Then the various power sources are more or less identical to 'psionic disciplines'. Telekinesis and Divination are quintessentially Psi. If Psi classes cant access these, it seems problematic.
ReaderOfPosts 12-16-07, 12:30 PM	The thing is, it's not that they don't belong in different domains, but rather that they operate in different ways. Magical Enchantments I always envision the wizard chanting under his breath "Bewitch the mind, bewitch the soul; bereft of free will, thy strings I pull" A psionicist on the other hand, waltzes into the mind and deftly defeats his opponents psyche in battle. Once defeated, it's processes are open for him to rewire as he sees fit, likely to the advancement of his own goals.
DarkTouch 12-16-07, 09:05 PM	Despite them saying "tone down (read: Nerf) regarding arcane/divine enchantement charms, I'd be ok if they just went back 2e handling it through versatility. A Wizard casts a 'charm person' and the individual is their friend. Despite the various complaints about 2e psionics, under 2e your psionicist could in fact enter the mind of a plant and permanently make it thing that the sun was coming from the right hand side. Or see through the eyes of a squirrel on another planet at will. Not super useful but a good example of a really bizare use given the flexibility of telepathy.