Quintessance Question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Quintessance Question... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AwsomeSauce
01-13-08, 05:43 PM I was wondering, is the Quintessence created by the power of the same name the same substance that the Mind Flayers of Thoon seek?

Asking only because I have a Shaper with Illithid feats in my campaign, so this could potentially make for an interesting hook, should he take the power.
Jaid
01-13-08, 06:10 PM probably.

after all, how many different things are they going to name quintessence? you've already got the substance made by the power of the same name, and both are psionic. and it's the same as the old 2nd edition quintessence too, though the 2e power was called something else entirely, iirc.
InkBlot
01-13-08, 06:35 PM This is a problem with D&D in general. For example, if you throw a barrel of alchemist's fire at somebody then it's going to produce a fireball, but it's not going to produce a fireball. It gets worse with words which aren't commonly used in modern english.

The quintessence which the Thoon Mindflayer's seek could be --
quin·tes·sence (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=quintessence)
Pronunciation[kwin-tes-uhns]
–noun
1. the pure and concentrated essence of a substance.
2. the most perfect embodiment of something.
3. (in ancient and medieval philosophy) the fifth essence or element, ether, supposed to be the constituent matter of the heavenly bodies, the others being air, fire, earth, and water.

-- or it could be the 4th level shaper power, quintessence. Maybe the substance produced by quintessence is the same as the 3rd definition of quintessence.

Even if the shaper power is what they are after, it would be difficult to get. Illithids, as far as I know, can't be shapers (they have racial psion [telepath] levels). What shapers there are in the world can't manifest quintessence until they hit 8th level, and even then it's slow-going. and then how many of them are going to be willing to spend all their power points ever day just to manifest barrels and barrels of quintessence?

What book are Thoon Mindflayers in? I doubt they were written with the XPH in mind, but I don't know.
CrimsonDeath
01-13-08, 07:47 PM Even if the shaper power is what they are after, it would be difficult to get. Illithids, as far as I know, can't be shapers (they have racial psion [telepath] levels). What shapers there are in the world can't manifest quintessence until they hit 8th level, and even then it's slow-going. and then how many of them are going to be willing to spend all their power points ever day just to manifest barrels and barrels of quintessence?

On the other hand, the Mind Flayer of the XPH has powers as a level 9 Telepath, so just about any Mind Flayer could gain one level of something and just pick up Expanded Knowledge as its level 9 feat.
InkBlot
01-13-08, 08:14 PM D'oh
You're absolutely right. Anyway, these are Thoon Mindflayer's the OP is talking about. They may work completely differently, and might not even be allied with normal Mindflayers.
AwsomeSauce
01-13-08, 08:46 PM Thoon Mindflayers (is it one word?) are in MM5. And they aren't allied with normal Mindflayers, as there is artwork showing a Thoon Mindflayer holding the (severed?) head of another Illithid. It also says "Mindflayers of Thoon have vastly different agendas then normal Mindflayers" or something to that effect.

If the stuff created by the power and the stuff harvested by the Thoonies are the same, then one would assume that the power must have some other use. The Madcrafters of Thoon can create constructs with the stuff, so, in theory, why couldn't the player?

On another note, the power description says that any more than I believe it was a pound increases the power points needed to manifest powers, so would a Madcrafter have the same effect?
Jaid
01-13-08, 09:11 PM iirc, the mind flayers of thoon are from eberron.

as eberron ties in quite closely to psionics, i would tend to hope they didn't deliberately overlook the rather obvious power of the name quintessence which creates the substance quintessence.
Slagger the Chuul
01-13-08, 11:51 PM Since the quintessence favoured by the Thoon is different in appearance, produced differently, and apparently possessed of entirely different properties (considering how it's used), I'd be guessing that it's different to the material produced by the quintessence power.

It's not exactly a case of overlapping names, though, as seen with the first and second definitions of quintessence provided by InkBlot

1. the pure and concentrated essence of a substance.
2. the most perfect embodiment of something.
3. (in ancient and medieval philosophy) the fifth essence or element, ether, supposed to be the constituent matter of the heavenly bodies, the others being air, fire, earth, and water.

It's easy for one substance to be the quintessence of time (an essence or embodiment produced by the power), and the Thoon substance to be the quintessence of something entirely different. It's also possible that the Thoon substance is ether (this is unlikely for the quintessence power).
AntiDjinn
01-14-08, 02:26 AM It is another example of a word with a real world definition and a D&D definition. Quintessence is only Shaper 4, well within the grasp of any determined mind flayer with Expanded Knowledge or independent research. Once any single illithid has this power, he can stockpile the stuff since it doesn't even have an XP cost and lasts forever or until handled carelessly. Nothing that easy to obtain is going to be the object of a personal quest, much less a racial quest.
Gurv
01-14-08, 06:34 PM iirc, the mind flayers of thoon are from eberron.

as eberron ties in quite closely to psionics, i would tend to hope they didn't deliberately overlook the rather obvious power of the name quintessence which creates the substance quintessence.
No, they're not specific to Eberron. The descriptive information for the Mind Flayers of Thoon refers to Inner and Outer Planes, nautiloids, the Far Realm and other non-Eberron elements.

The "Thoon in Eberron" sidebar is poorly written as well. It completely overlooks the fact that mind flayers in Eberron are from Xoriat (similar to the Far Realm) and that they are trapped on Eberron and unable to return to their native plane. Thus it makes little sense for them to have traveled there or for them to be corrupted by doing so.
Jaid
01-14-08, 07:29 PM No, they're not specific to Eberron. The descriptive information for the Mind Flayers of Thoon refers to Inner and Outer Planes, nautiloids, the Far Realm and other non-Eberron elements.

The "Thoon in Eberron" sidebar is poorly written as well. It completely overlooks the fact that mind flayers in Eberron are from Xoriat (similar to the Far Realm) and that they are trapped on Eberron and unable to return to their native plane. Thus it makes little sense for them to have traveled there or for them to be corrupted by doing so.

hmmm... wonder where i got that from then.

of course, i should point out the flavor of the entire thing is screwed up though, as far as i can tell... illithids are from the future, not from another plane (and if you consider spelljammer to be canon, which any article referencing nautiloids should, they apparently originate in the astromundi cluster =S )
AwsomeSauce
01-14-08, 07:50 PM Of course Illithids are from the future. Just look at the evidence:

Alien-like appearance.
Undying hunger for intelligence, rather than food.
Robots. (Thoon Soldier, etc)
Tentacles are all the rage circa 2105.
Space ships.
Freakin' mind bullets.

Yep. Definetly from the future.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AwsomeSauce 01-13-08, 05:43 PM	I was wondering, is the Quintessence created by the power of the same name the same substance that the Mind Flayers of Thoon seek? Asking only because I have a Shaper with Illithid feats in my campaign, so this could potentially make for an interesting hook, should he take the power.
Jaid 01-13-08, 06:10 PM	probably. after all, how many different things are they going to name quintessence? you've already got the substance made by the power of the same name, and both are psionic. and it's the same as the old 2nd edition quintessence too, though the 2e power was called something else entirely, iirc.
InkBlot 01-13-08, 06:35 PM	This is a problem with D&D in general. For example, if you throw a barrel of alchemist's fire at somebody then it's going to produce a fireball, but it's not going to produce a fireball. It gets worse with words which aren't commonly used in modern english. The quintessence which the Thoon Mindflayer's seek could be -- quin·tes·sence (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=quintessence) Pronunciation[kwin-tes-uhns] –noun 1. the pure and concentrated essence of a substance. 2. the most perfect embodiment of something. 3. (in ancient and medieval philosophy) the fifth essence or element, ether, supposed to be the constituent matter of the heavenly bodies, the others being air, fire, earth, and water. -- or it could be the 4th level shaper power, quintessence. Maybe the substance produced by quintessence is the same as the 3rd definition of quintessence. Even if the shaper power is what they are after, it would be difficult to get. Illithids, as far as I know, can't be shapers (they have racial psion [telepath] levels). What shapers there are in the world can't manifest quintessence until they hit 8th level, and even then it's slow-going. and then how many of them are going to be willing to spend all their power points ever day just to manifest barrels and barrels of quintessence? What book are Thoon Mindflayers in? I doubt they were written with the XPH in mind, but I don't know.
CrimsonDeath 01-13-08, 07:47 PM	Even if the shaper power is what they are after, it would be difficult to get. Illithids, as far as I know, can't be shapers (they have racial psion [telepath] levels). What shapers there are in the world can't manifest quintessence until they hit 8th level, and even then it's slow-going. and then how many of them are going to be willing to spend all their power points ever day just to manifest barrels and barrels of quintessence? On the other hand, the Mind Flayer of the XPH has powers as a level 9 Telepath, so just about any Mind Flayer could gain one level of something and just pick up Expanded Knowledge as its level 9 feat.
InkBlot 01-13-08, 08:14 PM	D'oh You're absolutely right. Anyway, these are Thoon Mindflayer's the OP is talking about. They may work completely differently, and might not even be allied with normal Mindflayers.
AwsomeSauce 01-13-08, 08:46 PM	Thoon Mindflayers (is it one word?) are in MM5. And they aren't allied with normal Mindflayers, as there is artwork showing a Thoon Mindflayer holding the (severed?) head of another Illithid. It also says "Mindflayers of Thoon have vastly different agendas then normal Mindflayers" or something to that effect. If the stuff created by the power and the stuff harvested by the Thoonies are the same, then one would assume that the power must have some other use. The Madcrafters of Thoon can create constructs with the stuff, so, in theory, why couldn't the player? On another note, the power description says that any more than I believe it was a pound increases the power points needed to manifest powers, so would a Madcrafter have the same effect?
Jaid 01-13-08, 09:11 PM	iirc, the mind flayers of thoon are from eberron. as eberron ties in quite closely to psionics, i would tend to hope they didn't deliberately overlook the rather obvious power of the name quintessence which creates the substance quintessence.
Slagger the Chuul 01-13-08, 11:51 PM	Since the quintessence favoured by the Thoon is different in appearance, produced differently, and apparently possessed of entirely different properties (considering how it's used), I'd be guessing that it's different to the material produced by the quintessence power. It's not exactly a case of overlapping names, though, as seen with the first and second definitions of quintessence provided by InkBlot 1. the pure and concentrated essence of a substance. 2. the most perfect embodiment of something. 3. (in ancient and medieval philosophy) the fifth essence or element, ether, supposed to be the constituent matter of the heavenly bodies, the others being air, fire, earth, and water. It's easy for one substance to be the quintessence of time (an essence or embodiment produced by the power), and the Thoon substance to be the quintessence of something entirely different. It's also possible that the Thoon substance is ether (this is unlikely for the quintessence power).
AntiDjinn 01-14-08, 02:26 AM	It is another example of a word with a real world definition and a D&D definition. Quintessence is only Shaper 4, well within the grasp of any determined mind flayer with Expanded Knowledge or independent research. Once any single illithid has this power, he can stockpile the stuff since it doesn't even have an XP cost and lasts forever or until handled carelessly. Nothing that easy to obtain is going to be the object of a personal quest, much less a racial quest.
Gurv 01-14-08, 06:34 PM	iirc, the mind flayers of thoon are from eberron. as eberron ties in quite closely to psionics, i would tend to hope they didn't deliberately overlook the rather obvious power of the name quintessence which creates the substance quintessence. No, they're not specific to Eberron. The descriptive information for the Mind Flayers of Thoon refers to Inner and Outer Planes, nautiloids, the Far Realm and other non-Eberron elements. The "Thoon in Eberron" sidebar is poorly written as well. It completely overlooks the fact that mind flayers in Eberron are from Xoriat (similar to the Far Realm) and that they are trapped on Eberron and unable to return to their native plane. Thus it makes little sense for them to have traveled there or for them to be corrupted by doing so.
Jaid 01-14-08, 07:29 PM	No, they're not specific to Eberron. The descriptive information for the Mind Flayers of Thoon refers to Inner and Outer Planes, nautiloids, the Far Realm and other non-Eberron elements. The "Thoon in Eberron" sidebar is poorly written as well. It completely overlooks the fact that mind flayers in Eberron are from Xoriat (similar to the Far Realm) and that they are trapped on Eberron and unable to return to their native plane. Thus it makes little sense for them to have traveled there or for them to be corrupted by doing so. hmmm... wonder where i got that from then. of course, i should point out the flavor of the entire thing is screwed up though, as far as i can tell... illithids are from the future, not from another plane (and if you consider spelljammer to be canon, which any article referencing nautiloids should, they apparently originate in the astromundi cluster =S )
AwsomeSauce 01-14-08, 07:50 PM	Of course Illithids are from the future. Just look at the evidence: Alien-like appearance. Undying hunger for intelligence, rather than food. Robots. (Thoon Soldier, etc) Tentacles are all the rage circa 2105. Space ships. Freakin' mind bullets. Yep. Definetly from the future.