Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Skindrill422 08-13-07, 11:24 PM	i know the complete psionic is very poor but i was wondering if the races as classes in the the back of the book work???
Tempest Stormwind 08-13-07, 11:52 PM	i know the complete psionic is very broken but i was wondering if the races as classes in the the back of the book work??? It's not broken. It's just poor. There's a difference. Also, those races-as-classes were a waste of space. They're basically savage progressions, really.
Skindrill422 08-13-07, 11:54 PM	so would they work for just like one or two levels as githyanki
Tempest Stormwind 08-14-07, 12:03 AM	I'm hoping English isn't your first language. Read the book. They're basically "I want to play a githyanki but we're starting at level 1".
Skindrill422 08-14-07, 12:11 AM	dude harsh im just illiterate i suck at reading :(
runestar 08-14-07, 12:18 AM	Don't sweat it. I don't know how long I stared at those tables before the realization finally hit me - "Doh! They are SS progression tables!" :embarrass
munin 08-14-07, 11:43 AM	I'm hoping English isn't your first language. Skindrill422, there's absolutely nothing wrong with your language skills. I'd judge your posts to be in the upper percentile in terms of spelling and readability, and Tempest Stormwind's denigrating remark verges on the inappropriate. It's not the first time he's used this particular put-down. Remarks like this don't encourage people to contribute to this community, and the Wizard.Community's Code of Conduct summarizes by asking us to "... Treat other people ... just as you would treat them in person--politely". Did your original question get answered?
Tempest Stormwind 08-14-07, 11:50 AM	That's why I used that particular statement. If English is NOT his first language, it's quite clear. If it is, it's just sad (lack of punctuation, misuse of what punctuation's there, no capitalization, etc), and his communication suffers for it -- for instance, I can't even tell what his initial question actually was (the tables do work in that you can figure out ability staggering for a few levels. Whether the character you get will be worthwhile at all is questionable, and the tables *certainly* aren't as clear as a SS progression... I don't know if he was asking for clarification, optimization, or something completely different). I put exactly as much effort into my responses as people put into their questions. If you don't take the time to communicate properly, be prepared for me to not take the time to be polite, preferring bluntness -- and thus clarity of communication -- over the more time-consuming tact.
SlanderPanic 08-14-07, 12:38 PM	To answer his question, since he doesn't seem to understand how racial progressions work, the idea is to use these progressions if you want to play a level-adjusted race from level 1 on. Levels where you don't gain a class level are "virtual levels" where you get racial abilities instead of a class level. For example, if you wanted to play a githyanki psychic warrior in a 1st level game, you'd start with the listed githyanki base traits and the abilities of a 1st level psychic warrior. When you gain enough XPs for 2nd level, you don't get a level of psychic warrior, but you get some more racial abilities. When you gain enough XP for 3rd level, you gain some more racial abilities. At this point, you're an ECL 3 character with 1 level of psychic warrior, the same as a githyanki psychic warrior you'd make normally. The difference is that, instead of spending two levels playing a different character until the party got high enough for you to play the race you want, you got to develop and enjoy the character you want for two levels. When you gain enough XP for 4th level, you gain another class level and you continue gaining class levels from that point on. The only racial ability you haven't gained yet is psionic plane shift, and you'll get that at the same time any other githyanki would. You can't choose to take a level in githyanki and a level in something else because these are virtual levels, representing the maturation of your racial special abilities. You gain racial abilities and class levels at a fixed rate. By the same token, you can't multiclass the racial progressions. You can't, for example, take a level in githyanki and then a level in thri-kreen. You cannot choose to take fewer levels than the maximum in your racial progression. Also, Tempest, much as I'd like to defend grammatical snobbery, I cannot. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that some of the most intelligent and articulate people I've ever known -especially creative types, which this game naturally attracts- are horrible typists. I have one friend who is a brilliant craftsman, inventor, performer, and instructor. On a mailing list we're both on, someone new suggested we ban him for being a functional illiterate. His typing is that bad, but it's worth taking the time to decode. It's also important to consider the fact that many users of these boards are children, and that scaring those children (and newbies) off does a great disservice to our community.
munin 08-14-07, 01:30 PM	...If English is NOT his first language, it's quite clear... And if it's not, it's grossly insulting or demeaning (hence Skindrill422's natural reaction). These forums do not have a standard for language skill, only behavior, so people should be able to bring whatever online language patterns they're used to using and expect to have a conversation about D&D etc., not grammar. If you don't understand them, I suggest waiting to see if other people do (or are more willing to accommodate varying standards of communication), rather than jumping on the OP. Or just ask for a clarification, without denigrating their language skills. Anything less just brings down the tone and invites rancor. ...If it is, it's just sad (lack of punctuation, misuse of what punctuation's there, no capitalization, etc)... Can we hold you to a similar standard? May other community members correct your spelling and grammatical mistakes? I won't do it without your permission, since I think that would violate the Code of Conduct. Up front, I do editing as part of my job, and I don't hold myself to the same standard in online communication that I do in my work (and I don't believe other people should be held to it either -- but I'm asking if you're willing to be). Would you be willing to apologize when you're wrong? SlanderPanic: excellent response to the OP. Sorry to keep off-topic on this subject, but I guess I just hit my limit today. Your comment about younger community members is right on, and I'd also mention that it can take time to write perfect English, which posters shouldn't be required to spend to avoid attacks.
Tempest Stormwind 08-14-07, 02:13 PM	And if it's not, it's grossly insulting or demeaning (hence Skindrill422's natural reaction). These forums do not have a standard for language skill, only behavior, so people should be able to bring whatever online language patterns they're used to using and expect to have a conversation about D&D etc., not grammar. If you don't understand them, I suggest waiting to see if other people do (or are more willing to accommodate varying standards of communication), rather than jumping on the OP. Or just ask for a clarification, without denigrating their language skills. Anything less just brings down the tone and invites rancor. These forums *are* officially in English, however. Which means that it's assumed you can communicate in English. I'm perfectly capable of understanding if you aren't fluent in the language, but if you are and you still manage to communicate poorly, well, sucks to be you. I only mentioned it in one line, which wasn't insulting in and of itself. It was blunt. The internet is not conductive to subtleties in tone or other vocal cues, meaning that tact is essentially wasted anyway, and bluntness gets the point across clearer. I can't understand why people can't take things unless they're sugar-coated. Can we hold you to a similar standard? May other community members correct your spelling and grammatical mistakes? I won't do it without your permission, since I think that would violate the Code of Conduct. Up front, I do editing as part of my job, and I don't hold myself to the same standard in online communication that I do in my work (and I don't believe other people should be held to it either -- but I'm asking if you're willing to be). By all means. I also have worked as an editor, however, and even before that I had nigh-perfect spelling, grammar, and similar (it may sound arrogant, but it's the truth; apart from the occasional typo, I rarely make such mistakes). I take the time to write correctly the first time, which involves revising what I write on the go and thinking about it before I click "submit reply"... on every single post I make. In short, I *do* hold myself to the same standard that I expect of others. Even then, you'll note that I didn't actually attack the OP, instead choosing to bluntly state that I hoped his errors came from a lack of fluency (which is understandable) instead of a lack of effort (which is, in my eyes, inexcusable; if he wanted a response that requires effort, he should show similar effort in asking the question). Would you be willing to apologize when you're wrong? Of course. That said, seeing as you're accusing me of insulting Skindrill when I did nothing of the sort, I don't believe I'm in the wrong here. If you can successfully prove that I did, in fact, insult him, I will apologize. I do, however, apologize for continuing the off-topic.
Vengeful_Deity 08-14-07, 03:57 PM	These forums *are* officially in English, however. Which means that it's assumed you can communicate in English. I'm perfectly capable of understanding if you aren't fluent in the language, but if you are and you still manage to communicate poorly, well, sucks to be you. I only mentioned it in one line, which wasn't insulting in and of itself. It was blunt. The internet is not conductive to subtleties in tone or other vocal cues, meaning that tact is essentially wasted anyway, and bluntness gets the point across clearer. I can't understand why people can't take things unless they're sugar-coated. By all means. I also have worked as an editor, however, and even before that I had nigh-perfect spelling, grammar, and similar (it may sound arrogant, but it's the truth; apart from the occasional typo, I rarely make such mistakes). I take the time to write correctly the first time, which involves revising what I write on the go and thinking about it before I click "submit reply"... on every single post I make. In short, I *do* hold myself to the same standard that I expect of others. Even then, you'll note that I didn't actually attack the OP, instead choosing to bluntly state that I hoped his errors came from a lack of fluency (which is understandable) instead of a lack of effort (which is, in my eyes, inexcusable; if he wanted a response that requires effort, he should show similar effort in asking the question). Of course. That said, seeing as you're accusing me of insulting Skindrill when I did nothing of the sort, I don't believe I'm in the wrong here. If you can successfully prove that I did, in fact, insult him, I will apologize. I do, however, apologize for continuing the off-topic. Hrm. Yeah.... I've got a BA in English. Get over yourself. If he got his meaning across without anyone having to second guess his intentions and motivations then I would conclude he succeeded at using the language.
Endarrion 08-14-07, 04:03 PM	I think I'll quote an entire long, well-written, thoughtful post and then reply with one line of snarky insult. Or not.
Vengeful_Deity 08-14-07, 04:09 PM	I think I'll respond, without quoting, to a snarky response to a snarky response (only to bring more attention to the later and thereby validating its existance through acknowledgement).
Flamewarrior 08-14-07, 04:48 PM	Hrm. Yeah.... I've got a BA in English. Get over yourself. If he got his meaning across without anyone having to second guess his intentions and motivations then I would conclude he succeeded at using the language.What you don't seem to grasp is what'll happen when he writes a long post without using punctuation. Besides, it's funny to see you positing the needlessness of learning; also, at least Stormwind* didn't gloat over credentials - our point is made just from the POV of people who just care about what they write. *: not to mention I tend to correct every typo on for-presentation material (say, a class writeup) I read, and people like him thank me for it. Why? Because, again, they care about what they write. P.S.: I'm not really sure if continuing the off-topic trend is for the best, though.
Vengeful_Deity 08-14-07, 04:59 PM	What you don't seem to grasp is what'll happen when he writes a long post without using punctuation. Besides, it's funny to see you positing the needlessness of learning; also, at least Stormwind* didn't gloat over credentials - our point is made just from the POV of people who just care about what they write. *: not to mention I tend to correct every typo on for-presentation material (say, a class writeup) I read, and people like him thank me for it. Why? Because, again, they care about what they write. P.S.: I'm not really sure if continuing the off-topic trend is for the best, though. The world doesn't end at the end of a run on sentence, nor does it break apart at every comma splice. It is always the guys who post ten to fifteen times a day who pass those kinds of judgements on people. Why do they do that? Because for them these boards ARE a place for presentations and they find themselves disgusted (or insulted) by people who hastily toss up some words to get an answer to their question without taking the time to turn their post into a 200 page dissertation. That is why Stormwind here writes things like "The new 3.5 FAQ" (Which is FULL of condescending language itself). Now about the "flaunting" of my credentials, I was only avoiding the "you're no expert" comments that were sure to come. I've spent my time studying the language and it's fairly well known and taught in Linguistics classes that languages are amorphous, ever-changing creatures. Which is why when we speak we don't use the same language as when we write. The rules of written language are scores of years old and are never updated when the way people actually communicate changes. Commas and periods, while serving organizational functions, are also intended to signify pauses in spoken language. That is why you get so many comma splices at the entry college level. Students know there are rules about commas so they need to use them, but often they don't know the rules and so use speech as a crutch. It really is a flawed system of arbitrary rules and exceptions. As far as I'm concerned, forums in general are as casual as talking with friend and nobody should get their panties in a bunch about sloppy writing. We can't all win the Pulitzer.
Bacris 08-14-07, 05:05 PM	How do you get that the FAQ is condescending? I think you're reading condescension where none is, based upon your opinion of Tempest. Tempest may be blunt in his responses, but honestly, I couldn't ascertain what the OP was asking in his post, either. His question could have been interpreted in at least 2 different ways. And I'm also of the opinion that simply because web boards are on the internet doesn't give someone the right to not use proper grammar and spelling. Typos can and will happen, but all too often, it is accepted that someone posts with absolutely no attempt at grammar, spelling, or sentence structure and the posts are almost impossible to interpret - yet calling the individual out on this is considered to be "bad-form." Use of acronyms I can tolerate, especially in online chat, but bad grammar / spelling irks me almost as much as some of the other posters - the difference is, I usually just won't respond at all :)
Vengeful_Deity 08-14-07, 05:10 PM	browser issues.
Vengeful_Deity 08-14-07, 05:33 PM	How do you get that the FAQ is condescending? I think you're reading condescension where none is, based upon your opinion of Tempest. Thri-kreen Q: The thri-kreen seems to have a few psi-like abilities that aren't in the XPH. I know this can happen (like the duergar's invisibility), but here they explicitly call out "psionic displacement". A: Remember that errata file I keep mentioning? Yes, this, too, is answered there. This one in particular caught my eye. It stinks of know-it-all. The funny thing is, I didn't even notice who wrote the FAQ until after my first post in this thread. I went to the FAQ and looked for the stuff on Elans. I kept reading until I got to that line and then looked to see who wrote it. What do you know....
Bacris 08-14-07, 05:37 PM	I take that as comedy, not as condescending...
Meikle_641 08-14-07, 05:49 PM	Is there any chance the lot of you can please cool down and stop arguing? All this is going to end up doing is causing this to be locked and warning given out. The point of this thread is not punctuation (and I admit, the 1st post was a bit sloppy...), it's about the validity of the CPsi racial classes. Honestly, please just drop it and walk away.
CrimsonDeath 08-14-07, 06:09 PM	Hrm. Yeah.... I've got a BA in English. Get over yourself. If he got his meaning across without anyone having to second guess his intentions and motivations then I would conclude he succeeded at using the language. In that case, I'd say the OP failed, because I'm not sure what he wanted to know. Was he confused about how they're implemented in an ongoing game starting at level 1? Or did he want to know if the savage progressions were balanced against other characters of the same ECL? Both? Something else entirely? Something to consider is that this isn't IRC or an instant messenger or chat room. It's a message board. The posts are persistent-- they remain avialable for perusal for months on end-- and you can take as long as you want to create a post because nobody will know how long you took. Nobody knows whether you spent five minutes spell-checking, or just sat down and hammered out a response in twenty seconds.
Endarrion 08-14-07, 08:12 PM	I think I'll respond, without quoting, to a snarky response to a snarky response (only to bring more attention to the later and thereby validating its existance through acknowledgement). Let me just say that I saw this coming. Thanks for not disappointing. Not that anyone's right (we're all wrong) but I'm just glad that I was vindicated in my belief that no human being can resist the urge to point out the obvious irony in another's comment and burn them for it, while simultaneously trying to rectify a "problem" (validating the existence of a snarky comment). W00t for off topic-ness. EDIT: If he got his meaning across without anyone having to second guess his intentions and motivations then I would conclude he succeeded at using the language. Isn't the edit function lovely? Good job.
Nephlite 08-14-07, 08:36 PM	Thri-kreen Q: The thri-kreen seems to have a few psi-like abilities that aren't in the XPH. I know this can happen (like the duergar's invisibility), but here they explicitly call out "psionic displacement". A: Remember that errata file I keep mentioning? Yes, this, too, is answered there. This one in particular caught my eye. It stinks of know-it-all. The funny thing is, I didn't even notice who wrote the FAQ until after my first post in this thread. I went to the FAQ and looked for the stuff on Elans. I kept reading until I got to that line and then looked to see who wrote it. What do you know.... But why shouldn't one read the errata... It contains all the rules changes. However, Tempest has seem more snappy in his comments and they do seem lately to be taken badly. There are nicer ways of answering the OP though; I mean the OP doesn't write lines of typing that are almost unreadable (I've seen some before on this site). *shudder* Unreadable lines hurt. Although, bad grammer is never a good thing either.
Skindrill422 08-14-07, 08:47 PM	Listen i'll admit i'm illiterate I got my Question answered it took a lot of staring but i finally understand the columns, it has a racial and class column and it has like 1st level race and 1st level class I put the racial stuff with the class stuff and then next level I get 2nd level racial stuff but i wont Necessarily have a second class level and if i dont that means i get nothing from the character class
Bacris 08-14-07, 08:49 PM	Right. But I wouldn't say you're illiterate ;) unless you're using something like Dragon Naturally Speaking :D
Skindrill422 08-14-07, 09:06 PM	Well i understand now, I'm glad this will come in handy making my new character, my character died yesterday because my DM was being a jerk and out of no where a lighting bolt from thor doing 100d12 damge killed me and my in game brother for fighting.
Nibbler 08-14-07, 10:42 PM	If it is, it's just sad (lack of punctuation, misuse of what punctuation's there, no capitalization, etc) silence e.e. cummings silence .is a looking bird:the turn ing;edge of life (inquiry before snow
AntiDjinn 08-14-07, 11:00 PM	Well i understand now, I'm glad this will come in handy making my new character, my character died yesterday because my DM was being a jerk and out of no where a lighting bolt from thor doing 100d12 damge killed me and my in game brother for fighting. That being the case, it actually doesn't matter whether you understand racial character levels or not. Neither your knowledge of the game rules nor your ability to communicate with other adults in written form will have any bearing on your character's longevity -- lack of either was not the cause or your previous character's demise. You have a smiting DM who uses in-game events to deal with problems at the table, so only your ability to appease and avoid the fiat will matter. There is nothing you will find in the rules or on the boards that will bounce the 100d12 bolt from the blue at will, except maybe the advice to seek a different game.
Tempest Stormwind 08-14-07, 11:16 PM	silence e.e. cummings silence .is a looking bird:the turn ing;edge of life (inquiry before snow And people wonder why no one outside of poetry considers "poet" a valid career. I know six-year-olds capable of communicating clearer than Cummings. This (http://xkcd.com/169/) still applies; The second half in particular applies to so-called "avant garde" artists. Actually, don't take my word for it. According to Vengeful_Deity, an English major, "If he got his meaning across without anyone having to second guess his intentions and motivations then I would conclude he succeeded at using the language." Since that clearly isn't the case here, one can conclude that this is failing to use the language. Sorry, everyone, this is a *real* sore spot for me. I was a science geek who did not learn a thing from any English class I ever took, all the while churning out unplanned BS at the last possible second and still getting a 4.0 average in every last English course (I actually got better grades in English than I did in any physics course, despite my major in that field). Famously, I even won a significant sum of money in scholarships for "deep and creative poetry"... for a piece I wrote in under thirty minutes describing my walk home that day. All I did was use unconventional flowery language and hit Enter every time a new line started on The Last Saskatchewan Pirate, which I had playing in the background, in lieu of any formal structure or meter. English was a waste of time for me, and whenever I see **** like this lauded as a good thing, I feel that I have to take action, for I see it as nothing but a waste. Poetry's often the worst offender, but it is by no means the only one. If someone would be so kind as to tell me, straight-up, what functional purpose poetry (or any art, really) serves in society, without making any logical missteps along the way (including the oh-so-popular appeal to emotion), then I will revise my opinion straightaway. Fairly be ye warned, not a single arts student, major, graduate or professor (including English scholars at every level mentioned) has ever managed to do this to date; I would not call this a trivial task. On topic, now, AntiDjinn speaks words of truth and wisdom. The problem doesn't seem to be mechanical; it's just a bad DM. Either that or this was an isolated incident -- which I sincerely hope it was, since DMs who rain vengeance from above to get people to settle down tend to be a pain to play under.
Skindrill422 08-15-07, 02:47 AM	he was "stressed"we have two groups one of psionics and one of regular and hes been playing at night with the regular group and during the day with us and i guess not sleeping but me and another character were fighting and he threw a temper tantrum and my character died because of it. None the less i was told to rip up my character sheet so i need to make a new character and i dont know what kind of character i want now im thinking one of the following: Githyanki seer Mind Flayer-i dont know if the nazi DM will allow it because the SS is a 3.0 book Dromite Pyschic warrior Thri-Kreen Psychic Warrior Any suggestions?
MindFlayerZoidberg 08-15-07, 04:49 AM	And people wonder why no one outside of poetry considers "poet" a valid career. I know six-year-olds capable of communicating clearer than Cummings. This (http://xkcd.com/169/) still applies; The second half in particular applies to so-called "avant garde" artists. Actually, don't take my word for it. According to Vengeful_Deity, an English major, "If he got his meaning across without anyone having to second guess his intentions and motivations then I would conclude he succeeded at using the language." Since that clearly isn't the case here, one can conclude that this is failing to use the language. Sorry, everyone, this is a *real* sore spot for me. I was a science geek who did not learn a thing from any English class I ever took, all the while churning out unplanned BS at the last possible second and still getting a 4.0 average in every last English course (I actually got better grades in English than I did in any physics course, despite my major in that field). Famously, I even won a significant sum of money in scholarships for "deep and creative poetry"... for a piece I wrote in under thirty minutes describing my walk home that day. All I did was use unconventional flowery language and hit Enter every time a new line started on The Last Saskatchewan Pirate, which I had playing in the background, in lieu of any formal structure or meter. English was a waste of time for me, and whenever I see **** like this lauded as a good thing, I feel that I have to take action, for I see it as nothing but a waste. Poetry's often the worst offender, but it is by no means the only one. If someone would be so kind as to tell me, straight-up, what functional purpose poetry (or any art, really) serves in society, without making any logical missteps along the way (including the oh-so-popular appeal to emotion), then I will revise my opinion straightaway. Fairly be ye warned, not a single arts student, major, graduate or professor (including English scholars at every level mentioned) has ever managed to do this to date; I would not call this a trivial task. On topic, now, AntiDjinn speaks words of truth and wisdom. The problem doesn't seem to be mechanical; it's just a bad DM. Either that or this was an isolated incident -- which I sincerely hope it was, since DMs who rain vengeance from above to get people to settle down tend to be a pain to play under. What functional purpose does poetry (or any art, really) serves in society? I will give it a shot. Some of the first poetry ever recorded, in western civilization, were the oral traditions written down by Hesiod in his "Theogony", which recorded the early theology, mythology, and day to day life of the Greeks. Epic poems were used to entertain as well as educate, and the idea of being represented in these stories motivated and inspired great acts of heroism, even on those who did not value the intangible value of the arts. Flash foreword to the Peloponnesian Wars, and the famous stand of the 300 Spartans. Now, all bad ass cinematic exaggeration aside, this was one of the defining moments in western civilization. A panel of historians on the National Geographic stated that the last stand and sacrifice of the 300 Spartans unified a torn Greece, leading into their eventual victory over the Persians, and prospering as the founding society of Democracy, Art, and Music, which was spread throughout the world by Alexander The Great, leading to the functional societies of modern western culture. And the reason why the Spartans sacrificed their lives was to be represented in poems and song that would inspired future generations. I am not just pulling this out of popular culture as an example, I translated large sections of Herodotus' tale from Latin, I know the story backwards and forewords. This, I state, is a functional use of poetry from the past. Perhaps, it is just that the function of poetry has now changed, as we have new mediums of communication that have replaced poetry: radio, newspapers, television--poetry is now sometimes used to satisfy smaller populations of people with sciolistic tendencies. I forgive e e cummings more scattered poetry because I know he can write stuff like this: it is at moments after i have dreamed it is at moments after i have dreamed of the rare entertainment of your eyes, when (being fool to fancy) i have deemed with your peculiar mouth my heart made wise; at moments when the glassy darkness holds the genuine apparition of your smile (it was through tears always)and silence moulds such strangeness as was mine a little while; moments when my once more illustrious arms are filled with fascination, when my breast wears the intolerant brightness of your charms: one pierced moment whiter than the rest -turning from the tremendous lie of sleep i watch the roses of the day grow deep.
SlanderPanic 08-15-07, 11:01 AM	How many levels do you have to work with, Skin?
AntiDjinn 08-15-07, 12:04 PM	silence e.e. cummings silence .is a looking bird:the turn ing;edge of life (inquiry before snow Sometimes the critics get a bad case of the emperor's new clothes. Once an artist has been defined as a master of his craft his audience concludes that everything he creates must be a masterwork. If it doesn't stand up to the standards and conventions by which all other works are judged then they conclude that the standards themselves must be inapplicable. It was written/composed/painted by someone who turns out works acknowledged as great so it must be great and no one wants to appear unsophisticated enough to verbalize their dissatisfaction. But sometimes dross is just dross and every creator also creates material everyday that is simply flushed into the municipal sewage system (yes, even that sometimes gets served up to the audience, and sometimes it is eaten with a spoon). Occasionally, a brave soul who is willing to risk being called uncultured, will stand up and say: "Hey, he is just sitting at the piano and playing nothing, and we are being charged for it." or: "Hey, that is just a set of chromatic prints of a soup can label." Or, to quote Gary Larsen: "Hey, this is grass! We've been eating grass!" Harlan Ellison wrote ""Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman", yet he also wrote scripts for the Flying Nun. Are we to conclude that the later was a masterwork of unconventional science fiction because the former was?
Vengeful_Deity 08-15-07, 12:39 PM	Offtopic, but it must be said. Truthfully, the Cummings body of work is made up of of mostly structural poetry. The form of the poem is as much a part of its meaning as the words. But you are right, Cummings is a bad example. Poetry as a whole serves a multitude of purposes. Essentially what a poem is is distilled information, imagery, and meaning. You can look at a poem and see in it the dominant method of thought for a given time period. If you look at a peom by some of the Romantics, you'll find that nature plays an important part (usually). Poems can be used to commemorate an event, or you could write a poem to help yourself through a troubling time, or entertain someone. I'm sure you all listen to music with lyrics and I don't think you hold those same judgements about the 'words' to your favorite song. Poetry is meant to be enjoyed first and foremost. And a poem like those from Cummings are intended for an audience that enjoys that type of poem....sorta like how I don't like Country Music. And about your English classes in College, you were probably taking General Education survey classes or required writing classes. They aren't the major....just like I assume you wouldn't expect me claim that that Physics 101 class I took my freshman year was intended to teach me everything that Physics had to offer.
Skindrill422 08-15-07, 02:13 PM	How many levels do you have to work with, Skin? i have to start at level 1 the DM said to make are characters for fun and personality not power but i did that with my last character and i had a bunch of feats i didnt want to use and stuff so i really like the mind flayer but if the dm won't let me make one ill probly do the illithid heritage feats and go flayer spawn from the Cpsi with what ever character i end up makeing
SlanderPanic 08-15-07, 02:19 PM	Just as a caution, Illithid Heritage and the Flayerspawn Psychic are incredibly awful. Personally, I consider them a waste of paper.
Tempest Stormwind 08-15-07, 02:27 PM	removed by user
Skindrill422 08-15-07, 02:32 PM	Just as a caution, Illithid Heritage and the Flayerspawn Psychic are incredibly awful. Personally, I consider them a waste of paper. yeah i've heard that, i don't know im trying to stray away from just being a meat puppet and breaking and slaughtering everything
AntiDjinn 08-15-07, 02:42 PM	If you want to play a psion, then don't take a race with an LA or use racial hit dice. Racial substitution levels might be OK, if they are well-balanced; you may give up a few things, but your progression as a psion won't be impeded. Consider, with a +3 LA race, the benefits might look good at lower levels, but when your party is level 11 you will be manifesting at level 8. This means you could have 6th level powers, but won't. You could be throwing Disintegrate, Retrieve, Mind Switch, Greater Fabricate, etc. At this point, you will want to look at your racial specials and ask if any of them were ever better than these powers, and, if so, have they remained better? For a pure caster don't take a race with an LA (maybe +1 is OK) unless your DM allows an LA buy-off or the race actually advances your caster/manifester level. For a psychic warrior at +1 or even +2 LA race might be OK. Your powers are mainly self-buffs so you don't worry so much about the DC you can generate. Half-giant is an overall good choice for psychic warriors because Powerful Build is an ability that remains useful at higher levels (especially if your DM favors empowered Inuyasha weapons in the campaign). If better and better oversized weapons will be available, then the ability continues to scale with character level and is worth giving up one character/manifester level. Of course, if there is a race that you really really want to role play then go for it. Hang optimization and efficiency in favor of enjoying your character. Just be aware that other party members might not share your enthusiasm and might not feel you are earning your share of the XP. If it causes inter-party strife then your DM can always just smite you.
suomynonAyletamitlU 08-15-07, 06:39 PM	As long as we're talking about races with level adjustments, I might point out the optional rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) from the SRD that allow you to "buy back" your LA with XP. It's fairly costly... I think. I've never used it in a game I had to keep track of XP in, to be honest. But it might well be worth it. And shame on most of you for dragging the poor thread so far off topic. Threads have feelings too, you know. (Well, sentient threads have feelings, anyway. I guess most threads aren't sentient, but they would be, if they had any manners. Darned inconsiderate threads.)
Endarrion 08-15-07, 10:30 PM	I think that LAs (low ones anyway, +1 or +2) can be reduced rather easily with a little creativity by the DM and player. For instance, if a player in one of my campaigns wanted to play a goliath with no LA (they are normally LA +1 with no hitdice) I would have him drop the powerful build ability and maybe drop the strength from +4 to +2 (probably not though). Then, with feats that specify "A goliath qualifies by virtue of the powerful build racial trait" I would still let him take the feats. All he really loses is the ability to wield larger weapons which is enough of a nerf to warrant an LA reduction in my opinion. After reading the buyback rules linked above ... it just seems wrong. You still end up behind the other characters anyway (sure you can catch up but it doesn't seem like a real solution to me).
Changling_Bob 08-16-07, 09:03 AM	Sorry, everyone, this is a *real* sore spot for me. I was a science geek who did not learn a thing from any English class I ever took, all the while churning out unplanned BS at the last possible second and still getting a 4.0 average in every last English course (I actually got better grades in English than I did in any physics course, despite my major in that field). Famously, I even won a significant sum of money in scholarships for "deep and creative poetry"... for a piece I wrote in under thirty minutes describing my walk home that day. All I did was use unconventional flowery language and hit Enter every time a new line started on The Last Saskatchewan Pirate, which I had playing in the background, in lieu of any formal structure or meter. English was a waste of time for me, and whenever I see **** like this lauded as a good thing, I feel that I have to take action, for I see it as nothing but a waste. Poetry's often the worst offender, but it is by no means the only one. If someone would be so kind as to tell me, straight-up, what functional purpose poetry (or any art, really) serves in society, without making any logical missteps along the way (including the oh-so-popular appeal to emotion), then I will revise my opinion straightaway. Fairly be ye warned, not a single arts student, major, graduate or professor (including English scholars at every level mentioned) has ever managed to do this to date; I would not call this a trivial task. PROSTETNIC VOGON JELTZ So, what you're saying is that I write poetry because underneath my mean, callous, heartless exterior and beneath my blackened Vogon soul is the fact that I really just want to be loved? FORD laughs nervously. FORD Well, sure! I mean, don't we all, deep down? PROSTETNIC VOGON JELTZ gets to his feet, looks down, then back up. When he comes back up, he has resumed looking thoroughly unpleasant. PROSTETNIC VOGON JELTZ Well, you're wrong. I just write poetry to throw my mean, callous, heartless exterior and blackened Vogon soul into sharp relief. I'm going to throw you off the ship anyway. Guard! Take the prisoners to number three airlock and throw them out.This sums up my view of studying English wonderfully Also, regarding what poetry is for: I like silly and weird poetry, like Jabberwocky and On the Ning Nang Nong, just for silly and weirdnesses sakes. I also like haikus, where the idea is to cram as much detail as you can into its restrictive pattern. Alternatively: Hippopotamus Antihippopotamus Annihilation Kinda on topic: play something which is immune to electricty to avoid the same thing again :) Alternatively, one of my favorite classes for flavour is the soulknife, but perhaps that's just me. I have the idea of a character who just manifests eir knife to play with it stuck in my head.
SlanderPanic 08-16-07, 09:35 AM	Threads have feelings too, you know. (Well, sentient threads have feelings, anyway. I guess most threads aren't sentient, but they would be, if they had any manners. Darned inconsiderate threads.) Clearly, you were unaware that a 20th level psion used true mind switch on this thread. In psionic Russia, thread reads you.