Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lycanthromancer 09-11-07, 04:19 PM	I was playing in a game awhile back with a shaper that was using the crystal shard power. I'm fairly sure I know how rays work, but the DM apparently had different ideas. I was standing in a 5' wide corridor filled with darkness, and wanted to shoot a shard down the hallway, attempting to hit anything standing therein (as I knew there were enemies nearby, but didn't know exactly where). I figured I'd fire, and if it missed the first foe it would continue on its way down the corridor, and it would potentially hit other critters in the hallway. He said no, that if I missed the first available target, that was it. Am I misremembering this?
Salla 09-11-07, 04:23 PM	It would be logical, but that's not how D&D works. :) When shooting at things you can't detect, you pick a square. If the target happens to be in that square, you have a chance to hit it, but he gets a 50% miss chance for total concealment. If the target isn't in that square, nothing happens. D&D doesn't generally sweat the effect of missed shots in regard to friendly fire or collateral damage. A line effect, however, would have been perfect.
PhaedrusXY 09-11-07, 05:08 PM	You could have fired it beyond where you thought they were, and it would have worked as you'd wanted. If a magical projectile impacts an object before it reaches its "target", it damages whatever it impacts first. ;) Ray Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at. If you hit cover, you damage the cover. So yeah, it should have worked how you thought, but the rules justification for it is a bit weird.
Nom 09-11-07, 07:39 PM	RAW, you don't in general "hit cover", it merely messes up your shot. As a house rule, it doesn't seem unreasonable to blind-fire something (arrow, ray effect, ...) down a 5 ft. corridor, checking 50% concealment against each target until one is affected. Once one is affected, resolve the attack against that target. I'd probably assign a -4 penalty to the attack roll, since you're not really "aiming" at any given square, just shooting blindly in the hope something might get in the way. If the attack roll misses, it simply misses; you don't check against further targets.
PhaedrusXY 09-11-07, 11:32 PM	I'm pretty sure that there are rules on hitting and damaging cover if you roll well enough to have hit the target normally, but not well enough to hit it when it is taking cover. I don't remember where to find it, though.
Nom 09-12-07, 09:57 AM	I'm pretty sure that there are rules on hitting and damaging cover if you roll well enough to have hit the target normally, but not well enough to hit it when it is taking cover. I don't remember where to find it, though.DMG pg 24, optional rule sidebar. Or 3.0. The rules are mechanically broken, though, as well as being overly complex.
Asurya 09-12-07, 10:57 AM	why mechanically broken? more complex, sure thing but... it's quite weird in fact to check your roll against the target AC in lieu of the cover's one though... I think it's quite silly for a Cleave-guy to just screw his hit because the target had a last resort intervening model... the same could be done replacing the model by a piece of rock: you hit it and damage it to the point its hasa no HP left: no more an obstacle
rironin 09-12-07, 11:20 AM	why mechanically broken? more complex, sure thing but... it's quite weird in fact to check your roll against the target AC in lieu of the cover's one though... I think it's quite silly for a Cleave-guy to just screw his hit because the target had a last resort intervening model... the same could be done replacing the model by a piece of rock: you hit it and damage it to the point its hasa no HP left: no more an obstacleI think one of the reasons it's on shaky mechanical ground is because you're rolling to attack the creature and not the cover. What if the cover is alive? Shouldn't the cover be able to dodge? If you can't hit the target because of cover, but you also can't hit the covering creature's touch AC, what happens? Does the attack ignore the cover because it moved out of the way? Better to just assume that the AC bonus due to cover is because the attacker must aim around the cover, similar to the penalty for firing into melee without having the Precise Shot feat; the penalty to attack can represent the fact that you're making sure you don't hit your friends. Even though you wouldn't take the same care to avoid hitting a rock or an enemy creature that was providing cover, it's easier to adjudicate if you assume that there's no chance of actually hitting the cover.
Nom 09-12-07, 11:59 PM	why mechanically broken?Because your chance of hitting cover depends not just on the cover's AC, but on the cover's AC relative to the target's AC and the cover's Dodge bonus. For certain values of AC of cover relative to the target, it is either impossible to strike the cover or the cover resolution process can actually negate the cover bonus (ie it's as if the cover isn't there). This latter situation occurs if the cover's non-dodge AC is less than the target's AC but the cover's AC including dodge is greater than the target's AC +4. The mechanic has so many wierd corners and edge cases that you could use it as an abstract art coat-rack. In my book, that's broken.