re: is this legal? [Archive] - Wizards Community

re: is this legal? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ElyasRavenwood
05-27-07, 11:46 AM Is this Legal?
Can an erudite engage in independent research, spend the XP and the time in weeks, and then add the new power to his repertoire? Would he need to first Imprint the power on a power stone using the Imprint power stone feat, then learn it using the rules for adding a power to ones repertoire?

For example could an erudite, do independent research to create a Psion/Wilder version of the 1st level Psychic warrior Metaphysical weapon power by spending 1 week in meditation, spending 200 XP and making a psi-craft check DC 11? Then could he add the power to his repertoire? Or would he have to go through the process of imprinting a power stone, addressing it, making the psi-craft rolls, expending the exp to add it to his repertoire? Perhaps this is a bad example and the Psion/Wilder version should be a 2nd level power instead of a 1st level.

Any help and thoughts would be appreciated thanks.

P 64 of the EXP.

Independent research: A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one.
If the DM decides to allow characters to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.
Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conductive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. This experience point cost reflects the dangerous inner journey the character embarks upon. At the end of that time the character makes a Psi-craft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails the character must go through the research process again if she wished to keep trying.
The DM should work with the player before the research begins and give her guidance on the parameters under which an original power would be acceptable in the game (see creating new spells, page 35 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide for suggestions.) The DM is justified in ruling ahead of time that powers that invoke certain abilities such as time travel are never viable and thus powers associated with them cannot be successfully researched in the campaign. The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through research of original powers.

P154 of the Complete Psionic about the Eurdite

Learning discipline powers: an erudite can learn discipline powers only by directly learning a power form another’s repertoire, learning it through a power stone, or by taking the expanded knowledge feat. ………
No matter what the power’s source, the character must first make mental contact, (a process similar to addressing a power stone, requiring a psi-craft check DC of 15 + the highest- level power contained in the stone or the repertoire). He can make contact only with a willing psionic character or creature. (Unconscious creatures are considered willing. But not psionic characters under the effects of other immobilizing conditions)
Mental contact requires 1 round of physical contact. Once contact is achieved, the erudite becomes aware of all the powers stored in the power stone or all the powers known by the target up to the highest level of power the erudite knows himself (if the power’s host fails a will save DC 13+ Erudite’s Int Bonus)
Next the Erudite must make a psi-craft check (DC 15+ power’s level), for each power he is trying to learn to see if he understands that power. If the selected power is not on his class list or on any of the select discipline lists, he automatically fails this check.
If the Erudite fails this check the erudite cannot understand, manifest, or learn the power. He cannot attempt to manifest or learn it again, even if he studies it from another source until he gains another rank in psi-craft. If the power was being learned from a power stone, it does not vanish from the stone.
If the check succeeds, the erudite understands the selected power. He can attempt to manifest the power normally on his next turn, as described in expanded psionics handbook or he can attempt to permanently commit the power to his on repertoire.
Committing the power to repertoire
Once an erudite understands a new power through the procedure of contact described above he can learn it, permanently adding it to his repertoire.
Physical requirements: The erudite doesn’t need to keep the power stone or other psionic source nearby while he fixes the candidate power in his repertoire. However should he manifest any other power during the time requirement, he looses focus on the power to be added, forgoing the chance to learn that power until he gains at least one more rank in psi-craft.
Time: the process requires 8 hours regardless of the power’s level. During those 8 hours the erudite must remain in meditation
XP cost: to permanently learn a new power that is not one of the powers he learns automatically when gaining a level, he must expend 20 experience points per erudite level which are deducted from the character at the end of the meditation. At that time the erudite permanently knows the power and it is in his repertoire just like any other power he knows. An erudite cannot spend so much XP that he would loose a level. If he doesn’t have enough XP to spend on learning a power he can’t learn it until he gains more XP.
Jaid
05-27-07, 09:22 PM i'd trim down the complete psionic section a little, and link to the online SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/)instead of quoting the XPH personally, but that's just me.

in particular, while you can freely paraphrase copyrighted work to prove a point, you probably shouldn't directly quote such a large portion of text :P
anyways, i personally would allow an erudite to use direct research to add a power to their powers known list, which means they could then learn that power even if it was at their maximum power level known. they would still need to find a source for it though.
ElyasRavenwood
05-28-07, 01:45 AM Thank you for taking the time to answer Jaid. The link idea is a good one. It will save me lots of typing, and the reader a headache. ? I however do not know how to make a link. It is probably extraordinarily simple. Up here in Vermont some of us still use smoke signals to communicate ?

I am wondering if this means of independent research is too powerful. By simply sitting in a room for a couple of weeks, spending some experience, and making a few psi craft rolls, allows the character doing independent research to develop whatever power he wants in the EXP, or does it? What do you have in mind when “ they would still need to find a source for it though. “ I thought psionics were largely safely contained within the mind of the psionic manifester.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you
well anyways, i will try to cut down on the verbiage in my future posts.
Thank you
Sarlax
05-28-07, 05:53 PM Can an erudite engage in independent research, spend the XP and the time in weeks, and then add the new power to his repertoire? Would he need to first Imprint the power on a power stone using the Imprint power stone feat, then learn it using the rules for adding a power to ones repertoire?
I'd say yes, the erudite can research powers to add them to his list rather than hunt down individuals who possess the desired ability. He can make the Psicraft check normally and pay the normal XP cost.

"Any kind of manifester can create a new power."
"The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through research of original powers."

The first line clearly makes it possible for erudites to research powers. The second line suggests that erudites should pay the usual XP cost, since the number of powers they know is a function of how much XP they pay to learn them.
Jaid
05-28-07, 07:46 PM Thank you for taking the time to answer Jaid. The link idea is a good one. It will save me lots of typing, and the reader a headache. ? I however do not know how to make a link. It is probably extraordinarily simple. Up here in Vermont some of us still use smoke signals to communicate ?

I am wondering if this means of independent research is too powerful. By simply sitting in a room for a couple of weeks, spending some experience, and making a few psi craft rolls, allows the character doing independent research to develop whatever power he wants in the EXP, or does it? What do you have in mind when “ they would still need to find a source for it though. “ I thought psionics were largely safely contained within the mind of the psionic manifester.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you
well anyways, i will try to cut down on the verbiage in my future posts.
Thank youto make a link, click the little world button just above the text box. it will guide you through the process :P

(as a general rule, if you're pretty good at figuring out syntax, you can quote someone and see the format of what they did).

by "they would still need to find a source" i meant that it would be on their power list, but it wouldn't immediately become a power known. they could learn it when they level up, as if it were on the general psion/wilder power list rather than some class-specific list, but they wouldn't know it automatically.
ElyasRavenwood
05-28-07, 09:40 PM Jaid thank you for cueing me in on how to make a link.

I typed in a large quantity of text, because I did not think nor did I know how to make a link. I just thought it would be helpful, when exploring the meaning of some of the rules, to have the text handy. People often pick just the text that proves their point, without taking the whole text into account.

Concerning the Erudite using independent research to learn powers. I think you mean The Erudite can do his or her independent research to figure out a new power Then they can add the power to their class list. Then when they advance a level they can add the power to their repertoire through level advancement.
I suppose another method for amassing powers would be through using the trick involving the Psychic reformation power, the Expanded knowledge feat, and the imprint power stone feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElyasRavenwood 05-27-07, 11:46 AM	Is this Legal? Can an erudite engage in independent research, spend the XP and the time in weeks, and then add the new power to his repertoire? Would he need to first Imprint the power on a power stone using the Imprint power stone feat, then learn it using the rules for adding a power to ones repertoire? For example could an erudite, do independent research to create a Psion/Wilder version of the 1st level Psychic warrior Metaphysical weapon power by spending 1 week in meditation, spending 200 XP and making a psi-craft check DC 11? Then could he add the power to his repertoire? Or would he have to go through the process of imprinting a power stone, addressing it, making the psi-craft rolls, expending the exp to add it to his repertoire? Perhaps this is a bad example and the Psion/Wilder version should be a 2nd level power instead of a 1st level. Any help and thoughts would be appreciated thanks. P 64 of the EXP. Independent research: A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If the DM decides to allow characters to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation. Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conductive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. This experience point cost reflects the dangerous inner journey the character embarks upon. At the end of that time the character makes a Psi-craft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails the character must go through the research process again if she wished to keep trying. The DM should work with the player before the research begins and give her guidance on the parameters under which an original power would be acceptable in the game (see creating new spells, page 35 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide for suggestions.) The DM is justified in ruling ahead of time that powers that invoke certain abilities such as time travel are never viable and thus powers associated with them cannot be successfully researched in the campaign. The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through research of original powers. P154 of the Complete Psionic about the Eurdite Learning discipline powers: an erudite can learn discipline powers only by directly learning a power form another’s repertoire, learning it through a power stone, or by taking the expanded knowledge feat. ……… No matter what the power’s source, the character must first make mental contact, (a process similar to addressing a power stone, requiring a psi-craft check DC of 15 + the highest- level power contained in the stone or the repertoire). He can make contact only with a willing psionic character or creature. (Unconscious creatures are considered willing. But not psionic characters under the effects of other immobilizing conditions) Mental contact requires 1 round of physical contact. Once contact is achieved, the erudite becomes aware of all the powers stored in the power stone or all the powers known by the target up to the highest level of power the erudite knows himself (if the power’s host fails a will save DC 13+ Erudite’s Int Bonus) Next the Erudite must make a psi-craft check (DC 15+ power’s level), for each power he is trying to learn to see if he understands that power. If the selected power is not on his class list or on any of the select discipline lists, he automatically fails this check. If the Erudite fails this check the erudite cannot understand, manifest, or learn the power. He cannot attempt to manifest or learn it again, even if he studies it from another source until he gains another rank in psi-craft. If the power was being learned from a power stone, it does not vanish from the stone. If the check succeeds, the erudite understands the selected power. He can attempt to manifest the power normally on his next turn, as described in expanded psionics handbook or he can attempt to permanently commit the power to his on repertoire. Committing the power to repertoire Once an erudite understands a new power through the procedure of contact described above he can learn it, permanently adding it to his repertoire. Physical requirements: The erudite doesn’t need to keep the power stone or other psionic source nearby while he fixes the candidate power in his repertoire. However should he manifest any other power during the time requirement, he looses focus on the power to be added, forgoing the chance to learn that power until he gains at least one more rank in psi-craft. Time: the process requires 8 hours regardless of the power’s level. During those 8 hours the erudite must remain in meditation XP cost: to permanently learn a new power that is not one of the powers he learns automatically when gaining a level, he must expend 20 experience points per erudite level which are deducted from the character at the end of the meditation. At that time the erudite permanently knows the power and it is in his repertoire just like any other power he knows. An erudite cannot spend so much XP that he would loose a level. If he doesn’t have enough XP to spend on learning a power he can’t learn it until he gains more XP.
Jaid 05-27-07, 09:22 PM	i'd trim down the complete psionic section a little, and link to the online SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/)instead of quoting the XPH personally, but that's just me. in particular, while you can freely paraphrase copyrighted work to prove a point, you probably shouldn't directly quote such a large portion of text :P anyways, i personally would allow an erudite to use direct research to add a power to their powers known list, which means they could then learn that power even if it was at their maximum power level known. they would still need to find a source for it though.
ElyasRavenwood 05-28-07, 01:45 AM	Thank you for taking the time to answer Jaid. The link idea is a good one. It will save me lots of typing, and the reader a headache. ? I however do not know how to make a link. It is probably extraordinarily simple. Up here in Vermont some of us still use smoke signals to communicate ? I am wondering if this means of independent research is too powerful. By simply sitting in a room for a couple of weeks, spending some experience, and making a few psi craft rolls, allows the character doing independent research to develop whatever power he wants in the EXP, or does it? What do you have in mind when “ they would still need to find a source for it though. “ I thought psionics were largely safely contained within the mind of the psionic manifester. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you well anyways, i will try to cut down on the verbiage in my future posts. Thank you
Sarlax 05-28-07, 05:53 PM	Can an erudite engage in independent research, spend the XP and the time in weeks, and then add the new power to his repertoire? Would he need to first Imprint the power on a power stone using the Imprint power stone feat, then learn it using the rules for adding a power to ones repertoire? I'd say yes, the erudite can research powers to add them to his list rather than hunt down individuals who possess the desired ability. He can make the Psicraft check normally and pay the normal XP cost. "Any kind of manifester can create a new power." "The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through research of original powers." The first line clearly makes it possible for erudites to research powers. The second line suggests that erudites should pay the usual XP cost, since the number of powers they know is a function of how much XP they pay to learn them.
Jaid 05-28-07, 07:46 PM	Thank you for taking the time to answer Jaid. The link idea is a good one. It will save me lots of typing, and the reader a headache. ? I however do not know how to make a link. It is probably extraordinarily simple. Up here in Vermont some of us still use smoke signals to communicate ? I am wondering if this means of independent research is too powerful. By simply sitting in a room for a couple of weeks, spending some experience, and making a few psi craft rolls, allows the character doing independent research to develop whatever power he wants in the EXP, or does it? What do you have in mind when “ they would still need to find a source for it though. “ I thought psionics were largely safely contained within the mind of the psionic manifester. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you well anyways, i will try to cut down on the verbiage in my future posts. Thank youto make a link, click the little world button just above the text box. it will guide you through the process :P (as a general rule, if you're pretty good at figuring out syntax, you can quote someone and see the format of what they did). by "they would still need to find a source" i meant that it would be on their power list, but it wouldn't immediately become a power known. they could learn it when they level up, as if it were on the general psion/wilder power list rather than some class-specific list, but they wouldn't know it automatically.
ElyasRavenwood 05-28-07, 09:40 PM	Jaid thank you for cueing me in on how to make a link. I typed in a large quantity of text, because I did not think nor did I know how to make a link. I just thought it would be helpful, when exploring the meaning of some of the rules, to have the text handy. People often pick just the text that proves their point, without taking the whole text into account. Concerning the Erudite using independent research to learn powers. I think you mean The Erudite can do his or her independent research to figure out a new power Then they can add the power to their class list. Then when they advance a level they can add the power to their repertoire through level advancement. I suppose another method for amassing powers would be through using the trick involving the Psychic reformation power, the Expanded knowledge feat, and the imprint power stone feat.