Reality Revision and Power Points? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Reality Revision and Power Points? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psionx
10-05-07, 04:36 PM If a character dies, all daily power points stored in his mind are wiped away. A potent effect (such as reality revision) can recover the lost power points when it recovers the character.

So could a reality revision give a character full power points in exchange for 5000 XP?
InkBlot
10-05-07, 04:54 PM If man dies and is revived by psionic revivify then he will have not have any power points no matter how many he had immediately before he died. If man dies and is revived by reality revision then he will have as many power points as he did immediately before he died. That's what that passage means.

Entirely refilling your power point pool, as if you had slept overnight, is probably something that reality revision can do, but you'll have to hash it out with the DM and other players in your game.
Psionx
10-05-07, 06:32 PM Thx, its just that it I don't think a DM would allow a spellcaster to refill all of their spells with a wish/miracle. Well, I'll just see how it goes then.
hovnarr
10-05-07, 07:37 PM I think that would be a perfectly reasonable way to spend 5000 XP. You can Gate in 5 Titans for that amount. Will the spell power you regain be worth more than that? Besides, there's a video game precedent for this use of Wish in BG II: ToB.
AntiDjinn
10-05-07, 10:08 PM This would be well within the parameters of that power. In fact, if the powers you manifest with those points, before you next catch 8 hours of shuteye, do not net you at least 5KXP, then you are actually coming out behind as far as overall resources.

On the other hand, if you are in a situation where you are facing certain death if you don't pull off a trick like this, then every single XP you earn thereafter is owed to this one 5KXP expenditure.
Psionx
10-05-07, 10:50 PM Yes, but when you combine Master Dorje with a Dorje of Reality Revision then problems occur.

EDIT: O w8 50*5000=250000 XP for the 50 charges.
Bacris
10-05-07, 11:53 PM Yeah, items with reality revision / wish ain't exactly cheap ;)
AntiDjinn
10-06-07, 02:44 AM The market price for a newly made 9th level power dorje with 50 charges is 114,750 gp and costs its maker 4590 XP, assuming he is 17th level. The maker of a dorje of reality revision is certainly of much higher level. And the actual cost is astronomically higher.

For a dorje of reality revision the additional XP cost is 5000 X 50 charges = 250,000 XP on top of the base XP to make the item. The added gold piece cost is 1,250,000 on top of the base cost, and we haven't even adjusted yet for the fact that ML is much higher than 17.

What level manifester are we talking about when 250,000+ XP is less than the span between his current level and the next? Trust me, at those levels absolutely no one is holding off on one or more level gains to save up more than a quarter of a million XP to make an item to sell. Make that maybe sell; assuming anyone has the cash and wants the item. When your levels are in the stratosphere cash will seldom be a problem; there is no need to basically sell your level gains when you can just will resources into being. When you are that powerful there is next to nothing in which you can invest XP and other character resources that will pay off better than investing in yourself.

But assuming your DM has decided that some trans-epic psion made a dorje of RR just to sell it to you. The market cost is his ML X 9 X 750 gp + 1,250,000 gp. If you can afford this, then who, exactly, is messing with you to make a shortage of power points a problem?
Dracomorph
10-06-07, 03:34 AM I think you're forgetting that a character can choose not to gain a level immediately on getting enough XP to qualify for the next level. I've seen this mentioned a few times with magic items, and it is in exactly this sort of context that it's helpful.
AntiDjinn
10-06-07, 04:05 AM Yes, it is possible to forego gaining a level to accrue XP to make an item.

Have any of your personal characters ever done this to the tune of over a quarter of a million XP to make an item to sell or give away?

Has anyone's PC ever done this?

Why assume NPCs hold off on going up enough levels that they could be epic just to provide you with an item?

Look at the numbers again and think about it. We aren't talking about waiting a few extra weeks before taking a level. We are talking about an item that takes at least 254,590 XP to make, which is more than a 23rd level character has in total.

So what am I missing Dracomorph? A 21st level character has 210,000 XP spent on leveling. He decides to "not gain a level immediately" to amass 254,590 unspent XP for a total of 464,590 XP. That is just a fraction over what he needs to make 31st level. Can you "hold off" on 10 level gains? What does a 21st level character gain by doing this that he could not have tenfold by being 31st level?

Seriously people, if the DM ever lets the party have a dorje of RR (or any item that was at 50 charges when newly-made and costs an extra 5KXP per charge) then it is just because he has decided to hand you a boon from the gods, not because his campaign features NPCs who could have legitimately crafted the thing using the same rules that are available to PCs.
hovnarr
10-06-07, 06:54 AM Can you even make a dorje of 9th level powers? I thought they were tied to the same restrictions as wands, i.e. max 4th level powers.
InkBlot
10-06-07, 10:41 AM Dorjes have no such silly restrictions. You can make dorjes of any power level.
Dracomorph
10-06-07, 03:05 PM As a separate defense of the item's existence, it has been stated and restated that NPCs making items follow different rules than PCs do.

Not that I would buy the thing anyway. It's still a waste of money.
Psionx
10-07-07, 03:40 AM Actually if you got a dorje of RR and Master Dorje as well as mind blank (psionic) and temporal acceleration you have infinite money or as much time as you are willing to spend IRL to make:

Level 21
21-11=10/4=2.5
3 rounds in temporal acceleration and overlap them
manifest TA
master dorje to make money
manifest TA
master dorje to make money
...
manifest TA
master dorje to resupply all power points
manifest TA
master dorje to make money
...
Seriously, never worry about money making again...
Although someone is probably going to show a combo that does this anyway...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psionx 10-05-07, 04:36 PM	If a character dies, all daily power points stored in his mind are wiped away. A potent effect (such as reality revision) can recover the lost power points when it recovers the character. So could a reality revision give a character full power points in exchange for 5000 XP?
InkBlot 10-05-07, 04:54 PM	If man dies and is revived by psionic revivify then he will have not have any power points no matter how many he had immediately before he died. If man dies and is revived by reality revision then he will have as many power points as he did immediately before he died. That's what that passage means. Entirely refilling your power point pool, as if you had slept overnight, is probably something that reality revision can do, but you'll have to hash it out with the DM and other players in your game.
Psionx 10-05-07, 06:32 PM	Thx, its just that it I don't think a DM would allow a spellcaster to refill all of their spells with a wish/miracle. Well, I'll just see how it goes then.
hovnarr 10-05-07, 07:37 PM	I think that would be a perfectly reasonable way to spend 5000 XP. You can Gate in 5 Titans for that amount. Will the spell power you regain be worth more than that? Besides, there's a video game precedent for this use of Wish in BG II: ToB.
AntiDjinn 10-05-07, 10:08 PM	This would be well within the parameters of that power. In fact, if the powers you manifest with those points, before you next catch 8 hours of shuteye, do not net you at least 5KXP, then you are actually coming out behind as far as overall resources. On the other hand, if you are in a situation where you are facing certain death if you don't pull off a trick like this, then every single XP you earn thereafter is owed to this one 5KXP expenditure.
Psionx 10-05-07, 10:50 PM	Yes, but when you combine Master Dorje with a Dorje of Reality Revision then problems occur. EDIT: O w8 50*5000=250000 XP for the 50 charges.
Bacris 10-05-07, 11:53 PM	Yeah, items with reality revision / wish ain't exactly cheap ;)
AntiDjinn 10-06-07, 02:44 AM	The market price for a newly made 9th level power dorje with 50 charges is 114,750 gp and costs its maker 4590 XP, assuming he is 17th level. The maker of a dorje of reality revision is certainly of much higher level. And the actual cost is astronomically higher. For a dorje of reality revision the additional XP cost is 5000 X 50 charges = 250,000 XP on top of the base XP to make the item. The added gold piece cost is 1,250,000 on top of the base cost, and we haven't even adjusted yet for the fact that ML is much higher than 17. What level manifester are we talking about when 250,000+ XP is less than the span between his current level and the next? Trust me, at those levels absolutely no one is holding off on one or more level gains to save up more than a quarter of a million XP to make an item to sell. Make that maybe sell; assuming anyone has the cash and wants the item. When your levels are in the stratosphere cash will seldom be a problem; there is no need to basically sell your level gains when you can just will resources into being. When you are that powerful there is next to nothing in which you can invest XP and other character resources that will pay off better than investing in yourself. But assuming your DM has decided that some trans-epic psion made a dorje of RR just to sell it to you. The market cost is his ML X 9 X 750 gp + 1,250,000 gp. If you can afford this, then who, exactly, is messing with you to make a shortage of power points a problem?
Dracomorph 10-06-07, 03:34 AM	I think you're forgetting that a character can choose not to gain a level immediately on getting enough XP to qualify for the next level. I've seen this mentioned a few times with magic items, and it is in exactly this sort of context that it's helpful.
AntiDjinn 10-06-07, 04:05 AM	Yes, it is possible to forego gaining a level to accrue XP to make an item. Have any of your personal characters ever done this to the tune of over a quarter of a million XP to make an item to sell or give away? Has anyone's PC ever done this? Why assume NPCs hold off on going up enough levels that they could be epic just to provide you with an item? Look at the numbers again and think about it. We aren't talking about waiting a few extra weeks before taking a level. We are talking about an item that takes at least 254,590 XP to make, which is more than a 23rd level character has in total. So what am I missing Dracomorph? A 21st level character has 210,000 XP spent on leveling. He decides to "not gain a level immediately" to amass 254,590 unspent XP for a total of 464,590 XP. That is just a fraction over what he needs to make 31st level. Can you "hold off" on 10 level gains? What does a 21st level character gain by doing this that he could not have tenfold by being 31st level? Seriously people, if the DM ever lets the party have a dorje of RR (or any item that was at 50 charges when newly-made and costs an extra 5KXP per charge) then it is just because he has decided to hand you a boon from the gods, not because his campaign features NPCs who could have legitimately crafted the thing using the same rules that are available to PCs.
hovnarr 10-06-07, 06:54 AM	Can you even make a dorje of 9th level powers? I thought they were tied to the same restrictions as wands, i.e. max 4th level powers.
InkBlot 10-06-07, 10:41 AM	Dorjes have no such silly restrictions. You can make dorjes of any power level.
Dracomorph 10-06-07, 03:05 PM	As a separate defense of the item's existence, it has been stated and restated that NPCs making items follow different rules than PCs do. Not that I would buy the thing anyway. It's still a waste of money.
Psionx 10-07-07, 03:40 AM	Actually if you got a dorje of RR and Master Dorje as well as mind blank (psionic) and temporal acceleration you have infinite money or as much time as you are willing to spend IRL to make: Level 21 21-11=10/4=2.5 3 rounds in temporal acceleration and overlap them manifest TA master dorje to make money manifest TA master dorje to make money ... manifest TA master dorje to resupply all power points manifest TA master dorje to make money ... Seriously, never worry about money making again... Although someone is probably going to show a combo that does this anyway...