Recharge Varient for Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Recharge Varient for Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Incendius
09-01-07, 05:29 PM Hey everyone, I wanted to request your opinions on a recharge variant for Psionics.

This game is being run on the Recharge Magic variant, and we wanted to create something that was close to it.

I don't doubt that this is somewhat out of line, but I tried to make it close to what Recharge Magic would be.

I know this doesn't work for Psychic warriors, but thats a different issue.

If anyone could please critique this, we would be immensely thankful.

A Psion has power points equal to 1.5x his manifestor level + his int bonus.

Every round he regains power points equal to 1/4 of his int bonus (minimum one) He cannot regain power points over his maximum capacity.

When a Psion uses a power he regains power points at the start of every round equal to 1/4 the power points spent for four rounds.
Thomar_of_Uointer
09-01-07, 06:06 PM Hey everyone, I wanted to request your opinions on a recharge variant for Psionics.

This game is being run on the Recharge Magic variant, and we wanted to create something that was close to it.

I don't doubt that this is somewhat out of line, but I tried to make it close to what Recharge Magic would be.

I know this doesn't work for Psychic warriors, but thats a different issue.

If anyone could please critique this, we would be immensely thankful.

A Psion has power points equal to 1.5x his manifestor level + his int bonus.

Every round he regains power points equal to 1/4 of his int bonus (minimum one) He cannot regain power points over his maximum capacity.

When a Psion uses a power he regains power points at the start of every round equal to 1/4 the power points spent for four rounds.

Far too few. A high-level wizard can cycle through level 9-6 spells, and he casts them all at his caster level.

I would say the psion's power point pool is equal to his manifester level plus his Intelligence modifier (wilders get ML + Cha mod, similar to psions, psywars get manifester level - 1 + Wis mod), and he regains an amount of power points equal to his manifester level - 2 each round (wilders get the same, while psywars regain 1/3 their ML). At level 1, a manifester regains a power point every third round, and at level 2 he regains power points every other round.

Wild Talent would only improve your pool by 1 power point, and characters without manifester levels don't recharge in combat. You'd have to tone down many of the psionic races' power point bonuses.

Anyways, I'd say that this is a kludgy way to do this. Psionics doesn't mix well with recharge magic.
Ra-Tiel
09-01-07, 06:46 PM [...] Anyways, I'd say that this is a kludgy way to do this. Psionics doesn't mix well with recharge magic.
I agree, but under the premise that you try to copy magic recharge as closely as possible. For a computer game this gradual, round-by-round recharge may work because the machine's doing all the work for you in the background, but at the gaming table it becomes a bookkeeping nightmare.

However, there may be an alternative. Instead of recharging a small PP pool each round, have a larger PP pool recharge per minute or per 10 minutes or even per hour. Not only does this seriously cut down the necessary bookkeeping, but also allows for more fine tuning and balancing as you have larger numbers to play with.
Thomar_of_Uointer
09-01-07, 09:29 PM I agree, but under the premise that you try to copy magic recharge as closely as possible. For a computer game this gradual, round-by-round recharge may work because the machine's doing all the work for you in the background, but at the gaming table it becomes a bookkeeping nightmare.

However, there may be an alternative. Instead of recharging a small PP pool each round, have a larger PP pool recharge per minute or per 10 minutes or even per hour. Not only does this seriously cut down the necessary bookkeeping, but also allows for more fine tuning and balancing as you have larger numbers to play with.

Well, if you do that, you may as well be using 4th edition, right? 4th edition will have spells grouped into the most powerful per-day effects, middle-range per-encounter effects, and weak at will effects, probably defined by spell level.
Doomed_Penguin
09-01-07, 09:40 PM As much as I LOVE the idea of psionics recharging, you'd basically have to write a new system for it. The rules for magic recharge just don't translate.
Ra-Tiel
09-02-07, 04:36 AM Well, if you do that, you may as well be using 4th edition, right? 4th edition will have spells grouped into the most powerful per-day effects, middle-range per-encounter effects, and weak at will effects, probably defined by spell level.
Maybe, but with one major difference: this here wouldn't require us to wait 8 more months. ;)
Incendius
09-02-07, 10:55 AM Thanks for all the feedback guys! I've got to go look over the system and I'll take it all into what you said.

Its not as pressing now though.

Its a good idea not to pick up strange lockets while scouting alone in a dungeon; you might get hit by shadows (max of 8 strength damage on the first hit, a pixie with only 8 strength.)

Still, I've got to look over it for future characters ;)
TikiMan
09-02-07, 11:23 PM I've been using a /encounter system for psionics for a while now. The basics of it are: give the manifester 30% of their normal PP pool for manifesting, and 15% for keeping up buff powers (powers with a duration measured in 10min/lvl or higher). After any given 'encounter' the player has to rest for a few minutes and the PP come back.

The system requires some cooperation between player and DM to define 'encounter' and 'a few minutes', but I haven't had a problem with that so far. Even had a DM invent a 'second wind' rule when he threw multiple encounters back to back (I made a fort save a regained that % of my PP, max 30%). Also had a few players try to abuse the system by manifesting a lot in their downtime, until one of them caught cascade flu, and another was hunted by Thought Eaters, and another time assassins (hired by local smiths who were being put out of business) attacked any time the players were low on PP. I find that being [vile] to people abusing the rules nips problems in the bud. :D

Not too sure how this stacks up compared to Recharge Magic. From what I've read and heard though, you should probably just let the psion use as many PP as he wants whenever he wants and forget about game balance. :rolleyes:
Thomar_of_Uointer
09-03-07, 12:17 AM Hmm... Okay, I've been stewing over this, and I have an idea that may fit better.

The psion gets a power point pool whose size is equal to his manifester level (wilders and psywars get the same). This pool completely fills at the start of the psion's action. However, each time he manifests a power, the pool's size decreases by 1 power point (2 for psychic warriors). If the psion does not manifest in a round, the pool's size resets to his manifester level.

This is simple, it fulfils the job of keeping the psion from going nuts with his unlimited power usage, but still keeps him on par with other spellcasters as he has to spend a round to recharge. It also keeps psionics sufficiently "different".
Ra-Tiel
09-03-07, 04:22 AM Hmm... Okay, I've been stewing over this, and I have an idea that may fit better.

The psion gets a power point pool whose size is equal to his manifester level (wilders and psywars get the same). This pool completely fills at the start of the psion's action. However, each time he manifests a power, the pool's size decreases by 1 power point (2 for psychic warriors). If the psion does not manifest in a round, the pool's size resets to his manifester level.
How does the psion's/wilder's/psywar's key ability play into this? Preparing casters still benefit greatly in Recharge Magic, as the additional slots gained from a high key ability allow then added flexibility. So, do manifesters still gain bonus PPs for having a high key ability? :thinks:

Also, while highlevel powers are generally weaker than highlevel spells, this variant still allows for spamming eg tornado blasts, which is something expressively prevented for spells by the Recharge Magic system. While I don't think it was much of a problem, this gives manifesters a defintivie advantage over spellcasters. Just saying. ;)

This is simple, it fulfils the job of keeping the psion from going nuts with his unlimited power usage, but still keeps him on par with other spellcasters as he has to spend a round to recharge. It also keeps psionics sufficiently "different".
However, you still have to track an additional thing on a "per round" basis, if the maximum size reduces or increases. It seems simple enough, but it's just another page in the bookkeeping catalogue.
munin
09-03-07, 09:46 AM If you're going to use a recharge mechanic, consider reducing durations by one step: inertial armor becomes 10 min./level, thicken skin becomes 1 min./level, animal affinity becomes 1 round/level, expansion becomes, what, 1 round/4 levels (rounded up)? etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Incendius 09-01-07, 05:29 PM	Hey everyone, I wanted to request your opinions on a recharge variant for Psionics. This game is being run on the Recharge Magic variant, and we wanted to create something that was close to it. I don't doubt that this is somewhat out of line, but I tried to make it close to what Recharge Magic would be. I know this doesn't work for Psychic warriors, but thats a different issue. If anyone could please critique this, we would be immensely thankful. A Psion has power points equal to 1.5x his manifestor level + his int bonus. Every round he regains power points equal to 1/4 of his int bonus (minimum one) He cannot regain power points over his maximum capacity. When a Psion uses a power he regains power points at the start of every round equal to 1/4 the power points spent for four rounds.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-01-07, 06:06 PM	Hey everyone, I wanted to request your opinions on a recharge variant for Psionics. This game is being run on the Recharge Magic variant, and we wanted to create something that was close to it. I don't doubt that this is somewhat out of line, but I tried to make it close to what Recharge Magic would be. I know this doesn't work for Psychic warriors, but thats a different issue. If anyone could please critique this, we would be immensely thankful. A Psion has power points equal to 1.5x his manifestor level + his int bonus. Every round he regains power points equal to 1/4 of his int bonus (minimum one) He cannot regain power points over his maximum capacity. When a Psion uses a power he regains power points at the start of every round equal to 1/4 the power points spent for four rounds. Far too few. A high-level wizard can cycle through level 9-6 spells, and he casts them all at his caster level. I would say the psion's power point pool is equal to his manifester level plus his Intelligence modifier (wilders get ML + Cha mod, similar to psions, psywars get manifester level - 1 + Wis mod), and he regains an amount of power points equal to his manifester level - 2 each round (wilders get the same, while psywars regain 1/3 their ML). At level 1, a manifester regains a power point every third round, and at level 2 he regains power points every other round. Wild Talent would only improve your pool by 1 power point, and characters without manifester levels don't recharge in combat. You'd have to tone down many of the psionic races' power point bonuses. Anyways, I'd say that this is a kludgy way to do this. Psionics doesn't mix well with recharge magic.
Ra-Tiel 09-01-07, 06:46 PM	[...] Anyways, I'd say that this is a kludgy way to do this. Psionics doesn't mix well with recharge magic. I agree, but under the premise that you try to copy magic recharge as closely as possible. For a computer game this gradual, round-by-round recharge may work because the machine's doing all the work for you in the background, but at the gaming table it becomes a bookkeeping nightmare. However, there may be an alternative. Instead of recharging a small PP pool each round, have a larger PP pool recharge per minute or per 10 minutes or even per hour. Not only does this seriously cut down the necessary bookkeeping, but also allows for more fine tuning and balancing as you have larger numbers to play with.
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-01-07, 09:29 PM	I agree, but under the premise that you try to copy magic recharge as closely as possible. For a computer game this gradual, round-by-round recharge may work because the machine's doing all the work for you in the background, but at the gaming table it becomes a bookkeeping nightmare. However, there may be an alternative. Instead of recharging a small PP pool each round, have a larger PP pool recharge per minute or per 10 minutes or even per hour. Not only does this seriously cut down the necessary bookkeeping, but also allows for more fine tuning and balancing as you have larger numbers to play with. Well, if you do that, you may as well be using 4th edition, right? 4th edition will have spells grouped into the most powerful per-day effects, middle-range per-encounter effects, and weak at will effects, probably defined by spell level.
Doomed_Penguin 09-01-07, 09:40 PM	As much as I LOVE the idea of psionics recharging, you'd basically have to write a new system for it. The rules for magic recharge just don't translate.
Ra-Tiel 09-02-07, 04:36 AM	Well, if you do that, you may as well be using 4th edition, right? 4th edition will have spells grouped into the most powerful per-day effects, middle-range per-encounter effects, and weak at will effects, probably defined by spell level. Maybe, but with one major difference: this here wouldn't require us to wait 8 more months. ;)
Incendius 09-02-07, 10:55 AM	Thanks for all the feedback guys! I've got to go look over the system and I'll take it all into what you said. Its not as pressing now though. Its a good idea not to pick up strange lockets while scouting alone in a dungeon; you might get hit by shadows (max of 8 strength damage on the first hit, a pixie with only 8 strength.) Still, I've got to look over it for future characters ;)
TikiMan 09-02-07, 11:23 PM	I've been using a /encounter system for psionics for a while now. The basics of it are: give the manifester 30% of their normal PP pool for manifesting, and 15% for keeping up buff powers (powers with a duration measured in 10min/lvl or higher). After any given 'encounter' the player has to rest for a few minutes and the PP come back. The system requires some cooperation between player and DM to define 'encounter' and 'a few minutes', but I haven't had a problem with that so far. Even had a DM invent a 'second wind' rule when he threw multiple encounters back to back (I made a fort save a regained that % of my PP, max 30%). Also had a few players try to abuse the system by manifesting a lot in their downtime, until one of them caught cascade flu, and another was hunted by Thought Eaters, and another time assassins (hired by local smiths who were being put out of business) attacked any time the players were low on PP. I find that being [vile] to people abusing the rules nips problems in the bud. :D Not too sure how this stacks up compared to Recharge Magic. From what I've read and heard though, you should probably just let the psion use as many PP as he wants whenever he wants and forget about game balance. :rolleyes:
Thomar_of_Uointer 09-03-07, 12:17 AM	Hmm... Okay, I've been stewing over this, and I have an idea that may fit better. The psion gets a power point pool whose size is equal to his manifester level (wilders and psywars get the same). This pool completely fills at the start of the psion's action. However, each time he manifests a power, the pool's size decreases by 1 power point (2 for psychic warriors). If the psion does not manifest in a round, the pool's size resets to his manifester level. This is simple, it fulfils the job of keeping the psion from going nuts with his unlimited power usage, but still keeps him on par with other spellcasters as he has to spend a round to recharge. It also keeps psionics sufficiently "different".
Ra-Tiel 09-03-07, 04:22 AM	Hmm... Okay, I've been stewing over this, and I have an idea that may fit better. The psion gets a power point pool whose size is equal to his manifester level (wilders and psywars get the same). This pool completely fills at the start of the psion's action. However, each time he manifests a power, the pool's size decreases by 1 power point (2 for psychic warriors). If the psion does not manifest in a round, the pool's size resets to his manifester level. How does the psion's/wilder's/psywar's key ability play into this? Preparing casters still benefit greatly in Recharge Magic, as the additional slots gained from a high key ability allow then added flexibility. So, do manifesters still gain bonus PPs for having a high key ability? :thinks: Also, while highlevel powers are generally weaker than highlevel spells, this variant still allows for spamming eg tornado blasts, which is something expressively prevented for spells by the Recharge Magic system. While I don't think it was much of a problem, this gives manifesters a defintivie advantage over spellcasters. Just saying. ;) This is simple, it fulfils the job of keeping the psion from going nuts with his unlimited power usage, but still keeps him on par with other spellcasters as he has to spend a round to recharge. It also keeps psionics sufficiently "different". However, you still have to track an additional thing on a "per round" basis, if the maximum size reduces or increases. It seems simple enough, but it's just another page in the bookkeeping catalogue.
munin 09-03-07, 09:46 AM	If you're going to use a recharge mechanic, consider reducing durations by one step: inertial armor becomes 10 min./level, thicken skin becomes 1 min./level, animal affinity becomes 1 round/level, expansion becomes, what, 1 round/4 levels (rounded up)? etc.