Rechargeing Psionic Items Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rechargeing Psionic Items Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andramadus
06-30-07, 12:50 AM I have read all the psionic material and I see absolutely no reference that states power stones cannot be recharged. Here's what the book says:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#recharging

Recharging
Most power point storage devices allow psionic characters to “recharge” the item with their own power points. Doing this depletes the character’s power point reserve on a 1-for-1 basis as if he had manifested a power; however, those power points remain indefinitely stored. The opposite is not true—psionic characters may not use power points stored in a storage item to replenish their own power point reserves.

So I do believe power stones can be recharged.
If someone has information in a book stating otherwise please post it.
InkBlot
06-30-07, 12:54 AM Power Stones are not power point storage devices. Power Stones, Dorjes, Tattoos, and Psicrowns can not be recharged.

Cognizance Crystals are the only published power points storage devices. The paragraph on recharging only applies to Cognizance Crystals.
Andramadus
06-30-07, 01:02 AM They can store more than one power, thus the storage. How do they store these powers? With power points.

How about a page number or something other than opinion. As I see it now it looks as though you are making assumptions, just pointing out another point of view.
BloodSpill
06-30-07, 01:06 AM You're totally missing the point.

Power stones are analogues to scrolls. They are one use items. They are not power point storage devices, cognizant crystals are.

Just because it doesn't say "you can't recharge a power stone" doesn't mean you can. There is no rules mechanism for doing so.
InkBlot
06-30-07, 01:21 AM They can store more than one power, thus the storage. How do they store these powers? With power points.

This is besides the point, but... no, they don't store the powers with power points. Power stones have charges, not power points. If you have a 5d6 energy ray and a 1st level astral construct stored in a power stone, you can't choose to manifest a 2nd level construct and a 3d6 energy ray instead. This is because power stones don't use power points.

In fact, the only item that does store powers using power points is Psicrowns.

But that's still besides the point. Neither of them can be recharged, because neither of them say they can be, and because neither of them are listed as power point storage devices.

Cognizance Crystals, on the other hand, are specifically stated as being power point storage devices, and state precisely that they can be recharged.
Tempest Stormwind
06-30-07, 01:22 AM Power stones are like scrolls. They do not store power POINTS. They store POWERS. "Recharging" means encoding the same power again after having spent it, with the commensurate XP and GP costs.
Andramadus
06-30-07, 01:27 AM What would be the cost to create power stones that could be recharged?
Tempest Stormwind
06-30-07, 01:50 AM What would be the cost to create power stones that could be recharged?

Fundamentally, that's similar to a mindstone (Untapped Potential).
Andramadus
06-30-07, 01:57 AM Fundamentally, that's similar to a mindstone (Untapped Potential).

Can you be a bit more clear where can I find mind stone? Book & Page #
AntiDjinn
06-30-07, 02:55 AM Mind Stones are in Untapped Potential (Dreamscarred press) page 161. They do function as power point storage devices, whereas power stones are power storage devices and thus the section on recharging does not apply.
Tempest Stormwind
06-30-07, 12:12 PM Well, in truth, a mindstone holds a power, not power points.

However, if you wanted a rechargable power stone, that's effectively an item that lets you manifest a power you don't know using your own power points. This is exactly what a mindstone is.
Zarreth_Nessad
06-30-07, 12:17 PM In fact, the only item that does store powers using power points is Psicrowns.

But that's still besides the point. Neither of them can be recharged, because neither of them say they can be, and because neither of them are listed as power point storage devices.

Cognizance Crystals, on the other hand, are specifically stated as being power point storage devices, and state precisely that they can be recharged.

(IMO) That is not besides the point. According to the rules on recharging devices that store power points, you can recharge them on a 1-for-1 basis. Therefore Psicrowns, as devices that store power points, can be recharged (although some of them recharge themselves if given enough time, anyways).

Note that this is just how I run things. If you want to say that they can't because they don't specify that they can, that's your choice (if you're the DM).
Tempest Stormwind
06-30-07, 01:15 PM (IMO) That is not besides the point. According to the rules on recharging devices that store power points, you can recharge them on a 1-for-1 basis. Therefore Psicrowns, as devices that store power points, can be recharged (although some of them recharge themselves if given enough time, anyways).

Note that this is just how I run things. If you want to say that they can't because they don't specify that they can, that's your choice (if you're the DM).

Except that psicrowns don't store power points. They are made with power points but their role isn't to hold power points, it's to hold powers.

We debated this until our heads turned blue (well, rather, the entire forum sided with this except one very loud member) several months ago, and recently the Sage actually answered it:
Q: Dear Sage
Can psicrowns or dorjes be recharged?
--Mark

A: No. Just like a wand, staff, or any other charged item, once a psicrown or dorje’s charges are exhausted, the item loses its special powers and becomes worthless.
Zarreth_Nessad
06-30-07, 01:23 PM Interesting. I don't normally go to the Sage Advice for rulings on Psionics. It's kind of like asking Cust. Serv. But ok.
RadicalTaoist
06-30-07, 01:25 PM I missed that debate. Thankfully.
forsaken1111
07-03-07, 09:26 AM Slightly off topic, but what would you recommend the pricing be for a combo Mindstone/Congizance Crystal?

For example, if I wanted to create a single crystal which could orbit my head and store the Body Adjustment power as a mindstone, and hold 5 power points as a cognizance crystal.

Would you think adding the costs together and multiplying by 1.5 be sufficient and fair? Too much? Too little? It doesn't seem terribly broken to me, the only advantage is not having to hold the cognizance crystal in your hand to draw out the power points.
Andramadus
07-04-07, 07:46 AM Sounds fine to me. Just add the costs and ask your DM he will probably ok it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andramadus 06-30-07, 12:50 AM	I have read all the psionic material and I see absolutely no reference that states power stones cannot be recharged. Here's what the book says: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#recharging Recharging Most power point storage devices allow psionic characters to “recharge” the item with their own power points. Doing this depletes the character’s power point reserve on a 1-for-1 basis as if he had manifested a power; however, those power points remain indefinitely stored. The opposite is not true—psionic characters may not use power points stored in a storage item to replenish their own power point reserves. So I do believe power stones can be recharged. If someone has information in a book stating otherwise please post it.
InkBlot 06-30-07, 12:54 AM	Power Stones are not power point storage devices. Power Stones, Dorjes, Tattoos, and Psicrowns can not be recharged. Cognizance Crystals are the only published power points storage devices. The paragraph on recharging only applies to Cognizance Crystals.
Andramadus 06-30-07, 01:02 AM	They can store more than one power, thus the storage. How do they store these powers? With power points. How about a page number or something other than opinion. As I see it now it looks as though you are making assumptions, just pointing out another point of view.
BloodSpill 06-30-07, 01:06 AM	You're totally missing the point. Power stones are analogues to scrolls. They are one use items. They are not power point storage devices, cognizant crystals are. Just because it doesn't say "you can't recharge a power stone" doesn't mean you can. There is no rules mechanism for doing so.
InkBlot 06-30-07, 01:21 AM	They can store more than one power, thus the storage. How do they store these powers? With power points. This is besides the point, but... no, they don't store the powers with power points. Power stones have charges, not power points. If you have a 5d6 energy ray and a 1st level astral construct stored in a power stone, you can't choose to manifest a 2nd level construct and a 3d6 energy ray instead. This is because power stones don't use power points. In fact, the only item that does store powers using power points is Psicrowns. But that's still besides the point. Neither of them can be recharged, because neither of them say they can be, and because neither of them are listed as power point storage devices. Cognizance Crystals, on the other hand, are specifically stated as being power point storage devices, and state precisely that they can be recharged.
Tempest Stormwind 06-30-07, 01:22 AM	Power stones are like scrolls. They do not store power POINTS. They store POWERS. "Recharging" means encoding the same power again after having spent it, with the commensurate XP and GP costs.
Andramadus 06-30-07, 01:27 AM	What would be the cost to create power stones that could be recharged?
Tempest Stormwind 06-30-07, 01:50 AM	What would be the cost to create power stones that could be recharged? Fundamentally, that's similar to a mindstone (Untapped Potential).
Andramadus 06-30-07, 01:57 AM	Fundamentally, that's similar to a mindstone (Untapped Potential). Can you be a bit more clear where can I find mind stone? Book & Page #
AntiDjinn 06-30-07, 02:55 AM	Mind Stones are in Untapped Potential (Dreamscarred press) page 161. They do function as power point storage devices, whereas power stones are power storage devices and thus the section on recharging does not apply.
Tempest Stormwind 06-30-07, 12:12 PM	Well, in truth, a mindstone holds a power, not power points. However, if you wanted a rechargable power stone, that's effectively an item that lets you manifest a power you don't know using your own power points. This is exactly what a mindstone is.
Zarreth_Nessad 06-30-07, 12:17 PM	In fact, the only item that does store powers using power points is Psicrowns. But that's still besides the point. Neither of them can be recharged, because neither of them say they can be, and because neither of them are listed as power point storage devices. Cognizance Crystals, on the other hand, are specifically stated as being power point storage devices, and state precisely that they can be recharged. (IMO) That is not besides the point. According to the rules on recharging devices that store power points, you can recharge them on a 1-for-1 basis. Therefore Psicrowns, as devices that store power points, can be recharged (although some of them recharge themselves if given enough time, anyways). Note that this is just how I run things. If you want to say that they can't because they don't specify that they can, that's your choice (if you're the DM).
Tempest Stormwind 06-30-07, 01:15 PM	(IMO) That is not besides the point. According to the rules on recharging devices that store power points, you can recharge them on a 1-for-1 basis. Therefore Psicrowns, as devices that store power points, can be recharged (although some of them recharge themselves if given enough time, anyways). Note that this is just how I run things. If you want to say that they can't because they don't specify that they can, that's your choice (if you're the DM). Except that psicrowns don't store power points. They are made with power points but their role isn't to hold power points, it's to hold powers. We debated this until our heads turned blue (well, rather, the entire forum sided with this except one very loud member) several months ago, and recently the Sage actually answered it: Q: Dear Sage Can psicrowns or dorjes be recharged? --Mark A: No. Just like a wand, staff, or any other charged item, once a psicrown or dorje’s charges are exhausted, the item loses its special powers and becomes worthless.
Zarreth_Nessad 06-30-07, 01:23 PM	Interesting. I don't normally go to the Sage Advice for rulings on Psionics. It's kind of like asking Cust. Serv. But ok.
RadicalTaoist 06-30-07, 01:25 PM	I missed that debate. Thankfully.
forsaken1111 07-03-07, 09:26 AM	Slightly off topic, but what would you recommend the pricing be for a combo Mindstone/Congizance Crystal? For example, if I wanted to create a single crystal which could orbit my head and store the Body Adjustment power as a mindstone, and hold 5 power points as a cognizance crystal. Would you think adding the costs together and multiplying by 1.5 be sufficient and fair? Too much? Too little? It doesn't seem terribly broken to me, the only advantage is not having to hold the cognizance crystal in your hand to draw out the power points.
Andramadus 07-04-07, 07:46 AM	Sounds fine to me. Just add the costs and ask your DM he will probably ok it.