Researching New Powers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Researching New Powers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mesiolan
07-19-07, 10:21 AM From the SRD:

Independent Research
A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.
Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying.

Quote end.

Some questions:

Are the newly created powers in addition to the known powers by level of the psion, or are they included in the powers by level? May a psion of lv. 9 have more than 19 powers (barring a certain lv. 17 lv telepath surgeon)?

Is a psion allowed to research a power on a discipline list, if he/she pays XP with the above method (not spending the feat Expanded Knowledge)?

How do you handle research in your campaigns?

Thank you!
runestar
07-19-07, 10:28 AM Any researched powers still count towards your limit of powers known. It would be useless in my games, since our DM allows access to any power in his power list (if a player wanted a unique power, he would discuss it with the DM. If the DM said yes, he could just add it, without having to research it. If not, no amount of research would succeed.)
munin
07-19-07, 10:45 AM The popular understanding is that powers from independent research count towards your powers known and powers from Expanded Knowledge are in addition to your powers known.

For my games, the only thing that independent research does is add a power to your class list (either a power from another class list, including discipline lists, or a new power you design with the DM). If you conduct the research as part of your level-up, you can immediately select it as one of your powers gained. If you conduct the research in the middle of a level, you wait until your next level-up to learn it.

Here was a good thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=847556) about interpretations of independent research and Expanded Knowledge.
AntiDjinn
07-19-07, 10:52 AM Researching a new power simply makes it available to be learned (adds it to your class list) you still need to spend a slot to actually know it. For this reason, most manifesters do research right before a level up. Alternately, you could use Psychic Reformation to trade a power known for the new one you just created.

You can also use this method to port a power from one discipline to another. For example, a nomad who wants to learn Redopsi without spending a feat could research a new power that duplicates its effect by warping space rather than rebounding supernatural energy. Hopefully, in so doing you make enough changes to make your new power unique and flavorful, instead of a cut and paste.
JoshuaZ
07-19-07, 07:26 PM Most people at least on these boards are of the opinion that research simply adds to your class list and you can then take it at your next level up. I've always thought that it makes more sense both flavor-wise and arguably RAW-wise to read it as adding a new power immediately that does not count towards your number known. Tis rule interpretation does not terribly alter balance and helps make psions parallel to wizards slightly more (although of course psionics is still much more balanced than arcane magic).
AntiDjinn
07-19-07, 11:03 PM It seems to be the opinion of many on these boards that the XPH says: "The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through the research of additional powers." (page 64). That would be the rules as written.
Fafnir
07-20-07, 06:32 AM It seems to be the opinion of many on these boards that the XPH says: "The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through the research of additional powers." (page 64). That would be the rules as written.

Not to mention it would be consistent with the rules for spontaneous magic in this regard.
Andramadus
07-20-07, 08:34 AM JoshuaZ
Most people at least on these boards are of the opinion that research simply adds to your class list and you can then take it at your next level up. I've always thought that it makes more sense both flavor-wise and arguably RAW-wise to read it as adding a new power immediately that does not count towards your number known. Tis rule interpretation does not terribly alter balance and helps make psions parallel to wizards slightly more (although of course psionics is still much more balanced than arcane magic).

An Erudite has no limit on the powers he can learn. He could essentially research new powers and add them to his list with the normal XP costs, and is a psion variant.　

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mesiolan 07-19-07, 10:21 AM	From the SRD: Independent Research A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation. Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying. Quote end. Some questions: Are the newly created powers in addition to the known powers by level of the psion, or are they included in the powers by level? May a psion of lv. 9 have more than 19 powers (barring a certain lv. 17 lv telepath surgeon)? Is a psion allowed to research a power on a discipline list, if he/she pays XP with the above method (not spending the feat Expanded Knowledge)? How do you handle research in your campaigns? Thank you!
runestar 07-19-07, 10:28 AM	Any researched powers still count towards your limit of powers known. It would be useless in my games, since our DM allows access to any power in his power list (if a player wanted a unique power, he would discuss it with the DM. If the DM said yes, he could just add it, without having to research it. If not, no amount of research would succeed.)
munin 07-19-07, 10:45 AM	The popular understanding is that powers from independent research count towards your powers known and powers from Expanded Knowledge are in addition to your powers known. For my games, the only thing that independent research does is add a power to your class list (either a power from another class list, including discipline lists, or a new power you design with the DM). If you conduct the research as part of your level-up, you can immediately select it as one of your powers gained. If you conduct the research in the middle of a level, you wait until your next level-up to learn it. Here was a good thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=847556) about interpretations of independent research and Expanded Knowledge.
AntiDjinn 07-19-07, 10:52 AM	Researching a new power simply makes it available to be learned (adds it to your class list) you still need to spend a slot to actually know it. For this reason, most manifesters do research right before a level up. Alternately, you could use Psychic Reformation to trade a power known for the new one you just created. You can also use this method to port a power from one discipline to another. For example, a nomad who wants to learn Redopsi without spending a feat could research a new power that duplicates its effect by warping space rather than rebounding supernatural energy. Hopefully, in so doing you make enough changes to make your new power unique and flavorful, instead of a cut and paste.
JoshuaZ 07-19-07, 07:26 PM	Most people at least on these boards are of the opinion that research simply adds to your class list and you can then take it at your next level up. I've always thought that it makes more sense both flavor-wise and arguably RAW-wise to read it as adding a new power immediately that does not count towards your number known. Tis rule interpretation does not terribly alter balance and helps make psions parallel to wizards slightly more (although of course psionics is still much more balanced than arcane magic).
AntiDjinn 07-19-07, 11:03 PM	It seems to be the opinion of many on these boards that the XPH says: "The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through the research of additional powers." (page 64). That would be the rules as written.
Fafnir 07-20-07, 06:32 AM	It seems to be the opinion of many on these boards that the XPH says: "The number of powers that all psionic classes can know is strictly limited; manifesters can never exceed those limits even through the research of additional powers." (page 64). That would be the rules as written. Not to mention it would be consistent with the rules for spontaneous magic in this regard.
Andramadus 07-20-07, 08:34 AM	JoshuaZ Most people at least on these boards are of the opinion that research simply adds to your class list and you can then take it at your next level up. I've always thought that it makes more sense both flavor-wise and arguably RAW-wise to read it as adding a new power immediately that does not count towards your number known. Tis rule interpretation does not terribly alter balance and helps make psions parallel to wizards slightly more (although of course psionics is still much more balanced than arcane magic). An Erudite has no limit on the powers he can learn. He could essentially research new powers and add them to his list with the normal XP costs, and is a psion variant.