Post/Author/DateTime	Post
razorangel 05-14-07, 01:57 PM	I'm writing a lot of flavor text in here so that you guys don't think I'm trying to power game or anything. If you don't want to read that, then just skip to the bolded question down below. Okay, so I play in this really elaborate game that has two sides, on which one week, the "good" group plays, and on our week, the "evil" group plays. Because of dramatic effects, the "evil" group wound up warping into the future of this world, and this enabled me to play a psionic character, from another campaign. Confused yet? Well just hang on. My character is a 12 year old boy (read, Psion, Telepath). He was created by a corporation to serve as a "mole" amongst psions, who were considered evil, traitors, and the like, in order to destroy them eventually. But when the corporation that made him was destroyed, his cybernetic implant which controlled a good portion of his thoughts stopped making him hate Psions, and he started gaining good control of his power. Anyway, two years in game have passed, and he suddenly runs into these guys who are all dressed like they're from the Rennaisance Festival, and so he immediately tries to befriend them. He's hyper intelligent, and already an experienced psion, so it doesn't really phase him too much that one of them is a Demon, and that a couple of them are undead. He's never encountered such far out creatures before, but he's coping on dealing with them. Well, the group wants to take a trip into the long forgotten Underdark, where we are given an order by a Drow Matron that we have to go and sabotoge an Illithid city. Of course, this is a fool's errand, and she's just sending us to die. A big problem arises though, when the Demon gets it in his head that he has to kill the little boy (note: Out of game personal rivalry = in game results). The boy was just trying to demonstrate his power, so he made a Soul Drinker in the party play patty-cake (something harmless and innocent in his mind) with the demon's sister. Of course the half-sister nearly dies from level drain. But he doesn't realize what he's done, and tries to apologize, and everything. Of course, the Demon still wants to kill him. After the two decide to make ammends, the group goes to the Illithid city and just decides to outright storm it. The Demon posseses some rocks and becomes a collosal rock golem type thing. The mages in the group do their thing. And the little boy's thrallherd army just shoots with their guns. All in all, mostly narrated, and very fun and dramatic, the battle wages pretty long, but eventually we get on the winning end. In the midst of the fight, the little boy gets the idea to get into the Demon's head (since it would be impossible for him to tell who was shooting the psionics at him in the midst of battling mind-flayers), and just make sure that they're "cool." Upon doing so, the boy discovers that the demon has already laid plans to have his sister attack the little boy at some point after the fight, and trap his soul in a soul-stealing knife. So the little boy usurps domination of the Demon, and just lets him think he still is in control, and forget that during the battle, a psionic ability was used on him. Which he does. And so later on, the little boy seizes control of the sister, and just commands mentally the demon to face a wall; a mundane action. And the sister to stab her brother in the back, trapping his soul in the knife. And then takes the other knife she has (also soul-stealing) and asks her to lay down, and then "puts her to sleep." Then the little boy vaporizes both bodies with Disintegrate, and is now deciding what to do with the daggers. Eventually he'll make a demi-plane, put them there, and forget that he ever knew where they were. In any case, the storyteller says all this is fair and good. And the player (really outraged that he got killed, instead of my character), accepts defeat. Or does he? ***Here's where my question begins*** I've found out through out of character gossip that the character he's going to be bringing in now is an Illithilich. Obviously, this is a revenge character. So I need to start making preperations on how to deal with it, just in case the storyteller is slow on picking up this notion. In our game, we use magic/psionics transparency. So, psionics & magic don't work against each other (except in specialized instances where it's specified that they interact). The storyteller doesn't want another psion in the game for obvious reasons, so his character will be a magic using Illithilich. Which makes me a little more impotent against him, I think. What are the dangers I'm facing, and what are some creative ways I can deal with this? I have some justification for prepping up such skills in game, because our necromancer decided to raise a couple Illithid and play with them. It'd be pretty obvious I'd just want to be prepared in case something goes wrong with those. My character is a Psion(Telepath)10 / Thrallherder 5. I've got 3 Expanded Knowledge slots, but no psicrystal (I don't know what good they'd be to me), and my ST freely lets me use Psychic Reformation (at an exp cost) to pretty much gain access to any power I need. Trust me when I say this is about equivalent to the bonuses given to each character at start. What should I do? And in what book is the Illithilich template? Thanks for your help guys!
Kiklio 05-14-07, 04:04 PM	I know at least Lords of Madness mentions alhoons, illithid liches. It's just an illithid with the lich template applied. I don't think it needs to eat brains. The best thing you can do is rely on your cohort. Acquire a cohort that can combat ability damage, can consistently make Will saves, and can deal with the undead. You want a CLERIC. A badass bodyguard cleric decked with deflection bonuses, turning attempts, Dispel Magic slots, and resistance items. He should stand near with a throwing axe with a readied action to chuck it if this alhoon tries anything. He should utilize spells like Arcane Sight and his Spellcraft skill to detect shenanigans. Augury and Commune are great, too. You might be tempted to get an illithid slayer, but that would be obvious. You'll have a bodyguard that can dominate your threat at a moment's notice and retain enough flexibility to make all of these choices be smart for fighting other enemies. Plus, you can both get Mind Blanks up at a moment's notice. It's not like he can dispel yours. Speak softly, and carry a big cleric.
NoldorForce 05-14-07, 06:37 PM	In our game, we use magic/psionics transparency. So, psionics & magic don't work against each other (except in specialized instances where it's specified that they interact). The storyteller doesn't want another psion in the game for obvious reasons, so his character will be a magic using Illithilich. Which makes me a little more impotent against him, I think.From the way you're discussing things, this doesn't sound like magic-psionics transparency; rather, it sounds like the "magic and psionics are different" variant. Will Dispel Psionics work on magic, and vice versa? If not, then it's not transparency. On topic...what do you mean by a magic-using alhoon? Is this simply an illithid with the Undead type who happens to cast spells instead of manifesting psionics? Or is other stuff involved? The differences allow for a certain variety of power levels for your avenging enemy.
razorangel 05-15-07, 08:16 AM	Yeah, because the ST doesn't want any more psions in the game for the time being, he's opted to cast magic instead of manifest powers. I hadn't done too much looking into the psionics vs magic rules in the Unearthed Arcana, simply because I put my trust in the ST to provide accurate information on how things work, so sorry if I misstated about transparency. ;) As far as grabbing a cleric to be my aide, I'm not sure if that's an option for me. The chronicle that involved my current character had a NPC Clarasentient, who has since become incoporeal (he says its a Prestiege class?), but still retains all her psionics. Anyway, she's not overly helpful, but the ability to metaconcert at will (pretty much) I think is pretty grand. Secondly, she is always willing to excercise powers to save my life, or do anything I ask within her means, and finally, she's saved my ass from getting possessed several times. She floats around inside me, and we act as one, essentially. Anyway, having something that doesn't sleep, eat, or breathe, be able to act as a perpetual psychic guardian angel, seemed too good to be true. Not to mention, since the npc is the ST's old character (sorta) then he's attached to giving her bonuses & helping out. Which is a huge plus in certain situations. So all that said, I would unfortunately be left to hiring a cleric. Which don't really exist in the future we live in. Most people don't worship gods any more. If I were to find one, he'd probably be either really old and feeble, or very young and too low level (so says the 12 year old Lv15 character). Any other ideas?:confused:
Kiklio 05-15-07, 01:02 PM	If you have to fight him personally, use Disintegrate and Telekinetic effects. You don't have to worry about SR, and he has a low Fortitude save. So non-transparency helps you out. A Split Disintegrate can hit him and the floor below him, making it a good opener. It probably won't kill him, but will almost ensure you'll get another shot, which will kill him. You can end the fight with something like Ectoplasmic Cocoon, which is nonlethal. You shouldn't kill him again. Find out what he wants and offer it to him for a price. He might just want the daggers you have, to play his old characters again. Maybe your storyteller can find some deux ex machina fix for the tension you're in. And maybe you're just jumping to conclusions about him posing a threat.
razorangel 05-15-07, 01:42 PM	Giving him his old character back isn't really an option in my mind. Truthfully, he shouldn't even be allowed in the game, as he drags the ST off constantly and disrupts our game time with "So when are we going to fight something?" or "How much exp did I get for killing this?" We're a RP heavy group, with little combat, so he's constantly creating issues. He even tried to kill my character before, by hitting him with something called Eldrich Blast or something. He succeeded 3 times in bringing me to 0 HP, but each time I just established a contingency that said, if I ever reached 0 HP, Body Adjustment would bring me back. I don't mind that so much. But the gall of him was to ask, "So how much exp do I get for kill him 3 times?" Obviously he's a terrible player. As far as using Disintegrate, something I've discovered about Undead is that they don't have Fortitude saves because they don't have Constitution. So they automatically succeed on Fortitude saves, I'm guessing, according to our ST. So my max damage to him from those rays will be pretty low. My big thoughts are: He's immune to Fortitude save powers, because of being Undead. And he's immune to most of my natural powers because Undead can't be affected by Mind-Affecting powers. The more and more I consider it, I'm just thinking of having the Soul Eater (Drinker?) just hold onto the daggers until both souls have been completely drained and devoured. Or I'll just feed them to our Necromancer's pet Devourer. I know that this will probably have an effect on my alignment, and I like being Lawful Neutral. I don't want to be an evil 12 year old boy!
Archangel_Arcanis 05-15-07, 02:16 PM	they don't automatically make fort saves, they are immune to anything that requires a fort save UNLESS it also affects objects which disintigrate does. That is why undead hate desintigrate more than any other spell out there, it targets their weakest save and has full effect on them. Since he doesn't have a con all he gets is his base fort which will probably be low. edit: so quoteth the SRD Undead Type... Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
NoldorForce 05-15-07, 02:16 PM	Undead do not auto-succeed on Fortitude saves just because they lack a Constitution score; instead, they are immune to effects that require Fortitude saves unless said effects are harmless or affect objects. (This trait derives from the lack of a Constitution score rather than directly from being undead.) He'll still use his default modifier for a nonability, which is +0. All of it is described here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities) Which means that Disintegrate (which affects objects) is fairly mean. Though giving more specifics on the nature of the challenge (as asked above) would be helpful. :) Unearthed Arcana does not mention psionics at all. The Psionics is Different variant is found somewhere in the XPH - it's apparently not in the SRD. However, this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicT ransparency) defines what magic/psionics transparency is.
razorangel 05-15-07, 02:29 PM	You ask me to talk, I'll be happy to! Okay, so I found out visa vie a phone call from a friend just now that he's definately making an Ahloon (sp?) with sorcerer powers. He'll probably be about Lv14-15. He'll probably try to subjegate me or something to get back at me at some random time, purely as revenge. I wish I could provide more specifics, however all things have yet to be seen. In my opinion, the ST shouldn't even allow him to play this, as he's already been given the chance to play a Template based character (Half-Fiend). But whatever! That's very interesting to know about the Undead & Fortitudes thing. I'll definately keep that in mind. What more are you guys looking for as far as information goes? I'll try to provide the best details I can.
Archangel_Arcanis 05-15-07, 02:46 PM	first where is Ahloon from i'm not familar with it. Once i can get a look at it I'll see what else i can suggest for you. ps. i had a similar situation in a game in which i played where a player constantly broke the rules to make their character, and the dm choose not to do anything about it, and tried to always bully the rest of the party with their lvl 16 that could kill the Tarasque with out tricks while the rest of us were lvl 7-10 (don't ask). But what we did was a few of us got together and shut them down every time they tried to force the entire group to wait on them to role play with their other character, yes 1 player multiple characters talking to each other and stopping the entire game to revolve around them. /end rant about old game.
razorangel 05-15-07, 02:55 PM	My friend who is giving me the heads up on the cheese demon says it's in the Lords of Madness book, which is one of the few I dont' have available right now.
CrimsonDeath 05-15-07, 03:53 PM	Is your DM using the normal rules for level adjustment? A base Illithid has eight racial HD and a +7 level adjustment, making it ECL 15-- basically, just as powerful a character as yours. Adding the Lich template increases the ECL by another +4, making an Alhoon, with no levels in a character class, the equivalent of a level 19 character-- theoretically much more powerful than your own character. Of course, a Lich needs at least caster level 11 to craft a phylactery. Assuming the DM lets the base Illithid racial HD stack with whatever spellcasting class he takes, that's at least an ECL 22 character-- suitable for an Epic game, but not a game in which a level 15 character should be running around. Of course, if it comes to PvP, you ought to be fine. While the Alhoon Wizard 3 described above would be ECL 22, it would only be CR 13, something you should be more than capable of handling yourself. He'll only have 11d12 HP, an average of 77 at that level. If he fails his save against a 15PP Disintegrate, that'll do 105 damage, more than enough to turn him to dust. Another thing... You said he's immune to most of your "natural powers", because they're mind-affecting. Did you intentionally choose nothing but Telepathy powers? Because a few powers from the other disciplines would probably be helpful, if not in this battle then in other situations.
NoldorForce 05-15-07, 04:00 PM	Telekinetic Thrust combined with damage boosters and a few packs of magical ammunition is a pile of awesome against singular targets. In the case of the opposing alhoon, you'll want sling bullets. As above, said opponent sounds inappropriately potent considered that his ECL is notably higher than that of the rest of the group. A more appropriate character would probably not be an alhoon. (The alhoon template literally works exactly like the normal lich template, except that it applies to illithids rather than humanoids.)
razorangel 05-15-07, 04:40 PM	I'll talk to my GM about all the things you guys are saying, thanks so much! Well, I'll have someone whisper it in his ear as to not soil my own reputation. As far as picking powers go, I chose Telepath way back when because I thought of the idea of a boy telepath forcing his will on others would be pretty fun. <Daniel> "Hey you! Come watch cartoons with me!" <Random person> "Uh... Okay." And such. I guess it's a little cheesy, but its no big deal. I have a cybernetic implant which functions to the degree of awesome, and as I stated earlier, my DM lets me use Psychic Reformation on myself at my choosing, so I swap in and out powers a lot. I swapped out some metapsionic feats I wouldn't be using in order to get 3 Expanded Knowledge feats so that I can "socket" 3 powers from outside the general Wilder/Psion & Telepath powers. Even then, I'm still slightly limited. I guess now would be a good time to ask, does "Detect Teleport" let you know who or what is teleporting within your range, or does it simply let you know that there is an incoming or outgoing teleport? Seems like this is something that should be augmentable.
Kiklio 05-15-07, 04:45 PM	Establish that Personal Mind Blank is effective against spells. You'll be able to thwart his every attempt to "subjugate" you. Plus, you have Contingency, which is a smart choice for someone who fears being attacked. A Contingent Defensive Precognition is never a bad thing. Not to mention you have a seer working for you. Detect Teleportation appears to work like Detect Magic. So, no. Divert Teleport (despite having some legacy text about quickened powers) also does not identify who is teleporting. Still, you could divert every teleport. It's an odd power, and much less useful than the Anticipate Teleport spell, printed more recently.
razorangel 05-16-07, 11:13 AM	The problem with just diverting every teleport is that a huge number of members of my party teleport in and out pretty frequently. I thought about making a psionic device which would correspond with a set of rings or something, that whenever a wearer of the rings teleports in and out, their signal will be detected, and they won't be diverted, but whenever someone teleports within range and they aren't recognized, they're instantly teleported somewhere. Like a volcano! Man, that's such a good idea. Anyway, I think I looked it up and the price was like 198,000 Gold or something. So obviously I don't think I could really make such a thing, as it would take more than a full year to create. Not to mention each ring.
crizhII 05-16-07, 12:23 PM	Establish that Personal Mind Blank is effective against spells. You'll be able to thwart his every attempt to "subjugate" you. Plus, you have Contingency, which is a smart choice for someone who fears being attacked. A Contingent Defensive Precognition is never a bad thing. Not to mention you have a seer working for you. Detect Teleportation appears to work like Detect Magic. So, no. Divert Teleport (despite having some legacy text about quickened powers) also does not identify who is teleporting. Still, you could divert every teleport. It's an odd power, and much less useful than the Anticipate Teleport spell, printed more recently. "The subject is protected from all devices, powers, and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This power protects against powers with the mind-affecting or scrying descriptors. Psionic mind blank even foils bend reality, limited wish,miracle, reality revision, and wish when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it." RAW, even in a non-transparent game, Psionic Mind Blank protects against everything that is 'Mind-affecting'.
Kiklio 05-16-07, 03:16 PM	I thought enough of his game was different from the norm that it could not be assumed that all defenses work. That's all.