Reviving the Diamond Saint [Archive] - Wizards Community

Reviving the Diamond Saint [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Katash
12-23-07, 08:10 PM This has been dead a little while but I've re jigged it a little and think it's balanced now:PRC

Diamond Saint
HD D6

Preq: Concentration (9 ranks)
Know Psi (2 ranks)
Maneuvers- 2 Maneuvers and 1 strike Including 1 Diamond mind manuvere
Manifesting- Must be able to manifest 2nd lvl powers
Feat- Instant Clarity

Class BAB Fort/Will Ref Feats/Special
1 DS1..... 1..... 0..... 2..... Psychic Recovery 1/day, Diamond Focus
2 DS2..... 2..... 0..... 3..... Psychic Mobility Stance
3 DS3..... 3..... 1..... 3.....
4 DS4..... 4..... 1..... 4..... Psychic Recovery 2/day
5 DS5..... 5..... 1..... 4.....
6 DS6..... 6..... 2..... 5..... Sumpreme Focus Stance
7 DS7..... 7..... 2..... 5.....
8 DS8..... 8..... 2..... 6...... Psychic Recovery 3/day
9 DS9..... 9..... 3..... 6.....
10 DS10.... 10.... 3..... 7..... Persistent Concentration
ML: 8/10 ML as JPM
Maneuvers: You gain manuveres and stances from either the Diamond Mind or Iron heart schools at the same rate as a JPM.

Psychic Recovery- At every given level you gain a use of the Psychic Recovery ability. As a swift action you can expend a diamond mind strike and make a concentration check to gain temporary PP equal to the check result for 1 round per Diamond Saint level, these PP do not stack with PP from other temporary scources and the concentration check to gain them is not affected by powers, spells or magic items which grant bonuses to concentration or constitution. You do, however, add your Diamond Focus Bonus to the check. You can use this ability once per encounter.

Diamond Focus- Your Mental Mastery and Diamond Mind training gives you an unwavering focus when concentrating. You add ½ your Diamond Saint class levels as a bonus on all concentration checks.

Psychic Mobility Stance- As a swift action you can forego the benefit of a diamond mind stance and assume the Psychic Mobility Stance. Whilst in this stance you can manifest any power taking a standard action or less as part of a Move action. You must succeed on a concentration check equal to 20+the powers level or 25+the powers level to manifest defensively. You are free to take a standard action before or after this move action.

Supreme Focus Stance- As a swift action you can forego the benefit of a diamond mind stance and assume the Supreme Focus Stance. Whilst in this stance you gain the benefits of the Overchannel feat.

Persistant Concentration- at 10th level you have become so proficient at concentration you can have it persist for 3 rounds after taking an action that would normally cause you to cease it. For example if you are maintaining a concentration power, such as energy wall, and take an attack action, the power will continue to function for 3 more rounds.
You cannot resume control of the power once you have ceased concentrating. The power merely continues the effect for 3 rounds, mobile powers requiring concentration to move, continue to function but simply remain in place for 3 rounds.

Sorry about the format!!

Balanced enough?
The_Mess
12-23-07, 09:50 PM Probably the wrong time of year to ask. If this forum works like most of the Internet, it will be nearly dead for the next few days.
TheKeyofE
12-24-07, 01:38 AM Is it supposed to get manifesting progression? Looking at it, you don't indicate that it does.

The reason I ask is because this is supposed to be similar to a JPM, right? And JPMs get 8/10 caster progression. Also, most of the class's special abilities are useless without manifester progression.

At first glance, the special abilities seem more powerful than the JPM's, so you might make it 6/10 or 7/10 manifesting. I could be wrong. The main thing that would make it more powerful is being able to manifest in heavy armor without ASF.

Also, why is Reflex the good save instead of Fort or Will?
Katash
12-25-07, 02:07 AM Sorry, It gets same HD, 8/10 ML as a JPM- High Ref for flavor (speed, action without hesitation- focus on Diamond Mind Discipline)

I fiqured it was balanced against JPM becuase extra PP are only temp and not set since it's a check, psychic mobility is simply like the Mobile spellcasting feat and Supreme Focus is Practised Manifester (will substitute for overchannel instead if PM is overpowered and it makes it kinda like scanners- psi harder, head starts to bleed:D ).
Anyhow they're stances so can't be used together.

This is measured against JPM's free empower, quicken, Good DR and improved caster level whien in class stances, similar mechanics but different feel.
Note, Diamond saint gets no defensive ability.

Unsure if the capstone ability is overpowered or not, most people I've put it to don't think it's any better than taking SwordSage1 at lvl 20 (which will net you 3 8th level manuvers in the right build)

Cheers.
TheKeyofE
12-25-07, 05:03 AM Sorry, It gets same HD, 8/10 ML as a JPM

*nodnod* You should probably edit your original post to indicate this. It currently has no mention of manifesting progression.
archerpwr
12-25-07, 03:41 PM As I pointed out in the other thread:

Psychic Recovery: Character level +3 ranks +5 diamond focus +con mod (should be around +5 by the end) gets you character level +7-13 temporary pp. Assuming spending a feat on practiced manifester, this will get you 1-1.5 of your strongest powers for free 1-3 battles per day. The biggest abuse I'm concerned with is vigor. This is too many power points IMHO. Cut the bonus pp by half so that it takes some work to get free manifestation of the highest power out of it.
Katash
12-25-07, 06:19 PM I fail to see how 3 uses of an ability that lets you have only 3 good manifestations is overpowered, considereing the 93 PP you lost thru the 3 (minimum) manifester levels lost in taking a Initiator Level and 2 lost in the prc. The only point of the extra PP is so that you can still have decent augmentations without running out of PP. If Psion powers frescaled the ability wounldn't be required. But they don't so it is.

Vigor ain't all it's crakced up to be. AC is better than PP and I'd always take Defensive precognition over vigor, same duration. Better to not be hit at all than soak up damage.
archerpwr
12-25-07, 06:25 PM I fail to see how 3 uses of an ability that lets you have only 3 good manifestations is overpowered, considereing the 93 PP you lost thru the 3 (minimum) manifester levels lost in taking a Initiator Level and 2 lost in the prc. The only point of the extra PP is so that you can still have decent augmentations without running out of PP. If Psion powers frescaled the ability wounldn't be required. But they don't so it is.

Vigor ain't all it's crakced up to be. AC is better than PP and I'd always take Defensive precognition over vigor, same duration. Better to not be hit at all than soak up damage.

At level 15:
3/day
Con: 14 base +4 enhancement
Ranks: 18
Class granted bonus: +5
Total concentration check: 1d20+27. Taking 10 for the ease of math, that's 37 pp 3/day. 3*37=111 pp.

I'm just saying cut down on the amount of pp granted. Something like 1/encounter getting 5+level in diamond saint pp for diamond saint level rounds as a swift action expending one diamond mind manuever would be better.
mod5000
12-26-07, 04:17 AM Psychic Mobility Stance- As a swift action you can forego the benefit of a diamond mind stance and assume the Psychic Mobility Stance. Whilst in this stance you can manifest any power taking a standard action or less as part of a Move action. You must succeed on a concentration check equal to 20+the powers level or 25+the powers level to manifest defensively. You are free to take a standard action before or after this move action.
This worries me... with Schism this allows someone to manifest 3 powers per round, which is really strong, especially at level 8-ish. I'd take 2 levels of this class and then ditch it, even if only for this ability... as well as the BAB. Egoist or Telepath 6 / Diamond Saint 4 / Illithid Slayer 10?

Supreme Focus Stance- As a swift action you can forego the benefit of a diamond mind stance and assume the Supreme Focus Stance. Whilst in this stance you gain the benefits of the Practiced Manifester feat.
I'd say take this out. There's a price to pay for entering this class, and this makes it a lot less harsh. Practiced Manifester is a good feat as-is, and giving it virtually for free is very powerful, and un-needed since people will take it on their own.
archangel_arcanis_07
01-02-08, 10:54 AM ok here are my thoughts on this so far, as i have played a modified version of the original in an overpowered game so i have a bit of perspective.

* i would also suggest changing to d8 for hp, it isn't a huge difference but it does get more attention from the players since it won't look like too much of a glass cannon.

* state that the required manuvers and stance must be diamond mind.

* i would change psi recovery to 1 round per level just to make it scalable and less abusable.

* i would drop the Iron heart maneuvers since the class is all about the mind, though i can understand wanting a second school of maneuvers.

* I would change Psi. Mobility stance to make it so that you are treated as having quicken or empower power feats even if you don't have them. Perhaps without needing to expend focus if you already have the feat.

* Supreme focus stance i think shouldn't give PM as they character will already have it. Plus you already offset the loss of ML for power points now you would be offsetting the loss to the cap of PP. Don't take the lead of Wizards of the Coast and make it pointless to stay in your base class(es) because your PrC gives you everything your base does and more.
Katash
01-02-08, 06:05 PM Okay I've nerfed Psychic recovery a little. Left practised manifester the same because i first thought overchannel would be less powerful- doing you damage for higher ML , but my game group said they'd take both to abuse.
Katash
01-03-08, 04:20 PM ok here are my thoughts on this so far, as i have played a modified version of the original in an overpowered game so i have a bit of perspective.

* i would also suggest changing to d8 for hp, it isn't a huge difference but it does get more attention from the players since it won't look like too much of a glass cannon.

* state that the required manuvers and stance must be diamond mind.

* i would change psi recovery to 1 round per level just to make it scalable and less abusable.

* i would drop the Iron heart maneuvers since the class is all about the mind, though i can understand wanting a second school of maneuvers.

* I would change Psi. Mobility stance to make it so that you are treated as having quicken or empower power feats even if you don't have them. Perhaps without needing to expend focus if you already have the feat.

* Supreme focus stance i think shouldn't give PM as they character will already have it. Plus you already offset the loss of ML for power points now you would be offsetting the loss to the cap of PP. Don't take the lead of Wizards of the Coast and make it pointless to stay in your base class(es) because your PrC gives you everything your base does and more.

Point 1- It's kinda supposed to be a glass cannon- there does have to be a drawback to being in the class, otherwise it's too powerful. D6 and no class defensive abilities make a poor defense to offset the classes offensive capabilities.

Point2 and 3 -Good idea- Done!!

Point4- Sorry, but as you said a second class is desirable. Maybe I should change the classes name so it doesn't seem quite so diamond mind focused. The reason Iron Heart is the accompanying school is because the manuvere descriptions are similarly about mental focus and skill.

Point5- I wasn't trying to create a Psychic JPM. The class so supposed to give the feel of a hit n run type melle char. Psy Mobility- is only a Psi version of the mobile spellcasting feat but it lets you have an impact whilst moving into position for a strike.

Point 6- Supreme Focus. I still feel either this or overchannel IS nessecary because consider a wiz/JPM -9th level spells and 8th manuveres. A Diamond saint even with the supreme focus stance can manifest a power at 9th level but has to be in the stance to do it, (which he isn't likely to be in- perferred stance is likely Psi Mob) and even with diamond focus and psi recovery- doesn't have the PP to Use the ability with impunity. Whatsmore, he can only augment lower level powers (which, generally only incrases save and damage)- improvements in range, no of targets etc. comes from knowing higher level powers and the diamond saint doesn't.

For the record, My gaming group has kinda gone nuts for TOB- we currently have a
Beg4/Crus1/JPM4/AbjC4/JPM6 (total10)/SS1 BAB-17, 8th lvl spls and manuveres.
Clr6/Ch Inquis3/Crus1/RKV10-BAB 17 9th level spells, 8th level manuveres

Warblade 13/ss1/Crus1/MON5- BAB17 Master 6 disciplines 9th level manuveres

Wiz1/Clr3/TN14/MT2- BAB10- Our only non melle lover but 8th level arcane and 9th level divine casting.

Plus my Psi Kin4/War2/Ghostbreaker3 (hyperconscious)/Crus1/DS9/SS1- 7th level powers known (can be aug to 9th) and 3 8th level manuveres.

Note- levels as shown above are not in sequenstial order

We started playing these char at level 12 (since they play like thier base classes before that) we are at 20. The Psi knows astral construct and metamorphosis thru research and with flaws squeezed metamorphic transfer into the build. Our whole group optimises and reqularly beats +CR baddies.

If any Char is dominant here is is either the TN who has so many spells he's rarely caught offguard (specialises in Divination and primarily uses save or dies whilst flying on the back of his Hippogriff familiar-improved familiar feat)

Or the Warblade/MON who having adaptive style and all 3 base classes has so many high level manuveres avail and never runs out.

These guys are the most dominant (just) primarily because they don't have to waste actions much. The spellcaster avoids melle and the warblade just heals either with a strike of when he recoveres manuveres.

The Clr/RKV is just happy he can heal as part of an attack- now he saves cure spells for after the fight, but he still spends time buffing.

The JPM still does primarily what a beg does but likes to do it in the thick of things (thanks to Battlecaster, Combat Casting and a Mithral Set of Fullplate Mail and Buckler)

The Psi (while similarly equipped as the JPM) still has to spend actions buffing thru Offensive, Defensive Precog, Metamorphosis before he ready to fight and while given time he can match the warblade he can't right off the bat.
*we ruled he couldn't use manuveres unless the form had a similar humaniod body, eg giant is okay, eleven headed hydra isn't*
Katash
01-06-08, 06:56 PM Build coming.
Katash
01-07-08, 12:16 AM Build: Psion (Kin) 4 /Warblade 2/GB3/Diamond Saint 9/Crus 1/SS1
Race: Kalashtar Alignment: Lawful good
Ability Scores:
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 13
INT 18
WIS 13
CHA 10
2 Flaws- ________________________________________ ________________________

Char Lvl Class BAB Fort Ref Will Feats/Special
1 Psi1 0 0 0 2 Psi Affin (Singleminded), Boost Construct, Practised Manifester, Empower Power
2 Psi2 1 0 0 3
3 Psi3 1 1 1 3 Durable Construct
4 Psi4 2 1 1 4
5 War1 3
6 GB1 4 Instant Clarity
7 GB2 5
8 DS1 6 Psychic Recovery 1/day, Diamond Focus
9 DS2 7 Metamorphic Transfer, Psychic Mobility Stance
10 DS3 8
11 DS4 9 Psychic Recovery 2/day
12 GB3 10 Continual Power
13 DS5 11
14 DS6 12 Sumpreme Focus Stance
15 Crus1 13 Martial Study- Gtr Insightful Strike
16 DS7 14
17 DS8 15 Psychic Recovery 3/day
18 DS9 16 Martial Study- Castigating Strike
19 War2 17
20 SS1 17

Lvl Strikes Boosts/Counters Stances
5 Emerald Razor, Mountain Hammer Wall of Blades Stance of Clarity
8 Iron Heart Surge
10 Mithral Tornado
13 Ruby Nightmare Blade Pearl of Black Doubt
15 White Raven Strike, Warleader’s Charge, Shieldblock, Divine Surge, Rallying Strike, Gtr Insightful Strike Leading the Charge
16 Iron Heart Endurance
18 Finishing Move, Castigating Strike
19 Adamantine Hurricane
20 Diamond Nightmare Blade, Irresistible Mountain Strike, Colossus Strike, Ancient Mountain Hammer, Diamond Defense Child of Shadow

POWERS KNOWN:
ML1- Astral Construct (research), Crystal Shard, Entagling Ectoplasm
ML2- Offensive Precognition, Precognition Defensive
ML3- Alloyed Hide, Energy Missile
ML4- Inflict Pain, Read thoughts
ML5- Body Adj, Energy Wall
ML6- Dispel Psionics, Solicit Psicrystal
ML7- Control Body, Telekinetic Force
ML8- Energy Ball, Metamorphosis (research)
ML9- Teleport (research), Energy Current
ML10- Celestial Conduit, , Fiery Discorporation
ML11-Disintegrate
ML12- Null Psionics Field, Brutalise Wounds
ML13- Crawling Cromlech
ML14- Reddopsi, Energy Wave

By 20 you have 7th level powers (which can be augmented to 9th) enough pp (with psychic recovery) to keep close a straight manifester, can wear heavy armour , and 3 8th lvl maneuvers

Start play like any Psi, rely heavily on Astral Constructs and Energy Missile. When you take Warblade 1, use offensive Precog and Heavy armour to make you survivable in Melle. After that your powers are a mix of personal buffs to toughen you and use you Matrial Strikes, the rest of your powers are for blasting, which you do well thanks to empower.
Katash
01-07-08, 12:18 AM Man I suck at formatting:confused:
Katash
01-17-08, 12:24 AM No views?:weep: I haven't really thrown much abuse at the class (no tried to break it. Does it work? Seems to especially compared to the RKV who took extra turning twice and so can really use whatever manuvere he wants over and over.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Katash 12-23-07, 08:10 PM	This has been dead a little while but I've re jigged it a little and think it's balanced now:PRC Diamond Saint HD D6 Preq: Concentration (9 ranks) Know Psi (2 ranks) Maneuvers- 2 Maneuvers and 1 strike Including 1 Diamond mind manuvere Manifesting- Must be able to manifest 2nd lvl powers Feat- Instant Clarity Class BAB Fort/Will Ref Feats/Special 1 DS1..... 1..... 0..... 2..... Psychic Recovery 1/day, Diamond Focus 2 DS2..... 2..... 0..... 3..... Psychic Mobility Stance 3 DS3..... 3..... 1..... 3..... 4 DS4..... 4..... 1..... 4..... Psychic Recovery 2/day 5 DS5..... 5..... 1..... 4..... 6 DS6..... 6..... 2..... 5..... Sumpreme Focus Stance 7 DS7..... 7..... 2..... 5..... 8 DS8..... 8..... 2..... 6...... Psychic Recovery 3/day 9 DS9..... 9..... 3..... 6..... 10 DS10.... 10.... 3..... 7..... Persistent Concentration ML: 8/10 ML as JPM Maneuvers: You gain manuveres and stances from either the Diamond Mind or Iron heart schools at the same rate as a JPM. Psychic Recovery- At every given level you gain a use of the Psychic Recovery ability. As a swift action you can expend a diamond mind strike and make a concentration check to gain temporary PP equal to the check result for 1 round per Diamond Saint level, these PP do not stack with PP from other temporary scources and the concentration check to gain them is not affected by powers, spells or magic items which grant bonuses to concentration or constitution. You do, however, add your Diamond Focus Bonus to the check. You can use this ability once per encounter. Diamond Focus- Your Mental Mastery and Diamond Mind training gives you an unwavering focus when concentrating. You add ½ your Diamond Saint class levels as a bonus on all concentration checks. Psychic Mobility Stance- As a swift action you can forego the benefit of a diamond mind stance and assume the Psychic Mobility Stance. Whilst in this stance you can manifest any power taking a standard action or less as part of a Move action. You must succeed on a concentration check equal to 20+the powers level or 25+the powers level to manifest defensively. You are free to take a standard action before or after this move action. Supreme Focus Stance- As a swift action you can forego the benefit of a diamond mind stance and assume the Supreme Focus Stance. Whilst in this stance you gain the benefits of the Overchannel feat. Persistant Concentration- at 10th level you have become so proficient at concentration you can have it persist for 3 rounds after taking an action that would normally cause you to cease it. For example if you are maintaining a concentration power, such as energy wall, and take an attack action, the power will continue to function for 3 more rounds. You cannot resume control of the power once you have ceased concentrating. The power merely continues the effect for 3 rounds, mobile powers requiring concentration to move, continue to function but simply remain in place for 3 rounds. Sorry about the format!! Balanced enough?
The_Mess 12-23-07, 09:50 PM	Probably the wrong time of year to ask. If this forum works like most of the Internet, it will be nearly dead for the next few days.
TheKeyofE 12-24-07, 01:38 AM	Is it supposed to get manifesting progression? Looking at it, you don't indicate that it does. The reason I ask is because this is supposed to be similar to a JPM, right? And JPMs get 8/10 caster progression. Also, most of the class's special abilities are useless without manifester progression. At first glance, the special abilities seem more powerful than the JPM's, so you might make it 6/10 or 7/10 manifesting. I could be wrong. The main thing that would make it more powerful is being able to manifest in heavy armor without ASF. Also, why is Reflex the good save instead of Fort or Will?
Katash 12-25-07, 02:07 AM	Sorry, It gets same HD, 8/10 ML as a JPM- High Ref for flavor (speed, action without hesitation- focus on Diamond Mind Discipline) I fiqured it was balanced against JPM becuase extra PP are only temp and not set since it's a check, psychic mobility is simply like the Mobile spellcasting feat and Supreme Focus is Practised Manifester (will substitute for overchannel instead if PM is overpowered and it makes it kinda like scanners- psi harder, head starts to bleed:D ). Anyhow they're stances so can't be used together. This is measured against JPM's free empower, quicken, Good DR and improved caster level whien in class stances, similar mechanics but different feel. Note, Diamond saint gets no defensive ability. Unsure if the capstone ability is overpowered or not, most people I've put it to don't think it's any better than taking SwordSage1 at lvl 20 (which will net you 3 8th level manuvers in the right build) Cheers.
TheKeyofE 12-25-07, 05:03 AM	Sorry, It gets same HD, 8/10 ML as a JPM nodnod You should probably edit your original post to indicate this. It currently has no mention of manifesting progression.
archerpwr 12-25-07, 03:41 PM	As I pointed out in the other thread: Psychic Recovery: Character level +3 ranks +5 diamond focus +con mod (should be around +5 by the end) gets you character level +7-13 temporary pp. Assuming spending a feat on practiced manifester, this will get you 1-1.5 of your strongest powers for free 1-3 battles per day. The biggest abuse I'm concerned with is vigor. This is too many power points IMHO. Cut the bonus pp by half so that it takes some work to get free manifestation of the highest power out of it.
Katash 12-25-07, 06:19 PM	I fail to see how 3 uses of an ability that lets you have only 3 good manifestations is overpowered, considereing the 93 PP you lost thru the 3 (minimum) manifester levels lost in taking a Initiator Level and 2 lost in the prc. The only point of the extra PP is so that you can still have decent augmentations without running out of PP. If Psion powers frescaled the ability wounldn't be required. But they don't so it is. Vigor ain't all it's crakced up to be. AC is better than PP and I'd always take Defensive precognition over vigor, same duration. Better to not be hit at all than soak up damage.
archerpwr 12-25-07, 06:25 PM	I fail to see how 3 uses of an ability that lets you have only 3 good manifestations is overpowered, considereing the 93 PP you lost thru the 3 (minimum) manifester levels lost in taking a Initiator Level and 2 lost in the prc. The only point of the extra PP is so that you can still have decent augmentations without running out of PP. If Psion powers frescaled the ability wounldn't be required. But they don't so it is. Vigor ain't all it's crakced up to be. AC is better than PP and I'd always take Defensive precognition over vigor, same duration. Better to not be hit at all than soak up damage. At level 15: 3/day Con: 14 base +4 enhancement Ranks: 18 Class granted bonus: +5 Total concentration check: 1d20+27. Taking 10 for the ease of math, that's 37 pp 3/day. 3*37=111 pp. I'm just saying cut down on the amount of pp granted. Something like 1/encounter getting 5+level in diamond saint pp for diamond saint level rounds as a swift action expending one diamond mind manuever would be better.
mod5000 12-26-07, 04:17 AM	Psychic Mobility Stance- As a swift action you can forego the benefit of a diamond mind stance and assume the Psychic Mobility Stance. Whilst in this stance you can manifest any power taking a standard action or less as part of a Move action. You must succeed on a concentration check equal to 20+the powers level or 25+the powers level to manifest defensively. You are free to take a standard action before or after this move action. This worries me... with Schism this allows someone to manifest 3 powers per round, which is really strong, especially at level 8-ish. I'd take 2 levels of this class and then ditch it, even if only for this ability... as well as the BAB. Egoist or Telepath 6 / Diamond Saint 4 / Illithid Slayer 10? Supreme Focus Stance- As a swift action you can forego the benefit of a diamond mind stance and assume the Supreme Focus Stance. Whilst in this stance you gain the benefits of the Practiced Manifester feat. I'd say take this out. There's a price to pay for entering this class, and this makes it a lot less harsh. Practiced Manifester is a good feat as-is, and giving it virtually for free is very powerful, and un-needed since people will take it on their own.
archangel_arcanis_07 01-02-08, 10:54 AM	ok here are my thoughts on this so far, as i have played a modified version of the original in an overpowered game so i have a bit of perspective. * i would also suggest changing to d8 for hp, it isn't a huge difference but it does get more attention from the players since it won't look like too much of a glass cannon. * state that the required manuvers and stance must be diamond mind. * i would change psi recovery to 1 round per level just to make it scalable and less abusable. * i would drop the Iron heart maneuvers since the class is all about the mind, though i can understand wanting a second school of maneuvers. * I would change Psi. Mobility stance to make it so that you are treated as having quicken or empower power feats even if you don't have them. Perhaps without needing to expend focus if you already have the feat. * Supreme focus stance i think shouldn't give PM as they character will already have it. Plus you already offset the loss of ML for power points now you would be offsetting the loss to the cap of PP. Don't take the lead of Wizards of the Coast and make it pointless to stay in your base class(es) because your PrC gives you everything your base does and more.
Katash 01-02-08, 06:05 PM	Okay I've nerfed Psychic recovery a little. Left practised manifester the same because i first thought overchannel would be less powerful- doing you damage for higher ML , but my game group said they'd take both to abuse.
Katash 01-03-08, 04:20 PM	ok here are my thoughts on this so far, as i have played a modified version of the original in an overpowered game so i have a bit of perspective. * i would also suggest changing to d8 for hp, it isn't a huge difference but it does get more attention from the players since it won't look like too much of a glass cannon. * state that the required manuvers and stance must be diamond mind. * i would change psi recovery to 1 round per level just to make it scalable and less abusable. * i would drop the Iron heart maneuvers since the class is all about the mind, though i can understand wanting a second school of maneuvers. * I would change Psi. Mobility stance to make it so that you are treated as having quicken or empower power feats even if you don't have them. Perhaps without needing to expend focus if you already have the feat. * Supreme focus stance i think shouldn't give PM as they character will already have it. Plus you already offset the loss of ML for power points now you would be offsetting the loss to the cap of PP. Don't take the lead of Wizards of the Coast and make it pointless to stay in your base class(es) because your PrC gives you everything your base does and more. Point 1- It's kinda supposed to be a glass cannon- there does have to be a drawback to being in the class, otherwise it's too powerful. D6 and no class defensive abilities make a poor defense to offset the classes offensive capabilities. Point2 and 3 -Good idea- Done!! Point4- Sorry, but as you said a second class is desirable. Maybe I should change the classes name so it doesn't seem quite so diamond mind focused. The reason Iron Heart is the accompanying school is because the manuvere descriptions are similarly about mental focus and skill. Point5- I wasn't trying to create a Psychic JPM. The class so supposed to give the feel of a hit n run type melle char. Psy Mobility- is only a Psi version of the mobile spellcasting feat but it lets you have an impact whilst moving into position for a strike. Point 6- Supreme Focus. I still feel either this or overchannel IS nessecary because consider a wiz/JPM -9th level spells and 8th manuveres. A Diamond saint even with the supreme focus stance can manifest a power at 9th level but has to be in the stance to do it, (which he isn't likely to be in- perferred stance is likely Psi Mob) and even with diamond focus and psi recovery- doesn't have the PP to Use the ability with impunity. Whatsmore, he can only augment lower level powers (which, generally only incrases save and damage)- improvements in range, no of targets etc. comes from knowing higher level powers and the diamond saint doesn't. For the record, My gaming group has kinda gone nuts for TOB- we currently have a Beg4/Crus1/JPM4/AbjC4/JPM6 (total10)/SS1 BAB-17, 8th lvl spls and manuveres. Clr6/Ch Inquis3/Crus1/RKV10-BAB 17 9th level spells, 8th level manuveres Warblade 13/ss1/Crus1/MON5- BAB17 Master 6 disciplines 9th level manuveres Wiz1/Clr3/TN14/MT2- BAB10- Our only non melle lover but 8th level arcane and 9th level divine casting. Plus my Psi Kin4/War2/Ghostbreaker3 (hyperconscious)/Crus1/DS9/SS1- 7th level powers known (can be aug to 9th) and 3 8th level manuveres. Note- levels as shown above are not in sequenstial order We started playing these char at level 12 (since they play like thier base classes before that) we are at 20. The Psi knows astral construct and metamorphosis thru research and with flaws squeezed metamorphic transfer into the build. Our whole group optimises and reqularly beats +CR baddies. If any Char is dominant here is is either the TN who has so many spells he's rarely caught offguard (specialises in Divination and primarily uses save or dies whilst flying on the back of his Hippogriff familiar-improved familiar feat) Or the Warblade/MON who having adaptive style and all 3 base classes has so many high level manuveres avail and never runs out. These guys are the most dominant (just) primarily because they don't have to waste actions much. The spellcaster avoids melle and the warblade just heals either with a strike of when he recoveres manuveres. The Clr/RKV is just happy he can heal as part of an attack- now he saves cure spells for after the fight, but he still spends time buffing. The JPM still does primarily what a beg does but likes to do it in the thick of things (thanks to Battlecaster, Combat Casting and a Mithral Set of Fullplate Mail and Buckler) The Psi (while similarly equipped as the JPM) still has to spend actions buffing thru Offensive, Defensive Precog, Metamorphosis before he ready to fight and while given time he can match the warblade he can't right off the bat. we ruled he couldn't use manuveres unless the form had a similar humaniod body, eg giant is okay, eleven headed hydra isn't
Katash 01-06-08, 06:56 PM	Build coming.
Katash 01-07-08, 12:16 AM	Build: Psion (Kin) 4 /Warblade 2/GB3/Diamond Saint 9/Crus 1/SS1 Race: Kalashtar Alignment: Lawful good Ability Scores: STR 16 DEX 12 CON 13 INT 18 WIS 13 CHA 10 2 Flaws- ________________________________________ ________________________ Char Lvl Class BAB Fort Ref Will Feats/Special 1 Psi1 0 0 0 2 Psi Affin (Singleminded), Boost Construct, Practised Manifester, Empower Power 2 Psi2 1 0 0 3 3 Psi3 1 1 1 3 Durable Construct 4 Psi4 2 1 1 4 5 War1 3 6 GB1 4 Instant Clarity 7 GB2 5 8 DS1 6 Psychic Recovery 1/day, Diamond Focus 9 DS2 7 Metamorphic Transfer, Psychic Mobility Stance 10 DS3 8 11 DS4 9 Psychic Recovery 2/day 12 GB3 10 Continual Power 13 DS5 11 14 DS6 12 Sumpreme Focus Stance 15 Crus1 13 Martial Study- Gtr Insightful Strike 16 DS7 14 17 DS8 15 Psychic Recovery 3/day 18 DS9 16 Martial Study- Castigating Strike 19 War2 17 20 SS1 17 Lvl Strikes Boosts/Counters Stances 5 Emerald Razor, Mountain Hammer Wall of Blades Stance of Clarity 8 Iron Heart Surge 10 Mithral Tornado 13 Ruby Nightmare Blade Pearl of Black Doubt 15 White Raven Strike, Warleader’s Charge, Shieldblock, Divine Surge, Rallying Strike, Gtr Insightful Strike Leading the Charge 16 Iron Heart Endurance 18 Finishing Move, Castigating Strike 19 Adamantine Hurricane 20 Diamond Nightmare Blade, Irresistible Mountain Strike, Colossus Strike, Ancient Mountain Hammer, Diamond Defense Child of Shadow POWERS KNOWN: ML1- Astral Construct (research), Crystal Shard, Entagling Ectoplasm ML2- Offensive Precognition, Precognition Defensive ML3- Alloyed Hide, Energy Missile ML4- Inflict Pain, Read thoughts ML5- Body Adj, Energy Wall ML6- Dispel Psionics, Solicit Psicrystal ML7- Control Body, Telekinetic Force ML8- Energy Ball, Metamorphosis (research) ML9- Teleport (research), Energy Current ML10- Celestial Conduit, , Fiery Discorporation ML11-Disintegrate ML12- Null Psionics Field, Brutalise Wounds ML13- Crawling Cromlech ML14- Reddopsi, Energy Wave By 20 you have 7th level powers (which can be augmented to 9th) enough pp (with psychic recovery) to keep close a straight manifester, can wear heavy armour , and 3 8th lvl maneuvers Start play like any Psi, rely heavily on Astral Constructs and Energy Missile. When you take Warblade 1, use offensive Precog and Heavy armour to make you survivable in Melle. After that your powers are a mix of personal buffs to toughen you and use you Matrial Strikes, the rest of your powers are for blasting, which you do well thanks to empower.
Katash 01-07-08, 12:18 AM	Man I suck at formatting:confused:
Katash 01-17-08, 12:24 AM	No views?:weep: I haven't really thrown much abuse at the class (no tried to break it. Does it work? Seems to especially compared to the RKV who took extra turning twice and so can really use whatever manuvere he wants over and over.